1986 Kentucky Derby winner, Ferdinand: fate? Slaughterhouse.

[JanMichael]

Horrible article. I don't think I can watch racing anymore.

Twenty-two years ago, it was a striking chestnut colt named Ferdinand who claimed that victory. Ferdinand was born and raised on the lush green rolling hills of Kentucky’s famed Claiborne Farm, home to generations of blue-blood racing champions.

Ferdinand was later purchased by a Japanese businessman for breeding. Sixteen years after standing in the winner’s circle at Churchill Downs, Ferdinand was killed in a Japanese slaughterhouse, his body turned into a delicacy to please the palates of wealthy diners in five-star restaurants in France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Japan.

Ferdinand isn’t the only winning thoroughbred to meet his end in a slaughterhouse. Exceller, the horse who flew past Triple Crown winners Seattle Slew and Affirmed to win the 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup, died in a Swedish slaughterhouse in 1997.

http://news.bestfriends.org/index.cfm?page=news&mode=entry&entry=C7B0FDE8-19B9-B9D5-9D3A8DBBA531A041

[aikoaiko]

1. meat is meat.

Ferdinand had a better life than most livestock.

[BigDaddy44]

2. I agree

Are you going to turn away every time you see a cow now?

[LWolf]

13. I guess that means you'll be dining

on your dog this weekend?

That's meat, right?

Horses play a different role with humans. They are working partners. They were domesticated, not as a food source, but as transportation, to work the farm, and to help HERD the livestock.

Here's the difference: "livestock," meant for consumption, is not handled outside of basic health/maintenance routines.

Horses are handled from birth and taught to trust and to work with humans.

In the modern world, not too many people in the US depend on horses for transportation, outside of the Amish. They are still used on some farms to pull plows, still used to move cows, and compete in athletic events like racing, jumping, cutting, reining, endurance trials, etc..

They are bred, raised, and trained to work WITH people. Not to be eaten by them.

[formercia]

19. Woking the dog

Dog is a delicacy in other climes.

[bean fidhleir]

52. "Dog is a delicacy in other climes"

Yes, the ones where humans have been degraded by overpopulation. Look how they treat other humans. All life is cheapened in those places.

[Thothmes]

57. Not always true

Native Americans in the the Pacific Northwest would eat dogs.c

[bean fidhleir]

60. I'd bet money that even there it originated in overpopulation, though

The First Nations peoples of that region were gatherer-hunters/fishers, not farmers, and dogs came to live with us as hunting partners during mesolithic times if not earlier. They would have brought dogs with them when they migrated from north Asia, and I'd bet that the idea of eating a dog would have seemed a lot like cannibalism because of the importance of dogs to a successful hunt. "The gods don't like it if you knock up your sister, eat dogs, dig the latrine near the water" and so forth.

[Thothmes]

83. I attended a First Fruits festival on the Lapaway

Reservation (Nez Pierce) near Lewiston, Idaho. Dog was one of the times on the menu celebrating the return of Spring and good hunting. This was in 1968.

[bean fidhleir]

100. I don't doubt it even for an instant

But they've had about 300 years of viciously hard times, courtesy of the European invaders, to degrade and destroy any original customs (one of which was that the NP used to be coastal fishers).

[LWolf]

72. Not in this one. n/t

[aikoaiko]

22. I ate my dog years ago.

Not really, but my point is that it wouldn't matter to you if I did, I;m sure.

My other point is that I don't care if other people want to eat cow, pig, chicken, horse, goat, sheep, fish, dog, cat, guinea pig, snake, alligator, toad, slugs, or whatever.

Trying to differentiate a horse from cow because they were bred, raised and trained to work with people is just cultural bs. The captive bolt gun terrifies, hurts, kills the cow as much as the horse.

[riverdeep]

40. How about people?

Dying from natural causes of course. It's such a waste to buy a coffin and set aside land. We could just put them in the morgue's freezer and the family could sell it to the local hamburger joint.

"Al's burgers, now with more Al...and Tom, and Sheila, and..."

[aikoaiko]

86. Honestly, I wouldn't, but once they're dead it wouldn't matter to me if others did.

People have eaten people for a long time.

[LWolf]

71. It's cultural, but then, culture is not "BS."

It's also a matter of human principles and integrity.

It's not the species that matters, but character. Teaching anyone, or any species, with less power than you to trust, and then eating them, is a betrayal of that trust.

