Cosby is the real prophet, not Wright

[emilyg]

Jeremiah, you're no Jeremiah. Although Barack Obama's controversial former pastor the Rev. Jeremiah Wright puts himself at the center of a prophetic tradition of the Afro-American church, he's not much of a prophet. The prophet in the Biblical mode often tells his people what they don't want to hear. Wright only mimics the prophet in his fiery condemnations of America. When it comes to the feelings of those who employ him, he's strictly on tiptoe.

Around the time Wright was fluffing his feathers before the national media, a genuine prophet appeared in Newark, N.J., to deliver a tough look-in-the-mirror message to fellow African-Americans. The visionary was entertainer Bill Cosby, and his theme encapsulated in the title of a book he wrote with Harvard professor of psychiatry Alvin Poussaint: "Come on, People! On the Path From Victims to Victors."

For his candor, Cosby has been tarred by black and white intellectuals as "blaming the victim." He's been accused of worse things, but that's the lot of the prophet. "A prophet is despised in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kin," Jesus says in the Book of Mark.

The biblical Jeremiah launched

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/cosby_is_the_real_prophet_not.html

[Larkspur]

1. Rev. Wright is right about blowback for America's bad foreign policies

Of course Rev. Wright was quoting a former ambassador when talking about blowback.

[countryjake]

2. Have you seen this interview/discussion...?

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/profile.html

[emilyg]

4. I have.

[countryjake]

127. And yet you still prefer a hack like Harrop's opinion of Rev. Wright...

over the substance which was revealed in that Moyers' discussion?

Do you also agree with her published stance on NAFTA and the general plight of working people in this country (which is basically tough noogies, what's done is done)? I read her columns regularly in my Seattle paper and the flat-out arrogance of the woman never fails to astound me. Writers such as her contribute substantially to the reasons that the word "liberal" has achieved dirty-word status.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Amazing! Anyone who says what white folks like to hear is a prophet!

I don't think anybody could have predicted that white folks would feel that way.

[emilyg]

5. Did you stop

and think that maybe Cosby and Pouissant are right?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. I stopped to realize they're fucking nuts.

And reciting bullshit white supremacist rhetoric.

You?

[Sundoggy]

8. Never thought of myself

as a white supremacist, but I'm definitely a Cosby supporter.

What a shame that we apparently can't even discuss the matter.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Oh, we can certainly discuss the matter.

Why don't you go ahead and tell me what you think the problem with black people is.

I'm all ears.

[Sundoggy]

11. Sure you are. n/t

[nomorenomore08]

12. Three words: WAR. ON. DRUGS.

The whole charade provides a convenient rationale for incarcerating people already seen as the threatening Other (i.e. lower-class, dark-skinned folks) in numbers that far outpace the rest of the world. The fact that Cosby completely ignores the significance of the WOD, and probably even supports it, destroys any credibility he might have to speak on these matters.

[TCJ70]

13. Wow, that's not a loaded question...n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. That's what the discussion is about.

Just cutting it to the chase.

[BigDaddy44]

14. Ok, I'll tell you

The illegitimacy rate in the African American community is approximately 75-80%. That means up to 4 out of 5 children are growing up with only one parent. I don't think anyone can argue that this is a good thing, and has not contributed to many problems in the African American community. The liberal progressive Daniel Patrick Moynihan (later Senator from the State of New York) identified this as a problem in the mid 60's, and its gotten much worse since then.

There. There's one problem. And its not a problem with "black people"; rather, its a problem within the African American community.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Alright, so you think black people are too promiscuous.

What are the other problems?

[BigDaddy44]

17. It has nothing to do with promiscuity

I don't know the exact figures, but I don't believe the birth rate for African Americans is higher than it is for anyone else.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Where do you think babies come from, Bigdaddy?

:shrug:

[Sundoggy]

22. You're being disingenuous

You know perfectly well what his point is. Why not respond to it rather than evade it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. That is his point.

The problem with black people is that they sleep around too much and have to many kids and done get married like proper white people.

:shrug:

Why are you evading it?

[Sundoggy]

32. The problem, since you ask...

and since you want to evade it so desperately, is that far too many adult black males put adult black femaless in the position of raising kids single handedly.

That's not racism, that's not white supremacy, that's statistics. And it's not my fight anyway, so laters.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. So you're saying...

the problem with black people is that black men are deadbeats...

[Sundoggy]

38. I already told you...

...I'll put my own words in my own mouth, thanks. Is that how you frame the issue?

[TCJ70]

36. It could also point to inconsistencies in the justice system...

...incarceration rates and all that.

[Sundoggy]

39. I'm sure that's a factor too n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. What do you think are the other factors?

This wasn't an issue thirty, forty years ago. Why do you think it's a problem now?

[Sundoggy]

47. That's a really good question...

I have no idea. Why do you, he said, preparing to cover his face. ;)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. Collapse of blue collar jobs for African Americans.

The problem is not with black people at all. The problem is institutionalized racism.

:shrug:

[Sundoggy]

54. Hey I saw Bulworth too...

... one of my favorite movies.

No argument there. What do we do about it? And to be fair, do you think that's the ONLY problem?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. "do you think that's the ONLY problem?"

Do I think institutionalized racism is the only problem?

Yes, of course. Don't you? What else would there be?

[Sundoggy]

59. Thanks for the answer n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Thanks for yours.

Tells me much.

[Sundoggy]

64. Ya know

you shouldn't read so much into people you don't even know. My history in the civil rights direction might surprise you.

Peace!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Suuuuuure.

[Sundoggy]

68. Hey, bud, believe what ya like.

Peace and happiness to you and yours. Really.

[TCJ70]

69. Just a quick question:

Do you believe only white people can be racist?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. No.

But I've never met a racist black man.

Racist white people? Why, I've met several of them today.

[TCJ70]

74. Alright.

Later!

[Sundoggy]

75. Interesting

And, yeah, later.

[BigDaddy44]

76. You met racist white people today?

Really? What made them racist? A description and definition would be quite helpful.

[Sundoggy]

78. sigh

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. People who think black people are inferior.

People who apply actions of black individuals to all black people. People who disparage African American culture. People who say things like "the problem with black people is..." and then complete that sentence.

It ain't rocket science.

[Sundoggy]

101. 'Kay

Thanks for setting me straight.

Heaven forbid you examine your OWN attitudes. You seem to think about race a lot. I never give it a second thought.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. "I never give it a second thought."

Obviously.

"Heaven forbid you examine your OWN attitudes."

Let's. Shall we?

[BigDaddy44]

108. You asked for a problem

And I quoted statistics. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was GREATLY concerned about those statistics. Is he a racist too?

You know, I know you're just having some fun and baiting all of us, but I will tell you this. When I see a young black child who has a young single mother, it just breaks my heart. It really does. I hope the poor kid does well for him or herself, i really honestly do, but the odds are stacked against him or her. You can cry "racist" all you want, but you have no idea of the hearts of people, and those who truly want to help and make things better for all of us. Go ahead, "racist! bigot! klan member!" Call me every name in the book. I don't care. But i'll still die a little inside every time I see a young person who doesn't have a chance.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

119. Mr. Benign Neglect?

:rofl:

"When I see a young black child who has a young single mother, it just breaks my heart."

