WOW! "Blood, huh?" said Ashcroft-As Knox College Students Tell Him To "Answer The Fucking Question"

[kpete]

Thanks to Elsinora for exposing what Ashcroft's defense against war crimes will be:
The Senate reservations, and apples and oranges.

John Ashcroft Yelled at Me Tonight. No Joke.
by Elsinora
Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:40:46 PM PDT

.............

Knox College is a liberal arts college, in every sense of the word "liberal." Out of approximately 1400 students, the Knox College Republicans can claim only six members. Although we're a tiny college, we attract very prestigious Democrats to come speak: Barack Obama, Stephen Colbert, and Bill Clinton were our last three commencement speakers. (This year Madeleine Albright will be commencement speaker.) Not to be outdone, this year the College Republicans managed to raise $15,000 to entice Ashcroft to come speak.

.............................

Finally, I got to ask my question about waterboarding--and the result was, of course, the reason for this diary's title:

ME: First off, Mr. Ashcroft, I'd like to apologize for the rudeness of some of my fellow students. It was uncalled for--we can disagree civilly, we don't need that. (round of applause from the audience, and Ashcroft smiles) I have here in my hand two documents. One of them, you know, is the text of the United Nations Convention against Torture, which, point of interest, says nothing about "lasting physical damage"...

ASHCROFT: (interrupting) Do you have the Senate reservations to it?

ME: No, I don't. Do you happen to know what they are?

ASHCROFT: (angrily) I don't have them memorized, no. I don't have time to go around memorizing random legal facts. I just don't want these people in the audience to go away saying, "He was wrong, she had the proof right in her hand!" Because that's not true. It's a lie. If you don't have the reservations, you don't have anything. Now, if you want to bring them another time, we can talk, but...

ME: Actually, Mr. Ashcroft, my question was about this other document. (laughter and applause) This other document is a section from the judgment of the Tokyo War Tribunal. After WWII, the Tokyo Tribunal was basically the Nuremberg Trials for Japan. Many Japanese leaders were put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity, including torture. And among the tortures listed was the "water treatment," which we nowadays call waterboarding...

ASHCROFT: (interrupting) This is a speech, not a question. I don't mind, but it's not a question.

ME: It will be, sir, just give me a moment. The judgment describes this water treatment, and I quote, "the victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach." One man, Yukio Asano, was sentenced to fifteen years hard labor by the allies for waterboarding American troops to obtain information. Since Yukio Asano was trying to get information to help defend his country--exactly what you, Mr. Ashcroft, say is acceptible for Americans to do--do you believe that his sentence was unjust? (boisterous applause and shouts of "Good question!")

ASHCROFT: (angrily) Now, listen here. You're comparing apples and oranges, apples and oranges. We don't do anything like what you described.

ME: I'm sorry, I was under the impression that we still use the method of putting a cloth over someone's face and pouring water down their throat...

ASHCROFT: (interrupting, red-faced, shouting) Pouring! Pouring! Did you hear what she said? "Putting a cloth over someone's face and pouring water on them." That's not what you said before! Read that again, what you said before!

ME: Sir, other reports of the time say...

ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read what you said before! (cries of "Answer her fucking question!" from the audience) Read it!

ME: (firmly) Mr. Ashcroft, please answer the question.

ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read it back!

ME: "The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach."

ASHCROFT: (shouting) You hear that? You hear it? "Forced!" If you can't tell the difference between forcing and pouring...does this college have an anatomy class? If you can't tell the difference between forcing and pouring...

ME: (firmly and loudly) Mr. Ashcroft, do you believe that Yukio Asano's sentence was unjust? Answer the question. (pause)

ASHCROFT: (more restrained) It's not a fair question; there's no comparison. Next question! (loud chorus of boos from the audience)

MUCH more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/23/04046/3938/224/501151

[crikkett]

1. Fantastic Dialog! For others- the "blood huh" reference was to

protesters who stood in the audience with red paint on their hands, trying to distrupt Ashcroft while he delivered his speech. Ashcroft tried to confront the hecklers and I'd say that from the description, he did a reasonable job of it.