I'm less of a person if I betray that trust. It really has nothing to do with the animal involved.

Principled people with integrity don't falsely teach their prey to trust, regardless of the species of the prey, human or other.

[aikoaiko]

85. So it would be ok then if we just kept the horse terrified of people before selling it

Of course not. Listen, I get it, some people love horses like people. But they're just livestock or living property legally where minimum care and avoidance of cruelty is required. As long as that happens, people can do what they want.

[LWolf]

88. Do you get that

most of those who raise animals for FOOD do two things:

1. They do not develop a relationship with the animal, or teach it to trust them.

2. They maintain them in a stress free environment.

I don't mean factory farms, of course. That's a whole different story.

The difference between a food source and a domesticated animal that is a pet or a working partner is just that: if humans develop relationships with the animals, and teach them to trust, they aren't food.

[aikoaiko]

89. Sorry, but all livestock is domesticated.

Most livestock are taught to trust their owners that they will feed, water, and otherwise care for them as they are put to us or death.

The only difference between the horse and cow is how YOU feel about them, not the way the horse or cows feels.

[LWolf]

93. I have to conclude, from

that incredibly ignorant statement, that you don't have experience with either horses or cattle.

I do, and can attest to your error.

[aikoaiko]

94. I do,some experience, but then again, I'm sure I am not the horse empath you are.

hahahaha.

eta: I'llbow out now because its pretty clear that you arbitrarily assign cats, dogs, horses to a class of animals that can't be eaten because they trust their owners, while your cows, pigs, and birds are not (they must have trust issues). I see no reason to make such differentiation or to condemn others who do.

I don't have anything bad to say about you and your love affair with horses except where it infringes on others.

[LWolf]

97. Unless your experience

is limited to someone's favorite old dairy cow, or some kid's 4-h calf, then, you have to know that cattle are not treated like horses, taught like horses, and that the relationship between people and horses is not comparable to the relationship between a rancher and the cattle.

I AM sure that you lack empathy for other species, which indicates a general lack of empathy in your nature.

Lack of empathy, imo, is the cause of most of the world's human-made ills.

[superduperfarleft]

92. So an animal only has value if it can provide some other use to you?

You're acting like a complete hypocrite. Someone who consumes animal flesh has absolutely no grounds to criticize another person for consuming the flesh of animal which you seem to arbitrarily favor.

[LWolf]

95. All animals have value to me.

You obviously either suffer from non-existent reading comprehension, extremely limited thinking skills, or you are practicing the unprincipled use of false propaganda techniques because your point is without merit.

[superduperfarleft]

96. If they have value outside of what they can do for you, then why do you kill them and eat them? n/t

[LWolf]

98. Some of them

have value as food, obviously. Since you are being disingenuous.

I'm an omnivore. A certain amount of what I eat is going to come from animal sources.

I find it interesting to note that the closer a person is to the actual source of food, the more respect seems to be given.

Some cultures, Native American, for example, say prayers of thanks to what they kill for giving life to sustain them.

Christians thank their god, rather than the life that was sacrificed.

I can value and respect living things without forming a personal relationship with them.

It's a matter of principle and integrity not to eat those I have a relationship with.

Just like I don't eat people, I don't eat other species that I have built a relationship with. Some people have principles, and integrity. Some don't. I have more respect for the chickens that may sustain me than I do for non-principled humans.

That's the bottom line. No amount of twist and spin on your or anyone else's part diminishes that.

[superduperfarleft]

102. You certainly get defensive about it, don't you?

I'm not trying to be as confrontational as you're making me out to be, I'm just asking that maybe you consider some of the rationalizations you're making. Just something to think about.

Peace out.

[Occulus]

106. You're presenting a lot of false choices

There are plenty of people who like a good rare steak who also don't like seeing whales killed for food or for any other purpose, and they don't do anything "for" the individuals in question. Lots of people who eat pork are PETA members. And I'm also sure that there are members of that same organization who set mouse traps in the winter.

As for me, the only value cattle have is as a source of food and materials like leather. They certainly aren't culturally kept as pets, at least in this country (are you going to go cuddle with Bessie?). To go back to my first example, whales aren't kept as pets; they are wild animals occasionally, in small numbers, kept in zoos.

There's no dichotomy or contradiction involved. It does, however, sound as though you want there to be one.

[LWolf]

107. It's not defensive, or confrontational.

Better qualified as frustrated.