Uh huh.

and do young white children with single mothers make you feel the same way? What's your marital status, Bigdaddy?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

181. Then you must not know very many black men.

[alphafemale]

187. In America? On the whole? Pretty much only white people can be racist.

Individuals who are minorities can have repulsive prejudices, that is true.

But they can't really be racist. They don't have the entrenched power to enforce, coerce, modify and muddle the entire paradigm.

And by the way, I'm white.

[Sundoggy]

201. If this were a reasonable discussion

I would point out that, in a debate, it's generally not productive for people to redefine common words to fit their own agendas. "Racist" has an actual dictionary meaning.

But it's not a reasonable discussion, and I am horribly disappointed to think it never will be.

[nels25]

49. Suppose you tell us??

I for one would be interested to know.

As a white USN disabled vet all I desire to do is live the rest of my life in peace, love my family and pay my bills.

I am not into white guilt, and do not feel that is a suit I am required to wear.

[BigDaddy44]

27. Mormons

Now THEY know how to make LOTS of babies. Ever seen the Osmond family photo?

[Sundoggy]

18. I call foul

That doesn't logically follow at all.

[nomorenomore08]

20. What you guys are neglecting to realize is the foolishness of making sweeping generalizations

about tens of millions of people.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. "The problem with black people is they have too many bastard kids."

That's the argument, SD. Agree or disagree?

[TCJ70]

23. I think your choice of words used to...

...paraphrase what's been said paints an inaccurate picture.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Frankly, TCJ70...

I find the word "illegitimacy" to have the same sentiment as "bastard."

[BigDaddy44]

25. Do you think 4 out of 5 kids not having a father in the house is NOT a problem?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Frankly, no.

I think it's sexist to boot, to assume that there's something wrong with single motherhood.

[BigDaddy44]

30. Then we disagree

I'm of the opinion that young men need strong male role models. And the best male role model is a father in the home. Its not a perfect model, and it doesn't always happen, but in my opinion its optimal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. So how do you feel about lesbian couples raising children?

:shrug:

[BigDaddy44]

37. Did you read the part about "optimal" and not happening all the time?

There are certainly exceptions that work very well. I'm talking about the rule. And if you can refer to me a sociological study that refutes it, i'll be more than happy to read it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. So is it OK or isn't it?

The 40% is OK among white communities, the 70% in AA communities isn't?

[BigDaddy44]

44. Where did I say that exactly?

You didn't ask me about problems in the white community. They are legion.

[Sundoggy]

33. There isn't a sociologist

in the country that would disagree.

[Sundoggy]

42. I'd love to hear

what the ladies have to say to THAT one...

[countryjake]

82. Certainly no lady here, but not having a father as a male role model...

would be, in my opinion, the least of my single-parent raised kid's problems, in growing up.

Inadequate, unfair wages for equal work; non-existent child-care resources; discrimination against single-parents in the job-market; woefully lacking public transportation; and a biased, racist justice system would rank far above any invisible father, to my way of thinking.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

53. You need to step back

You're way too defensive to have a reasoned discussion with on this..

Ill tell you a story:

A few months ago my wife was hospitalized and I was left for 6 weeks as basically a single father. I could not keep up at work, I could barely keep the house up, and I spent less time with the kids because I was doing the work of two people. By the time I finally got them to bed at 8:30 I was ready to pass out but instead I did bills, mail, got cloths and food laid out for the next day and passed out at about 9:30 only to wake up and start the whole thing over at 5:30 the next day.

There is nothing wrong with single mothers (parents), but its a crap load harder to do it alone than with someone else and to say 80% of mothers doing on their own is in any way shape or form good for the next generation is completely delusional. Are some people strong enough to do it? of course but at the marco level an 80% single parent home life will hurt then next generation.

[nomorenomore08]

158. But the question is, who's to blame for that rate of out-of-wedlock births?

I'll tell you, it sure as hell isn't the gangsta rappers, it sure as hell isn't the "black leaders" some people love to scapegoat, and it sure as hell isn't some broad-brushed societal "group" behaving irresponsibly in a monolithic way.

A good place to start is the bullshit "War on Drugs," which more than anything provides an excuse to put millions of young working-class men, disproportionately black ones, in prison. After all, you can't be much of a daddy if you're behind bars, now can you? And before you launch into some pious anti-drug sermon, consider that the deck is stacked - racial profiling, sentencing disparities, and on and on.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

161. Well one would think thats the question but:

BigDaddy44 Tue May-06-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Do you think 4 out of 5 kids not having a father in the house is NOT a problem?

Bornaginhooligan Tue May-06-08 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Frankly, no.

I think it's sexist to boot, to assume that there's something wrong with single motherhood.

--

But to address your question:

There is no *one* factor that has caused it to lay it at the feet of one thing or another is somewhat disingenuous. I did mention earlier that disproportionate in punishment was a factor but there are other factors as well and we could sit here all day and argue about them ( I would think you and I would agree more than argue, but I digress ) but in the end the big question is how do you fix it?

Cosby is basically saying that the AA community has to fix it themselves, Wright is saying the AA community has to fix it themselves. They differ on the weight and importance of ongoing blame..

[nomorenomore08]

dupe

[nomorenomore08]

163. Well, I think the real difference is in how Cosby and Wright view their own people.

Cosby has internalized society's simple-minded, racist judgements against a monolithic "black community," whereas Wright hasn't.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

164. Well I dont agree...

I don't think Cosby sees the plight as self inflicted but, rather, he sees that the solution is not going to be in blaming others. I think that rather than yell and scream about who did what hes taking on what, in his opinion, has to be done to fix it..

In any event I respect your opinion on this issue..

[nels25]

56. Check out the studies

a 2 parent household (note I did not denote gender) has been shown over and over again to be beneficial to the overall development of a child when compared to a single parent.

That is not to say a single parent can not be a successful one, only that 2 loving parents seem to accomplish a better job.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

180. I can see why you'd say that.

It's obviously working so well. I don't think I need the sarcasm tag.


David

[Sundoggy]

28. Sorry, I don't play that game

I'll put word in my own mouth, thank you very much. And since it's quite obvious that you're interested in baiting rather than reasoning, see ya later.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

45. Wow obtuse is not just of angels anymore

Umm.. Have you seen Rap videos? They push a violent, sexist, culture that in the end hurts African American kids and despite the fact that the powers that be behind it are white you'll still tar and feather me just for bringing it up. Many kids idolize the player lifestyle which they see in videos where nice cars and hot women are what its all about (again they are making many white men rich in the process) thus propagating the cycle of one parent homes which makes it hard enough to just provide for a kid let alone make sure they are not acculturated into the same lifestyle.

The problem is not 'black people' as you keep trying to imply Cosby or BigDaddy says but the solution *is* the African American community (which is what Cosby actually says).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Ah, now we're on to rap music. Great!

The problem with black people is rap music!



So what else is the problem?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

55. Well if you did read my post

I blamed white people so does that make it ok?

