"Another" FLDS post

[fed_up_mother]

If you want to see excellent coverage of this story, Larry King has the best coverage.

I just watched one of the ex FLDS women say that some of these women left their husbands (with kids) because their husbands would not turn over their underaged daughters to be married when the prophet decreed. I'm sure these are the men whose wives were turned over to other men that we hear about.

This made me sick.

[bgramochroi]

1. FLDS

If you want opinionated and slanderous coverage go to Larry King...HELLO...does anyone get the fact that the age of consent is 15 in this state? does anyone here get the fact that as long as the parents consent to 'marriage' that it is legal and the fact of the matter is that these people are NOT LEGALLY MARRIED??? 12 yrs old get pregnant all the time in this country! in fact 9 yrs old do too! beware!! big bother is on the hunt...Ruby Ridge, Wacco...now this...and in fact, the 'phone call' that triggered this was FALSE!! and that is being hushed up...we may not agree with the politics or lifestyle but who are we to JUDGE...judge not lest ye be judged...I do not personally agree with the lifestyle BUT who am I? these kids may live under what we in 'modern' society say is harsh and 'child abuse' these kids for the most part are law abiding and upstanding people...get over yourselves...I am in FULL SUPPORT OF THESE WOMEN!!and I PRAY TO GOD that they are not FORCED to confirm to what we consider NORMAL! that is wrong! god help those in charge right now making the decisions...
In my opinion Texas is actting in a FACIST nature because they are 'christian'...Christ did not call his people to behave this way! either way...

again...all people beware and take heed of what is going on...your children and lifestyle is NEXT...

blessings
Rev.Laura

[Raksha]

3. Enjoy your stay, Rev. Laura.

I have a feeling it will be a short one.

[ismnotwasm]

5. You're disgusting. n/t

[seabeyond]

6. they sexually abuse their boys too. rape them. is that good for you?

[LisaL]

16. The CPS worker testified, she

did not say the boys at the ranch were sexually abused.

[fed_up_mother]

19. She said there was no evidence

but a wider investigation will ensue. However, grown men are suing "the prophet" for sexual abuse.

[seabeyond]

20. that is not the ONLY person i listened to. i was willing to listen to the

actual people that have been able to escape and tell their tale. as another poster pointed out, there are law suits filed and people have gone to jail, though the victim surely dont think it abusive, i am sure

it just really angers me someone not in the situation just sure.... a person doesnt feel this treatment is abusive. just sure a little 12, 13, 14, 15 yr old innocent girls is just tickled to death to be fucked by an old man. his little play toy.

[kestrel91316]

31. Boys who are now men say they were sexually abused.

Why do you support child rape??

[Wizard777]

18. Oh dear lord. Is there anyone or anything at that compound that isn't being raped?

A dog, a cat, or even an ant crawling across the side walk. Are the adults allowed to consent sex?

[seabeyond]

21. i suppose you conveniently missed the thread earlier where one of the men that escaped is suing

for sexual molestation before all this happened.

[Wizard777]

23. Yeah, I did there's more to life than FLDS obsession.

[seabeyond]

25. then maybe instead of rolling eyes,you might ask about it n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3175095

[kestrel91316]

32. Still supporing and advocating child rape, I see......

[LisaL]

24. The fact that someone somewhere was abused does not mean

these boys who are in CPS custody were ever abused.
The CPS worker did not say the boys were abused, the claim was that they were removed because they were in danger of becoming the perpetrators.

[seabeyond]

26. she said the boys we not abused. or she said there was no evidence of it

i would have to look at the interview and hear what she said. i dont think you are going to give me an objective account.

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

22. Yes, generally the favoured sons of the prophet

[fed_up_mother]

8. Age of consent is sixteen with parental consent

Age of consent for LEGAL marriage is sixteen with a parent's permission. Emancipation can occur with a judge's permission, also.

