New survivalists preparing for a world without oil

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080524/D90S5MLG0.html

Energy fears looming, new survivalists prepare

May 24, 2:12 PM (ET)

By SAMANTHA GROSS

BUSKIRK, N.Y. (AP) - A few years ago, Kathleen Breault was just another suburban grandma, driving countless hours every week, stopping for lunch at McDonald's, buying clothes at the mall, watching TV in the evenings.

That was before Breault heard an author talk about the bleak future of the world's oil supply. Now, she's preparing for the world as we know it to disappear.

***********
Convinced the planet's oil supply is dwindling and the world's economies are heading for a crash, some people around the country are moving onto homesteads, learning to live off their land, conserving fuel and, in some cases, stocking up on guns they expect to use to defend themselves and their supplies from desperate crowds of people who didn't prepare.

[Deja Q]

1. Good for them. They can shoot who they want to.

Maybe I'm unevolved, but I can't fathom having the blood of my fellow countrymen on my hands, trigger fingers, or any other body parts.

[struggle4progress]

36. Durn! An I wuz gonna ast if yew hadda recipe fer "Survivalist Stew"

Ain't gonna be much t'eat in them days cept th'Survivalists, I hears

[MercutioATC]

2. We really should have a "Preparedness" forum here at DU.

I see so many inteligent people who are completely unprepared for something as minor as a 3-day blackout (which many have experienced)...much less an extended need to live in the absence of modern services.

[NightWatcher]

3. I'd second a nomination for a "Preparedness" forum

we need to come together to exchange info and ideas.

[ensho]

51. I'd vote for a preparedness forum

DU is chock full of tutors

[fed_up_mother]

62. I'd vote for that as well

Heck, you'd be surprised how many new people in my area don't even realize they should have an extra tank of propane for their gas grill during hurricane season.

We've gone days without electricity, and it's nice to be able to make mac n' cheese for the kids on the extra burner on the grill.

[kestrel91316]

4. We'll be mocked as nutjobs. Especially me, with my (as yet unused)

supply of flannel "TP" wipies that I keep stashed in case there comes a day when I can't afford TP, or it's not available. LOL.

The bonus is that they came from a slightly torn but still good otherwise flannel sheet somebody abandoned in our laundry room, so they were free.

If the need arises, I will use them and handle just like they used to with cloth diapers - some sort of container to pre-soak them in some sort of solution I haven't bothered to research yet.......

I also have an overabundance of cornmeal stored in my pantry. Got a wild hair and bought 25 lb of the stuff a while back. It's serving me well during this current recession - lots of cornbread and polenta and cornmeal mush........

[Deja Q]

5. Is your home 100% paid for? Do you rent? What about annual taxes?

[kestrel91316]

6. I rent. This is Los Angeles, and I'm a single self-employed woman,

lucky to have a roof at all.

Yes. I pay taxes. Small businesses get reamed. VERY small businesses get quadruply reamed.

This has WHAT to do with my homemade TP, lol?

[Deja Q]

44. Well, when there's no business left, what will be the point?

With no apartment to rent, will they let you live there for free?

[MercutioATC]

7. So?? There are some who will be interested and listen.

...and that's better than them not getting any exposure to preparedness.

I don't care what "they" think of me. I'm prepared.

(on edit) I'm just stocking up on TP...washing out poo-stained rags is something I'll deal with if and when it becomes necessary :)

[enlightenment]

10. Suggestion on the cornmeal.

Or flour or oats, etc.

Freeze it to kill the mealworm larvae. They won't hurt you to eat, but it's unpleasant to open a package and find them writhing around. :(

Freeze raw wool to kill moth larvae and then store it in brown paper bags (moths don't like brown paper bags). Then learn to spin and weave!

And no, I'm not a survivalist; I just hate mealy worms and like to spin and weave!

[madeline_con]

14. What happens when the lights (freezer) go out? n/t

[MercutioATC]

18. You only have to freeze it for a week or two to kill the eggs..

...after that, you can store it in any number of ways.

[kestrel91316]

24. The cornmeal's already done time in the freezer, lol. Been there,

done that with the mealworms, lol. And food storage mites.

Oh, and there is most of a fleece in the closet still waiting for me to card and spin it. If the economy hadn't tanked I would have bought a spinning wheel rather than take forever on my drop spindle.....