I find the human disconnect from the web of life on the planet to be appalling. To assume that our species is the only species who forms relationships, who trusts, is arrogant and WRONG, to say the least. To assume that we are the only species who "count" is arrogant and ignorant.

To ignore the way the cycles of life perpetuate themselves, not just in reproduction but in sustaining life, and to ignore our place in that scheme of things, is to embrace ignorance and denial.

To excuse a violation of trust on our part because the victims aren't people, and therefore aren't as worthy as we are, is hypocrisy.

To not see the connection between consistent application of values like empathy and respect is ignorance.

I find the whole gamut of attitudes about the rest of the living world to be frustrating, to say the least.

I'm going out to spend the day with my horses. They are more trustworthy, and more sensible, than too many people.

[superduperfarleft]

109. I agree with you 100% on all those points.

Which is why I don't eat animals.

[Patchuli]

39. So true! Thanks for that!!! nt

[demodonkey]

99. I hear that kitty-cats are tasty, too. Eat your own pet first before you tell me to eat mine.

:grr:

[LWolf]

105. I wouldn't eat my pet.

For the same reasons I won't eat my horses, who are family members just like my cat and my dog.

Thanks for making my point.

[slackmaster]

21. Yes, and horses like the rest of us are made out of meat

I love this video adaptation of Terry Bisson's wonderful short story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE

[aikoaiko]

24. we're all food to someone or something.

[KoKo]

69. I'm waiting for when our "Super Jocks" go to the slaughter house in their late years and are served

up for the $1,000 a plate top wealthiest of the Global King Pins! Sushi?

[Fox Mulder]

73. If meat is meat, then...

why don't you slaughter your pet and eat it this weekend?

After all, it is meat.

:eyes:

[aikoaiko]

84. That's the best you can do. I don't have pets.

[Fox Mulder]

103. I can do better...

but I'm not going to waste my time.

[robcon]

3. Humans are omnivores. We can eat meat if we want.

Nothing wrong with this, IMO.

[marylanddem]

4. Very sad. Animals have souls. Some humans appear not to.

[JanMichael]

5. Weird when you really put thought into that, isn't it. We are supposed

to be the only animals with enough imagination to create religions---and think of an afterlife. We are supposed to be compassionate. We want animals to entertain us, feed us, be our good doggies, kitties, horses, etc....

But, we can't even be nice to them after they have earned hundreds of thousands of dollars just to please some people.

We can't even be bothered to care about the fear they feel going to the slaughterhouses, or how they feel getting killed so we can wear their skins--just as long as we get what we want "right now."

And here's the really horrifying part: people on this thread will argue that attitude is "normal," because we are supposed to be omnivores. Then they'll make fun of animals rights groups and talk about wanting a steak---

Some will say, "oh I care more about people," as if compassion is a limited resource and must be doled out accordingly.

Really, it's bizarre.

[Systematic Chaos]

7. You know, it's too damn bad you can't recommend replies to threads.

Your response is one of the best things I've read on this site in weeks.

[JanMichael]

8. Thanks. I do think it's just weird. I see posters on DU that I have liked

for years. Always thought, "man...they sound so nice...." and then read about tasty steaks, don't care about how food gets to the table...etc. You know the ones I mean, I am sure.

I can't square that off in my mind, except to think that our society has become so ugly over so many years, that slaughterhouse conditions just seem normal now, and all American. I can't tell you that I think the meat-eating smart alecks that will surely respond to this thread are "bad people." I think it's just societally ingrained cruelty.

We need to start questioning the entire American "way of life," in my opinion. How do we stop cruelty on all levels,(people and animals) how do we start caring about the environment?

[G_j]

10. agreed

There is no denying that cruelty has been accepted as an "unfortunate" factor in our" lifestyle."
Unfortunately, that cruelty becomes part of our collective soul,

[LWolf]

17. That's exactly it:

our collective soul is poisoned by the lack of empathy and community in our culture.

:(

I believe this is why I tend to crave isolation, time alone away from human structures and systems, more than anything else.

My favorite way to spend the day is to take my horse and my dog and wander the ridges where I'm guaranteed not to see or hear another human or human dwelling.

[G_j]

23. just back back from

a long walk with the dog in the in the woods!
:hi:

:hug:

[LWolf]

78. That's the way I meditate,

although I usually have my horse as well as the dog along with me. I don't seem to be able to release the tension and just BE until I get out away from human contact, structures, and noise.