However, these are sham marriages - not legal marriages. Therefore, the age of consent for SEX is SEVENTEEN. (Allowing for a three year's difference in age as not to prosecute teens having sex.) This is statutory rape if not outright ol' garden variety rape. :(

Parents CAN NOT turn over their minor daughters for sex with an older man. Would you support a parent prostituting her daughter?

And by the way, Ruby Ridge and Waco were conducted by the FEDERAL government and were travesties.

The state of Texas is going to get this right. I realize there's a lot of bias against this state (and often with good reason), but this time, these children are going to be protected, and their mothers will have a choice to live with them if they were not directly involved in abuse.

You can put that in writing.

Children's rights and women's rights go hand in hand. It's time people wake up to that fact.

[LisaL]

9. I think TX raised it from 14, didn't it?

Age of consent also varies from state to state.
It might be illegal, but I doubt these women think it's abuse, especially if the "prophet" said it's not.

[seabeyond]

11. pummeling the girls.... i doubt they think it abuse, especially if the prophet

tells them it isn't.

hm.....

we have testimony from both female and male being raped in those compounds... they think it is abuse. i cant decide what those within that dont have a voice think. but i can at least be respectful enough of those that have experienced and escaped and have shared with us how they felt the beatings and rapes were "abusive".

on edit: btw, having listened to you the last couple days, clever of you to let us know the insignificance with age of consent isnt very relevent since you suggest texas was just what... recently... 14 age of consent.

[LisaL]

13. CPS worker has testified, but nothing was reported

about any children who are at CPS custody now alleging abuse.

[seabeyond]

14. there have been a lot of x members, people that are out of it telling you what is happening

but when it doesnt fit agenda, then you chose to ignore. nothing will be enough proof to you of suffering. for whatever your agenda is, you must see fucking kids as an ok thing. excuse, justify, validate....

[kestrel91316]

34. Lizzy, use the brains God gave you. A pregnant 15-yr-old is

BY DEFINITION a rape victim.

[LisaL]

15. I am not implying anything.

Texas raised the age of consent to marry (with parental permission) from 14 to 16 in 2005.
It's simply a fact.

[kestrel91316]

35. If all these children got pregnant legally, how is it that the state is

able to claim abuse and all 400 attorneys for the children haven't claimed no abuse happened.

Somehow, I think the CFPS people and officers of the law and the judge know JUST A TINY BIT MORE about Texas law than you do........

[kestrel91316]

33. Whether or not the children know it is legally abuse or don't think

they have been abused is absolutely beside the point. In the same way that a retarded child who did not know the meaning of rape could be a rape victim.

Why do you still support child rape?

[kestrel91316]

30. The age of consent for marriage in TX is 18, unless the girl has signed

consent of parent(s) - then she can marry at 16. But none of these pregnant CHILDREN of the FLDS are legally married, so they are by definition RAPE victims.

Why do you support child rape?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. IMHO, this whole thing has been the slippiest of slopes. I abhor reports of what went on but on the

other hand, I too believe that the anonymous call was non-existent and they used it as "probable cause" to go in there and remove the children from their parents. My tinfoil hat, firmly in place, this fascist government (which it is), used this as a way of getting its foot in the door of everyone's homes. You see, its ok to ignore the Constitution because such horrible things took place there, so by the time they get to other homes (ie you're s smoker and smoking is dangerous for kids), it will eventually be accepted.

:tinfoilhat:

[seabeyond]

39. and in the meantime, this morning some child is waking to rape, abuse. a baby

is being waterboarded to break it from crying.....

in az and utah

and 400 and something woke to a glass of oj here in tx

[malaise]

40. WTF???

:shrug:

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

2. Your best bet is to ignore the television coverage

and go right to the source and read the stories of women who have left. Andrea Moore-Emmett's *God's Brothel* tells the story of 18 of these women. There's a lot of details in there that the media won't publish because it's too lurid.