[enlightenment]

35. Are you me?

Spooky . . . :) !!

Have to tell you - the drop spindle and I are not friends. I think it has something to do with my being left-handed (or at least that's my excuse). I'm terrific with my wheel, though!

I also gave in and bought a manual drum carder about ten years ago - but you know, I don't like it as well as my hand carders. It's good for a first pass, but not so much after.

[leeroysphitz]

50. Sometimes you must choose between the lesser of two weavels. n/t

[madeline_con]

13. By whom?

DU is already mocked from without, by morans.

Certain posters are mocked from within now.

I say screw 'em . If they don't like the forum, they don't have to post!

[cliffordu]

37. Cornmeal is your friend! along with some beans and rice and a little

meat from the woods around here and we're good.

[femrap]

12. I agree....there seems to be so

much to do that I can become paralyzed. It would be a great place to trade ideas. I'm beginning to think that I will have to know how to live before the days of electricity in the home, if I don't hurry up and get a home with solar panels.

I was trying to find my grandmother's hand cranked coffee grinder, but no luck so far.

[kestrel91316]

27. Antique shops often have hand coffee grinders (the large kind once

found in country stores). If all else fails, get a new one at Lehman's.
http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=7592&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=701&iSubCat=711&iProductID=7592

Everyone into preparedness should be aware of Lehman's - the nonelectric catalog that started out as suppliers for Amish folks in OH, had a big boost from Y2K, and may now get another boost from PO/GW.

[femrap]

53. Thanks...I'll check it out. nt

[Mojorabbit]

39. This is a great deal that came in my inbox today

if one has 400 bucks.
http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/emergencykit.htm
I already have a lot of the items. Wish this had been available when I started.

[femrap]

54. Thanks for the link...cool stuff.

I found this today....very encouraging to me. People are getting off the gird. Gives me a bit of hope. The 'arrangement' in Iowa sounds great...but $$$.

http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSN2526865120080526

[madeline_con]

15. We need 10 members. Here are the rules:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=206x10

I'm in. Are you?

Edited

Possible mission statement:

A forum that helps DU members share ideas on surviving without oil.


It could include something to the affect that extremist nutjobs need not post, etc.

[MercutioATC]

17. I'm in...

Mission statement shouldn't be just about oil, tho...preparedness can be for anything from a week-long blizzard to worldwide economic collapse.

[madeline_con]

21. and hurricanes....

Our aftermaths can last a while.

[liberalla]

60. You're so right. Any number of events could cause problems and

interrupt our lives. We need to consider how we can cope when energy, communications, food supply, transportation, shelter, etc. is interrupted temporarily or becomes limited/unavailable for longer periods of time.

I hope communities will work together in a collaborative manner that is essentially unfamiliar today. I'm really a fan of the bartering system too.

[Ilsa]

19. I'm in. I have some friends that

are very concerned that we'll be in survival mode for at least a spell. I'm hoping it won't have to last too long. Having skills to barter will be necessary also.

[NightWatcher]

20. I'm in. Call it Emergency Preparedness.

It could encompass everything from hurricane and or earthquake prep to getting to some subsistence living tips.

[madeline_con]

22. Absolutely.

That would be a good umbrella term for any type of preparedness one might need.

[beevul]

23. Count me in.

Not being prepared for emergencies is like not carrying a spare tire in your car, or a fire extinguisher in your house.

Being out in the middle of nowhere 30 minutes minimum from police/fire department/paramedics, I have had to give this alot of consideration already.

[Change has come]

25. I am interested

Please add my name to the list. I promise I won't be an extremist nutjob! :hi:

[madeline_con]

32. Go here...

Go here, and say you're interested. the rules say we have to have 10 in the same thread. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3340303&mesg_id=3340363

[ileus]

43. stock up on 1921 peace dollars...great idea.

[kestrel91316]

28. I'm definitely in. Emergency preparedness is important, PO or not.

[Nay]

29. Count me in. I have already started to store food, and I have all

the back issues of Mother Earth News...! Would love to trade ideas.

[mia]

30. I'm interested.

:kick:

[madeline_con]

31. Please go here...

Go here, and say you're interested. the rukles say we have to have 10 in the same thread. :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3340303&mesg_id=3340363

[trof]

41. I'm in, and read about this:

DauerWalden is a new residential development with a unique ecological purpose. That purpose is the preservation of scenic open space, longleaf pine forest, wetlands, and prime farmland on an 1146-acre family farm near the Gulf of Mexico in Baldwin County, Alabama. DauerWalden has many distinctive aspects - it is an exclusive residential community, a forest, a nature preserve, and a working farm.