I'm guessing the 'bloody hands' trick is getting too old to be effective.

[kpete]

6. "Blood," one student responded.

"Blood," one student responded.

"Blood, huh?" said Ashcroft. "Seems these young folks think they have blood on their hands, and want to show it off to everyone. Come on, take a good look at them!" The students continued to hold up their hands, so Ashcroft went on with his speech.

..............

..........About halfway through his speech, the red-handed protesters stood up in unison and put black hoods over their heads. "Sit down!" barked an old man from town. "We can't see!"

"Neither can they!" replied Ashcroft. "They've got bags on their heads!"

He continued: "But while we're on the subject, I'd like to say a few things about these kids. They don't want to see. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. They don't want to see."

"They can still hear!" someone retorted from the back of the audience before being shushed. Ashcroft ignored the outburst and went on talking about how 9/11 necessitated a change in the role of the Attorney General from a prosecutor of crimes to a preventer of crimes.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/23/04046/3938/224/501151

[bdamomma]

30. the arrogance of the Ashcroft just drips from him doesn't it??

the arrogance of these thugs is stunning, I hope that arrogance that they possess gets to them someday.

[MadMaddie]

97. Same arrogance as the Nazi's and the Japanese

There will be no peace for these war crimnials. Their perfectly constructed bubble is falling apart.

Bravo for these kids....this is the beginning, these kids do know right from wrong. They are calling the crimanls liars to their faces.

[Beam Me Up]

40. Once again, as always, it comes down to the official theory of 9/11

to justify everything -- torture, invasion without provocation 'war on terror', the suspension of civil liberties -- not to mention the greatest transfer of wealth in global history.

Pull the cover off 9/11 and they have NOTHING to justify their policies.

[bazoona]

63. Ashcroft ignored the outburst and went on talking about how 9/11

necessitated a change in the role of the Attorney General from a prosecutor of crimes to a preventer of crimes.

I think he should have said "purveyor of crimes".:puke:

[krkaufman]

102. Ashcroft would have been more accurate in saying how 9/11 ...

... changed the role of Attorney General from a prosecutor of crimes to a perpetrator of crimes.

[LVjinx]

95. Awesome. President Hillary or Barack need to try every one of these people as war criminals.

"Executive privilege" be damned. Bush, Cheney, and their cohorts need to answer for what they've done. Maybe THEN the rest of the world will see that America actually believes what it says, and doesn't consider itself excluded from what it says.

[Divine Discontent]

104. I expect Obama's Administration, with the assistance of the Congress, led by Democrats

to be strong enough to seek penalties on all these warmonger torturers. Sure, some say its a dream, or that he will do nothing like that, and just walk the rope - but when he gets in, and his staff reviews what's been done (praying the election isn't rigged and he is safe) that they'll have no alternative but to arrest many.

[Gothmog]

115. bush will issue blanket pardons before leaving office

bush will issue blanket pardons for anyone involved in the use of torture. You can count on it.

What is interesting is whether bush can pardon himself. This is not clear but I expect that bush will try to pardon himself.

Another interesting issue is whether these pardons affect prosecution by other countries for war crimes. Germany and other countries claim universal jurisdiction and may seek to try ashcroft and others for war crimes. The pardon by a us president will not affect such prosectutions.

[Land Shark]

105. great story, but it simply doesn't matter what "reservations" were made to the treaty

under the international law doctrine of jus cogens, the prohibitions against torture, genocide, slavery, and inhumane treatment of prisoners of war are binding on ALL nations WITHOUT regard to whether a treaty was signed or not, EVEN IN TIMES OF WAR. i.e. No exceptions.

Other than the implicit assumption of the dialogue above that implies a "reservation" defense might exist, this is a great student question and dialog for Ashcroft.