[Warpy]

4. On a saner? note

there is a brief synopsis of Jessop's book on the cult and why she left it at Slate, http://www.slate.com/id/2189275/?GT1=38001.

Anyone who defends this cult should have her head examined for holes, loose screws and rocks.

If even half the stuff in the synopsis is true, these people are about as crazy and destructive to children as it gets.

[JDPriestly]

7. If ---

I'm concerned because they want to hear the cases of all of these children at once. The parents have a constitutional right with regard to their children. They take away parental rights without clear and convincing evidence. This is a horrible situation. If true, it is horrible for the children. If not true, it is horrible for both the children and the parents.

In any event, I feel very sorry for the mothers who were themselves abused. This is not a situation to be viewed self-righteously.

[fed_up_mother]

10. Because the law requires that the initial hearing be held within so many days

the "group" hearing was a matter of necessity. However, as time goes on, each child will be validly represented by a guardian ad litem, and the parents will have their own legal counsel to fight their case. Make no mistake about it. This is a very wealthy cult, and they have top notch lawyers at their disposal.

Problem is, some of these kids were taken from their parents as far away as the Bountiful compound in British Columbia in order to propogate the "pure race" at the Zion compound.

This is definitely the most complicated custody case anyone has probably ever seen.

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

12. I agree

I support temporary removal of the children, but I don't like the idea of them being removed permanently. Their lives have already been destabilized enough. I think the law needs to act with compassion here. Allow the mothers and younger fathers to continue visiting with their children. Help the parents get the help they need and learn the skills needed to properly care for their children. Get the children the help they need, and insofar as possible, get the families back together without abuse or polygamy.

[fed_up_mother]

17. The problem is

some of these women have actually left their husbands because their husbands didn't want their underaged daughters married. They are then given over to another husband by the prophet. ugh They are brainwashed by the prophet and would do almost anything for him.

Some of these kids have been taken from their parents from as far away as Canada to live and propagate the pure race at "Zion." If parents are so brainwashed that they readily give up their children, do you think they are going to cooperate with authorities?

Until this case is settled, mothers will be able to visit their children, but they are going to be heavily supervised.

Furthermore, these kids are raised in a very communal setting for a reason. If you're not too attached to your own daughter, it's a bit easier to turn her over to the prophet or her "celestial husband." If you're not too attached to your son, you won't fight when he's kicked out of the compound at age thirteen.

Anyone who doesn't think this is sick mind control is...well...I guess I'd better shut up.

[JDPriestly]

27. In Los Angeles, there are some excellent parenting classes.

Parents who abuse their children are often ordered to take the classes. I have heard reports that they learn a lot. Something like that would be helpful. The women I saw in the video may not understand their roles as parents. The children suffer with the situation in that community but they would also suffer if taken from their families. It will take some psychologists with great understanding and great skill to help these people -- many of whom are victims. It isn't just the children who are victims.

This is just so typical of abusive situations. Often, but not always, the abuser was was abused as a child and responds to stress, including not getting what they want immediately, by abusing others. People can learn to interact in a healthy way.

[kestrel91316]

37. Unfortunately, the parents don't WANT to care for the kids properly.

They are so caught up in their doctrinal delusions, they believe that the way WE raise our kids is satanic and theirs is holy.

[Wizard777]

28. If - - - - - - -

If they keep proceeding against the group in this manner. Instead of proceeding on the individual level. They will violate the Convention on the Prevention of Genocide. But here in America. The Convention on the Prevention of Genocide and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffe at the Holocaust Memorial.

[Warpy]

29. Children aren't absolute property

and wholesale mistreatment of children by a religious cult is not constitutionally protected.

[varelse]

36. The parents have a constitutional right with regard to their children.

Which the court does, in fact, recognize. The court is now in the process of determining who the parents are... because unfortunately, the "usual" methods don't apply and DNA testing has become necessary. It's a tangled mess and will not be easy to unravel, but it appears that the TX justice system is working to do so, as quickly as possible under the difficult circumstances.