But hey I'm sure according to you things are just hunky dory in the AA community and it lacks nothing but some TLC from rich white politicians in Washington to make it all better right?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. You blamed an african american art form.

That's stupider than blaming Dungeons and Dragons for the rise of satan worship.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

71. Hmm so African Americans consider calling

Women Bitches and Ho's an art form huh? seems your inner bigot is coming out...

See its not so nice when you try to talk to someone and they would rather talk for you than to you right...

You missed key components of my post which are:

1) The preponderance of Rap which propagates a get paid, get laid, and run away lifestyle ( yes there is some deep meaningful stuff out there but it is getting lost in the noise ). And who is getting rich off of this? Wealthy white people.

2) BigDaddy never said African Americans were the problem, he and Cosby said they are the solution to many of the problems that plague their community.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. Rap's an art form regardless of who thinks it is and isn't.

"seems your inner bigot is coming out..."

In what way? Is Elton John a misogynist? He wrote a whole song about bitches.

"1) The preponderance of Rap which propagates a get paid, get laid, and run away lifestyle ( yes there is some deep meaningful stuff out there but it is getting lost in the noise ). And who is getting rich off of this? Wealthy white people."

Sex. Drugs. Rock and Roll.

:shrug:



"2) BigDaddy never said African Americans were the problem, he and Cosby said they are the solution to many of the problems that plague their community."

When asked, he said the problem was they have too many illegimate children.

Cosby agrees with that. He also says rap music. And that they're too stupid. And that they give themselves dumb names. And so on. Like I said, standard white supremacist rhetoric.

[BigDaddy44]

93. Ever listen to "the bitch is back"?

It ain't about women genius.......

[nels25]

100. Okaay - One song about a bitch

compared to how many about bitches, ho's, ripping a vagina, killing cops etc.

Defend it if you like.

I know garbage when I hear it.

By the way you do know that Rev Sharpton does not like it, right??

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

110. Why should I give a fuck that Sharpton doesn't like it?

Why'd you even think to mention him?

:rofl:

"killing cops"

Was Bob Marley a rapper? I didn't know that!

[tishaLA]

153. By that standard, the problem with Italian Americans

is the Sopranos and Martin Scorcese.

[nomorenomore08]

160. And through analogy, the absurdity of the argument is revealed.

:thumbsup:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

111. I apologize for dispargaging all rap

Not my intention and yes it is a valid art form. But like any art form it can be constructive or destructive and much of what gets put out (some of the highest grossing stuff) is destructive.

I think the communication problem you and he were having comes from two sources (1) the depth and complexity of the problem and (2) your initial insistence to be, well, an ass (and we all do it from time to time) but all you did was virtually get in his face and started screaming bigot taking everything he said in only the most negative way possible.

The high rate of single parent households is a problem and there are many sources some are institutional racism ( like disproportionate criminal prosecution ) but some are not ( higher teen pregnancy rates ).

In the end whether or not you agree with Cosby or Write (both make very compelling arguments) the outcome is about the same. Its white people that caused the problems its not bloody likely going to be white people that fix it..

Please accept my apology for my tone earlier I detest having words put into my mouth and sadly I reacted in kind..

-regards

[nels25]

81. It is a repugnant art form to some

you can enjoy it that is your God given right in this nation, I wore a uniform to protect that right and got a service connected disability for doing so (not complaining, would do it again if required to).

I find it abusive to women in the extreme, I also find that certain African-Americans who enjoy it to be extremely belligerent when called to put on a set of headphones or turn it off in a berthing area of a Frigate. Cost 2 African-American radiomen their stripe (they were third class petty officers before then).

I have a right to read in berthing in peace, and not have to put up "I shot a cop and then F(*&^% a whore, busting her P(**&" and having three stripes to their one I made sure I didn't.

Moral: It is never a good idea to pit one stripe against three.

I WIN

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. Sure, repugnant people.

:rofl:

[superduperfarleft]

87. I'm a civilian.

So I don't care how many stripes you claim to have. I still think you're a racist asshole.

Who let John McCain's grumpy older brother on this board?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

98. LOL

"also find that certain African-Americans who enjoy it to be extremely belligerent when called to put on a set of headphones or turn it off in a berthing area of a Frigate. Cost 2 African-American radiomen their stripe (they were third class petty officers before then)."

Text book case.

[nels25]

109. Oh spare me

I have not voted for a Dem at the President level since Ford (only 18 at the time).

I imagine you are to good to defend the nation if required (and do not weasel out by refering to Iraq).

Yep if this was a Pearl Harbor type situation and the nation really was threatened I am sure we could count on you??

Look I went in at peace time (73) and on my own volition, so I can not complain.

But I served with numerous African-American enlisted men and officers whose manure you are not fit to clean!

[superduperfarleft]

114. I knew it!

John, shouldn't you be campaigning?



I don't give a fuck if you served in the military or didn't. Like most people who think that jingoism and nationalism are mental diseases, I don't believe that being in the military automatically prevents you from being an asshole (funny, I find the two usually come in pairs, but I digress). So don't act like I have to respect a single piece of racist trash that comes out of your mouth just because you put on a stupid uniform for a few years to defend the Motherland.

[nels25]

142. I am sadly comming to the conclusion

that I wasted my time wearing the uniform to defend you!!

You do not merit it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

145. You said you signed up in peace time.

So you didn't defend him at all.

Having trouble keeping your war stories straight? Maybe you shouldn't have made them up in the first place.

[nels25]

152. Can I reasonably deduce then

that you do not believe a standing peace time military to be needed?? (I just no I am going to regret stating that)


Oh and I never stated I had any war stories to tell, I have some stories about while I was active duty, but no war stories.

I have way to much respect for those who have actually seen combat to sully them by claiming I do when I do not.

Members of the military who have come under hostile fire merit this nation's undying respect and gratitude.

Some have died to ensure you have the right to spiel you garbage today, try doing the same in China and see how far you would get.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

154. If you were old enough to sign up in 1973, Nelly...

You should be old enough to remember that Ford was a republican, not a democrat.

:rofl:

[nels25]

157. For the record where did I state Ford was a Democrat??

What I stated was that I have not voted for a GOP president since Ford.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

165. You said Dems, goofball.

But if you meant GOP, OK.

Thank you for your service.

I'm glad you defended me from black men listening to rap music on their headphones in 1973.

[superduperfarleft]

146. You probably did. n/t

[nomorenomore08]

159. "That's stupider than blaming Dungeons and Dragons for the rise of Satan worship."

You nailed it right there. People who selectively wring their hands about rap music don't realize that they're channeling Tipper Gore circa 1985, with an ugly tinge of subconscious racism added to the mix.

[superduperfarleft]

67. What about heavy metal?

Glorifying drug use, violence, and various other bits of antisocial behavior. Where's your outrage about that?

Or is just that all those things combined with big scary black men makes you uncomfortable?

[Sundoggy]

85. I AM outraged about it

now that you mention it. For EXACTLY those reasons.

[superduperfarleft]

89. Uh-huh.

I'm sure.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

91. Well now isn't that special.

[Sundoggy]

96. So one way or another

I lose? Isn't THAT special.

I don't play rigged games.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

107. Pretty much.

"I don't play rigged games."