[KeepItReal]

2. Ashcroft, if the subject has his hands bound or restrained, "poured" is equal to "forced"

Using choice of words to describe torture ain't gonna save your asses.

[zbdent]

13. many of the people who support Ashcroft's thinking

don't realize that they can turn the channel if the TV stuff is too "liberal" for them ...

[trof]

3. K&R Very good!

[Happyhippychick]

4. Is this available on Youtube?

[frickaline]

113. yes

part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_VlxHonycp4

part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VC-yh7CPcUw

..its not the whole thing, but at least its some. It doesn't contain the text from above however. I wish it did but they must have run out of battery.

[spanone]

5. these questions should be coming from our 'concerned' congress

[hisownpetard]

20. And from today's crop of "journalists," as well, who all seem to have attended the Rita Cosby/

Geraldo Rivera School of Pseudo-Journalism.

Thank God for KO and Rachel Maddow.

[tblue37]

59. No, what they attend are "barbecues"--i.e., friendly

get-togethers with the Republicans in power whom they are supposed to be covering rather than sucking up to. They are doing the same with McCain this campaign season--going easy on him and covering for his outrageous statements and behavior because they don't want to risk not being invited to the next barbecue.

[Generic Other]

7. BRAVO for a brave question from one of DU's toughest

interrogators. Wish you could have waterboarded the old fart. See if he could distinguish the distinction between the techniques of the Japanese and American governments.

[madrchsod]

8. knox college students?

i guess i underestimated the students down there in galesburg...


http://www.knox.edu/

A nationally ranked, private, liberal arts college - Knox College

[Gothmog]

116. My middle child goes to Knox and was at this speech

Knox is a very nice college. My middle child was at this speech and was amused at how annoyed ashcroft was at the end of the questions and answers

[gratuitous]

9. Sounds like Mr. Ashcroft is going to need a lawyer of his own

And he appears to realize that. Mother of Mercy, could this be the end of Rico?

[hisownpetard]

21. He needs a lawyer and a doctor, to handle his elevated BP.

[leveymg]

49. He needs a lawyer, alright. He hasn't read either the Treaty, the Act, or the Reservations

There are no exceptions in the Senate Reservatons for waterboarding as ordered by the Bush Administration. Read them for yourself, even if Ashcroft couldn't be bothered to do so: http://www.umn.edu/humanrts/usdocs/tortres.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


U.S. reservations, declarations, and understandings, Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel,
Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, Cong. Rec. S17486-01 (daily ed., Oct. 27, 1990).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





I. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following reservations:

(1) That the United States considers itself bound by the obligation under Article 16 to prevent "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment," only insofar as the term "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" means the cruel, unusual and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and/or Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States.

(2) That pursuant to Article 30(2) the United States declares that it does not consider itself bound by Article 30(1), but reserves the right specifically to agree to follow this or any other procedure for arbitration in a particular case. (Sec. 30(1) refers to jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice as the arbitrator of disputes between signatories to the Convention, see http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm )

II. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following understandings, which shall apply to the obligations of the United States under this Convention:

(1)(a) That with reference to Article 1, the United States understands that, in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering and that mental pain or suffering refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from: (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality.

(b) That the United States understands that the definition of torture in Article 1 is intended to apply only to acts directed against persons in the offender's custody or physical control.

(c) That with reference to Article 1 of the Convention, the United States understands that "sanctions" includes judicially imposed sanctions and other enforcement actions authorized by United States law or by judicial interpretation of such law. Nonetheless, the United States understands that a State Party could not through its domestic sanctions defeat the object and purpose of the Convention to prohibit torture.

(d) That with reference to Article 1 of the Convention, the United States understands that the term "acquiescence" requires that the public official, prior to the activity constituting torture, have awareness of such activity and thereafter breach his legal responsibility to intervene to prevent such activity.

(e) That with reference to Article 1 of the Convention, the United States understands that noncompliance with applicable legal procedural standards does not per se constitute torture.