:hi:

:hug:

[Krakowiak]

51. I share this feeling....

thanks for posting.

[LWolf]

79. You're welcome, of course.

:hi:

[robcon]

14. Your religious feelings have no affect on my behavior.

Your feeling that some (or is it all?) animals have "souls" is a nice thought, but is an unsupportable, unprovable hypothesis. I'm not sure what "soul" means in this context, but you have the right to believe whatever you want.

But please do not try to peddle your nonsense on me. People can eat what they want, animal or vegetable. Animals can eat what they want - whether it's lions eating gazelles, or snakes eating mice, or elephants eating leaves.

[JanMichael]

18. I know you weren't replying to me, because I wrote nothing about

religious beliefs other than it is widely believed that humans are the only animals that think about the afterlife, and created religion.

However, I am going to respond to your post.

Wild carnivores "eating whatever they want" have absolutely nothing to do with the way humans treat companion animals, entertainment animals, or livestock.

We (wife and I) have never advocated that everyone become a vegetarian. In fact, we aren't so sure that's a healthy lifestyle choice for everyone. However, we do believe that we have a moral obligation to try to end unnecessary suffering for people and animals---really, is that such a bad thing? Wouldn't you feel better if you could look at your plate and know for a fact that you weren't participating in societal cruelty?

[robcon]

62. I was indeed responding to your religious feelings about animals.

A "soul" is a religious construct, i.e., it is without any basis in observable reality, but based on a belief system - a faith - that such a construct actually exists without the benefit of scientific data. There's nothing wrong with your religious beliefs, but I don't think they are very persuasive to those who don't share your faith.

[JanMichael]

65. Then you'll have to show me a post where I made that claim

another poster wrote "animals have souls."

Not me.

I didn't state ANY religious beliefs on this thread....

Atheist.

[robcon]

82. sorry, my post was misdirected.

n/t

[femrap]

36. And don't peddle your

self-centered, master of the universe crap to us...

Go spew your unfeeling, lack of empathy somewhere else...why bother those of us who see Nature more benevolently than you?

[robcon]

61. I think you have no mirror in your house, femrap

I am the one who said nature should take its course. YOU are the one who believes some humans should decide what other humans eat.

Butt out.

[femrap]

66. And nature will take its course....you'll piss off someone

bigger and meaner than you...and BOOM! Survival of the fittest, right?

Oh...horses are fairly large animals...if I were you, I'd stay away from them...Karma has a funny way of working things out.

Hey...you could eat shit and live!

[riverdeep]

41. Actually, people can't eat what they want.

One example, endangered species. Animals can try eating certain things, like a rancher's stock, but they won't last long.

[LWolf]

15. How we treat those with less power

is what defines our character, imo.

It doesn't matter the species. A compassionate, caring, trustworthy person will not violate trust with a non-human either.

I'm willing to predict that all those proclaiming "meat is meat," etc., haven't spent much, or any, time with a horse.

Those that work with them every day wouldn't eat them.

When I go out to the barn or pasture, my horses call to me. Not just at feeding time, lol, but anytime they see me out there. They are greeting me as a herd member.

I'm expecting a new foal in a few weeks. I took the mare a short distance away to be bred last year, and left her there for 2 weeks. I stopped by every day on the way home from work to check in with her, even though they had her in a large grassy enclosure; perpetual grazing is horse heaven, lol. The stud owners told me something interesting. They said that the mare is subtly different with me than with them. She exhibited signs of tension when they handled her. She is, according to them, much softer and more relaxed with me. They said, "That's how we know you're a good horsewoman."

Her last foal, 7 years ago, used to nap in my lap in the pasture. She still would if I let her, lol, but 1,000 lbs of hoof, bone, and muscle is too much for my lap. She comes when I call, and will follow me trustingly into any situation I ask her to.

[BigDaddy44]

53. How far are you carrying that?

And where do you draw the line? Seriously, i'd like to know.

Horses? Dogs? Cats? Chickens? Rabbits? Rats? Mice? Roaches? Ants? Mosquitoes?

[LWolf]

77. Seriously, this far:

I will never knowingly harm, or cause pain, to another living thing without a good reason. A good reason includes self-defense and survival, which also means food. It does not mean "delicacies," or "gourmet cuisine."

So, if I must kill to eat, I will do so as humanely as possible, with respect, and with thanks. I'll show respect by making sure the life is not wasted.