Oh, it was a fair game, you lost fair and square.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

90. The white community is not immune from it

And rising rates of single parent households, increase use of meth and other drugs all point to the very simple idiom my mother taught me... Garbage in Garbage out... Not for each and every person mind you but for large populations subjected to crap music (irregardless of race or music type) crap behavior will follow.

I am outraged by it and I wont let that filth in my home, Hell Ive even chucked my favorite Lincoln Park in the past few yeas as I realized it had a tendency to enhance any anger I was feeling.

[superduperfarleft]

97. You're branching off into something else just as ridiculous.

Note to Dad: Marilyn Manson does not cause school shootings, Ozzy Osbourne does not cause kids to kill themselves, and hip hop music does not cause kids to join gangs and abuse women.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

113. If you dont think what kids

watch, listen to, and read have at least *some* impact on ow they react to their environment, trust me Im not the one being ridiculous..

[superduperfarleft]

117. I'm an adult, and I listen to and love hiphop.

If you let your kids listen to NWA, that reflects poorly on you, not the artist.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

125. but but but....

You just took my post about the effect of music on kids and said "Marilyn Manson does not cause school shootings, Ozzy Osbourne does not cause kids to kill themselves, and hip hop music does not cause kids to join gangs and abuse women."

I was obviously talking about the effect of having kids watching and listing to garbage to which you addressed issues that effect kids and when confronted bring up the completely unrelated subject of *your* age..

I don't let my kids listen to or watch any garbage, as they get older Ill loosen the leash a bit but for now it pretty much just PBS kid shows and some Pixar dvd's we keep around the house. But there are parents that do or are to busy to keep track of it and in those cases kids are hurt..

[Hannah Bell]

77. The majority of children in Sweden are also born illegitimate.

[Winterblues]

166. Did you take into consideration the extreme incarceration rate of black males

When we design Laws that go after the blacks this is the result. What laws you say, how about the difference in sentencing between powder cocaine and crack cocaine. Crack cocaine was designed for the very poor inner city people and is about half as potent as powder cocaine. It is just a garbage form of free basing with baking soda to make a product that can be sold for five dollars instead of one hundred dollars, yet the penalties are five times as severe.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

177. A marriage certificate does not a marriage make.

I got news for you.
Conservatives think that if two people are married, they will automatically be nice to each other, stay married, and be responsible to their spouse and their children.

It doesn't work that way. It is horrible to be in a marriage that is a sham. It won't work unless both people work at it.

The War on Drugs is a sham to incarcerate blacks and hispanics to keep feeding money to the prison-industrial complex.

The money could be better used for education, counseling and vocational training, but then that would make blacks competitive for jobs that white folks have, and that won't do with the powers that be.

[nels25]

46. Try this one on for size than.

The high violent crime spree on the north side of Milwaukee and the NCAA and other elected African-American officials turning a blind eye to it, not even offering to help the police.

Alderman Michael McGee Jr. urging a not snitching policy in the African-American community (this after he rigs his recall election) not to mention his shake down of store and bar owners in his district (he is under state and federal charges for that, but I have a 10 dollar bill based on your other posts that you would argue that the so called man set him up).

Numerous social agencies started by African-Americans turn out to be run in a fraudulent manner.

The African-American leader of the country board is revealed to be a slum lord (way to treat his own people).

The daughter of a leading African-American pastor in my own city caught committing vote fraud in 2004.

I did not even mention Gwen Moore's son vandalizing GOP vans in the 04 election.

Get the idea.

No I wonder how fast you and others will accuse me of being a racist, regardless of the fact that all I stated above has happened, do not believe me check it out.

[superduperfarleft]

63. I'll do it, you're a racist.

Otherwise, you wouldn't believe that it's okay to use a few examples of bad behavior by people who happen to be black as an indictment of an entire "community."

In case you haven't noticed, white people have also defrauded contributors, been slumlords, committed vote fraud, and committed vandalism. Are you saying that occasional instances of this by white people are examples of systemic problems in the white community? Or is that, to you, one black person's bad behavior reflects poorly on all black people?

[nels25]

95. Why??

According to quite a few posts in this thread, my pigmentation and fact that I exist in this nation is requiring me to don the mantle of a racist or at the very least white guilt.

Are you not lumping me in with a lot others.

The posted in question simply asked for reason's. I provided some.

Why should any community have to put up with what I sited, no matter what their ethnic make up.

In other ethnic community you do not see near the same type of behavior tolerated, why does it seem so prevalent in the African-American community??

And why can this not be discussed without being branded a racist??

My comments/observations are whole lot more tame then what others have been in this thread.

As I posted in other comments, I am simply not willing to don the suit of white guilt, I have done nothing to earn it.

[superduperfarleft]

103. This isn't difficult.

You think that four examples of bad behavior by black people somehow represents a systemic problem of antisocial behavior in the entire black community. By itself, it would simply be a ridiculous argument, but the fact that you don't apply the same flawed logic to the white community is what makes you a racist. (Please don't come back with, "Oh but I do!" because nobody likes a liar).

And it's the NAACP, not the NCAA, the NCAA is basketball. I'd point out the Freudian slip, but that would be a cheap shot, and I wouldn't want to reflect badly on my entire ethnicity.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. LOL

Why?

For applying the actions of individual black criminals (or alledged criminals) to the black community.

"According to quite a few posts in this thread, my pigmentation and fact that I exist in this nation is requiring me to don the mantle of a racist or at the very least white guilt."

1. Nobody ever said that.

2. the term "white guilt" is right up there with the term "n*gger lover."


"Are you not lumping me in with a lot others."

Wossamatter? Dish it out but can't take it?

"In other ethnic community you do not see near the same type of behavior tolerated, why does it seem so prevalent in the African-American community??"

Golly gee whiz. Rigging elections and being a slum lord? Surely white people don't do that.

:rofl:

[nels25]

126. So by your logic that makes it acceptable behavior

if done by an African-American??

When/where did I sate that other people of ethnic back ground to not behave in a similar manner??

However compare the comotion made when a miscreant is white as opposed to black?

There are March's, press conferences and threats of social unrest if the problem is not addressed (note that some grievances such as the recent exoneration of detectives who shot the Groom in NY 50 times that are legitimate. I hope Rev. Sharpton does shut that city down, that was a horrendous miscarriage of justice).

Yet when the chair of the county board (Leon Hines I believe) in Milwaukee was proven to be a slum lord, there was nary a peep from the organized black community, why??

To me I see a double standard.

Mr. cosby is right, their is such a concept of responsibility for one's actions/community.

Sometime what I see confuses me and I do not understand it.

It does not make me a racist.

But good luck, and keep trying, I have a feeling that your mind is made up.

Me I am going to vote for Barack in the fall and hope that he is right and we can get past all this BS!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

178. Black people kill each other at alarmingly high rates.

There's a good place to start.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

179. Black people have really big ears.

Sorry I couldn't resist with your I'm all ears statement.

David

[emilyg]

10. I have known Dr. Pouissant since the 60's

I promise you, he's not a nut.