(2) That the United States understands the phrase, "where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture," as used in Article 3 of the Convention, to mean "if it is more likely than not that he would be tortured."

(3) That it is the understanding of the United States that Article 14 requires a State Party to provide a private right of action for damages only for acts of torture committed in territory under the jurisdiction of that State Party.

(4) That the United States understands that international law does not prohibit the death penalty, and does not consider this Convention to restrict or prohibit the United States from applying the death penalty consistent with the Fifth, Eighth and/or Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, including any constitutional period of confinement prior to the imposition of the death penalty.

(5) That the United States understands that this Convention shall be implemented by the United States Government to the extent that it exercises legislative and judicial jurisdiction over the matters covered by the Convention and otherwise by the state and local governments. Accordingly, in implementing Articles 10-14 and 16, the United States Government shall take measures appropriate to the Federal system to the end that the competent authorities of the constituent units of the United States of America may take appropriate measures for the fulfillment of the Convention.

III. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following declarations:

(1) That the United States declares that the provisions of Articles 1 through 16 of the Convention are not self-executing.

(2) That the United States declares, pursuant to Article 21, paragraph 1, of the Convention, that it recognizes the competence of the Committee against Torture to receive and consider communications to the effect that a State Party claims that another State Party is not fulfilling its obligations under the Convention. It is the understanding of the United States that, pursuant to the above mentioned article, such communications shall be accepted and processed only if they come from a State Party which has made a similar declaration.

IV. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following proviso, which shall not be included in the instrument of ratification to be deposited by the President:
The President of the United States shall not deposit the instrument of ratification until such time as he has notified all present and prospective ratifying parties to this Convention that nothing in this Convention requires or authorizes legislation, or other action, by the United States of America prohibited by the Constitution of the United States as interpreted by the United States.

[hisownpetard]

64. Yeah. That's almost as bad as voting in support of the NIE without ever having read it.

[Duppers]

114. uh? I thought the NIE disproved boosh's lies

correct me if I'm wrong.

[midnight]

65. I have saved this. It is quite a nice bit of information.... Thanks

for being so smart and posting this for us here at D.U.

[Mozcram]

101. Thank you so much

That's great of you

[Gothmog]

117. Col Larry Wilkerson (Powell's COS) has predicted that some bushies will be prosecuted

Collin Powell's chief of staff, Col. Larry Wlkerson, has predicted that some bushies may be prosectued and that he would recommend that ashcroft, rumsfeld, Yoo, gone-zales and others not travel outside of the US except to Saudi Arabia or Israel.

[myrna minx]

10. K&R n/t

[zbdent]

11. funny ... "I don't have time to go around memorizing random legal facts."

and yet ... you were the Attorney General, who apparently was making sure that EVERY Democrat needed have absolute knowledge of every law because they would be brought up on ethics charges ... and yet, a Republican operative can illegally tape a conversation and get away with it ...

[gratuitous]

19. Odd thing for Ashcroft to say, wasn't it?

After all, he was the one who brought up the "Senate reservations" in the first place. Of course, with the luxury of pondering his bizarre statements and not having the pressure of standing up in an auditorium full of people, I can come up with a pertinent prefatory question: "So, Mr. Ashcroft, are you saying that these so-called 'Senate reservations' carry the same force and effect as treaty law? Because the Constitution itself designates treaty law and the Constitution as the highest legal authority in the country. I'm not sure any alleged 'Senate reservations' rise to that level, do they?"

[King Coal]

12. Knox College Anatomy 101, Instructor John Ashcroft.

Let's have a little experiment, where we waterboard the teacher, and see if we can tell the difference between pouring and forcing. I mean, this is liberal arts, after all.

Kpete, your my hero.

[Gman]

14. Sounds like somebody struck a real raw nerve on war crimes

Sounds like a war crimes conviction and 15 years hard labor is in the forefront of Ashcroft's mind and he really gets defensive.