I haven't killed much myself. Chickens and fish. I haven't fished for many years now, but I kill a few cockerels for the freezer each year. I do so by picking them up off the roost in the dark, when they are quiet. In the daylight, they will run, squawk, and panic when someone tries to catch them. As potential food, they haven't been taught to trust people. In the dark, they will stay quiet and relaxed. One quick cut with a sharp knife and it's done, before they had a chance to fear.

Here's something that I can tell you about people who raise their own meat, instead of getting it in packages at a grocery store: they will automatically make the butchering as stress free for the animal as possible. Stress negatively affects the quality of the meat.

I will kill rats and mice, flies, cockroaches, and mosquitoes, because they pose a health threat. Ants? I ignore most ants, or use ant barriers to keep them out of key spots. Fire ants and harvester ants, though, I will try, (unsuccessfully to date,) to kill. They are aggressive and their bites are highly painful. I've had a single bite swell into a massive, excruciatingly painful welt that lasted for a week at a time.

I don't kill spiders. I do relocate them when I find them in the house. Spiders are beneficial partners, preying on those flies.

I don't kill snakes, although I will relocate them, or get someone to relocate them if they are poisonous. I've had to relocate several of them that found their way into the house over the years; king snakes and gopher snakes. I always relocate them to the garden, hoping they'll stay close enough to keep the gopher population down.

Gophers? I don't kill them, although I throw a party for the cat if she does. I do put underground barriers around garden beds to keep them from decimating whatever I'm growing.

The last place I lived before this one, I had wasps nesting in the eaves of my house. I left them alone. They never bothered me. Bees are welcome.

Horses? Never. They've been family members all my life. The same with my dogs and cats. Frankly, I respect many animals more than many people. Animals are honest. There's no pretense.

Rabbits? I've never killed a rabbit. I have a population explosion of rabbits on the place right now. They aren't hurting anything though; why would I harm them?

FWIW, I also don't keep exotic pets. I enjoy birds, but prefer to watch them in the wild than keep them caged. I don't like caging anything. I enjoy watching snakes, lizards, and most living things in their natural habitat. I share my life with my dog, who is a devoted companion, my cat, who helps keep the mice and rat and gopher (and sometimes rabbit) population under control, and who is also a stress-reducing companion. With my horses, who are recreational partners, carrying me much farther away from human structures and activity than I could ever hike by myself.

They are also companions. Just sitting in the barn, or outside the barn under a tree, listening to them peacefully munching hay on a nice evening, is therapeutic. If I've had a really bad day, I'll stand with them, throw my arms and head over their back, and just let their breathing, warmth, and accepting presence wash the bad stuff out of my system. Horses are great meditation partners.

Domestic animals are partners, and part of the family. I don't eat my family or friends, lol.

I WILL euthanize them when necessary. It's part of loving care and respect to humanely, without stress, end a life when the animal is suffering with no chance of recovery. I wish we could do that for our human loved ones.

Does that clarify things for you?

[aikoaiko]

87. Do those birds "trust" you at all? Did you raise them to count on you to take care of them?

Its nice to see how you bend your own principles out of convenience.

[LWolf]

90. My hens, and my senior rooster,

trust me enough to come for food. I don't kill them, or eat them. They do not trust me enough to allow me to handle them. I don't attempt to develop that kind of relationship with any of them them. If I need to catch them, which happens if I have too many and am sending some on to other people who want laying hens, I pull them off the roost in their sleep, just like the cockerels. My hens die of old age.

If you are particularly interested in chickens, I suggest the PBS DVD "The Natural History of the Chicken." It's informative, thought-provoking, and entertaining. It explores a wide variety of ways that people relate to chickens, from the exploitative and abusive, to the practical, respectful, and ludicrous.

It also explores the subject of principles and integrity when it comes to chickens. It might help you broaden your understanding.

[femrap]

34. Thank you...

The older I get, the more I dislike humans and the more I love animals.

[madrchsod]

6. 16 year old horse meat...yuck.

some people have no respect for horses

[TZ]

9. This is not true for all racehorses

I spent a summer riding a happily retired 17 year thoroughbred who raced 20 times and won ONE race in his entire life.
Alot of people adopt retired racers and do things with them like trail riding, show jumping,pleasure riding, helping disabled people with special programs.
But you tend only to hear about the bad stuff. MSM does not report on the nice stories.
Like every industry there are insensitive assholes.

