Idaho student says teacher tossed his Mexican flag in trash

[gatorboy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/ap_on_re_us/flag_incident

TWIN FALLS, Idaho - A high school student says he may file a lawsuit against a physical education teacher who took a Mexican flag he had brought for Cinco de Mayo and put it in the garbage.

Clint Straatman denies Froylan Camelo's version of events but said he took the flag Monday because "white kids" might have hurt the 16-year-old. He said he put it in a garbage can because he had no place else to keep it.

Camelo said he was changing into gym clothes at Minico High School in Rupert when Straatman told him, "Give me the flag."

"I said, 'What's the problem?'" Camelo, speaking in Spanish, told The Times-News of Twin Falls. "He said, 'The problem is that we are in the United States and not in Mexico.' He grabbed it from me. He threw the flag in the garbage can."

[cloudbase]

1. There appears to be a bit of

overreaction on both sides. I doubt this will end well for either party.

[Chipper Chat]

2. The teacher must have OD'd on Lou Dobbs.

Let's see.........Idaho borders Canada, does it not?
How would that teacher feel if he took a summer couse in Alberta and on July 4th the Canadian instructor confiscated his ceremonial flag and tossed it in the wastebasket and spouted, "We are in Canada not the USA."
Bill O'reilly would have a field day.

[madmom]

3. He put it in the garbage can because he had no place elce to keep it? Gee I wonder if

that's where he keeps his personal belongings?

[RC]

9. Gym instructors have paperwork and desks for same.

Also there are lockers for the gym students. If this instructor were working of me, he would be looking for work if it happen again. There is no excuse for this.

[kenny blankenship]

17. If Mr. Straatman's desk was really full he should have shoved it up his own butt

but that's probably where he keeps his head.

[libodem]

4. This is the most Republican state in the nation

Our own Bill Sali, is fighting tooth and nail to keep a Mexican embassy, from being built in Boise, because he fears it will make it easier for 'illegals' to get away with whatever it is they are getting away with... What a prejudiced, Bible-brainwashed, closed-mined, intellectually challenged jerk-wad, Senator he is. There is a lot of ignorance in this state.

[zorahopkins]

5. Fabric. A Piece of Cloth.

Such a fuss over a mere piece of cloth.

It was just a piece of fabric.

No biggie.

[OnyxCollie]

6. Do you feel the same way about the US flag?

Just curious.

[zorahopkins]

8. Of Course.

I laugh -- a lot -- when I see people getting all worked up over the burning of the US flag.

It is just a PIECE OF CLOTH!

[RC]

12. Granted our flag doesn't incur much respect any more, but we still should pay respect to

the flags of other countries. Basically what this instructor did was disrespect the country of Mexico. It make no difference whether the student was a citizen or not, Cinco de Mayo is a big deal to million's of people on both sides of the Mexican/US border.

Don't disrespect what you don't know about, it could come back to bite you.

http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm

[zorahopkins]

14. No, The Teacher Threw Away A Piece Of Cloth

The teacher did not disrespect the country of Mexico.

All the teacher did was to throw away a piece of cloth.

If Mexico is disrespected by some teacher (in Idaho, for heaven sake!) throwing away a small piece of fabric, then "millions of people" need to get a life.

It's only a piece of fabric!

[Paladin]

15. In This Instance, It Wasn't "Only A Piece Of Fabric"

That "piece of fabric" you're so dismissive of was clearly used here by an educational authority figure to racially humiliate a student.

You're deliberately minimizing a serious, reprehensible incident. I wonder why that is?

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. What that teacher did IS RACIST

Sorry if you cannot and will not get it

[The Inquisitive]

20. The incident aside, you seem to selectively fail to grasp the concept of symbolism

By nature that we are communicating through the written word indicates you must have some sort of of symbolism whether or not you conciously realize it or not. All written and spoken human language is based on the phoneme. Written and spoken words symbolically represent the cognitive concepts they are meant to communicate. IE we attach meaning to these arbitrary symbols to communicate a particular message or idea. If this were not so both of our posts would have no meaning whatsoever.

Symbolic speech, as the supreme court has ruled, is by no means limited to the written and spoken word. I imagine you like all people have given or received the middle finger in your life. I would be hard pressed to believe you did not comprehend the message you intended to give, or that was received through a hand gesture that by your logic is meaningless. But to claim so would mean sign language itself is meaningless which we know of course not to be true as it is used by millions to effectively communicate cognitive concepts.

Much as sign language is not simply a series of random and meaningless gestures, a national flag is imparted with an associated collective meaning. The cloth is simply a medium by which the idea that is Mexico, or the United States can be communicated. To see the cloth, and not the symbol is to merely see the hand gestures of sign language, the gruntings of spoken language, and the strange collection of sketches of the written word. In fact I would go so far to claim that it is a form of 'illiteracy'' to fail to recognize the symbolism of a flag.

A flag is seen by most of humanity as a symbol of the nation that they are a member of, and all of the history, and culture of their nation. For many being a member of a particular nation makes up a particularly large component of their self identity. You may disagree on an ideological level with nationalism, BUT you cannot deny it's existance. Because the nation of Mexico imparts a collective meaning into their flag, to desicrate it intentionally is insulting to that which it represents, and therefore the Mexican people.

I hope this has clarified your misunderstanding.

[RedCappedBandit]

21. Actually, he disrespected the country of Mexico

He just happened to use a piece of cloth to do it.

Great, you don't respect the concept of flags. Neither do I. That isn't relevant, though.

[Richard Steele]

18. Personal property. Civil rights. Not about fabric. Duh. nm

[KamaAina]

7. You don't say!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3256529&mesg_id=3256529

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Good grief

Teachers like this shame the profession.

[ORDagnabbit]

11. I said, 'What's the problem?'" Camelo, speaking in Spanish, told The Times-News of Twin Falls

no english in Idaho schools? :)

[Diane R]

13. I believe the kid.

[Richard Steele]

19. After the Teacher's ridiculous explanation for throwing it away, how can you not? nm

[RedCappedBandit]

22. What a bunch of racist bullshit

Fuck this teacher. Nowhere else to keep it? HAH. I love how he claims he was protecting the kid from white kids who were going to hurt him for having the flag. What a god damn pathetic piece of shit.