He shouldn't worry, though. He'll get his pardon like everyone else in January.

[abq e streeter]

15. All right!!---my old school...had great times at Knox from '68-'71

and a grand total of six college reubliklans. Ha! ----- Knox grads from my days there include Center For American Progress CEO ( and former Clinton Chief of Staff) John Podesta, and Pulitzer Prize winning NY Times reporter Barry Bearak ( recently released from a Zimbabwe jail after several days in custody on trumped up charges from the Mugabe government). I'm proud to be able to say both Barry and John were good friends ( Barry especially; was one of my best friends there) ; both of 'em extraordinarily intelligent, and just all around good guys...I assume John was instrumental in getting people like Bill Clinton etc. to speak at the commencements..........Wonderful to see the students there accusing Asscroft to his face of being a war criminal.

[Vilis Veritas]

16. LOL - "not a fair question" Well here is a fair picture...

This is an old pic of how to FORCE water by POURING it in their mouth. Ashcroft is a war crminal.

[Solly Mack]

17. Just another war criminal...just like the rest

"In its reservations to the Convention against Torture, the United States claims to be bound by the obligation to prevent “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment” only insofar as the term means the cruel, unusual and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Furthermore, U.S. reservations say that mental pain or suffering only refers to prolonged mental harm from: (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the use or threat of mind altering substances; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) that another person will imminently be subjected to the above mistreatment."

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm

but

The MCA of 2006 did change the wording -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/cheney/military_commissions_act.pdf


‘‘(II) as to conduct occurring after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, the term ‘serious and non-transitory mental harm (which need not be prolonged)’ shall replace the term ‘prolonged mental harm’ where it appears."


However, the MCA of 2006 also granted Bush the ability to define what is and isn't torture, broadened the defense built into the Detainee Treatment Act that allows the guilty to use as a "legitimate" defense, "they said it was legal (I was following orders)", made the protections for the guilty retroactive back to 1997, said anyone held by the US couldn't use the Geneva Conventions as a basis for having human rights...and a lot of other fucked up things...

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/29145res20070322.html


Steven Bradbury, another torture enabler and promoter from within the cesspool known as the DOJ,said: (regarding water-boarding)

"BRADBURY: And may, I'm sorry, Mr. King, may I point out, though, I don't want the committee to lose sight, there are new statutes on the books and one of them is a new statute that cruel and inhuman treatment, war crime, added by the Military Commissions Act in the fall of 2006. That's a crime that took this definition from the torture statute and changed it. It eliminated the prolonged mental harm requirement and made it serious, but non-transitory mental harm, which need not be prolonged. That's a new statute, became effective in the fall of 2006, the Department has not analyzed this procedure under that statute and as I think you can tell from the change in the language that statute would present a more difficult question, significantly more difficult question with respect to this particular…."

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/the_calculus_of_torture.php


See their defense? It wasn't illegal when they did it....(the assumption being they don't still do it)

But keeping in mind that Bush gets to define what is and isn't torture and the claim that water-boarding isn't torture never had any merit - but is one assertion the Bush admin. is banking on

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. So Ashcroft, I see it depends upon what your definition of 'is' is.

[defendandprotect]

22. How concerned is our corporate mass media with TORTURE . .. ???

[NewJeffCT]

24. It's covered nightly on the network news, no?

I mean, this is important stuff... you'd think it would be highlighted every evening on the news.

[defendandprotect]

27. I was checking because I don't watch it ---

unless Olbermann does it or Jon Stewart --- I don't see it.

I also doubt that there were any well-directed questions at the "debates" . . . ??? !!!

[NewJeffCT]

32. I don't watch the nightly news, either

I was being sarcastic on torture. you'd think it would be covered nightly, along with all the other crimes & scandals...

[defendandprotect]

33. Yes --

I would think that the Sunday shows should be full of it and demands to close down our
prisons and let these people have trials ---

Bless the lawyers who have tried to help these people ---
they have to have a great deal of courage because they are also intimidated and threatened.

