Gingrich Says Americans ‘Will Give Up All Their Liberties’ For Safety

[Ichingcarpenter]

Yesterday, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich visited Drew University in New Jersey, where he took questions from 20 political science majors there. When one asked him how the government could justify stripping rights from Americans in such pieces of legislation as the Patriot Act, Gingrich said that the government has a “right to defend society,” and when under threat, “people will give up all their liberties“:

“If there’s a threat, you have a right to defend society,” Gingrich said. “People will give up all their liberties to avoid that level of threat.“

Gingrich is directly contradicted by Benjamin Franklin, who rejected the notion that one should give up one’s liberties out of fear:

'Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' >>>>>snip

http://thinkprogress.org/

[SpiralHawk]

1. There you have it. Homelander Gingrich Vs. American Franklin

Homelanders are into fear and control. Americans are into courage and freedom.

I don't want to live in no steenkin totalitarian homeland.

I want to live in the United States of America. It was good enuf for my pappy and my grandpappy,
and it's good enuf for me.

You will have to pry the freedom out of my cold, dead hands, you and your homelander chickenhawk cronies, Mr. Gingrich.

[Dr Fate]

2. Newt is confusing his Bush Republicans with real Americans. n/t

n/t

[islandmkl]

3. F*** the neut....why would people 'give up' their liberties...

when he and his neoconazi pals will just take them away without asking...

patriots my ass...you can figure which side these asses would have been on in 1776...wearing their red and maintaining the status quo...

[niyad]

4. hey, gingrich, you moran, I will NOT give up my liberties. having them stolen from

me is NOT the same as "giving them up"

[lpbk2713]

5. THAT'S what they are hoping for.

And they would like to start with cancelling all elections.

[dchill]

6. He is an asshole. He is dead wrong. He is a Republican...

and they govern from fear because they are full of fear. Courageous people are liberals. Conservative people are conservatives. There is NO threat that justifies or warrants relinquishing any of our constitutionally guaranteed liberties. HE scares me because HE (and those like him) are the REAL threat to our liberties.

[Mountainman]

7. Repukes willing to give up freedoms all the while telling us that the troops are fighting

for our freedoms and that freedom isn't free. Idiots!

[zbdent]

8. Not quite ...

remember, the Repukes will be vehement about keeping just the barest minimum of the Constitution ... the 2nd amendment, and the part which allows Corporations the rights (and none of the responsibilities) that any "citizen" is allowed ...

[tularetom]

9. Sadly I fear they are both right

Americans will indeed give up all their liberties for safety and therefore if we won't fight for them we don't deserve those liberties.

Unfortunate but true.

[coriolis]

36. They ARE both right! Franklin said we SHOULD NOT, Newt says we WILL

and we HAVE.

:grr:

[fascisthunter]

10. Gingrich Just Called Americans Cowards... Well We Know the GOP is

but the GOP does not represent America. Only a very small pathetic part of it.

[Kurovski]

24. I think Gingrich means this as an order, a command.

It reads that way.

[fascisthunter]

27. That's Because He Thinks We are All Like His Sychophantic Following

a bunch of morons who love taking orders, even if those orders are to crap on their own freedoms.

[Thothmes]

51. 51 % per the last presidential election

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

56. I'm glad your position differs from his regarding the 2nd Amendment.

That's a positive change and I for one am glad to see it.

David

[fascisthunter]

72. Funny... I Don't Think There Ever Was A Change

just your interpretation of the Second Amendment.

[B3Nut]

11. Three words for you, Newt...

Fuck. Right. Off.

If we have to give up liberties to save our asses, then our asses are just not worth saving, in fact they aren't worth a tinker's damn.

[Richard Steele]

12. Those liberties are in the Constitution to provide safety from people like Gingrich.

He and his ilk have caused more real damage and suffering
in the USA than BinLaden could ever dream of.

[OwnedByFerrets]

13. The Presidents first responsibility is to protect the

FARKING CONSTITUTION!!!

[indepat]

14. The greatest threat to our safety are those like Newt and other 'pukes

who do not provide a scintilla of safety while gladly stripping our freedom and liberty to create a police state wherein political opponents can be targeted and punished. But it couldn't be happening to a sweller bunch of fellers. :D

[sakabatou]

15. I think Gingrich needs a visit from V

[rucky]

19. as long as it's not this V...