[nomorenomore08]

7. The problem with Cosby is that the picture he paints is woefully incomplete.

In essence, he mistakes effects for causes. Or, to put it more bluntly, he has his causes and effects ass-backwards. The social problems he talks about sure as hell weren't created in a vaccuum, or on a level playing field for that matter.

[cyberswede]

35. Review of the book in the Nation

And I think the author says what you said.

The entire article is "Hearts and Minds"

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080512/sugrue

Bill Cosby and Alvin Poussaint's Come on People, combining pop psychology and individualist bromides, carries racial individualism to its logical and absurd conclusion. "How many speakers speak out every day about racism, whether it's systemic or whatever?" writes Cosby. "Even if there is truth to what they say, they sedate themselves with it." Come on People is a mishmash of romanticism ("In 1950, we still feared our parents and respected them"), libertarianism ("Governments don't care. People care, and no people care like parents do") and hoary parental advice ("Turn off the TV," "Reinforce Standard English," "Respect Our Elders"). The book is ostensibly targeted toward poor and working-class blacks, but Cosby and Poussaint's real audience is middle-class blacks, those cardigan-wearing suburbanites who have "made it" and who can nod along righteously as they distance themselves from their prodigal drug-dealing sons and nephews and grandchildren who live their lives buying iced-out bling, "wallowing in victimhood" and blaming whites and "the system" rather than shaping up and imitating their betters. Come on People is The Power of Positive Thinking for the wayward Negro. We shall overcome--by ourselves, by our own hard work and gumption, thank you very much.

Cosby and Poussaint's notion that black poverty and violence are the result of self-defeating behavior is simplistic, if widely held among blacks and whites. And their solution--that black people need to fix it themselves by fixing themselves--is disastrously shortsighted. We expect the poor to be heroic and then lambaste them for failing. Cosby and Poussaint give a nod to the difficulties of life for impoverished and working-class blacks who struggle to get by on mediocre wages, in insecure jobs, with less and less support from a punitive welfare state and with notoriously troubled schools. But the duo's solution is part of the problem. Heroic efforts at self-uplift might redeem a handful of lucky people, but it will take more than turning off rap music, giving up expensive sneakers and listening to Grandpa to take on the unfinished business of racial inequality.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

148. I think its his presentation that is imcomplete

When you get lost sometimes its best to figure out how you got lost and other times its best to just figure out where the hell you are and how to get where you're going. The base of what Cosby says is *stop waiting for white people to save you, you gotta do it your self* whats slightly more accurate is *stop waiting for white people to save you they got you into this in the first place so you gotta get yourself out*..

[Kitty Herder]

43. Wow. I never thought I would see a post like this on DU.

That's all I'm going to say. I'm not touching this with a ten-foot pole.

[Sundoggy]

51. Yours is probably the wiser course lol n/t

[TCJ70]

52. Get out while you can...n/t

[Sundoggy]

62. I'm going to go attempt something safer

like hawking my NO HILLARY NO WAY t shirts in the primary area...

[BigDaddy44]

57. Whats wrong with a bit of healthy disagreement and dialogue?

What are we afraid of? I think its refreshing. Any message board where everyone agrees on every topic gets boring and stagnant fast.

[superduperfarleft]

72. This isn't "discussion."

This is just a thread where clueless white people can moan about rap music and welfare queens.

[BigDaddy44]

79. Bill Cosby is a clueless white person?

After all, he's the subject of the thread.

[superduperfarleft]

83. Bill Cosby is just an arrogant ass. n/t

Nice try, though.

[BigDaddy44]

88. I wasn't "trying" anything

You were racially stereotyping. I was pointing out your error.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BigDaddy44]

99. So now I'm a Klan member because I agree with Bill Cosby

Well thanks for clearing that up. I take it rhetoric and debate weren't your calling in college. "you don't agree with me....you must be in the KLAN!!!" sheeeeeesh

[superduperfarleft]

106. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.

But it's not my fault that you sound like a white supremacist.

Although I suppose it's a good thing that the master race has you to protect them from the scourge of black people breeding bastard children right and left. /sarcasm

[BigDaddy44]

112. Come to my house some time

And I'll introduce you to my best friends who live next door who last year adopted two little girls from Africa who were orphans. The two little girls who are at my house every day, playing with my kids and who I love like daughters. You and I can have a discussion about this "master race" you so eloquently speak of.

[superduperfarleft]

115. Does this mean I win at bingo?

Keep digging...

[BigDaddy44]

121. No, but it means all you know how to do is throw the race card

And immediately says "I win!!" Its like a 3 year old calling another 3 year old a "doo doo head". Wow, impressive. Someday, when you learn to properly debate a topic instead of just calling names, well then, maybe we can have a debate. Okay, off to the Tuesday "master race" meeting. Its at 5 at the American Legion hall.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

116. The "Some of my best friends are black" argument will not win you any arguments on the issue.

Everytime someone trashes the AA community, they come up with a few predictable responses:

Bill Cosby/Shelby Steel/Larry Elder said:

Some of my best friends are black

I'm not a racist, but...

[superduperfarleft]

118. Welfare queens, bastard children, Al Sharpton, rap music....

This thread is fucking gold....

[SemiCharmedQuark]

120. Who are the other heroes? Larry Elder! Shelby Steele!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

123. God save us from cliches.

You couldn't have scripted this better.

"I haven't voted for a dem since Ford" was a doozy. I wasn't expecting that.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

124. Oh, that's another good one: "I work with black people"

My husband's boss once said he went to school with black people. Ugh.

[superduperfarleft]

128. See above.

You guys need to quit throwing around the "race card."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

129. "I am not a racist"

After admitting to voting for Reagan and Bush.

:rofl:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

155. I think sadly that communication is *that* bad

The other day while driving home a girl on a bike yelled something at me, I pulled over and got out of the car to asked what she said (for all I know I just ran over a pet mouse). She might have though I was belligerent (I was very ill so I probably did not look my best) and she started screaming "you hate black people, you're a racist" I mean this girl does not know me from the easter bunny what am I going to say to that?

Some people (and we have seen it on this thread to a degree) take disagreement on race issues as 'well youre racist' its really painful to see because it just keeps people from talking.

[malaise]

192. How did I miss this thread

:rofl:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

203. Thats simple

You're a very lucky man ;)

[nels25]

137. I do not suppose you could try to discuss this

discourse sands the snide and arrogant comments??

You are wearing you hate on your sleave for all to see.

I if I am to be labeled a whate racist (a label I refuse BTW)

Then you might consider what your posts in a large part of this thread could leade me to consider you??

Think about it.

[superduperfarleft]

138. A black racist? I give up.

Help me out here...

[nels25]

147. If the shoe fits!!

[superduperfarleft]

149. Awesome.

Tell your wife and daughters that me and the brothaz will be over later. /sarcasm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

150. We're not judging you on the color of your skin, Nell

It's about the content of your character.

[nels25]

156. You have no idea of the content of my character

and I would wager you never will.

You are making ad-hom-en judgments about me, I simply stated (perhaps out of frustration) that the other gentleman could merit the label as a racist also based on his posts.

It is no different than what I have been judged to be.

At least I have made a attempt to define/defend my positions with out for the most part retreating to name calling.