DauerWalden is unique among conservation communities in the amount of land preserved by the development. No more than 25 new residences will be built on private lots. Over 1000 acres of the original farm will be permanently preserved, via conservation easements, in fields and forests. This is substantially more preserved land per residential lot than almost any other conservation community in the country.

Some residents may actively participate in farm or forest management. Other community members may simply wish to enjoy the benefits of living in a rural, forested setting. Some may commute to their urban professions. Still others may be retirees. We hope to create a diverse community on an extraordinary landscape. DauerWalden will not simply be a rural subdivision. We will be a community, living on and managing a working farm and forest, organized to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community through sustainable development.

DauerWalden will have progressive covenants, with an emphasis on aesthetics, sustainability, ecology, and energy efficiency. All homes will be EarthCraft or EnergyStar certified. Community members will have many residential options, such as building on a lake, on the edge of a large pasture, or in a woodland setting. Most of the new homes will not be visible from the road, preserving the scenic farm setting.

The scenic landscape has more than 20 miles of roads and trails which provide access to the rolling hills, streams, pine forests, and old growth wetlands. There are numerous opportunities for outdoor recreation and equestrian activities. To preserve this peaceful setting, internal combustion vehicles will not be allowed on the trail system. Access to all trails will be restricted to hiking, riding bicycles or horses, or small electric vehicles, such as golf carts.
http://www.dauerwalden.com/

[bluesmail]

49. I'm definitely in. Have already downsized my lifestyle

financially.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

38. We went about ten days without power the winter before last.

The first thing people did was purchase every generator available in the area an hoard gas.
After about the fourth day people were getting very testy at the few gas stations opened.

We were part of a group that brought hot food and beverages to a mobile home park in our area.
Many of the people living there were already spending most of their time outside around a communal bonfire.

At the very least join a seed exchange. You'll have some control over the quality of the food you eat given the worse case scenario.

[elocs]

8. The survivalist types tend to get all caught up in "the sky will fall someday" mentality.

They miss many sunny and beautiful days because they become consumed with preparing for a rainy day. If they had some degree of moderation in their frenzy theirs would be a healthy concern, but they cry "wolf" so often that people begin not to believe them even when they should. You hear things about buying land in the country (how many of us can do that in addition to our daily living expenses?) or you hear about those who will stock up on guns and weapons to protect themselves from the zombie or maurauding hords (of course they will have an endless supply of ammo). I think I will be reasonable and sensible about things and enjoy the sun while it still shines. I have an umbrella, but I don't carry it with me all the time and I'm not caught up with a fear of rain.

[MercutioATC]

9. Agreed, but (as you said) moderation is the key.

It's equally as harmful (IMO) to fail to prepare.

It doesn't have to be all-consuming. People without knowledge of preparedness tend to look at it as an all-or-nothing proposition. It's not. An extra $5/week at the grocery store can get you well on your way. It's not about building a fortress, it's about doing the best you can.

[NightWatcher]

11. not crying "wolf" in a frenzy, but "cautious pessimism" based on the world around us

I enjoy the hell out of life. I am not always in my bunker cleaning my gun either. I would just like to be a tad prepared for the possibility of an emergency where grocery stores may be empty for a couple of weeks, or power may go out for a month. I have seen the aftermath of hurricanes and know that "being prepared" is not crying wolf. After Ivan, I lived off MRE's from the govt for nearly a month as I dug out the few remaining belongings of my then in-laws. Preparedness is not a "crazy word".

[elocs]

16. "The End Of The World As We Know It" that possesses many survivalist types

goes way beyond simple and common sense preparedness. Too many are sacrificing the joy of living today for the bunker mentality of surviving something that may happen someday. There is wolf crying and the wolf is always just around the corner, or the next corner, or the next. There is nothing wrong with being reasonably prepared as any should be for a natural disaster, but I am not going to let it consume my life. I have read many whose lives revolve around all of the potential facets of survival.