[JanMichael]

11. Task force

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/feb/26/0226_horses/

I agree--and there are a good many people who are very concerned about this issue.

What was so horrifying to me about that article was the way the horses were shipped and killed--and I think it's important for people to realize the bad side of this entertainment.

I think the MSM focuses more upon the good outcomes-- The article I posted is from a large animal rescue organization; not MSM.

[Duppers]

80. the US does not take data on this issue

as the UK does. There, 70% of race horses end up in a packing house.

Ck "A little info" in this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3295497#3296688

I think assholes are the rule, not the exception.

[lame54]

12. Boxer from animal farm

[Wednesdays]

16. Some people have weird tastes

Ferdinand was killed in a Japanese slaughterhouse, his body turned into a delicacy to please the palates of wealthy diners in five-star restaurants in France, Italy, Belgium, Holland and Japan.

A delicacy?? I'd rather think having people eat meat from an old racehorse to be some sort of punishment!

:shrug:

[Retrograde]

37. don't knock it til you've tried it

I had horsemeat once in France: it was very good, lean and a little sweeter than beef. But there's a big cultural prejudice against eating horses in many places that doesn't apply to cows or sheep.

Just raise and slaughter them humanely, which should apply to any animal we eat.

[Wednesdays]

45. I was focusing more on the "old" part of the statement

I'd think that meat from a 25-year-old would be far tougher than that of a colt. :shrug:

[OmahaBlueDog]

20. Why is equine slaughter somehow worse than cattle, swine, or sheep?

They're not pets.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

28. Uh, yes they are.

When I lived in Springfield, Il. I would go to the Killer Auctions, buy one or two horsed at a time, rehabilitate them as trail horses. Those horses destined for the glue factory would go on to give their owners years of pleasure on the trail.

Slaughter houses have been outlawed in the US in the last few years which has created a new problem. Many horses owned by people with good intentions are being underfed, starved due to high feed and hay prices.

Left without the option of selling their horses to slaughter houses, Animal Control Agencies are investigating more and more of these situations.

[bean fidhleir]

54. Because for 10,000 years or more they have been COMPANIONS

There is only a small number of non-human species that will reliably provide companionship to humans if companionably treated. Horses are one of the three we've elected to live with in that role, the other two being cats and dogs.

Treating them as food is a betrayal that, while legal, is as unethical as any other betrayal. The fact that some people DO betray horses, cats, and dogs that way doesn't legitimize it - I think even a finger-in-the-wind study would show that the kind of human who betrays non-humans will happily betray other humans, too, if the price is right.

[OmahaBlueDog]

67. I don't completely agree

Horses have, in some cases been companion animals and in some cases have been work animals. Horses were slaughtered for meat in this country until fairly recently and are still slaughtered for meat in Mexico, Canada, and Europe.

People keep swine as companion animals (they're as intelligent and trainable as canines). Do you suggest we stop slaughtering pigs because some choose to keep them as pets?

[hulklogan]

25. Humans exploit animals in every way they possibly can

From forcing pets to wear dresses to using them for hard labor to killing and eating them. I don't feel any more remorse for this particular horse than I do for the ten horses down the road who are left outside all the time in a field that is far too small for so many animals.

Unless a person is 100% vegan and doesn't have any pets, I don't think she or he has the moral standing to be upset about the treatment of one particular animal.

[JanMichael]

27. We are vegetarians, who know exactly where our eggs and milk

come from (farm down the road).

I fail to see how a well treated companion animal who clearly is happy and enjoys our company (Scout and Stinky in this case) is a form of "cruelty."

on edit: we aren't concerned just with the fate of "one particular animal."

Meat eaters should actually be more concerned with this issue, imo.

[hulklogan]

30. I'm not suggesting that keeping a pet is cruelty, but it is exploitation.

And eating eggs and milk is exploitation of animals as well. One horse, no matter how distinguished it was, doesn't deserve special recognition for being slaughtered when there are hundreds of thousands of animals slaughtered every day.

[JanMichael]

31. agreed. But that one horse

can bring attention to the whole sorry affair of the way animals are treated.

I was reading this thread, and a couple of others this morning---it's sad--but, there really isn't a way to completely opt out of American cruelty. We don't want to go to jail, so we pay our taxes correctly--which supports the military--etc. You know what I mean. It's just horrible. I think we need to re-think the entire American way of life at this point. The whole thing is so damned ugly.

