Could this work or is it some kind of scam??"Run your car on water"

[lildreamer316]

Site looks like one of those that sell you stuff you can find for free... I am wondering if this is for real.

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=watertt



another site that has info:

http://www.review-best.com/water-powered-car-guides.htm

[havocmom]

1. Weeeelll, one can make hydrogen from water

So, yeah, possible. Not bright enough to explain how, but there was an episode of This Old House where a homeowner retro-fitted home with a water to hydrogen power source for night and solar for day. It was ingenious.

Most corporate fuel producers want to sell you hydrogen produced from..... oil. Not sure why we would want that.

[Th1onein]

2. This is bullshit.

The conversion of the energy into HHO costs as much in energy from gas (or more) as just running the car on gas in the first place. It's bullshit.

It's the same principle as using electricity to split the hydrogen from the water molecule and then burning the hydrogen from that. It costs as much (or more) electricity to split the water molecule as you'd use if you just used electricity in the first place.

[Richard Steele]

9. Exactly. nm

[angrycarpenter]

3. this system was debunked on mythbusters

It does indeed produce hydrogen but it is a fraction of the amount needed to run an engine.

[RC]

4. Here is a clue:

"...very little water is needed! only one quart of water provides over 1800 gallons of HHO gas which can literally last for months and significantly increase your vehicle's fuel efficiently, improve emissions quality, and save you money."


What is HHO gas? One quart of water, can last months? Just how much energy is in a quart of water?
It takes quite a bit more energy to separate out the hydrogen and oxygen then you get back when you burn it. Hydrogen and oxygen have an affinity for each other and do not like to be separated out.

If it were this easy to 'burn' water, don't you think this would be all over the place already? Like maybe for over a hundred years already?

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is, as in this case.

If they would teach critical thinking in school, cons like this would not have a chance.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

5. This idea is not a car that runs on water or on hydrogen

Supposedly, this technology has been around for more than a century and has been tried before, although never on factory-produced vehicles. The idea is that, through electroysis, water molecules are separated into hydrogen gas and oxygen and fed into the engine along with the fuel where they are mixed together and delivered into the engine through either a carburetor or fuel injectors. Hydrogen is so enormously combustible that even a tiny amount can help gasoline in the cylinders to burn more completely. It supposedly just allows a gasoline, diesel or even propane powered engine to run more efficiently. I think this technology works and there are a lot of people who will swear that their vehicles, including diesel big rigs have experiened improved gas mileage with this system, althouth it might more realistically be around 20% to 25%. My worry with this is what effect hydrogen, even in very small amounts, will have on an engine and the valves. Hydrogen burns with a lot more heat than gasoline and this is troublesome to me.

This technology creates something called Brown's gas, which is a mixture of HHO and oxygen, not pure hydrogen. It had many applications in the 19th century in industry and for lighting. It's even used today in certain welding torches according to this Wikipedia article about Brown's gas. However, it produces a lot of heat and that's what I wonder about in its application to internal combustion engines designed for gasoline or diesel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

[alfredo]

22. Here's one that uses an Aluminum Alloy

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

[madokie]

30. That is interesting

There is no telling what some of the sources of energy will be found in the next few years, sources of energy or carriers or both

[alfredo]

37. Imagine where'd we be right now if we had a president who wasn't

in service of the oil companies. We've lost our competitive edge in this segment.

[Clovis Sangrail]

6. VEry tRuth being!!!!1!

onLy $399.99 sent will secreTs Reveel

[Turbineguy]

7. Hydrogen

has a very high energy content, something on the order of 61,000 BTU per pound (gasoline is around 22,000). That's the good part.

Hydrogen also has a very high tensile strength meaning that extra high strength steel must be used for piping.

So IF you could get the energy to disassociate water for free or partially free, like solar, it might work. Oh, and make sure your insurance covers the damage an explosion will do to your neighbors' property. I would prefer not to live next door to somebody who does this sort of thing.

[coriolis]

11. A gas with tensile strength? Boy, I need to get a refund on my engineering tuition.

:eyes:

[Turbineguy]

12. It becomes a problem

in welding with hydrogen inclusions that crack welds.