[Subdivisions]

26. Aye. I was in Gulfport within a week after the storm and I can

tell you that being prepared for the worst is not only necessary but imperative. I'm a city dweller tied to high-speed internet because of my job and so I can only do so much. I have access to several "bugout" locations in locations from Texas to Wyoming to North Carolina. In the meantime, I have been filling a 300 sq ft storage unit with anything and everything I can get my hands on as well as havimg put in a terrace vegetable garden. Also, we eliminated up to 150 miles roundtrip per day from our lives and she now works 1 1/2 miles away and I work at home. I've done and do whatever I can to become more prepared for almost anything except an atom bomb or an asteroid strike.

But, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the sunny days. I'm hopeful that whatever lies ahead brings with it a better life but in the meantime I don't worry too much and being prepared for a rainy day makes the sunny ones just that much more enjoyable and alive.

[truedelphi]

40. Brazil seems perfectly content in a world that will soon run out of oil

That's because they are doing the ethanol conversion the sensible way - using the waste from the sugar cane crops to fuel everything on their roads. The cars, trucks, tractors, vans etc.

In Brazil, your wife wouldn't even have to give up her weekly 150 miles unless she wanted to.

[soothsayer]

56. the rest of the world seems smarter and more resiliant than we are. guess we don't have enough

'necessity' to mother 'invention' yet.

[truedelphi]

58. There was an OP here on DU yesterday abt some guy

Who bought a car in the 1970's that was already 15 to 20 years old and it had been refurbished to get some 300 plus miles to the gallon.

And if he hadn't bought it in the last month, the car was gonna be junked!! He is hoping that by studying the car's innards, he can figure out how that mileage was brought about.

The big automakers have no incentive to do anything abt the pitiful mileage that they dole out.

[Raster]

66. The rest of the world seems smarter because they don't have the Texas Petroleum Mafia

calling their government's shots. We, in effect, have employees of the Texas Petroleum Mafia ("TPM") sitting in the White House and the Vice President's Mansion. And the last thing the TPM wants is for the United States to be energy self-sufficient. There is no money to be made in energy self-sufficiency, at least not by the petroleum cartels. Repeatedly the TPM has used its influence to (a) influence Detroit to RESIST making energy-efficient cars; (b) halt the US government from spending the necessary funds to explore alternate energy sources; and (c) provide economic stimulus to entities pursuing alternative energy sources and energy self-sufficiency.

[drmeow]

33. Not to mention

that survivalism on the level discussed in the article is not an option for many, many people. How many people can but 7.5 acres and essentially start to farm it? How many people have enough money saved away to quit their job and survive until they get some yield out of the crops, etc?

[drmeow]

34. Peter Schilling, Lone Survivor

Designed to face the most determined weapons is a fortress made of steel
inside the airlock, even the water is recycled every year
outside the walls, the world is self destructing but this clever man lives on
for safety he rejects communication so that no one will detect his home
locked away from the danger isolated for the rest of his life
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream

the war is over but the radiaition is destroying all mankind
a new discovery by the great computer will it rescue us in time?
locked away from the danger isolated for the rest of his life
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream

around the world the people understand and are correcting their mistakes
nobody knows about the lone survivor so there can be no escape
locked away from the danger isolated for the rest of his life
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream
he's the lone survivor, in his life machine
takes his daily helpers, safe and inside his dream

[MJJP21]

42. Not an option

These people are delusional in thinking they can ignore the rest of the world and its problems by dropping out.If things get as bad as they think it will everything will break down.Jobs will be gone, the economy will be finished, basic necessites won't be shipped, medicine will not be available etc. I don't care what kind of food they are hoarding, what kind of weapons they own, what kind of home they live in , what kind of skills they are capable of it is impossible to really believe they will be immune from any really serious national or international hardships. There will always be people who will gang together to take what you have either willingly or by force. Sooner or later your supplies will run out, tools will break, electricity will vanish etc etc. It is impossible to live off the land as we once did. Someone asked if the home was paid and bought for. What about paying taxes on the property? You'll lose it unless you have a stockpile of cash.Lastly you have to assume the govt whether it be local or state or national will still honor individual property rights. I bettting they won't.

[Deja Q]

45. *ding* *ding* *ding* We have a winner! Though I wish this was only a game...

[soothsayer]

46. Dunno, there was that recent feature on that family in CA or somewhere who made themselves

rather self-sufficient (turned the whole yard into an organic garden, raise chickens, somehow make a living doing it fulltime. But yeah, clothes come from the outside (salvation army or goodwill stores) and they need to sell some veggies and eggs in order to pay taxes and stuff.

