DA: Young mother botched abortion with ulcer medication

[wicket]

LINK

Prosecutors charged an 18-year-old woman today with ingesting ulcer medication in a botched attempt to abort her second-term pregnancy.

Instead of aborting the 23 to 25 week-old fetus, however, Amber Abreu gave birth to 1 1/4-pound baby girl. The infant, who was named Ashley, died four days later, prosecutors allege.

Abreu pleaded not guilty today in Lawrence District Court to "procuring an improper miscarriage," a charge that could carry up to seven years in state prison. She was ordered held on $15,000 cash bail. Abreu's aunt, Ana Rosario, told reporters outside court that family members were shocked by her arrest Monday by Lawrence police. The family did not know that Abreu was pregnant before she gave birth.

According to prosecutors and court documents, Abreu told investigators, "I killed my baby."

Prosecutors allege that a friend from the Dominican Republic gave Abreu Misoprostol, a drug that is legal in the United States. Misoprostol is typically prescribed to treat stomach ulcers, but it is frequently misused to induce labor, according to court documents.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Exactly who came up with a law including "procuring an improper miscarriage"?

Was this in MA?

[HockeyMom]

2. Baseball Bat Miscarriage

It seems the woman who asked her boyfriend to inflict a miscarriage by hitting her stomach with a bat was not guilty because she had a right to an abortion. So how come this woman couldn't use her own means as well? After all she administered the means, no second party was involved.

[cynatnite]

3. Was it in a different state?

Laws vary from state to state.

[Igel]

4. Perhaps because it was a live birth.

Had the fetus died before coming out, it wouldn't have ever been a person.

Since it lived for a few seconds (or more) outside the mother, it's a person. She didn't have an abortion, she induced labor and delivered a baby--incredibly premature, but a baby. Then she let it die, if only by negligence; it's possible it would have died anyway.

[colinmom71]

6. That case occured in Michigan...

And she was never charged in the incident. Only the boyfriend was since the fetal homicide law there explicitly excludes the pregnant woman from prosecution.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0501/05/A01-50709.htm

[colinmom71]

5. IF the DA were smart, he'd drop this case like a hot potato...

Likely, MA's "procuring an improper miscarriage" law is a rather old statute from the mid to late 19th century designed to address making abortions under certain circumstances as illegal. Some of the first laws against abortions were in fact laws against toxic poisons used to induce the abortion. They were designed to protect women from quacks dispensing harmful or even fatal doses of chemicals or medicines in order to abort a pregnancy. The intention in these laws usually had nothing to do with protecting fetal life... But I'll defer to someone more familiar with MA laws regarding abortion and fetal homicide as to whether this statute is being misapplied.

While MA does not have a statutory law addressing fetal homicide, it does have various case law incidents in the last 30 years or so that address an appropriately limited application of homicide counts to fetal life provided that the fetus was deemed medically viable at the time of the criminal incident and that the death was a direct result of injuries sustained solely by the criminal incident. ( http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/fethom.htm )

The problem I see with this particular case is that the state is going to have to prove that the premature birth wouldn't have happened except for the mother's ingesting the misoprostol, which could be a tricky issue indeed. Clearly, her intent was to end the pregnancy, but it also needs to be proven that she knew the fetus was viable and that her actions showed reckless indifference to that fact.

As I doubt that the girl sought pre-natal care, the notion that she was reliably informed about the viability status of the fetus is unlikely. The lack of pre-natal care itself could be a contributing factor in the premature birth if the girl was not caring for herself porperly. In her desperate mindframe, she took advice and medicine wrongfully from someone who probably it was the same thing as taking RU-486 and provided her with the medicine. (BTW, why isn't this person also charged at least with distributing medication illegally?)

This girl is likely poor and of immigrant background, leaving her vulnerable to the heavy handed tactics of a malicious prosecutor who may be railroading her sad case to a political victory. The girl needed health care and assistance but was too scared to seek it... And now we're seeing why.