My service has been dismissed in a cavalier manner, you spent 17 years of your life in the military, spend extended tours away from your wife and son, and then wife son and daughter and come talk to me about character.

I was willing to go into combat if required, and I am unashamed of my service.

Also I am unashamed of my job now with the VA, the church I attend or the community I live in.

You have no right to judge my character.

I will refrain from judging yours, from this point onward.

There good enough for you??

[SemiCharmedQuark]

151. What did I say that was racist?

Also, you'd have to call me a Latino racist.

[BigDaddy44]

140. Geez

try spellcheck dude!!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

143. In a large part of this thread? I've posted only a few comments.

But I will tell you, I have always detested the "I love Bill Cosby" threads because Bill Cosby is the favorite of those who would love to trash the black community but need a shield to do it.

[Ishoutandscream2]

131. That was beyond contempt

And that goes beyond any type of decent discourse or debate. Referring to a member of DU as someone who is in the Klan is despicable. There's such a thing as honest and intelligent debate, and name calling does not fit into that category. Especially something as vile as referring someone here as a member of the Klan.

[superduperfarleft]

132. I hope I didn't reflect too negatively on my ethnicity by doing that. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

133. You people are all the same.

Not that white people weren't thinking it too.

[Ishoutandscream2]

134. Jesus Christ, just stop, okay

And you know as well as I that referring to someone here as a Klan member is going over the line.

[superduperfarleft]

135. So was some of the racist tripe that's being posted all over this thread.

Funny how you pick the targets of your indignation.

[Ishoutandscream2]

139. I read the entire thread

And let me tell you, to equate what some have said here as "klan" worthy is going over the top.

[superduperfarleft]

141. Gotcha. Your concern is duly noted. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

184. I agree now would you quit posting that rascist tripe.

[superduperfarleft]

191. It's spelled "racist" genius.

You reflect poorly on your ethnicity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

197. Small keyboard big fingers.

With everything you've posted I don't think I'd be telling anyone they reflect poorly on their ethnicity.

David

[superduperfarleft]

198. Right back atcha, Dave.

That goes for you and your racist buddies all over this thread.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

200. I don't take a racist calling me a racist to seriously.

Take care of yourself.

David

[superduperfarleft]

204. I'm white, smart guy.

This is almost as good as the guy that implied I was a "black racist."

But now you can go ahead now and call me self-hating or something. :eyes:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

205. Wow a white racist, you sure are rare.

[superduperfarleft]

206. I don't think that means what you think it means. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

207. Racism is prejudice and discrimination based on race.

I'm pretty sure I got it. Although I think you are a racist, fascist probably fits you better.

[superduperfarleft]

208. Go ask a sociologist.

Maybe they'll have a little more patience with you.

As for me, this has gotten far too st00pid to deal with.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

210. I was wondering how long it would take.

I made like 10 posts yesterday trying to bait you guys. There were some zingers in there too. Have a good night.

David

[BigDaddy44]

213. Since you're such a big fan of sociology....

Then surely you'll agree that the vast VAST majority of sociologists believe that, on the whole, it is harmful to the African American community when 75%+ of children grow up without a father in the household.

Of course, I pointed out this fact (and it is a fact) and i was called a racist.

[superduperfarleft]

214. But it's important to understand the reason they think that.

As someone pointed out above, there's nothing wrong with saying that a one-parent household (especially one headed by a woman) is likely to face substantial setbacks economically or otherwise due to external forces. But the idea that women, specifically black women, are just popping out baby after baby due to, I don't know, boredom, is incredibly ignorant.

"Liberals" are supposed to be capable of nuance and the ability to see relationships in social forces. I don't understand why it's so hard for a bunch of liberals to get the fact that people aren't somehow predisposed towards poverty or criminal behavior, but that it is usually outside forces which create these behaviors. It's pretty simple to me: if you incarcerate scores of black men under racist drug laws, you're tearing someone's family apart. If you discriminate against a race of people for generations in hiring, justice, and schooling, you're leaving people no alternative than to create a reality in which criminality is one of the only options available. Cosby was lucky enough to escape that reality, and instead of using his good fortune as a way to rail against the forces which continue to oppress the african-american community, he'd rather berate them for not being "white" enough. Hence the reason I think he's an arrogant ass.

Then there's the white people who love him because they found a poster child for all the bigoted things they've wanted to say to black people but couldn't. Cosby just validates their attitudes. "See, even the negro is saying it!!!!"

It seems even liberals are more comfortable blaming the victims than admitting that maybe the mostly white-run institutions and attitudes that pervade our society may be the cause of the problems which they're complaining about.

[Sundoggy]

80. Ahh

Thanks for setting me straight on that. I'll get right on it.

[nels25]

130. I do not know about others

but I have been replying because I want to discuss (not call names).

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

183. Now that's a rascist statement.

[superduperfarleft]

199. .

I do not think that means what you think it means.

[CRF450]

211. Its bad when some gansta looking thug plays rap with explicid content

and bass blaring loud when kids anf elderly people are around, I see that ALOT in my town. Its no different to me if the occupents of the vehicle are white.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. Meh.

It happens every once in awhile.

[Elspeth]

66. Cosby came from the projects in Philly; He knows whereof he speaks

For anyone to tar and feather him for trying to foster an attitude of non-victimhood is just plain wrong.

[Hannah Bell]

167. He didn't come from the projects. He came from the black middle

class, same neighborhood as Rev. Wright, Germantown. They both went to Central High during the 50s: "Central High School of Philadelphia, among the best schools in the area at the time.<8> At the time, the school was around 90 percent white." Cosby transferred to Germantown High, then dropped out.

They both went into the service, then to college in the 60s; cosby 61, Temple U: Wright 67, Howard.

[Elspeth]

168. No, he grew up in the Richard Allen housing project, in poverty. See bios in post

Presidential Medal of Freedom Recipient Bill Cosby


B orn William Henry Cosby on July 12, 1937 in the Germantown district of North Philadelphia. He grew up in the all-African American Richard Allen housing project where his mother, Anna Cosby, struggled to raise him and his younger brothers, Russell and Robert. His father, William Cosby, Sr., served as a mess steward in the U.S. Navy and was away for months at a time. As a child, Cosby loved comedy radio shows featuring Jack Benny, Burns & Allen, Jimmy Durante, and Fred Allen. By the fifth grade, Cosby was getting up in front of his class and making everybody laugh, including his teacher.

Cosby's high IQ led teachers to place him in a class for gifted students, but outside interests eventually derailed his school career. Between work and playing football, basketball, baseball, and running track, he found little time for schoolwork. When Cosby was told that he would have to repeat the tenth grade at Germantown High, he dropped out. In 1956, he enlisted in the Navy. Away from school, Cosby realized the importance of an education and used his four years in the Navy to prepare for the day when he would continue his schooling. Cosby learned physical therapy, traveled around the Western Hemisphere, and earned a high school equivalency diploma through correspondence courses. In 1961, at the age of 23, Cosby won a track and field scholarship to Temple University.

http://www.medaloffreedom.com/BillCosby.htm



See also:



"Abandoned by his welder father at an early age and forced to look after his younger brothers while his mother worked as a domestic, Bill Cosby rose from the projects of north Philadelphia to become one of the most highly-paid television personalities in America—reportedly worth $325 million in 1995."