[sakabatou]

20. Uh... your image is broken

[rucky]

23. okay, now try

the 1983 alien invasion miniseries

[sakabatou]

25. Ooooh

Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honour to meet you, and you may call me V.

[Deja Q]

48. Is that mooning us?

:hide:

[DefenseLawyer]

16. Sieg Heil

[Clear Blue Sky]

17. Yea right...

[The Blue Flower]

18. Then why the secrecy?

If people are so willing to give up their liberties, just be up front about it. Have a ballot. Get some consensus. We can all rush over the cliff holding hands! Why bother with middle-of-the-night PATRIOT Act baloney?

[AlCzervik]

21. fuck that shit.

[old mark]

22. Amazing neut!

I'm amazed that fat little shit is still alive and that anyone takes hum seriously.
He should be on the radio with Rush.

mark

[Javaman]

26. as they marched off the cliff, one prol asked the other prol...

is this the way to safety?

[Fumesucker]

28. Gingrich got it a little wrong..

Americans will give up all their liberties for the ILLUSION of safety.

And that's all it ever is, an illusion.

Life is a terminal condition.

[LSK]

29. Move to China Newt, you can be "safe" there

[auburngrad82]

30. Really? So try prying a gun from an NRA member's hand

Or try taking an SUV from a soccer mom.

[MisterP]

34. why would they need to? they can control them as easily by making them watch out for "grabbers"

or the Russkies coming over the hill--one of these days...!

[Brigid]

43. You've seen "Red Dawn" too many times, methinks.

:)

[MisterP]

50. that's the point: if gun owners are terrified of the mugger/bobcat/Comanche/Commie

they're certain is just around the corner, they'll be kept busy keeping their eyes trained on their neighbors and on passers-by and on that nosy ecologist or food inspector. The NRA probably saves the Powers That Be billions in annual snooping costs.

[kineneb]

87. better: try prying one from an anarchist's hands

laws, we pays no attention to them stinking gun laws...or to no stinking NRA, either...

:evilgrin:

[judasdisney]

31. Sounds like a threat ... funny no Anthrax investigations from Congress yet

Don't hold your breath

[Spirochete]

32. As the great Patrick Henry once said:

"Please don't kill me! I don't want to die! Liberty? Freedom? Rights? Take them - they're all overrated anyway!"

Patrick Henry would give that asscarrot Newt a wedgie and a wet willie, and kick his ass out into the Atlantic ocean.

[Diclotican]

35. VancSouthpaw

VancSouthpaw

What Kick Newt Gingrich out in the Atlantic Ocean. And pollute that area of the world. Hey I am living on the opposite sea bed of US, and I don't want my part of the world be polluted by the ass shit that mr Gingrich are... Not thanks

On the other hand.. If you was sending Gingrich, and the most of the GOP party leadership to a distant place in the solar system. I would be happy to support it.. Even pay for some petrol to get them out of our way.. Maybe the REAL REPUBLICAN can get into control again. And even the REAL DEMOCRATIC party would start exist again too.. Maybe even we all can get the REAL UNITED STATES OF AMERICA back.... I really miss the good Old united states... The last 8 year have been hard to come by, when this regime have been in place.

I miss, and I hope the old, real america can get their act together.. And work together with every one of their FRIENDS to do the right thing.. Maybe US even can get back to where it once was. In the front seat.. Today US are not longer in the front seat.. Maybe back someplace's.. But not in the front seat... And if US are not taking their act together, they may loose the edge they once had... To China, India and Russia... And it would be a loss, for all....

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[Horse with no Name]

33. Not this American. n/t

[magellan]

37. Newt doesn't speak for me

Recently I discovered that one of my direct-line ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War and wintered at Valley Forge with George Washington. Now I'm willing to defend society, country, et al, I even served in the military. But that goes only so far and not at the expense of the Constitution our forefathers sacrificed so much to put in place.

A patriot is someone who believes the laws and rights established within our founding document are worth protecting no matter the cost, not someone who believes American security trumps the Constitution.