[arcadian]

48. There will always be economy

"economy" means taking care of a household. If I give my neighbor beets in exchange for a handfull of nails, that is an economic transaction. It is also possible to live a subsistence lifestyle anywhere in the world.


http://www.nyc24.org/2005/centralpark/people/wildman.html

“WILDMAN” STEVE BRILL says that he turned to foraging out of desperation.

“I was hungry and there was nothing in the cupboard,” he joked. In reality, he had been bicycling in a park when he happened upon some Greek women in black traditional dress searching among the foliage. He asked the women what they were doing, and they replied that they were picking grape leaves. Inspired, Brill followed suit, made some delicious stuffed grape leaves that afternoon, and became a dedicated gatherer of wild, edible plants.

For the past 23 years, Brill has led foraging tours in New York’s parks from early March to early December. His clientele take their pick of parks ranging from Prospect Park in Brooklyn to Inwood Hill Park in Manhattan to Leatherstocking Trail further upstate.

But Brill is perhaps best known for his popular tours of Central Park. Every other week, a dozen or so nature lovers hand over $10 each for four hours of guided foraging, during which Brill turns Central Park into one big salad bar.

[Jack_DeLeon]

61. You have some points...

Lone individuals can only do so much. No man is an island. Lone individuals are no match for more organized groups. So unless you are so far out in the wilderness that no one will every find you its better to get organized as a community or atleast get to know the people who live around you so as to band together for mutual aid or defense if it is needed.

That being said preparing as an individual is always preferable than not preparing at all.

[soothsayer]

47. I've got a neat solar cooker, and a pyromid grill that uses just 6 charcoal briquettes

or you can use sticks, dried manure, etc.---extremely efficient. The sun cooker is good for low and slow cooking/braising/roasting, and the pyromid is great for high temp cooking.

http://www.solarovens.net/

Hard to find the pyramid grill these days, but I do stumble on them from time to time on ebay or other sites. http://portalmarket.com/pyromid.html

this place might still have them http://www.bcn.net/~bradley/pyromid

[bvar22]

52. We're In !....though we don't consider ourselves "survivalists".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x5729

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x7979

Starkraven and myself are just old Hippies who are attracted to a sustainable lifestyle. We sincerely pray that "the system" does NOT collapse, and that there will be a growing market for uncontaminated organic products through local networks of Co-Op communities.

If "The System" does collapse.....well, thats going to be tough on everybody, though I would rather be here than there.

[soothsayer]

55. wow! very cool. Nice looking deer proof garden.

[alarimer]

57. If it really comes down to this, I will jump off a bridge.

Rather than try to survive some post-apocalyptic hell.

The other option is to be raped and murdered by my fellow Americans. I've read enough post-apocalyptic novels to know what the fate of most will be. Outright slavery and women, of course, will have it much worse than anyone else. Let's face it, underneath it all we are just apes with credit cards. Lord of the Flies.

[Liberal_in_LA]

59. Don't talk like that.

[Jack_DeLeon]

63. Not what I would do...

but ultimately we always have free will and its up to each individual to decide what they think is best for them.

I would rather die trying to survive as a free person so that I can be there for my family and friends. Although I would tend to agree that dying is probably preferable than a life of slavery. I think you should atleast make some modest preparations and if that day comes take out some of the bastards who would want to take your rights and property. If not successful that would alteast make it so that someone else wont have to become a victim.

[Blue_Tires]

64. i know what it means to be prepared, but

these people remind me of the y2k clowns....every few years they find a "reason" to start hoarding potable water, toilet paper, flour and ammo...

[sofa king]

65. May I recommend solar stills?

One of the things we've forgotten in the past 100 or so years is that water is deadly. That's why we all drank beer or tea, which kill bacteria in different ways during preparation.

Boiling water won't be a guarantee if there are bad chemicals about, and when things start to go south, you can expect plenty of bad chemicals, by accident and by intent. But distilling water is easy and cheap, if you already have the materials stockpiled.

Maybe you've seen Survivorman drinking his own pee using a solar still. They're simple and have no moving parts. But you're going to need something which is going to be in very high demand and very short supply: clear glass or plastic, and non-toxic sealant if you're building a box-still.

Everyone should know how to make a solar still, whether or not Petroleum Man is nearing extinction.