What if tobacco was totally ILLEGAL?

[Philosoraptor]

More and more nightclubs and restaurants are banning smoking, cigarettes, pipes and cigars, some cities, like San Francisco are attempting to make even the sale of cigarettes illegal. I wonder where it will all end?

We've been under a total ban on marijuana for many decades now, though millions still smoke it, illegal or not, what if the same laws banning pot were also applied to tobacco?

They've been telling us for decades that marijuana is so, so very bad for you, yet we can easily buy the extremely dangerous cigarettes with hundreds on unknown added chemicals. Bar owners are complaining that the smoking bans are hurting their businesses, cig smokers are complaining that they can't go out to the bars and smoke anymore, the hospitals are full of patients with tobacco related health problems, yet no one seems to be sick from smoking pot.

This national trend against cigarettes is growing, we are reminded on the cigarette packages themselves that it's very bad for you, how screwed up ARE our priorities?

What if tomorrow, ALL tobacco was banned? Would there be tobacco wars? A war on tobacco like the war on drugs? What if the government declared all tobacco smoking illegal, like they do with reefer? Would cig smokers riot? Pot smokers never have.

Would tobacco addicts start looking for illegal cigs, and go to sleazy 'dealers' for their preferred addiction? Would there be a huge black market cigarette industry? Would YOU become a criminal cigarette smoker, always looking over your shoulder for the cops, smoking your precious cigarettes behind closed doors?
Is this scenario a little too far fetched?

In Kansas City, Missouri it is totally illegal to smoke cigarettes in public places, but over the river in Kansas City, Kansas, it's just fine to light up a smoke in the bar, so far.

Are YOU a cigarette smoker feeling persecuted? Are you a POT smoker feeling oppressed? Or are you just a lucky duck who never took up either nasty habit?

What if a politician declared that marijuana should be legal and tobacco illegal? Years ago this would have been a silly question, but now, I'm not so sure.

[Jamastiene]

1. I would trade tobacco for marijuana in a heartbeat.

Fair enough.

Then I'd just buy cigarettes from whoever was selling them on the streets. :evilgrin:

[Philosoraptor]

2. What if a pound of tobacco cost $1000?

I wonder who would pay?

[depakid]

8. $11 a pack or more in Australia

Plus, they have very nasty pictures on the packs.

[Philosoraptor]

9. A far cry from the glamorous images of the old days.

As in ronnie reagan hawking Viceroys.

[depakid]

13. And the campaign has worked

Studies showed that lot of Aussies gave up smoking after these images went on the packets.

I reckon they ought to do that in America as well- less regressive than raising taxes, to be sure.

[Philosoraptor]

15. Maybe a pack of joints with a pic of a stoned grannie on the back?

WARNING! Scientific studies show that marijuana smoking causes your grandmother to smile chronically.

[depakid]

17. Now you see, I could sort of get with that!

be a nice source of revenue as well -it could buy a lot of health care.

[elocs]

3. Yes, the scenario is a little too far fetched.

About 20% of adults smoke. Most don't, but that is still a huge minority. Where I work 40% of the employees smoke because of the link with education--most of them only have a high school diploma, if that. Smokers are addicts and most would probably like to quit, but smoking has become too much a part of our society to be made illegal. Smoking by adults has been cut in half in my lifetime and let's hope it will continue to be reduced.

[LanternWaste]

4. I s'pose if cigarettes were illegal...

I s'pose if cigarettes were illegal, I'd hopefully get the wherewithal to quit the filthy habit once and for all.

[BigDaddy44]

5. They tried a variation of that during Prohibition

It didn't quite work out....

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. It is very easy to make alcohol. Much, much more difficult to make smoking tobacco

How to brew alcohol in two easy steps: 1) Add yeast to fruit juice. 2) Put mixture aside for a week. With minor changes, you can easily brew beer, wine and mead. A bit more effort and you can duplicate things like gin and scotch. Ultimately, that is why Prohibition failed: alcohol was just too easy to make.