It's people who think that way (neocons/Repubs/cowards of all stripes with a big yellow one straight down their backs) who have brought danger to our doorstep.

[spanone]

38. he never asked me. newt is sooo yesteryear

[HughBeaumont]

39. I don't know what's worse:

Newt's highly Anti-American and downright fucking idiotic opinions or a GOP lapdog media that's deciding he's still relevant in some way none of us lemmings know about.

[skycordia]

40. Looks like Benny Franklin needs to reanimate...

and show this loser whos the man.

[Brigid]

42. Yeah.

Where's old Ben when we need him? :cry:

[kenny blankenship]

41. He's counting on it

[G_j]

44. good, then he should be willing to enroll himself at Gitmo

taking himself out of circulation will make us all safer!

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

45. They turned him into a newt!

A pity he never got better.

[kevinbgoode]

46. If people give up all of their liberties to "defend society"

what society are they defending? The Republican dictatorship?

[Deja Q]

47. Cool.

:)

I personally believe there can be a fair balance between freedom and safety; it'd be daft to sit around with open arms.

But to digress: What happened to the promises in the "Contract with America" anyway?

[KSinTX]

49. We've been there. Done that.

[SpiralHawk]

79. ...and the republicons failed miserably with their 'contract on America.' As usual.

The republicon always fail miserably, either through corruption or incompetence, or a uniquely republicon blend of both.

[KSinTX]

84. Truest shame of all n/t

[varelse]

52. well hindsight is 20/20

Let's see Mr smartypants predict something that hasn't actually happened already!

[Kitty Herder]

53. Yeah, only in Gringrich's sick, demented, power-hungry dreams.

Once people in this country wake up to the fact that their liberties have indeed been stolen, jackasses like Newt will find out how mightily people disagree with him.

[GetTheRightVote]

54. I believe this is not true, we live in the real world again not his world

We must be free otherwise safety will be lost as well...

[AteAlien]

55. thirty years ago the very concept

would have gotten him a 72 hour hold in a mental institution.

[Cerridwen]

57. Stopped clock and all that. He's right; we have.

As I've noted elsewhere, I'm 50.

I remember when car insurance was not mandated by law (in my state at that time).

Nightly "news" showed the horrors of uninsured motorists "destroying the lives" of good, people (all white, btw; that is significant I think)

Viola! Car insurance mandated by law by unregulated insurance companies who don't have to do business with you.

Next were video cameras at the atm machines. Proceeded by nightly "news" reports about horrific crimes and murder committed at atm machines. Smile, you're on camera now; at the atm, the convenience store, the market, the mall, and many traffic signals. Don't worry. It's to keep you "safe."

Next were "millions" of accidents "caused" by drugged out commercial transportation operators, drivers and pilots. The nightly "news" made a point of reporting it all in gory detail. Go for a job interview; pee in a cup. To keep you safe, from the convenience store clerk, the auto parts store worker, the receptionist, etc. How's that workin' for ya?

School was not mandated by law when I was in school. But them damned truants fucked it up for all of us. School attendance now mandatory unless home schooling with all proper certificates, etc.

I hate him. He's right. We will, are, and have given up our liberties for the illusion of "safety".

Hi, Agent Mike! :hi:

[jody]

58. Newt's prediction re RKBA puts him rock solid with gun-grabbers and in opposition to the Dem. Party

that promises "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms".

[Tejas]

66. the government has "rights" (?)

wt_everloving_f, over?

[jody]

68. Nothing in my post talked about govt. "Americans" as used in the Dem platform clearly means a person

[Tejas]

81. I misworded

article: Gingrich said that the government has a “right to defend society,”

That guy is nuts, wonder where his version of the government's "rights" end and the Bill of Rights begins?

[jody]

82. Agree, IMO the danger is some people want to replace "inalienable rights" with "government rights".

[bdamomma]

59. Eye of Newt can shut the eff up.

they just love insulting us don't they?? they need to be slapped down. This is a class war!

[SpiralHawk]

89. Actually, Newtie was only referring to Freepers & Homelanders

Since they are the only class of entities that fit his description.

[malaise]

60. KO spoke about this

Gingrich is one more Rethug lunatic.