[The Blue Flower]

23. Ashcroft is very worried, I think

nt

[NewJeffCT]

25. I get the feeling

that on his way out of office, Bush will pardon everybody in his administration for "crimes they may have committed" and they'll use their media power to sell it as "we don't want them subjected to a partisan witch hunt!"

[lovuian]

42. They can try it but it won't fly once they are out they need to

go to Paraguay... and even then that might not be far enough

[NewJeffCT]

46. who will prosecute them?

especially if they've all been pardoned?

[gimberly]

67. Will impeachment be an International effort? I can't wait to see how 2009 goes for W.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

48. Sounds like their MO

[babylonsister]

26. Or feeling very guilty. nt

[bdamomma]

28. Mr. Ashcroft still in denial huh about the initiation of torture.

History will not judge you to kindly sir.

ASHCROFT: (angrily) Now, listen here. You're comparing apples and oranges, apples and oranges. We don't do anything like what you described.



I hope someday you will eat those words that this country does not torture. stupid criminals.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

29. let the eagle soar

[Art_from_Ark]

94. More like

Make the eagle sore

[KharmaTrain]

31. Knox College...Truly In The Heartland

Just for those who aren't familiar with the geography (which is most of us)...Knox is in Galesburg...far Western Illinois (more Iowa to us city critters) and in what some would say is the most "red" portion of the state. It's long had a reputation as a top-tier liberal arts school and, as posted above, isn't afraid to put the emphasis on liberal.

Ironically, my son attends a similar college...this one in the ruby red Chicago burb of Naperville. During the recent mock elections the college repugnicans had to bribe students to participate with free food while the Democratic caucus had to be held over two days cause the crowds were too big. The joke is that the kids from the nearby Christian College sneak out to party at my son's school...and then they enroll.

Cheers and kudos to Knox College!!

:patriot:

[Burma Jones]

73. Yep, I graduated from Knox, and you don't get any more heartland than Galesburg

Complete with bitter laid off factory workers....For my friends from Galesburg.....FUCK MAYTAG

[frogmarch]

34. Wonderful! K&R n/t

[speedoo]

35. Elsinora, you rock!

Thanks kpete for another great post.

K&R, of course.

[Leftist Agitator]

36. There is a special place in hell for these fucking war criminals.

Reading this makes me regret opposing the death penalty, I must say.

:(

[timtom]

37. Excellent!

If I may interject a minor correction....

"Prone" is the body lying face down.

"Supine" is the body lying face up.

[Uncle Joe]

38. I wish I could've been there.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.:thumbsup:

[Vanje]

39. "Let the Eagle Pour" nt

[King Coal]

89. LOL! Good one!

[lovuian]

41. Ashcroft has met the TRUTH and the god fearing man

LIES

He is a War Criminal and KNOWS it

[daleo]

43. It's like smothering vs choking

Ashcroft is splitting verbal hairs, and would be laughed out of a real court of law for doing so.

It is like drawing some sort of irrelevant distinction between smothering someone to death and choking someone to death.

[Ganja Ninja]

44. Apparently its not water boarding if a fire hose isn't involved.

Let's hear him try that one on the judges in the Hague.

[Ian_rd]

45. If Ashcroft is truly a Christian, then he must dream of his future in Hell.

[Enthusiast]

79. He is a Christian in his own mind and

probably a man of compassion. In my opinion he is just another of these religious freaks with morals only when it suits them. They quickly find faults of others but never question their own motives.

[Hekate]

96. The torturers of the Inquisition were "good Christians"--did it all in the name of Christ

John Ashcroft may sleep well at night, sure in his conscience.

Then again, he may not. We can only hope.

Hekate

[Supersedeas]

47. hanging desperately to the difference between pouring continously and forcing--some legal minds we

have in the Bushist Admin

[Freedom Train]

50. I'll spread this far and wide.

Kicked and recommended!