Tobacco, on the other hand, must go through an extensive drying and curing process before it is suitable for smoking. This drying and curing requires a large capital outlay and a great deal of training and skill. Tobacco plants are spreaders, not growers; they require a large amount of space to grow to a useable size. In contrast, cannabis grows tall and can reach full maturity grown in a container, and the only processing required is to dry the leaves.

I think a ban on growing and using tobacco would be feasable.

[Mojorabbit]

26. It is not hard

My portuguese relatives in the Azores grew it in the garden, dried it and rolled their own. They were sardine fishermen. Easy peasy.

[LanternWaste]

24. I didn't postulate either way what would happen in society at large

I didn't postulate either way what would happen in society at large-- only what would happen to me...

Thanks, Cap'n Obvious.

[Winterblues]

27. Was there ever a time in America's history that only 20% drank alcohol?

I can see that prohibition wouldn't and didn't work for alcohol and it isn't working for pot but cigaretts are different. They really don't do anything for anyone other than harm and most would love to quit. I don't know any pot smokers that want to quit and can't...If cigaretts were not readily available then many youngsters would never start and as the older ones died off the problem would almost disappear..

[BigDaddy44]

6. I do have an observation

During the 1910's, it was the the then current version of Fundy nutjobs who pushed Prohibition, with the thought that they should get in everybody's business and control behavior. However, my observation is that during the current era, its supposedly progressive elements who are doing the exact same thing re: tobacco.

It doesn't make sense to me. We deride fundies for trying to tell us how to live our lives, but now many progressives are trying to do the exact same thing. Are the two ends of the political spectrum closing and meeting somehow?

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. I see it as a program of public health

I don't give a snake's fart about what you might do to yourself. Drink alcohol and get roaring drunk, huff glue, shoot up drugs, erotic auto-asphyxiation, I don't care.

BUT when your behaviors pose a threat to public health and safety, I do care. Getting drunk is one thing; getting drunk and then driving while intoxicated or starting fights or beating your significant other and/or children... that is different. Getting high is one thing; going on rampages while while, then resorting to theft in order to feed your addictiion... that is different.

Likewise tobacco. I don't care that you inhale 30 proven carcinigens and that you have a 400% higher chance of cardio-vascular disease than average or almost a 2000% higher chance of getting lung cancer. I do care that being around people who are smoking puts ME AND MY LOVED ONES at higher risk of cardio-vascular disease and lung cancer. The risk is real, and it has been proven (if you look at any study that has NOT been sponsored by the tobacco industry, that is.)

Feel free to poison yourself, and keep in mind that it is only a matter of time before children start suing parents who smoke for reckless endangerment and child abuse for poisoning them, too (or at least, lawyers on behalf of children start suing.) But don't expect me remain quiet while you poison me and mine.

[BadgerKid]

20. Agree.

I grew up around the smoky card table full of relatives. It explained my persistent ear infections as a youngster.

:thumbsup:

[riverdeep]

7. Absolutely there would be a black market.

Correction, did I say 'would', there IS a black market. Cigarettes aren't illegal, but there is a vast price difference in different parts of the world (and between states in the U.S.) due to taxes. Criminal enterprises have set up shop to buy them from cheaper places and sell them black market in the more expensive places. Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the tobacco industry appears to be working hand in hand with the criminal organizations:

The Canadian and European investigators are cooperating closely with their U.S. counterparts to build a case against the industry. The Feds have even set up a cigarette-smuggling "war room" in the U.S. Federal Building in Raleigh, N.C., which is now ground zero in the latest battle against Big Tobacco. In addition, NEWSWEEK has learned that next week the World Bank and World Health Organization plan to release the results of a three-year investigation claiming the tobacco industry has deliberately thwarted international efforts to control the tobacco trade.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/85568/output/print

In some nations, over 90% of the cigarettes the average citizen smokes is illegally smuggled. These smugglers use the same techniques other drug smugglers use, including violence.

[Philosoraptor]

10. Good point.

Anyone who's seen "Goodfellas" knows the score.