[coriolis]

13. Sure, that's a problem...so is oxygen inclusion (or any gas for that matter)

I guess what you meant was that it reduces the strength of welds...it came out a little funny though, as if the gas itself had tensile strength.

[Turbineguy]

17. Yeah, after thinking about it....

it does come across a bit weird. Thanks!

[madokie]

32. yep it had me scratching my ass too

but the flux's job is to provide the shielding gases for metal as it cools back down past its critical temperature

[ThomWV]

19. None the less it is an interesting concept to contemplate

Sort of like that post a little higher up that explains how many gallons of hydrogen you can get from a single gallon of water. It poses the philosophical question, at what ratio of volume of container to amount of gas released in it do we finally say that the gas is simply not present?

[madokie]

33. If we had been searching in earnest for alternate forms of energy these last few decades

we would be in a much better position to face the future today. We've known pretty much for a fact since the early '70s that we need to be thinking about the days after fossil fuels.

[Juche]

8. I'm not sure

Although people will dismiss the idea out of hand, there are news stories of people running cars on water and having NASA and the military interested in using their technology. So I really don't know for sure what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzJZJjo9MNA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM&NR=1

Then again you can get the patent and build them yourself, but no one has mass produced it. So I'm really not sure. It also doesn't explain why China or India aren't using this technology rather than relying on fossil fuels which are becoming more and more expensive, are polluting and which are running out. Another problem is if this is a conspiracy by oil companies to block this technology, why are they only focusing on hydrogen? PHEVs, ethanol, cars run on compressed air and even hydrogen fuel cells (which use a different technology to get hydrogen than these hydrogen cars) are becoming mainstream. Why aren't these technologies being blocked? If tech that threatens the monopoly of the oil companies is being blocked why are nations all over the world building cars that run on ethanol, batteries or air which also threaten their monopoly?

If China & India start using it, or if the military starts using it, or if it is verified by a string of engineers I will believe it. But so far I haven't seen that.

We already have market ready hydrogen cars

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4563676/

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/index.php/hydrogen-cars/honda-rolling-out-fcx-hydrogen-car-in-2008/

But I don't think they can run on water (ie dump water into the tank), I think the hydrogen has to be extracted via a different route like natural gas.

[coriolis]

10. P.T. Barnum explained it many years ago.

:D

[OxQQme]

14. Seems like the real deal

12 volt. 20 amps. easily handled by most cars with an electrical system in good condition.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Smack_Booster

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

15. Thanks - there's a very active Yahoo Group of guys who are using this system

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar/

and here's the Smack Booster website, where the plans to build one of these devices are offered for free:

http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

[lildreamer316]

16. Aha!

I knew if someone was selling it, the plans had to be on here somewhere for free.
Thanks.

[ThomWV]

20. There are active Yahoos using all sorts of thing

Like a lawn chair raised by child's balloons (with a BB gun for landings), just because some Yahoo does it doesn't mean that its a good idea.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

24. That's right - but if you take the time to read the posts at that Yahoo Group

(which I just joined) you'll find thousands upon thousands of messages by people who are using this system and getting results.

[JackDragna]

18. It's basic science, folks.

Water is a very stable compound. Two hydrogens love hanging out with that oxygen. Any system that extracts the hydrogen from water will be using more energy than can be obtained from the water.

[northzax]

39. sh, this is much more fun

let's not talk about why water is the universal solvent and the most common compound on the surface of the earth. For such a stable compound, it sure seems easy to bust it open from this bit, right?

[IsItJustMe]

21. The concept is simple and it works. I remember doing it for a high school science project years ago...

When you run an electric current through water, hydrogen is released. I don't remember the exact details of my experiment, but it involved a small battery, wires, a nail, a bottle of water, and a balloon.

I ran the wire, connected to the battery, through the bottle of water, with a balloon over the top of the bottle. After a duration of time, the balloon filled up with what I assume was hydrogen.

Now, whether and how this all works in a combustion engine, or if it is safe, I have no clue. Sounds interesting.