[riverdeep]

42. Ever heard the expression

one person harmed is a tragedy, a thousand people harmed is a statistic? The point is people relate to a personal story that is meant to give understanding to a wider situation.

And really, you can justify any lack of action by claiming there is always something else more important.

[hulklogan]

50. But is there a wider story here? It isn't like there is an overwhelming campaign

to slaughter famous race horses for human consumption. The only reason this is even a story is because of this year's Kentucky Derby.

It is all part of the media's attempt to confuzzle us by focusing on stories that are irrelevant instead of things that actually matter. I'm not diminishing people's work to stop the slaughter of race horses, but I am a bit cynical about this story being news this week when it wasn't important enough to talk about two weeks ago and won't be important enough to talk about two weeks from now.

[bean fidhleir]

55. I'd suggest that supporting a non-human companion is symbiosis, not exploitation

Exploitation implies a one-way service, whereas those who support non-human companions provide services in return for the companionship.

[hulklogan]

58. Keeping a bird in a cage is not symbiosis but exploitation

and I would argue that keeping a dog just because it makes you happy is also exploitation. As long as it is the humans choosing and purchasing and confining the animals, it is not true symbiosis. If you feed a stray cat just because you want to see it get fed and you don't care whether it comes when you call it or allows you to pet it, then I suppose that could be seen as symbiosis.

[bean fidhleir]

59. Perhaps you should check the definition of symbiosis?

It means, in essence, mutual exploitation. A tapeworm exploits--the host not only doesn't benefit, but is harmed. In contrast, the intestinal fauna that digest our food for us are living in symbiosis: they eat, and we benefit. The bird and the rhino live in symbiosis: each benefits, though they benefit differently.

The bird is fed by us, and we are charmed by its singing. Each benefits.

[hulklogan]

64. The difference is, we don't capture our intestinal fauna and the rhino doesn't go shopping

for the bird.

I have no problem with pet lovers, really. But I do have a problem with pretending that there is no exploitative relationship going on and that pets are incredibly happy to be in cages and pens and put in a crate at night.

[alfredo]

26. In our state we've outlawed selling horses to slaughterhouses.

Most states have. Right now the law is working against horses. Last year's drought and bush's recession has caused problems for horse owners. The horse owner can't do what cattle farmers do in tight times: selling his cattle for slaughter. There should be an amendment to the slaughter bills to allow for culling to protect the rest of the stock in times of drought and recession.

[FlaGranny]

29. You know, I am torn about

this issue, but adding up the years, this horse was 25 years old? That's a long life for a horse and at that stage they start to become arthritic, debilitated, and in constant pain. We always put down our beloved pets when they no longer have any quality of life and are suffering. Geez, the very thought makes me cry - I have a 12-year-old dog and I know what's coming.

I can see both sides of this story, but I'm still a meat eater.

[KoKo]

70. They could eat your dog or you when you become old and arthritica and in pain. Why not?

you might be tastie to those who might enjoy paying top dollar for a little "human flesh" as a lark..

[Big Blue Marble]

81. If the animal's suffering was the issue,

the appropriate thing to do was to euthanize painlessly not increase its suffering in
the horrible environment of the slaughterhouse.

[femrap]

32. I gave up horse racing as well.....

May the wealthy who harm these beauties feel Karma in a way that is unimaginable to them.

[JanMichael]

35. My wife used to love Derby Day. Loved it. Thought those horses

were so neat--

The myth of the well trained, taken care of horses, that are retired to beautiful pastures---jesus, why did we believe that shit? We aren't stupid people--just that we never really thought about it for some ungodly reason.

When we became vegetarian, and started paying more attention to the way animals are treated in this country--well...hell.

We are just a mean society as a whole. A few "heartwarming" stories don't cut it anymore for us.

[riverdeep]

44. Myths.

That's pretty much how the industries that use animals survive. Look at a sausage packet. It'll say something like "so and so FARMS". With rolling pastures and happy pigs and a lake. The reality is a giant steel warehouse-like structure out in the middle of nowhere because no one wants to live near the smell, populated by illegal workers forced to stand in cutting lines for 10 hours at a time. Doing unspeakable things to the animals in their 'care'. The humans and animals both in their own agony.

This is where it comes from. But don't look too deeply into it for godsakes, after all, it's nobody's business.

[JanMichael]

47. horrifying, isn't it

I really believe that if we had a good economy, and decent health care with dental bennies, then people would care more about this issue. These days it's so goddamned hard to stop being outraged for 5 minutes...