[Canuckistanian]

61. Such Americans are the ULTIMATE wimps

And DESERVE to have their butts kicked.

[eppur_se_muova]

62. And Newt's track record at prognostication is ... ?

Only slightly better than George F. Bush's 'gut'.

[L0oniX]

63. Safety??? as in health care so I don't die from a curable condition?

[iverglas]

64. there ya go, eh?

What liberty is "essential" -- the liberty to pay large amounts of money to whichever hospital you choose, if you happen to have it? Some might think so.

What safety is merely little and temporary -- the safety of not dying of treatable cancer? Some might not think so.

Opinions can be expected to vary, depending on whether someone is rich and has no cancer or poor and has cancer. Then the person with the cancer and no money just might think that his/her safety is essential, and the rich healthy person's liberty is merely little and temporary.

Of course, opinions will also vary depending on how much one cares about people who are poor and have cancer, even if one isn't and doesn't one's self.

[L0oniX]

94. Yep ...I tell people that I am more worried about other drivers more than terrorists...

since over 45,000 die every year in transportation accidents and that I care about my own health care more than spreading freedom and democracy. When I have a home and a job and health care then I can think about helping others.

[iverglas]

96. well, that wasn't exactly what I meant

Concerns about safety/security are often concerns about other people's safety/security (like concern about other people's access to healthcare even if one can afford one's own), while concerns about "freedom" are often just pig-ignorant selfishness couched in fine words.

[texpatriot2004]

65. Ben Franklin was right. Newt is a fool. nm

[benEzra]

67. Speak for yourself, Grinch.

I'll keep my liberties, thanks. :eyes:


----------------------
Thoughts on Gun Ownership

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

[Postman]

69. You can't give up "rights" they're irrevocable, otherwise they are just priviledges.

n/t

[defendandprotect]

70. Gingrich is a frightening person . . . quite a successful propagandist and

seemingly has been studying robotizing the GOP for a long time ---

He's a Hitler think a like -- IMO.

[Ichingcarpenter]

71. Gingrich and Hillary have done many things together in the last few years

If that tells you anything.

[madrchsod]

73. hillary said close to the same thing in the first or second debate

she needs to go back to new york

[unkachuck]

74. nope....

"People will give up all their liberties..."

....give up ALL their liberties??....I haven't given up a single liberty; Nazis like you have been taking them from me....that makes people like you, liberty thieves....

....the only thing I'm willing to give up to a fascist, is a load down your throat....

[BreweryYardRat]

75. Yet again, Repugs prove they have no idea what this country is supposed to be about.

Back in 1776, hell, maybe even in the 1860s, Newt would have been tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

[NM Independent]

76. Hey Newt, go Cheney yourself. n/t

[SeattleGirl]

77. Hey Newt. Isn't that the equivalent of fucking for virginity???

Asshat!

[Hubert Flottz]

78. Spoken like a true NAZI!

NAZI NEWT!

[Perry Logan]

80. That's why every Republican in the world is praying for another big terror attack on the U.S.

[MadHound]

83. Sadly, Gingrich is spot on

People fell for the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and all the rest of the crap because they were scared out of their wits by 911. Most people in this country still don't give a crap about our lost liberties, the prevailing sentiment being "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to worry about." We're living in a nation of sheep who are perfectly willing to give up all their liberties in order to feel safe(note, I didn't say be safe).

A sad statistic floating around a couple of years ago, wish I had copied it, but anyway it seems as though sixty eight percent of our fellow Americans believe that martial law would be justified if there was another "terrorist attack" like 911. I think that I'll be keeping out of large buildings, large gatherings of people, and landmarks come next December and January. I just don't think that Bush and Cheney are going to go quietly.

[KSinTX]

85. Wish I could rec the comment. Too true! nt

[Michigan-Arizona]

97. Very well put MadHound! n/t

[Norwood]

86. Finally one of them just said it

The really sad part is that he's probably right.

[madmusic]

88. He's right, right here at DU

Look at this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3180017&mesg_id=3180017

[VotesForWomen]

90. unfortunately, a lot of dems are on the same page with him. nt

[windoe]

91. This exact announcement was made right before the Patriot Act was enacted

I believe in Oct 2001, which broke the spell I was under to be 'behind the president' after 911. Just hearing the words makes my skin crawl.