[NNN0LHI]

25. Here is how to do the experiment at home

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/938147/build_hydrogen_generator_cell_with_household_items/

It still requires more energy to produce the energy that can be recovered from burning the hydrogen though.

In other words a gasoline engine will always be required to turn an alternator to produce the electricity to then produce the hydrogen to run the car so the original suggestion in the OP that one can operate a car on water alone is still pure bullshit.

Don

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

31. It's not a system to run a car on water alone

The water is broken down through a small electric current into tiny amounts of Brown's gas which is mixed with gasoline and which helps it combust more completely and efficiently. We're talking about very small amounts of oxyhydrogen, which are nonetheless highly combustible compared to gasoline.

[madokie]

35. the energy to make the hydrogen comes from the gas running the engine

The extra energy produced by including the hydrogen is no where near what it took to make it in the first place. Theres just no getting around that. The result would be a net loss and not a gain, sorry. It takes a lot of current to make hydrogen and it takes lots of power to make that current.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

38. I agree with you on one point

That the amount of energy it takes to create the oxyhydrogen gas is as much or more than the energy gained by igniting and burning the oxyhydrogen gas in the engine's cylinders.

But that's again where you miss the point. This is not a car that runs on 100% oxyhydrogen, or hydrogen. Brown wanted to create one, but that wouldn't work. It's not the oxyhydrogen when ignited that gives the car its boost. What gives the car that extra amount of fuel efficiency and energy that virtually everyone reports experiencing who has tried this? It comes from the gasoline. The hydrogen itself combusts and helps to push on the car's pistons, but that is not why this works. The hydrogen is improving the combustion of the gasoline with which its mixed. As everyone knows, an internal combustion engine is not 100% efficient. The addition of the oxyhydrogen is adding something similar to an internal spark plug in that cylinder, helping the gasoline to burn more completely and more cleanly. Gasoline additives to help engine performance are not new. And using hydrogen to improve the combustion of gasoline in an internal combustion engine is not new. Houseman and Cerini from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory proved it in 1975 under funding from NASA and published their results in peer reviewed journals and conference proceedings in a paper entitled "On-Board Hydrogen Generator for a Partial Hydrogen Injection Internal Combustion Engine" presentd for the Society of Automotive Engineers. They also prepared a similar paper published in the journal of the American Chemical Society. This is not a system involving so-called free energy. The extra energy that this hydrogen boost gives is found in that gasoline itself, not the hydrogen, the gasoline that otherwise would not be completely burned. Every engine flushes some of that unburned gasoline down the exhaust manifold and out the tailpipe. It's more a factor in carbureted cars than modern cars with their computers and vacuum hoses and that's why this hydrogen boost works better with carbureted cars. But again, to be clear, it's not the burning of the oxyhydrogen itself that causes the boost. You are right about the zero sum gain where hydrogen is concerned. It's the additional gasoline that is burned and not wasted that makes this system work and which provides the extra energy. The energy isn't coming from nowhere. That's a very logical, scientific, and peer reviewed concept.

[NNN0LHI]

36. Its been known to be a scam for a long time and it is fraud pure and simple

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

Brown's design

Some models of water torches mix the two gases immediately after production (vs. the torch tip) making the gas mixture more accurate. This electrolyzer design is referred to as "common-ducted", and the first was invented by William A. Rhodes in 1966. Oxyhydrogen gas produced in a common-ducted electrolyzer is commonly referred to as "Brown's gas", after Yull Brown who received a utility patent for a series cell common-ducted electrolyzer in 1977 and 1978 (the term "Brown's gas" is not used in his patents, but "a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen" is referenced). Brown's torches also used an electric arc to increase the temperature of the flame (called atomic welding):


Klein's design

HHO gas or Klein gas is an oxyhydrogen mixture made by water electrolysis, which has been trademarked Aquygen by the firm Hydrogen Technology Applications. Dennis Klein's patent states that his electrolyzer differs from Yull Brown's in that it lacks the electric arc feature. The claimed applications of HHO are practically indistinguishable from the original claims of Yull Brown. The HHO trademark is associated with an unproven state of matter called magnegases, and a discredited theory about magnecules, which is the basis for a number of fraudulent claims, and third party water-fuelled car scam attempts.