I want to see this worthless, sub-human piece of shit in prison - YESTERDAY.

[Usrename]

51. Elsinora, you are my newest hero!

:patriot:

[pattmarty]

52. Hooray for you, and FUCK John Ashcroft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Time for change]

53. Wow, great interview!

[FlyingSquirrel]

54. The force is called "gravity". N fucking T.

[bad_robbie]

56. Ashcroft attended the wrong class . . .

He confused Physics and Anatomy.

[keith the dem]

58. Exactly!!!

These fuckers apparently added the "force of gravity" to the list of science they don't believe:

Evolution
Global Warming
Gravity
?
?

[Shipwack]

77. Gravity is just a theory...

... like evolution.

[BobTheSubgenius]

85. Actually......

....scientists have said that evolution is actually better understood than gravity. Just sayin'...... :D

And btw, so there's no misunderstanding....I'm convinced of both. *LOL*

[lynnertic]

90. that's great!

can i use it?

[FlyingSquirrel]

99. Be my guest

Just statin' the obvious

[davekriss]

55. BEE-YOO-TI-FUL!!!

These war criminals should be harangued at every public appearance!

[pacalo]

57. Here's the link for the Galesburg Register article (w/video & photos)...

http://www.galesburg.com/education/college/x170774754

[kaybea]

60. Who would Jesus waterboard, Mr. Ashcroft?

[electropop]

61. When the Bush regime is finally held accountable,

there won't be a lot of people drawing a distinction between "pouring" and "forcing." They're all going to have a very long time to ponder their arrogance.

[bean fidhleir]

62. Clinton? Albright? Sounds DLC to me, not liberal (nt)

[midnight]

66. Sounds like Ashcroft is stuck with arguing with the student about

words....Forced vs poured.....

[Shae]

68. Wow! That's great stuff!!

Speaking engagements for former AG's don't pay like they used to.

:rofl:

Now they need to ask the same questions of Cheney.

[frogcycle]

69. My daughter went to Knox - here's a bit of trivia:

The fifth in the series of seven Lincoln-Douglas debates was held at Knox. The building, still there, on whose steps they stood is called "Old Main"

http://www.knox.edu/x11280.xml

[siligut]

70. Wow, good work!

Sounds like Ashcroft thought he could intimidate a college student with a condescending tone and bullshit. Glad he couldn’t.

[happydreams]

71. K&R Niiice work! This is a great case study in how the fascist swine

try to take you off message.

"You hear that? You hear it? 'Forced'..."

That's how they do it. They parse the meaning of words try to turn the discussion into a semantic squabble that goes nowhere.

This is fascism at its finest. It's also the norm in the courtroom. Pure unalloyed BULLSHIT drama to distract from the issue!

What would be cool is to followup at another time and argue that it was forced by any reasonable definition. "Mr. Ashcroft are you saying the victim has a choice between sucking in air or sucking in water? Without that choice it is forced, coerced treatment. BUT it takes time to think up a rebuttal to that kind of drama, time all to fleeting in these kinds of settings.

Ashcrofts hypothetical reply: You hear that, You hear it? "Victim" any of you legal eagles know that this was a de-tainee not a victim! You hear that? You hear it?

Way to stay on message.

[Burma Jones]

72. Well, as a very proud Knox Alumnus

I'm just going to have to send them a second donation this year.........

And this exchange sounds about right........

[dlfuller]

74. Let's tie his hands and then ask..

Bet he would think different if his hands were tied and then water "poured" into his mouth!

[DirtyDawg]

75. You see? You See?....

...the difference is that we don't 'force' water down their throats and nostrils...gravity does. So you can't blame us, you blame Issac Newton...or is it Mother Nature...or God...or whoever is responsible for that gravity law thing, but not us.

[lovuian]

78. See how delusional they are this is just like Nuremburg

with the War Criminals ...if thats his defense its a pour one

[malaise]

76. This is

Beautifuckingful. Bravo Knox College Student!!!