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hc&id=1800036559&cf=biog&intl=us

William H. Cosby, Jr. was born in Philadelphia on July 12, 1937. The son of a maid and an absentee father, he grew up in abject poverty, ultimately dropping out of high school to join the Navy. After earning his diploma through correspondence courses, he won a football scholarship to Temple University; while taking classes during the day, he tended bar in the evenings, where his easy ability to make customers laugh resulted in the decision to pursue a career in comedy.

http://www.answers.com/topic/bill-cosby?cat=entertainment


ortunately as well, Bill Cosby (born 1937) had a naturally good image of himself, one that had been carefully instilled by his mother, Anna Pearl Cosby, a domestic worker who read Mark Twain and the Bible to her three sons at night. It was she who inculcated in them the certainty that a better life was available than what surrounded them in their impoverished neighborhood of Germantown, North Philadelphia.

The boys grew up in the projects, but their parents programmed them from an early age to expect, and to work for, more. Their father, William Henry Cosby, was a mess steward in the Navy; his tours of duty took him away from home for months at a time.

http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/cosby_bill.htm

African-American entertainer Bill Cosby, in his own words, "started out as a child," the son of an eight-dollars-a-day maid and an absentee father. A product of grinding poverty, Cosby escaped his rundown Philadelphia neighborhood by dropping out of high school and joining the navy.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/person/75803/bio.jhtml


Cosby attended Wister Elementary School along with his pals Fat Albert, Old Weird Harold, Dumb Donald, Rudy, Nolan and Weasel-all later immortalized by Bill Cosby's comedy routines. When school was out, they could all be found romping through the projects (four massive suburban tenement buildings with a cement playground in the center) or under the Ninth Street Bridge. It was there that Cosby acquired his athletic skills and his lifetime love of sports. Cosby's sixth grade teacher must have sensed his genius when she wrote on his report card, "William is a boy's boy, an all?around fellow, and he should grow up to do great things."


http://www.starglimpse.com/celebs/pages/bill_cosby/bill_cosby.shtml


(There are more, but you get the idea.)


Before you start spreading lies to prove your point, you should check your facts.


Edited to add more:

As Bill Cosby ages, the source of his humor moves further away from his early days as a standup comic, when he drew upon his childhood in a north Philadelphia housing project to make people laugh.

http://www.tvparty.com/satfat.html


When the Richard Allen Housing project was renovated, Cosby showed up:

"PHILADELPHIA, March 27, 2003 /PRNewswire/ -- The final phase of the Philadelphia Housing Authority's (PHA) beautiful new Richard Allen development opened today with the arrival of the first two families. Both families are former Allen residents, now returning home. The event was also a homecoming for three prominent Philadelphians who grew up at Allen. Bill Cosby, City Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell and public relations executive Bruce Crawley all turned out to celebrate the transformation of their former neighborhood."

http://sev.prnewswire.com/real-estate/20050507/PHF02106052005-1.html


Before Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids, before Jell-O Pudding -- but not before I Spy -- there was the understated comedy of The Bill Cosby Show, showcasing one of the greatest comedians ever to grace the face of the Earth. His humor has withstood time, transcended race, and maintained a universal appeal across a broad spectrum of fans.

In The Bill Cosby Show, Cosby plays Chet Kincaid, a physical education teacher at the Richard Allen Holmes High School, a school Cosby named after the projects in Philadelphia where he partly grew up. The show was also a launching point for Cosby to begin his lifelong crusade to promote education.

[Hannah Bell]

169. His father was "absentee" because he was military. He didn't

abandon his family. Read Cosby's bio.

Germantown was not an "impoverished" neighborhood. That's idiotic.

[Elspeth]

170. I read the bios, did you? How about an apology for your incorrect facts?

And absentee due to military service is the truth. No one is accusing the senior Cosby of having run out on his kids.

[Hannah Bell]

171. Sorry, I don't care what the bios said. He had a working dad,

a working mom, lived in Germantown & went to the best high school in the city, 90% white.

Not "impoverished". Not ghetto. He may have walked through.

[Elspeth]

173. So you don't care about the facts, just about your own fantasy of Cosby's background

Then there's nothing I can do. You will believe what you believe regardless of the truth.

[Hannah Bell]

175. not my fantasy, i read his book,

[Elspeth]

176. Then you must not have read his book too well if you thought he didn't come from the projects

and that his father wasn't away a lot.

I don't know what to do with someone who can hold a lie up as the truth in the way you do.

[Hannah Bell]

185. His father was away WORKING. They stayed married until he died.

Richard allen homes designed as a showplace. From another resident, same period:

Occupation: Dean, College of Engineering, Villanova University.

Age: 60.

Education: Roman Catholic High School; B.A., Villanova, 1970; M.A., Carnegie Mellon, 1973; Ph.D., Carnegie Mellon, 1976.

Public housing project: Richard Allen Homes.

Years he lived there: 1946-1965.

"How he remembers it: "When I was very young there were white picket fences. The yards and gardens were very well maintained. You would call a repairman and they would come right out and fix things. The plumbers and the electricians had their own yard and building. My mother raised six of us. For an African-American kid coming of age, the projects provided an extended family. It was your whole frame of reference. Everyone you knew and trusted lived right there. Later there were gangs and drugs, and by my high school years the surrounding neighborhood had become pretty sinister. But it never penetrated your home, or at least you felt like it wouldn't."

Cosby in the service in 57. His mother had a HOUSE in Germantown before he entered college in 61.

Ra Homes started out as housing for WORKING-Class black families in the 40s, didn't go ghetto until the 60s. Cosby wasn't there then. He didn't grow up in any mean streets, or in a broken home.

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?

[Elspeth]

186. He lived 19 years in the projects, according to your own data. So why are you arguing?

And his dad was away. So what's your beef?

[Hannah Bell]

215. Cosby born 1937. Richard allen homes built 1942, he moved in some time later. In the military

in 1956. Not 19 years.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

102. I cannot believe you posted this here.

[CBGLuthier]

122. I love it when white people tell black people who they should follow

IS this the same saintly Cosby who fucked around on his wife and may have even used date rape drugs to molest women?

Cosby is a great comedian. But as social commentator he has a long way to go.

[Brewman_Jax]

136. The same Cosby

that kept his head down and did nothing for the civil rights struggle years ago. He stayed quiet and non-controversial, and benefited.

[superduperfarleft]

144. But don't you realize...

that if black people didn't have bastard kids and give those bastard kids funny names and raise them listening to weird music, the same white people who were lynching them, denying them the right to vote, denying them equal justice under the law, etc. etc. would've treated them much nicer? /sarcasm

[nomorenomore08]

162. I already said it, but hell, I'll say it again: What makes some people think

that it's sensible or logical to make sweeping generalizations about whole segments of society? Of course, the worst part of it is the unexamined biases that it reveals, but the stupidity of it is what gets to me. I mean, how would you like it if the Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel types were taken as representative of all white people? I'm white, and I sure as hell wouldn't like it.

[MedleyMisty]

174. I think that some people are completely incapable

of thinking of people they don't know personally as individual humans. I guess it's too much for their tiny little minds to handle, or something?

And try living in the southern region of the US if you want to be stereotyped and generalized about by people who are loudly claiming that they aren't prejudiced. Of course they're denying their own prejudice and projecting it on to a group of millions of people and taking it out on them, but hey.

I especially like it when people who live in milk white areas and have never been around people who don't look and act like them enough to confront their own prejudice go on about how pure and unstained they are and how if it hadn't been for us horrible nasty cretins in the South the US would have elected an atheist African American lesbian President in 1784 or something.

I don't know - I've researched prejudice a lot, trying to understand it. A lot of it does seem to be projecting - you're uncomfortable with some part of yourself and you shut yourself off to it and pretend that some other group of people is the problem and think that if you just hate on them and shoot and lynch them or whatever then your problem will go away or at least you'll feel better.

And then of course there's the whole thing where most humans are weak and stupid easily programmable robots. So they're just like, "Dur hey, other people are saying that this group sucks and I don't like to think because it makes my circuits hurt, so I'll just agree."

Yeah - I guess I'm prejudiced against humans, because I hate the motherfuckers.

[Brewman_Jax]

172. Cosby is no prophet

Using RW material recycled for years by Limbaugh and the other neo-cons is no stroke of genius. Cosby no more speaks for all black people than David Duke speaks for all white people.

[mattclearing]

182. Comparing Bill Cosby to David Duke?

Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch?

[JCMach1]

188. Exactly, he is closer to McCain than Obama

Why the hell do we listen to Hollywood claptrap when they lecture about anything!?

[Hippo_Tron]

189. I'm gonna propose something radical... Cosby and Wright both have points

Both are wrong on some things and right on others.

[Runcible Spoon]

190. a porcupine has points too

doesn't mean I'm gonna get a face full of quills kissing its ass. Cosby sucks.

[CRF450]

212. Agreed! nt

[Fumesucker]

193. No one has yet specifically noted..

That Welfare was designed in such a way as to break apart families..

Married and living together, don't bother to try to get welfare..

Single and raising kids on your own, sure you can have welfare.

At least some of the single motherhood problems were deliberately brought on by the government.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

195. You spoke before I did.

See my post below.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

194. 1) Your view mistakes the effects for the cause, and 2) Any people faced with the same conditions

act the same way.

It's not race; it's poverty. In a city like Portland, where there are relatively few African-Americans, you can happen upon a slummy looking neighborhood, and I bet the naive outsider's reaction would be, "Oh, this must be the black ghetto."

Nope, it's a poor white ghetto, full of grafitti, poorly maintained housing, grown men standing around idle on the streets in the middle of the day, single-mother families, and low educational achievement.

In both cases, there are two causes: 1) The loss of living wage blue-collar jobs. Even the conservative British magazine The Economist was forced to recognize that working-class men have been terribly hurt by the de-industrialization of the Western countries, as formerly high-paying manufacturing jobs move to the Third World and the remaining jobs for non-university graduates suffer stagnant wages, 2) The War on Drugs, where the government pays 5-digit amounts of money per person to keep young adults in prison, when it could send them to a drug rehab program and community college for much less. The underground drug industry (cocaine in black communities, meth in white communities) looks like almost irresistable money when all you have to look forward to is a lifetime of working two jobs to make ends meet.

Here's another factor. At one time (till the 1960s?) a poor, intact family could get welfare payments if the father was long-term unemployed. Then some conservatives decided that it was "immoral" for an "able-bodied man" to receive welfare payments, so they set up the "no man in the house" rule. A woman could get welfare if she was widowed, divorced, or never married, and had children. If the social worker came around and found evidence that a husband or lover was living in the household, no more welfare payments.

This new set-up couldn't have delighted conservatives more. Now they could blame poor women for being "immoral" (having children without getting married) and "lazy" (not having paying jobs). Meanwhile, they extolled the virtues of middle- and upper-class women staying home with their children.

Does one sometimes see appalling behavior among poor African-Americans? Yes. But I've seen exactly the same behavior among poor whites. Exactly the same.

It's the culture of poverty and hopelessness. Every year, a few unusually resilient individuals escape it, but only through almost superhuman effort and determination. To make it to college, a poor young person has to ignore the anti-intellectualism preached in the mass media, ignore pressure from "friends" to goof off or get into criminal activity, study amidst chaotic and dangerous surroundings, and most likely work at a low-paying job (maybe even full-time, 4PM to midnight) for years starting at age 16.

By contrast, even fairly mediocre middle-class and upper-class youth grow up with the expectation that they will attend college, and their parents will push them to do so, whether they have any academic talent or not.

[blindpig]

196. Beg to differ

Cosby is delusional or dishonest while Rev Wright speaks the truth:

*****************************************************************************************************

Clearly, this is what panic looks and sounds like when Obama's flimsy tissues of "race neutrality" are stripped away. He berates Rev. Wright and other Black voices for self-centeredness in failing to strike a balance between African American grievances and whatever ails white people. "When you start focusing so much on the historically oppressed," said Obama, "we lose sight of the plight of others." Obama is desperate to convince these "others" that he rejects anything that smacks of an Afro-centric worldview, as represented by Rev. Wright. "What became clear to me was that he was presenting a world view that contradicts what I am and what I stand for."

Rev. Wright succeeded in drawing a line in the sand, whether that was his intention or not, daring Obama to take his stand on one side or the other. Race "neutrality" - an impossibility in the actually existing United States - went out the window as Obama in extremis positioned himself at the political/historical fault line alongside the defenders of the Alamo and American Manifest Destiny. As dictated by the logic of power, Obama furiously maneuvered toward "white space," shamelessly taking cover in a kind of populist white patriotism that has always branded Black grievances as selfish, even dangerous distractions from the larger national mission. Rev. Wright's "rantings" amounted to "a complete disregard for what the American people are going through," said Obama. "What mattered to him was him commanding center stage."

SNIP

Institutional racism is alien to Barack Obama's version of the nation, a fantasy place where racial oppression has never been so endemic to the political culture as to overshadow the "promise" of America. In Obama's public vision, his Democratic caucus victory in 98 percent white Iowa, which began the cascade of Obama wins, proves that the U.S. is ready for profound racial "change." Left unnoted is the fact that Iowa incarcerates African Americans at 13 times the frequency that it locks up whites, the worst record in the nation.

For people like Rev. Jeremiah Wright, mass Black incarceration and slavery are seamlessly linked, part of the continuity of racial oppression in the U.S. Most African Americans see the world the way Rev. Wright does - that's why he's among the top five rated preacher-speakers in Black America. This Black American world view, excruciatingly aware of the nation's origins in genocide and slavery, is wholly incompatible with the American mythology championed by Barack Obama. When the two meet, they are mutually repellant.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=603&Itemid=1

[pork medley]

209. this post and post #194 each deserves its own thread n/t

[Blue_Tires]

202. they both have valid points with the similar goal...

even though the author of this piece could learn something about throwing the word "prophet" around so carelessly