[IsItJustMe]

34. Thank you for the link. From what I remember, it was very similiar to my experiment.

[NNN0LHI]

23. I converted my car to operate from Cold Fusion last week

Man did that work out great.

Don

[yella_dawg]

26. It doesn't work with computerized engine controls

which is any car built in the last twenty years.

Other than that, it just sounds like the same gimmick that comes around every time gas gets expensive.

[niyad]

27. the bmw hydrogen car?

Future Technologies

* Overview
* Vehicle Technologies
* Efficient Dynamics

The BMW Hydrogen 7
To help protect the environment, we looked to the elements.

Our long-term EfficientDynamics strategy can be summed up with one vehicle: the BMW Hydrogen 7. As the world's first luxury performance sedan with hydrogen drive, it runs on the most plentiful element in the world and emits virtually nothing but water vapor. And because the infrastructure for refueling a hydrogen internal combustion engine is not yet complete, the V-12 engine also runs on gasoline at the push of a button, though emissions will result. But all it takes is the power of the Hydrogen 7's 12-cylinder, 260 horsepower engine to prove the capability of our EfficientDynamics. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is not available for purchase at this time, but is considered to be a milestone in bringing forward hydrogen as the sustainable fuel for individual transportation.

On a global level, hydrogen technology addresses the growing gaps in the supply of fossil fuels. More specifically, it is the only fuel that can allow for a reduction in the overall emission cycle, while meeting our energy needs in a sustainable way. Besides, not many fuels can be produced from renewable sources such as sun, wind, water and biomass.

Determined to bring the power of hydrogen to the world, our initiative goes far beyond the vehicle itself. We are already collaborating with a wide range of dedicated partners, from global fuel distributors and fuel technology companies to government agencies and environmental groups. Today in Germany, there are five liquid hydrogen refueling stations - and soon there will be two in the US. Developed with Linde AG, they are virtually as easy to use as normal gasoline pumps.

The BMW Hydrogen 7 is just another example of how we allow great ideas to live on to become Ultimate Driving

Machines®.


. . . . .
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Uniquely/FutureTechnologies/Hydrogen.aspx?enc=t0eBkkksaeOlO9zOt8gzADZCvgwlYpsTNlAXDAkk1+s=

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

29. I believe that is a pure hydrogen car

I think it has onboard both a gasoline engine and gas tank and an alternative and separate hydrogen fuel system. This is not the same thing as the Brown's gas produced by electrolysis which is not pure hydrogen, but what is called oxyhydrogen and which is used to just improve the efficient combustion of gasoline or diesel and not a completely separate car that runs entirely on hydrogen gas.

The water-from-gas system referred to by the OP has been subject to scientific scrutiny and peer review. There have been many scientific studies in fact of the use of Brown's gas from water in conjunction with a gasoline engine.

Supposedly both Ford and BMW have tried out this hydrogen-from-water injection system in prototyes. In 1974, NASA funded a study by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Caltech. Researchers John Houseman and D.J. Cerini wrote a scientific paper for the Society of Automotive Engineers entitled "On-Board Hydrogen Generator for a Partial Hydrogen Injection Internal Combustion Engine".

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=5206481

And here's an abstract of a scientific review paper on this technology published in the mid-1990s in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy Vol.19, No.7, pp. 557-572, 1994, authored by researchers in the School of Manufacturing and Mechanical Engineering of the University of Birmingham, England.

http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/milage/hydrogensup.htm

[Bozita]

28. Local newscast included a "news story" about something called The HYDRO-4000 -- video

I wonder how much the station charged the company for airing this.


http://www.wxyz.com/content/news/seenon7priority/story.aspx?content_id=fd6d657d-ca3f-401c-a0fa-8c3251688f3b

Learn About The HYDRO-4000

Last Update: 5/08 6:55 pm

The HYDRO-4000 promises to provide you with better gas mileage through the use of distilled water.

It works like a Hydrogen Cell.

WATCH ACTION NEWS COVERAGE IN THE VIDEO PLAYER ON THE RIGHT

You can learn more about the Hydro-4000 on the company's website.