[melm00se]

12. remember when the Candian government

jacked the tax on cigarettes thru the roof? there was a huge increase in crime, most notably smuggling across the US border and thru the indian reservations that straddled the border.

Ban tobacco and expect to see the same.

IMO, Laws are not the way to go here, the better solution is to allow social pressures to limit tobacco availability to run their course:

Most independant pharmacies don't carry tobacco
Wegman's grocery store chain doesn't, ditto for Budwey's, DeCicco Family Markets, Andronico's and some ShopRites

let that work, it may take more time but in the long run it'll be a better solution than a legal banning.

[Burma Jones]

14. I would sink every dollar I had into GlaxoSmithKline stock

They make Nicorette..........

[MoeHayNow]

18. Smokers, as a rule,

find a way to smoke.
Cigarette, cigar, pipe, pot, whatever, if you're a smoker...you smoke.

[Warpy]

19. I'd never want to make it illegal.

Honestly, I've seen some of you guys clawing through orange peels and coffee grounds at 3 AM looking for a smokeable butt because you've run out and you're Jonesing. It's not a pretty sight.

I'm totally against the drug war and I sure as hell don't want to expand it.

However, cigarette smoke sets off my asthma. Having it banned indoors here has made a wonderful difference in my life. For the first time, I can go to a restaurant during regular dining hours instead of mid afternoon. I can patronize all sorts of businesses I couldn't previously enter because of that black wall of smoke beyond their front door. I could even go to one of the clubs here if I could drive at night, see a band. The whole world is now open to me, where it was closed before.

Light up outdoors and we'll get along fine. No, I'll never like the stink, but I'm a big girl and I can take it if I can breathe.

But make it illegal? No way. Prohibition never works.

[madrchsod]

21. pot growers would rejoice!

there would be more money in tobacco than pot.....

we could finally grow and smoke pot in peace

[Breeze54]

22. Wouldn't happen...the state "pushers" need the tax revenue.

They sell it legally everywhere and raise the taxes "for my health" and then "ban" it. :eyes:

What a load of BS!

[juno jones]

23. I am for the indoor bans.

It staggers me to go into a restaurant in a state that allows smoking. I cannot taste my food.

On the other hand, Mr Feb is an addict. He's tried several quitting strategies including drugs and none have worked (the drugs messed with his head, so they're right out).

There has to be a happy medium where he can get cigs and I don't have to smell them at my place of employment (restaurant).

Education is probably the best thing. Fewer kids are taking it up. My teenager loathes them. the old guard will *die* off eventually, and there will be very little smoking.

I would also hate to see cigs totally illegal because I enjoy *good* tobacco too. But I OCCASIONALLY smoke Shermans, used to OCCASIONALLY smoke Sobranie Blacks. I smoke for pleasure, not addiction. I can afford to pay more per pack, 'cause once they're gone, I'm not buying more for 9 months or more.

[Fumesucker]

25. In Europe right after WWII tobacco was in very short supply

And you saw nicotine addicts doing everything you see alcoholics, heroin addicts, meth addicts, etc doing to get their fix..

Prostitution, violent crime and so on..

Our society is severely screwed up about "drugs".. Among a lot of other things.

[Philosoraptor]

28. ..............

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I don't think there's any comparonison between the two situations. Most pot smokers would be happy

if they could buy their product at 7-11s, smoke it in the privacy of their own homes (or, ferchrissakes, when they were at bars and restaurants- so long as they were OUTSIDE)

propose the same set of rules for cigarette smoking, and smokers go apeshit.

There's a difference between saying something is illegal (and putting people in jail for having it) and telling people they can't light up absolutely wherever and whenever they want.

Tobacco should not be illegal- it should be legal, regulated, and taxed for adults. However, regulating smoking in indoor, public, enclosed spaces is perfectly legitimate from a public health standpoint.

Same goes for pot.

[pleah]

30. Then they need to legalize pot or mellow yellows!

:smoke: