"It was an act of god. . . " ('bama storm comments) Give me a break.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

It seems as though every single person in Alabama is convinced that the tornados were a message from god, and that had it not been for their prayers, they would have all been swept away. Enough already.

Excuse me. A low pressure area (or extremely high winds) and a high pressure area combined over your state. the thermal difference, and voila a vortex occurs, always spinning in the same direction because of the rotation of the planet. (yes, it really does rotate. Check out your toilet when you flush. If you guys flush, that is)

OK, let's run a little experiment. Pray that your state gets no more storms this year. See how well that works. Then, pray for the megamillion winning ticket. See how well that works. Pray for rapture. See how well that works. Pray for the sun to stand still in the sky. See how well that works.

Yes, many people suffered dearly. Yes it is a shame people died. But this is not an example of god's will. It was a STORM. STORMS happen, and given global warming, with greater frequency and strength. By laying off everything on god, you are missing several points. First, take storm warnings seriously. Second, build public buildings properly, to withstand so called god's will storms. Third, irrationally putting everything on your god's shoulders does nothing. It does not prevent storms. It does not build you better buildings. It does not make you more careful when storm warnings are given.

[RubyDuby in GA]

1. Stupid people who say that shit drive me crazy

"It was God's will" - uh, no it wasn't. It was a weather system.
I always want to ask them something like 'well, since God hates you so much to bring this upon you, don't you see that God wants you to stop voting Republican?'

[piesRsquare]

5. "If God hates you so much....stop voting Republican"

:rofl:

[RedStateShame]

39. I wonder that when I see footage of storms and disasters in red states, especially Florida.

Oh, Pat Robertson can blame hurricanes for Disney World's acceptance of gays, but not for giving a Bush more power?

[KoKo]

2. Maybe some are covering up worring that it's an Old Testament Act of God

.....like the Plagues of Egypt.

It's hard to know how people will justify horrific events. But those who believe in the "literal word of the Bible" would tend to use whatever justifications they can find.

It's not easy to deal with instant destruction for any of us...Whatever belief system we have is sorely tested.
:shrug:

[MADem]

6. Yeah, God might be PISSED at them...isn't that what Falwell always says

when a tsunami hits brown folk, an earthquake destroys towns in far off Muslim lands, or a hurricane wipes a big chunk of a famous American city with a sizeable dusky population off the map?

But of course, God isn't supposed to be mad at some people, just those "other" people. So, if the ones who always note that God is punishing those others are suddenly punished themselves, they've got to scramble to put the situation in a good light.

[Sydnie]

42. Enter Phelps - stage right

How long before they announce that they will be at the funerals of those kids? Not long I would imagine.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. oh dear, I hope not. Those people suffered enough.

to have their faith thrown in their faces by a raving lunatic and his family, simply because his peculiar faith differs slightly from theirs, would be even more horrific.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Some people can only deal with trauma that way, by anthromorphizing it.

[jody]

4. What is your source for "every single person in Alabama is convinced that the tornados were

a message from god".

Thousands of Alabamians are my friends and not one believes tornados are warnings from God.

[PVnRT]

7. Don't bother asking

They're on a roll, just let them rant and rave.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. so sorry that I was unclear.

every single person interviewed on CNN / MSGOP and CNN headlines made a point of saying it.

[Sydnie]

19. and they said "act of god" not "message from God"

BIG difference in those two statements.

[JackCo]

8. Not everyone does.

I live in Alabama and don't subsribe to the "god's will" philosphy. There are fundie types in all states Those are the ones who just seem to get the camera coverage.

[Horse with no Name]

71. Kind of like the toothless women in hair curlers that they always get to

attest to UFO's.

[Parche]

10. BAMA

"Let us spray..............."

Reverand Hal E. Lewya


Mentality of Alabama,
What do you expect of people that elected Senator Jeff Sessions into office.....

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. Well, we gave the world the fat bastert hastert.

That is hard to live down.

[Clark2008]

38. Well, I do expect so-called liberals on this board to stop

stereotyping those they don't understand. That is bigotry.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

52. what of those who do not believe in some god,

and think that religion damages our country, especially in the hands of a buffoon like Bush?

are we being misunderstood by those who are so firmly convinced that their particular religion is correct (and everyone else is wrong) that they feel insulted simply when we mention some illogical behavior being broadcast on CNN?

Your knife cuts both ways. For myself, I come to dislike organized religions starting from within, then studying them at great length and with research and study.

Want some specifics about bigotry? let's turn to the fairy tale itself.

What JC's apostles (through their eventual transcribers, some centuries later) created reads like an evil rulebook for a misogynist, teen-aged, boys-only club, starting with “baby girls bad; baby boys twice as good” in Levit.12:1-8. That same theme appears repeatedly throughout the instruction manual.
In fact, the whole biblical approach to women is pretty damning. According to the bible, it seems as though both god and JC had a major hang up about women. Maybe god was the original mysogenist and JC simply learned his behavior from his daddy. It might help explain why no one bothers to mention JC’s heavenly mommy. After all he is the alleged SON of god, right? So, who's his mommy? Why is she never mentioned

Want more proof about women’s second rate status under this cult’s instruction book? Half the population is damned before they even sin. If you bleed to breed, you are inherently and permenantly evil. Levit. 15:19-30.

Actually, even the mere existance of women is an enigma. After Eve, it takes nearly 800 years for the first breeders to be born (or at least, to be acknowledged). Genesis 5:4. Eight entire centuries without women, baby girls or sex. How did they procreate during that time? Or were they all gay?
It gets worse. The original all male cast of christian biblical authors seemed to be big on stoning, especially if the stones‘ targets were female. Because of their strong family values, these christians stoned women to death so often and for so many reasons. Even some Muslims decided to adopt the practice later on. Some scholars even admit taking the idea from the christian instruction manual.

One of the nastiest chapters in the bible has to be Deuteronomy. One set of verses requires a married woman to carry bloodied sheets around with her for life. If she loses them, and if her hubby ever tires of her, he can divorce her simply by claiming that she wasn’t a virgin at the time that they married.
If, after even decades of marriage, she cannot produce those original bloody linens (first historical example of what forensic evidence would be accepted to prove someone‘s virginity), she gets stoned to death. Deut. 22:13-21.

Bigotry? the bible is filled with it. And people who are taught it is inerrant risk becoming bigots themselves.

[Alcibiades]

59. Are you serious?

Some of us are related to, and descended from, redneck peckerwoods. I come from deep in inbred country, and I know whereof I speak.

Very rarely I do see a comment here wherein someone misunderstands the south--I did see something about southern Democrats and racism, for example, that made me realize that the poster had no clue (or had forgotten, somehow) that there are lots of black folks in the south, the vast majority of whom are Democrats.

For the most part, the stereotype is dead on. I know Bubba--heck, to some people (OK, just my sister) I am Bubba, and, if not for some accidents of fate, I would really be Bubba, up on a roof every day, taking my bass boat to Lake Murray every weekend, with a whole mess of beagles in the kennel in back of the trailer, living life through a haze of cheap weed and beer. If I sometimes betray some contempt for people who, in many ways, are the people from which I emerged, it is only because Bubba (and Mrs. Bubba, or, these days, Bubba's girlfriend/baby momma) has forgotten something our grandparents knew well, which is that the Republican Party is the rich man's party, set up to manage his political interests and to keep people like us from getting ahead.

Seriously, though, is it OK to stereotype people you do understand? Or to be bigoted against people who are (superficially, at least) much like oneself?

[malaise]

11. LOL

I give up re the logic of the so called god fearing folks.

[moggie]

13. Has Pat Robertson assigned blame yet?

I assume God's told him what this was about.

[Rosemary2205]

14. Oh hush

If someone who's lost everything including a member of their family wants to take comfort in a higher being to get them through the loss then let them. It costs you absolutely nothing.

And don't give me the silliness about how they all support Bush. Have you been to any black churches in the south? Blacks in the south overwhelmingly supported Gore and Kerry and still would react just the way those white folks in Alabama did if a tornado blew away everything we owned.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Please Stop The Intolerant Bullshit. There Is No Excuse For It.

It does not harm you in any way for someone who has spiritual beliefs to believe in a concept of God's will. It is not an honorable act to attack them for it and this sort of intolerant animosity towards people's innocent expression of religious beliefs should not be condoned or acceptable here in my opinion.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. willful ignorance damages us all.

It drives the fight for Intel Design in schools. It drives the argument that the founding fathers were all christian. It pushes the argument that their two volume collection of fairy tales is god's word writ in stone. It is emblematic of why so much war occurs on this planet. It is a symptom of intolerance itself, for if you ever tried living in those communities, and admitted that you were atheist or agnostic, you might as well move out.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. More Intolerant Bullshit. Please Refrain From It.

The premise you are putting forth is not one that our community here should be proud to see. You have now implied that anyone holding religious faith is ignorant. That is absolutely a display of disgraceful intolerance towards others beliefs and is in fact the only real ignorance I see here.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. no offense, but

There are sects in the christian faith that believe that the sun revolves around the earth; that the universe is 6,017 years old, that Adam and Eve played with Dino, the baby T-Rex; that evolution does not exist; that creationism is a science; that spilling a man's seed on the ground is a mortal sin; that if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, she will be stoned to death; then slavery is proper, so long as you take another tribes' people as slaves; that having harems of young women is great for guys; that our planet was created in 6 days, that our feckless leader hears voices in his head and that his god told him to invade IraqNam, and much more pathetic bullshit. These people ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT, and unfortunately, they vote in great numbers, chosing wonderful leaders like Santorum, Frist, McConnell, Allen, Dole, and other dangerous people.

The fact that their willful ignorance was on such public display is appropriate for a topic here. Especially when their religious views drive their politics and their politicians. The premise that I am putting forth is simple. These people ignore science, facts, rational thinking, and put everything on god. That does not bode well for our future, especially when we will have so much work to do to repair the faith based initiatives of George Bush, to social structure of our government, and to repair the damaged bodies and minds of our military, currently being wasted in Iraq. These people will fight us tooth and nail out of ignorance, and we better be completely aware of how deranged they can be, particularly under stress.

To the contrary, it is an example of some serious problems in our country, and discussing it is appropriate.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. You're Making All That Up. What You're Doing Is Displaying Intolerance.

Not one person you referenced in the OP said any of those things you claim above. You have NO IDEA if they buy into any of those things or not. The fact that you are trying to stereotype them and group them all together with such a black and white mentality, while attacking them for their religious beliefs, is the epitome of intolerance and ignorance.

The people you referenced in the OP did nothing more than express basic religious concepts. You are outwardly and aggressively attacking them for it, though it does not harm you in any way. Yes, that is being quite intolerant.

[dysfunctional press]

20. exactly.

until the human race can grow up intellectually, give up the fanatical belief in mythological deities, and realize that WE are responsible for our own welfare and that of this planet.
ands they REALLY need to stop worrying about the non-existant "next life" and start worrying about THIS life- the only one we get, and a VERY VERY short one at that.

it REALLY pisses me off that the fucking religoids aren't just content with fucking up THEIR one and only chance at life- they have to fuck up everyone else's too.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Yes, but are people on TV saying "Thank God we got through this mess" really

the problem here? By saying "Anytime we hear religious-speak it contaminates the thought processes and makes us more vulnerable to a theocracy" we're stooping to the level of the nuts who say "Any time we hear a swear word we are at risk as a society for degenerating morally or some such nonsense as that.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. Congratulations On Having An Even More Intolerant And Bigoted Premise Than The OP. Disgraceful.

Your animosity towards those who believe in religion is pathetic and you should be ashamed of it. Such prejudice and bigoted thinking is not something to be proud of.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

31. ashamed of it? I am proud of it.

And I am proud that I fight each day to attack the willful ignorance being taught to school kids, the brain damaging idea that praying for something will actually make it happen. One great example - medicine. How may jehovah's children die because they are not allowed to get transfusions, surgery, or other medical treatment? How many diseases continue unabated because as youths they are not permitted to get innoculations? How many people suffer and die with people praying over them, believing that faith will cure a raging bacterial infection? How many women have suffered because their pregnancies are unwanted but their religion prevents even teaching them how to plan parenthood?

My animosity is not directed to the poor sheep who believe in fairy tales, but to the religious leaders and teachers who create the conditions for ignorance, faith trumping rational thought, and who demand obedience because of some stories told by a variety of tribes in one book, and a heavily edited, make-believe set of fairy tales that were designed more by power politics and bloodshed than religious thought. The new testament's real history is something to behold, assuming you can figure out which translation was accurate, why they changed the meaning so much at the Council of Trent and the Council of Nicea, and why they dropped entire gospels for political reasons (the gospel of mary for example).

The same way that I do not tolerate uneducated judges on the bench, I do not tolerate religious teachers washing and rinsing the brains of children, turning them away from moral thinking, science, arts, math and history, and forcing them to swallow make believe stories that scare the shit out of them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. I Know You Are. It's Pathetic. One Should Never Be Proud Of Prejudice, Intolerance And Bigotry.

In fact, your premises put forth in this thread should be condemned by our community here. It is disgusting to see them presented.

You may be proud, but you are being proud of holding onto ignorant, narrow minded and prejudiced ideals. In my opinion, those sentiments are every single bit as disgusting and shameful as some of the same type of mentalities expressed by the other side of the aisle. Your premise is no less disgusting.

So you can hold onto your pride for such disgusting mindsets if you'd like. But just know it is an embarrassment to our community here and does nothing more than bring us down. Hope you're not proud of that too.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. is your earth flat, 6017 yrs old, and is evolution just make believe to you?

Not insignificant populations in North and South Carolina, Misery, and Alabama believe in those things.

Here, rather than fight, why don't you respond to the facts in my posts. Please, name one point that I made this is untrue.
You must admit that people actually believe in the inerrancy of the bible. Hell, the top christian leaders even said it was back in the '70s. the 1970s, I mean.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/chicago.stm.txt

You seem to be extremely sensitive and accusatory, yet you fail to point out even one fact that I mention as being false. And if the points I make are true, (and I have sites and cites for each and every one of them) then if you think rationally, you have to admit that faith can interfere with rational decision-making. Especially in the sects that demand that faith trump over thinking.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Yes, I'm Sensitive To Blatant Displays Of Bigotry & Intolerance Towards Others; As We All Should Be.

Goodbye now.

[Sydnie]

49. I don't ever remember voting for you to be the spokesperson

for "our community". If it's "our community" then I should have been given a vote as to who I want, from among the throngs of regular posters (admins and mods excepted,) who get to wag the guilt finger at any poster about what "brings us down", shouldn't I?

If you think that, it is YOUR opinion and, IMO, not your place to chastise any poster with a voice that pretends to speak for the masses. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to state it as if it were also that of "our community".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. If You Think For A Second That The Concept Of Tolerance And Avoidance Of Bigotry Is Not A Core Value

expected within our community, than you are immensely misguided and of misunderstanding of what this community is supposed to stand for.

In fact, the concepts are even written into the rules.

Now if you think that such displays of intolerance towards others beliefs and showing of bigoted prejudice should be something that IS welcomed here, than you have my full invitation to write to Skinner and request from him a change of those rules and core concepts of Democratic Underground.

Good luck with that, and let me know how it works out for ya, ok?

[BlameCanada12]

57. Awesome reply! Thank you. n/t

[Mad_Dem_X]

50. !

"ands they REALLY need to stop worrying about the non-existant "next life" and start worrying about THIS life- the only one we get, and a VERY VERY short one at that"

How do you know exactly that there is no "next life"? Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

I for one am getting really tired of the religion-bashing on DU. I am not a Christian (I consider myself a Deist), but I believe everyone is entitled to his or her beliefs without being called ignorant or stupid or any other demeaning name.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Hear Hear And Spot On!

:toast:

[dogday]

56. I agree with you... nt

[piesRsquare]

27. Yeah, yeah...

:nopity:

[rebel with a cause]

44. I have to disagree with you somewhat.

Yes, most wars are caused by religions, but not all religious people are responsible for those wars. There are some religious people who are pacifist and do not condom war. There are some religious people who are tolerant of others beliefs and there are even churches/temples that have multiple religions attending there. When we put all of any group into a jar and close it up, we are forgetting that there is always exceptions to every rule. Meaning that this world is too diverse to think one stereotype fits all of any one group.

I come from a very religious family, I am not religious. My one sister cannot understand how I am as I am and I cannot understand how she goes to a Southern Baptist church. We were raised Free Will Baptist and my father was very opposed to the SB. He called them a cult and power freaks. Anyway, I have another sister who is what I would call a Christian. She is tolerant of how I feel and how my other sister believes although she doesn't really agree with either one of us. It is easy for me to be tolerant of her and her beliefs because they do not infringe on me. I am intelligent enough to recognize that there is a difference even in families, much less in groups.

I live in one of those communities, in fact I live in that kind of area (that covers more than just one community). I don't bother them and they don't bother me. I don't preach my non belief to them and they don't preach their religion to me. If one of the church groups shows up at my door, I tell them I am not interested, shut the door, and they go away, I have never had one break down the door. If someone talks religion to me, I will talk it back. I have read the bible, and I know what it says and doesn't. I will also talk Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and any other religion that comes along. If asked, I say simply that for myself I do not believe in organized religion and nothing is going to change that.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

48. and I would fight for your right to continue down your chosen path

because our system of laws used to protect you. (and me). With this administration and its incredibly damaging faith based initiatives, I am no longer sure that is the case. Seeing testimony of former federal workers who deliberately denied funding of buhdists, jewish groups, muslims and other religions, (heck, even christian sects with who they disagreed) convinces me yet again that there must be a complete separation of church and state, and that religions should be taxed as corporations.

I've read the bible many times, and have researched its tortured path from language to language, culture to culture, with changes, errors, editions and additions and subtractions taking place every time. I have come to the conclusion that Faith = superstition.

These superstitions grew over the ages because our earth-bound hominids had these wonderful tools called brains. At least in most cases, although some people today may debate even that statement.

We are curious animals. We seek answers and reasons and discoveries. If a closed box is on a table, for most of us, our first instinct is to open it. For others, their first instinct is to might blow it up (think Dick Cheney) or wish to seal it forever because it contains mortal sins. (think of any Baptist Church).

Because our brains are powerfully curious, if we don’t find rational answers easily, we make things up. Our brains find patterns where none existed. That one simple cranial mechanism caused all sorts of superstitions to arise, and eventually to become fool-blown religious movements. Only now has our technology grown to a point where real science can answer the hardest of questions.

Much of what we now know about the universe has been due to brilliant geniuses like Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Bohr, Fermi, not to mention brave philosophers who braved the wrath of the powers that were, to promote new perspectives and truths.

Partly because of the Cult of Christianity, and partly because we humans have fought too many faith-based wars, technology and discoveries have taken a longer path than necessary. Anti-science movements were incredibly strong from 500 AD through the middle of the 16th century. Unfortunately, this willful ignorance is raising its ugly head once again. That is precisely why our ability to point out their behavior of MSNBC and CNN today is critically important.

To really appreciate just how bad things are going and how they will affect our little iron rock – solely because of faith - you have to take the entire body of scientific, medical, engineering, analytical, and philosophical thought and set it aside, (many “believers” want to throw it out permanently) and replace it with a peculiar version of Christian dogma. While doing so, you must rely on “Faith” and ignore the religion’s bloody, dubious history, and the fact that its instruction manual was poorly and inaccurately translated and repeatedly interpreted from an archaic tongue so primitive that the creators of the language failed to discover or use punctuation marks or vowels.

[rebel with a cause]

54. First of all......

I believe in separation of religion and state. There is nothing in my post that said I did not. On the other hand, I believe if you attack religions as a whole, and want to do away with them, you are going to lose big time. Just as I don't believe in taking a child's favorite toy away from them, as long as it is not dangerous to them or you, then I do not believe in taking away a person's personal belief system as long as it is not dangerous to them or you.

As far as the right wing nuts, these are sociopaths in religious clothing. They are power hungry and looking for a way to dominate the world, and they are using religion to do so. I do not condom what they are doing or the religion that they preach. I do not condom even those that follow them. But you know what, even my sister who goes to the SB church is a democrat, and although she is strongly a pro-lifer she votes against these people. I cannot/will not condemn all those with religious beliefs just because of those in power now, if we do we will 1) play into the right wingers hands 2) cause even the liberal base to come apart 3)lose all hope of regaining control over this country and saving it from the right wingers. I will not be a part of that.

I do not believe that science can answer every question that arises. There are things in this universe that may never be explained and some scientist will tell you that. I don't think they are explained by religion either, some things are just unexplainable. As for me, I live on when I shouldn't. And because of that and my aching heart, I will now leave this conversation.

[conscious evolution]

69. I like the way you put this in words

"While doing so, you must rely on “Faith” and ignore the religion’s bloody, dubious history, and the fact that its instruction manual was poorly and inaccurately translated and repeatedly interpreted from an archaic tongue so primitive that the creators of the language failed to discover or use punctuation marks or vowels."

If you don't mind,I have the perfect person to gobsmack with this nugget of truth.

[dogday]

35. But there is no bashing of religion

on this board, oh no sir... Every time someone makes that comment, I think of threads like these that actually call God a Dickhead... Why must we accept every other group or community and not this one?

[Alcibiades]

60. Except that God's will is usually determined by someone else

Which means that the person expressing a belief about God's will is not usually expressing a free belief that is the product of their own experiences, but one which has been imposed upon them by their culture. Which means that powerful men, priests (ministers, in this context), are free to manipulate such persons. If I hold their erroneous beliefs to be sacrosanct, I will not try to disillusion them. This does, however, have consequences for a democracy. Democracy relies on a free marketplace of ideas as a means to discover truth. A rational public engages in a public discourse that will arrive at some approximation of the truth.

Thus, it is a serious problem for democratic theory, and extant democracies, when people go about holding beliefs that are not arrived at by reason and not not susceptible to rational argumentation. So long as these are purely private beliefs, however, the public consequences are limited. If they encroach into politics, however, you're in serious trouble. What if creationists are in charge of environmental science, of medicine? What if believers in a chosen ethnic tribe are put in charge of anti-discrimination? Opponents of women's rights put in charge of family planning? Believers in witchcraft put in charge of the criminal justice system? Believers in revelation and the Apocalypse in charge of foreign policy?

In this day and age, the stakes are simply too high to suffer the promulgation of dangerous beliefs in magic. These are beliefs that are inimical to the lives of a free people. Jehovah is just as silly as Thor or Zeus--it is only the power of custom that prevents most folks from recognizing that.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. great post. I totally agree

a vibrant democracy MUST have a free exchange of ideas and search for solutions without damaging preconceptions, concocted by a few religious leaders.

Anything less and we find ourselves back in what Wil and Ariel Durant called the Dark Ages, where religious beliefs controlled everything. If you picked the wrong sect, may your god help you, assuming you got out of prison. The german attacks on women in many towns were directly due to the belief that women were inherently evil. hundreds of thousands died of torture. More than 40,000 (possibly more) children died or were put into slavery because some religious leaders were happy to screw with their minds and convinced them that a Children's crusade would save jerusalem from the evil saracen horde (aka Muslims). They marched and gathered more kids, and tried to walk to jerusalem to fight the caliphate. never made it. This was known as the Fourth Crusade or the Children's Crusade. (A total of 12 or 14 crusades took place, all of them disasters in the name of some god)

This is the history we must grasp and contend with, when we decide to face some very real problems in our society. Heading back to religious infiltration of our society is one step closer to the the second coming. of the Dark Ages, I mean.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. Once Again, This Post Is A Display Of Intolerance.

You say Jehovah is as silly as Thor or Zeus. The problem is that you are saying your statement as fact when it is nothing more than simply your opinion. Your opinion carries no more weight or validity than those who believe otherwise.

The fact that you want to belittle and mock those that believe differently than you do is exactly what makes one intolerant and bigoted.

You think you are right here, but you are not.

You don't believe in God. That is your right and your choice. But you have no further legitimacy in your opinion than those who do believe in God. That is why we all must be tolerant of each others beliefs. It is ignorant and small-minded to do anything else.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

67. And if I want to believe in the easter bunny and the great pumpkin?

and force all kids in the local school district to pay homage to those two all seeing, all powerful, all knowing gods? The Great Pumpkin sees you not just when you are sleeping, but he can enter your computer and read your mind through your fingertips. Trust me, it is true! The Great Pumpkin would not only outwrestle that muslim god, but would take down JC and his dad in the first round, pinning them on their backs. That is how great the great pumpkin god is.

or what if I believed in satanic forces, and again brainwashed kids that doing evil is the path to freedom? Where would your tolerance go?

There is only one person being intolerant here, and it ain't us. Again, point out just one statement of mine, concerning the worst mindsets of the religious reich in this country, and I will be glad to reconsider. But, simply pointing fingers and labeling us as bigoted because we don't follow your fairy tales, and think that they damage our country is not the way to do it.

[Sydnie]

18. Makes you wonder just how horrible those people

(and some where kids) who died must have been for GOD to smite them like that, doesn't it? I mean, why did the people that died die and those that didn't live? Were they horrible people? Even if they weren't praying for themselves weren't their best friends (who were right next to them and lived through it) praying for all of them, collectively, or were they selfish and just praying for themselves to survive?

And what about those houses that were destroyed and yet their neighbors houses were just fine?

I heard that and shook my head. That statement, coupled with the statement that the parking lot looked worse than any war picture she had ever seen, sent me over the edge. Yes, the cars were tossed about and some came to rest on top of each other, but there were no bodies, no pools of blood, no rising smoke, no disconnected body parts to be matched to the body they were ripped from were apparent in the shots of that parking lot that I see on my TV. Perhaps she has been watching a different war than I have because I see those things in the "war pictures" that I see.

Boggles the mind.

[piesRsquare]

22. Once upon a time...

...there was a horrible rain storm in a rather small town. The place was flooding. The floodwaters were rising. People were evacuating. Except one man, who remained at his house. The man stood on his porch, the floodwaters rising up fast.

Neighbors hollered at him, "Why aren't you evacuating? Can't you see the floodwaters rising?!"

"I'm not worried," declared the man. "God will save me!"

Soon the floodwaters were up to the man's knees. A group of people evacuating in a row-boat saw him, and hollered for him to get in. "No, no," he said. "God will save me!" The people rowed away, as the floodwaters were continuing to rise.

Before he knew it, the floodwaters were up to the man's chest, and still rising. Another row-boat came by. "Get in! Get in!" its occupants shouted to the man. "No, no!" he cried. "God will save me!" He refused to get into the boat, so the group finally rowed away to save themselves.

Not much later, the man was on his roof, for the floodwaters had swallowed his house--and were still rising! A helicopter appeared overhead, and approached to rescue him from his roof. "Climb in!" the pilot yelled. "There isn't much time!" But the man would not budge. "God will save me! God will save me!" Finally, the pilot had no choice but to leave him on his roof.

The floodwaters were rising...and rising! There was no one left in the town but the man, shouting as he was immersed in water, "I have no fear, for God will save me!"

Sure enough...the man drowned.

When he got to Heaven, the man approached God and said, "God, I had so much faith in you! I truly believed that you would save me! Why, God, why, did you not save me from the flood when my faith in you was so strong and steadfast?"

To which God replied: "I sent you two boats and a helicopter! What more did you want?!"

:evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

23. Then God is a dickhead.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. I was raised Catholic...

during a very interesting time -- I got both pre-Vatican II teaching and post-VII. The first several years of my schooling left me with the sense that "God" wasn't such a nice guy. In fact he seemed downright petulant, arrogant, meanspirited, and vindictive. I wasn't all that hot on him, to be honest. It didn't make sense to me -- the guy who supposedly created Yosemite, the Pacific ocean, and the platypus couldn't possibly be such a "dickhead" (as you so succinctly put it).

Thankfully, I saw through the religious bullcrap pretty early on and came to my own conclusions about who/what "God" is and isn't.

And it sure doesn't involve "God" using an atmospherical event to "bless" one person while "punishing" another.

[Forkboy]

33. I'm glad you didn't get sucked into the void

:)

[silverlib]

28. It's just words...

and your experiment will work. It reminds me of an old parable about a family going to church with their community to pray for rain. Their six-year old picked up her umbrella to take it to the service. They asked her why she was bringing her umbrella. "Well," she said, "if we pray for rain and God hears our prayer, I'm going to need it."

The adults didn't really believe, they were just indoctrinated to go through the motion. It's what is expected of them.

[rebel with a cause]

46. Heard the same parable when I was a child.

It related to having the faith of a child. As you grow older you forget that faith and only go through the motions that are expected of you, and think that this will protect you from.......whatever.

[Jo March]

29. "If you guys flush, that is" - wow. There's no stereotyping going on there

Nope. Not at all.

I guess all of us Alabama people should learn stuff from posters like you. What's a toilet, anyway?

:eyes:

Your words are ignorant and hateful. What is the point of your post after all of the suffering that has gone on the state of Alabama since yesterday's storms? What is the point? "Sorry about the death and destruction but, by the way, you guys are all ignorant and unsanitary and backwards"?

Nice.

:thumbsdown:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. a device created by Sir T. Crapper, of London

it connects a water supply be means of a pipe, and allows a person to . . .

oh, you were joking?

[Jo March]

40. DUers from Alabama thank you

'Cause we're all so ignorant, you know.

:eyes:

[Mad_Dem_X]

51. Good post. n/t

[Neecy]

34. Here's what they should pray for...

An adequate early warning system. The same front spawned tornadoes in Kansas and Missouri and there was one - ONE - fatality in those two states.

An MSNBC reporter asked Jeff Sessions yesterday if the warning system in Alabama was adequate given the high death toll and he breezily waved the question away...."We'll try to learn from this" and whatnot. There's no way that a tornado in the middle of the day, when people are awake and alert, should have such a high death toll. Something is very wrong with their emergency procedures there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. God can't afford a phone to send "messages"? Pass the basket to avoid tornados.

And, considering the amount of dough the preachers collect "for God", *HE* really should consider hiring a new accountant.

[0rganism]

37. God as serial killer: He'll get us all someday...

Our only hope is to breed faster than He can knock us off! We'll pretend to like Him in churches of various denominations, lull Him into a false sense of security with our petty internal struggles, so maybe He won't notice our increasing numbers and technology. Then, when we are at last strong enough, we will overcome death itself and dethrone this mass murderering autocrat. Viva la Revolucion!

[blues90]

58. I always thought these were and act of nature

God had nothing to do with it , I am so sick of the God thing attached to everything including war and I am not a religous person but give me break with the god thing . It's a fear based deal .

[unsavedtrash]

61. Alabama born and raised and I have never said tornado's were a message from god.

Thanks for lumping everyone in the state together.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

65. everyone quoted ON MSNBC and CNN

mentioned god and their belief. Several stated that god saved them because of their prayers.
I never implied that every alabama resident believes in the infallibility of ancient fairy tales. Now, back to the tale of Sir Crapper. . . .

[unsavedtrash]

66. "It seems as though every single person in Alabama is convinced"

This is why I thought you meant everyone in Alabama. Got it now that you meant on the news.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

68. yeah, my bad for not explaining it initally.

but the coverage of the accident scenes pissed me off.

[genie_weenie]

63. I would only be upset if the Act of God defense allowed

insurance companies to not pay out on claims for loss of life and property. Otherwise people can believe the tornadoes were caused by an angry god (I'm guessing Thor?).

But just because people believe it doesn't make it so.

Now why god would need to punish people on earth is beyond me, after all he has all of eternity to cast them into hell to be chewed forever in satan's mouth...

[MountainLaurel]

70. Don't count it out

On several occasions where dams broke because of a company's negligence (I'm thinking specifically of Buffalo Creek, but I'm sure there have been others), the company claimed that it couldn't be liable to the families of those who had died and whose lives were destroyed because the rain was an act of God.

[genie_weenie]

72. Well, that would be exceptionally crappy.

Insurance is a scam.

[Ediacara]

73. Locking

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