[wicket]

7. kick

:kick:

[wicket]

8. kick

:kick:

[Thothmes]

9. Self Induced Termination

Here Virginia about a year ago, a young woman late in her third tri-mester, shot her self in the abdomen, killing the fetus. The local DA tried to prosecute her, but could not because there was no Virginia law that made it illegal. Virginia General Assembly is proposing a law to make killing an unborn child a felony. The proposed law is being written so as not to infringe on abortions or the use of "Morning After" drugs. At least it is being advertised that way.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. "I killed my baby."..... Damn Right You Did.

[wicket]

11. Should she be charged with murder then?

n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. I Wouldn't Object To A Lesser Degree Murder Charge. But I Think Her Current Charge Will Suffice.

[demrabble]

13. She Most Certainly Did NOT

From the article:

"Abreu told investigators that she took three Misoprostol pills on Jan. 4 and 5. She suffered abdominal pains and gave birth at Lawrence General Hospital on Jan. 6. The premature baby died Jan. 10 at New England Medical Center."

Her baby was born, and lived. It died in a hospital.

She did nothing to kill her baby.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. No, She Most Certainly DID.

Would you use the same pathetically illogical argument if someone shot another in the head but it took them a few days to die in the hospital?

Sorry, but that ain't gonna fly with me.

Furthermore, to actually issue a declaration that she did "nothing to kill her baby" when it is already established that she intended this action and purposefully took the pill for this to occur, and upon doing such in fact was the catalyst for the premature birth of this child, is one of the most desperate denials of acknowledging responsibility I've ever heard.

[demrabble]

17. A Fetus Is Not A Baby.

Your analogy fails.

In your analogy, a human person shots another human person.

But that is not the case here.

The woman apparently attempted to abort her fetus by taking some drug that was not prescribed for her.

But she did not kill her baby.

A fetus is not a baby.

After her baby was born, she did nothing to try to kill it.

In fact, it would appear that she took meaningful steps (like having the baby in the hospital) to try to NOT to kill her baby.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

18. That's Your Opinion. Mine Is That A 6 Month Old Fetus Absolutely Is.

I find what she did to be utterly disgusting and hope that the court finds her actions to be as well.

My final comment would be calling out the ridiculousness of your last statement. Using a modified analogy, I doubt if you purposely shoot someone in the head twice but then proceed to drive them to the hospital, that the prosecutor or law enforcement would turn to you and say "thank you for taking the meaningful steps to not kill them".

My god. :rofl:

[demrabble]

19. Don't You Mean a Six Month Old Baby?

Your opinion confuses me.

How can a six month old fetus be a baby?

If a six month old fetus is a baby, then how old is a six month old baby?

Is it one year old or fifteen months old?

My answer is that a six month old baby is six months old -- Six months have passed since the baby was born.

Or do you also think that a six month old baby is a fifteen-month fetus?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. I Just Laughed At Your False Premise.

First of all, do you mind pointing out to me where I ever called it a 6 month old baby?

I consider it to be a baby at after the fourth month. Your birthday arguments are merely irrelevant in this debate and have nothing to do with the atrocity of her actions.

Furthermore, it was a baby that died in the hospital, not a fetus. The baby died as a direct result of her actions and I feel that she absolutely deserves some level of punishment for it.

You obviously disagree. That'll happen at times on a message board. But I do have valid right to feel the way I do.

:hi:

[demrabble]

22. Here's Where:

You ask, "do you mind pointing out to me where I ever called it a 6 month old baby?"

Here's Where:

Me: "A Fetus Is Not A Baby"

You: "That's Your Opinion. Mine Is That A 6 Month Old Fetus Absolutely Is

You did say that your opinion is that a 6 month old fetus absolutely is a baby.

If a six month old fetus is a baby, then it must have some age.

If a fetus = a baby, then (using the terms you set out), a six month old fetus = a six month old baby.

At least that's what I thought you said.

Clearly, it was a baby that died in the hospital (whoever said that it was not?)

Are you suggesting that she should be punished because she gave birth to a baby that breifly lived after it was born?

Or are you suggesting that she should be punished because she wanted to have an abortion, and gave birth to a baby that lived for a brief time after it was born?

And of course you have a valid right to feel the way you do. Has anyone suggested that you do not?

[cynatnite]

24. Well, I think a six month fetus is a baby...

It's my opinion that if a fetus is able to survive outside the womb it's a baby. Whether it's 24 weeks or 32 weeks. It's still a fetus inside the mother, but if it has the capability to survive outside the womb I consider it a baby.