[warren pease]

92. Nice sentiments all down this thread, but show me where he's wrong re the general population...

Below is what we have collectively swallowed so far. Some of us gagged, but we swallowed it anyway. I don't know why we swallowed it. Unlike the Newtster, I don't think that's the tradeoff for a little security, at least in all cases. But there are too many people who remain in a permanent state of Bush/Cheney-driven fear of imminent death or dismemberment by shadowy scimitar-wielding Islamofascists bent on destroying America one chicken shit at a time.

These people are, in fact, the choir that Bushie's been preaching to since his first 9/11 photo op when he groped FDNY survivors and hopscotched over the charred and fragmented corpses of his very own Reichstag Fire -- using those deaths to advance the PNAC agenda abroad and old Prescott's wet fascist dream at home.

And so we now have, on the books and I suppose enforceable, repressive legislation, executive orders and presidential directives; massive federal invasions of privacy regarding medical and http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/washington/23intel.html?ex=1308715200&en=168d69d26685c26c&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss">financial records; monitoring US citizens' electronic communications; re-targeting spy satellites for domestic surveillance; the TSA cavity search specialists (for attractive young women only; the rest are presumed to pose no threat to the state); no-fly and terrorist watch lists; Halliburton/KBR's detention camps; RFIDs in new passports and in the new national ID cards scheduled to be issued this year (but which are drawing so much fire that their distribution may be delayed or canceled outright); new TSA "behavior detection officers" to spot those who don't "look quite right;" all this wonderful new stuff from the DHS; private armies featuring mercenaries from companies like Blackwater and SAIC springing up like mushrooms after a light rain... All that and the Patriot Act, the http://www.aclu.org/safefree/detention/commissions.html">Military Commissions Act, http://www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/22203res20051206.html">extraordinary rendition (whatever the hell that means) and torture, too. (Note: the torture link is graphic and disgusting.)

And my new personal favorite: FBI Deputizes Private Contractors With Extraordinary Powers, Including 'Shoot to Kill'

And another thing that suggests Americans don't much care about Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms: Every now and then, the ACLU goes into the streets and conducts a bunch of interviews of randomly selected strangers. No attempt at scientifically chosen subjects to reflect every possible demographic. Just people walking down the street.

The ACLU reps show these people a copy of the Bill of Rights, reworked into familiar, conversational terms. Like: You can own a gun and the government can't take it away from you. Something like that.

And damned if the results aren't consistent year to year, city to city, town to town ... the respondents either don't have any idea what they're looking at, disagree with most of the ideas expressed or become downright hostile and start yammering about "commernism" and "pinko socialists" and "go back to Rusha." And so forth. Every damn time for as long as I've been aware of this particular experiment.

As fate and timing would have it, I can't find the damn links to the ACLU reports right now. I'm probably setting up lousy search criteria. It's a true story, though, and I'll keep trying to find the evidence. You really can't make this shit up.


wp

[windoe]

95. We have swallowed these changes along with

legislation for increased surveillance, police brutality, buildup of mercenary army and the building of what appears to be concentration camps in US, extraordinary renditions, and other threatening legislations. What would it take for the average Joe and Jane to hit the streets and protest under these threats? I have thought about this continually during the last 8 years, admiring countries like Venezuela and Uzbekistan for not tolerating unfair elections. The sad fact is, as long as the Patriot Act and other laws remain, these will serve as deterrents. I believe this is behind the rhetoric attempting to marginalize angry citizens, you know, the bitter activists.
Yes, there has also been a 'dumbing down' of America by mainstream media, and most people work so hard they have no time to think about these issues, which to me creates a false premise. Saying an uninformed populace consents to repressive laws is false. It is an uninformed consent.

[Mezzo]

93. They did! Look at 9-11 and the march to war. It sucks, but it's true.

[and-justice-for-all]

98. RRRRIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTT.......

He abviously asked the work people. His assumption is presumptious.

[scarletwoman]

99. Of course, Gingrich won't be giving up any of HIS liberties.

That's just for the proles.

[AnnieBW]

100. Whatever Happened to "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death"?

I mean, really... are we all a bunch of chickenshits now?