Well, you know what I mean.

The whole US way of life is based upon myths...that are being exploded every day.

[lonestarnot]

33. When the shiney wears off and the profitability dives, eat it.

Fuckers!

[Mrs. Overall]

38. According to Wikipedia, winning racehorses are usually cremated (head, heart, legs are buried):

From Secretariat's Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_(horse)

In the fall of 1989, Secretariat was afflicted with laminitis, a painful and often incurable hoof condition. His condition failed to improve, and he was euthanized on October 4. He is buried at Claiborne Farm in Paris, Kentucky. He was given the rare honor of being buried whole; usually only the head, heart and legs of a winning race horse are buried, the rest cremated.

[riverdeep]

43. My concern is with the quality of life.

As long as the horse lives a decent quality of life, and is slaughtered humanely, which I don't know if either are the case, I don't have a problem with this. But these horses seem to spend their lives exclusively as a commodity of one sort or another.

I asked provocatively upthread if it would be okay to eat humans dying from a natural death. If meat is meat is meat. If you're being intellectually consistent, you would have to answer yes. Excluding those parts that can cause harm to the consumer, like the brain. Is it any worse than harvesting usable organs? Here, you're harvesting usable flesh. Recycling baby, recycling.

Although it might be something of shock to see grandpa on a spit.

[Initech]

46. Ewwwwww! That is fucking sick.

What a sad end too. :puke:

[Codeine]

48. Sick?

Horsemeat isn't that weird, it's just meat. All these people up in arms trying to create some kind of justification for raising a fuss over a horse while happily shoving great double handfuls of cow, chicken, and pig down their overstuffed gullets are hypocrites.

[DS1]

49. You'd have a fighting chance of winning a point if you could simply

avoid classifying people who eat meat as overstuffed gulleted doublefisted food shovelers.

[Codeine]

56. Lol! You are right, but it seemed such a nice turn of phrase.

But seriously, from a purely objective standpoint the difference between one four-legged mammalian farm animal and another is minimal. Anybody who can comfortably eat a cow while castigating others for eating a horse is confused.

[morgan2]

63. mmm

I'd love to eat a derby winner.

[HuffleClaw]

68. as much as i find this personally distasteful i can't condemn others for their culinary choices

just because i don't think i'd want to eat a horse burger.

[Fox Mulder]

74. That is just awful.

Anyone who says otherwise is an asshole.

[Larkspur]

75. These horses deserved a decent burial. Shame on the owners for turning them into human ALPO

My 26 year old horse died on April 15. He wasn't a blue-blood racing horse. Just a beautiful Appaloosa. I paid to have him buried. He's buried in the pasture where he had to be put down. He had broken his left rear ankle and could not walk on it anymore. He did that injury to himself. No one was riding him.

There is no reason why great horses like Ferdinand had to be sold to a meat market.

[gulfcoastliberal]

76. What's also sad is all the inbreeding, causing the horses to fall apart.

Gross.

[superduperfarleft]

91. I would hope that all of the people getting up in arms about this

would consider their eating habits in regards to ALL of the other animals they eat.

Billions of animals are killed every year to provide food to people (these are industry figures, do not take into account subsistence hunting, etc.). And yet because of cultural bias, we're outraged about one particular species being killed for food. What makes horses more special than cows, chickens, pigs, etc.?

And before someone comes back with the "but they worked for humans for centuries blah blah blah" line, just think about how horrible it is to provide a sentient creature a reprieve from being killed and consumed simply because they were able to provide some other use to you.

Quit eating all animals if you don't want to be a complete hypocrite with the faux indignation over racehorses or dogs or whatever animal you arbitrarily favor over others.

[leftofthedial]

101. people in many countries eat horses

why should this one's meat be wasted just because he could run fast when he was younger?

Eating horse meat has nothing to do with racing. If you don't watch horse racing anymore, make that choice because it is a cruel, elitist, exploitative "sport," not because some Japanese people ate a horse.

[thunderdog]

104. Disgusting...!!! Then again, I had some cow for dinner yesterday.

[iamthebandfanman]

108. hard to believe people eat friendly/cute animals ...

i have a pet bunny and frankly it terrifies me that anyone would want to eat one of them.

anything thats smart and can be domesticated to be your friend shouldnt be eaten.
thats my rule.

but u gotta remember, we live in a christian country where your taught 'your different from an animal! they dont have souls!'