[samsingh]

80. what an asshole. republications are stupid abnoxious traitors

[micraphone]

81. It's all semantics

"forced"... "poured".. whats the diff? Poor stiff is still bound and covered and it's STILL torture.

Ummm no, according to Ashcroft it's just "enhanced interrogation technique".

OK no prob, move along, nothing to see here.

:puke:

[Bluenorthwest]

82. I want to vote for the asker of the questions....

To be the Democratic nominee. Can I?

[Shaztastic]

83. If you just say, "That's a lie" often enough, it becomes the truth!

[Dukkha]

84. "Let the lying soar!"

What an asshole. ZIt's good to see this trend where BushCo war criminals are getting very abrasive receptions on their little history revising tours thoughout campuses. Everyone can smell their bullshit and are calling them out on how much it stinks.

[BobTheSubgenius]

86. Almost every time I read the words of one of these depraved creatures...

....or, God forbid, hear them speak, I think to myself "Yup. That's the one I despise the most." Obviously, temporal proximity has a lot to do with it, but is there a word that sums up this...what? Phenomenon? Syndrome?

Perhaps it's just that they are all tied for that honour.

[malaise]

87. Bwaaaaaaaaaaah Ashcroft is about to receive

a KO award...worst person in the world.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

88. Parsing words

is what criminals do all the time. Having ones hands restrained and being tied in a prone position while water is "poured" over ones mouth and nose is in effect "forcing" water. Try it Mr. Ashcroft! It's fun. I think the former atty general needs to see someone being water-boarded - Like his pal GW Bush... Once you see it for yourself, you probably are not as anxious to protect the right to do it.

[The Wizard]

91. Who will be the first

of the Bush cartel to take the Herman Goering exit strategy?

[Ice-9]

92. Awesome!

The best part is when they're introducing him as a person of "great integrity" and "great judgment," and you can hear everyone in the background laughing. It's too bad that the video doesn't have his answer to her question. I wanted to see the steam coming out of his ears.

[Old and In the Way]

93. Better answer Ashcroft.

The same question is going to come up in your war-crimes trial.

[Rex]

98. Crisco Kid doesn't get it. He never will.

[Robeson]

100. Thanks kpete. As usual, you do great work...

...:thumbsup:

[usaftmo]

103. This is the same bozo

that lost the 2000 Missouri Senate election to a deceased person. His reward? Attorney General...the same position that Robert Kennedy once held; so much for upholding the dignity of that position.

Unfortunately I'm not surprised how out of touch he is with reality.

[Nostradammit]

106. Is gravity not a force in John Ashcroft's universe?

We will see justice yet.

[DUlover2909]

107. Ashcroft is a dangerous nut.

[mwb970]

108. Asscroft should be arrested and tried, just like all the others.

Worthless pig.

[Echo In Light]

109. Remember when he was on Daily Show? Audience applauded on command like drones...

Repeatedly. No protests heard. Blissfully unwary of who they were heaping praise on, apparently.

[greiner3]

110. Good thing the protesters weren't nude;

ashcroft would have really gotten upset!

[peacetalksforall]

111. Are there ary threads discussing how these people came up with

their future defense which is what AAshcroft was givng those students - and - does anyone think the Federalist Society had a hand in figuring out which words they were going to change and how it could be defended?

[The Call Up]

112. Great Questions!

It will be interesting to see if a new Democratic President, Senate, and Congress pursue the Bush Administration after they've left office? At that point they won't be in a position to grant themselves pardons, to stonewall Congress, and do anymore cover-up.

[Elsinora]

118. Just one caveat...

I'm the author of the DailyKos diary. Due to the overwhelming interest in the story, the local paper has posted a video of my exchange with Ashcroft about waterboarding on youtube. The actual exchange is close to my memory of it, but not quite the same--most notably, the phrase "apples and oranges" was never spoken. Please go watch the video, so you can see for yourself how it really went!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vjh_V19NM