[demrabble]

27. Then How Old is a Baby Six Months After It is Born?

How old is a baby six months after it is born?

I say it is six months old. It is six months since it stopped being a fetus and began life as a baby.

I think your post suggests that it becomes a baby before it is born.

So how old is a baby six months after it is born?

[cynatnite]

My post says that upon delivery it is a baby...

That's what the medical community says as well no matter how premature it is. In the womb, it's a fetus. That's why I posted the definition.

[cynatnite]

33. dupe n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Response:

"Here's Where:

Me: "A Fetus Is Not A Baby"

You: "That's Your Opinion. Mine Is That A 6 Month Old Fetus Absolutely Is

You did say that your opinion is that a 6 month old fetus absolutely is a baby."


Yes, I did. Never called it a 6 month old baby, did I.


"If a six month old fetus is a baby, then it must have some age."


Ummmmm, ok. But I fail to see the relevancy in such a statement.


"If a fetus = a baby, then (using the terms you set out), a six month old fetus = a six month old baby."


Again, you issue completely false and ignorant premise. I did not claim that a fetus = a baby. I said I consider a 6 month old fetus to be a baby. Please next time try to read more clearly.


"At least that's what I thought you said."


Simple re-reading of my response would've cleared that issue up for ya.



"Are you suggesting that she should be punished because she gave birth to a baby that breifly lived after it was born?"


That's probably your worst interpretation yet. It is more than glaringly obvious that the reasoning behind her deserving punishment is due to her disgusting actions that led to the premature birth, thereby causing the child to die within days.


"Or are you suggesting that she should be punished because she wanted to have an abortion, and gave birth to a baby that lived for a brief time after it was born?"


I'm saying she should be punished for engaging in disgusting behavior that directly and intentionally caused the premature birth of and eventual death of a baby.


"And of course you have a valid right to feel the way you do. Has anyone suggested that you do not?"

Nope. But I wanted to state that point anyway. Just cause. Don't have to have everything I write be in direct rebuttal to somethin, ya know.

[Connonym]

29. Abortion IS legal in the US

I'm not a lawyer but it seems clear to me this is bullshit. That poor girl. I guess the moral of this story is make damned sure you do it right.

[cynatnite]

34. That is not how the law is stated...

The fetus was born alive and by medical standards is considered a baby. Once that happened, then what she did became a crime.

[cynatnite]

21. A fetus is termed a baby after it is born...

Fetus: The unborn offspring from the end of the 8th week after conception (when the major structures have formed) until birth. Up until the eighth week, the developing offspring is called an embryo.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=3424

[demrabble]

23. Exactly.

A fetus is a fetus.

A baby is a baby.

Aborting a fetus is not the same thing as killing a baby.

[cynatnite]

26. You're missing the point...

after a fetus is born it is a baby. She attempted an abortion and had a premature baby as a result. The baby died because of what she did. That is a crime.

[demrabble]

32. I Think I Get The Point.

This woman attempted to have an abortion.

Her attempt to abort her fetus did not succeed.

She gave birth to a live baby.

She took no action to kill her baby after it was born.

She did not kill her baby.

For all I can see, she wanted her baby to live once it was born.

I don't think she should be guilty of killing her baby because her attempts at abortion did not succeed,

Her intent to have an abortion should not be the basis for saying that she is guilty of killing a baby.

Her crime, in my view, was ingesting medicines that we not prescribed for her.

The point is that her intent to have an abortion should not form the basis for charging her with a crime.

[cynatnite]

36. The baby was born at the hospital...

She couldn't make a go to killing it there. But what she did prior to that and the end results of what she did is where the criminal act is.

She took medicine to kill her baby. As a result of the physical reactions of her body, she went to the hospital and had a live baby. What she did resulted in killing the baby after it was born. That's the crime.

If the baby had died in the womb, then chances are no charges would have been filed. It was still a fetus when it died.

[demrabble]

42. No, She Took Medicine To Abort

"She took medicine to kill her baby."

No, she took some medicine (not prescribed for her) in order to abort a fetus.

We have already agreed, I think, that legally and medically, she did not have a baby when she ingested the medicine.

She had a fetus when she ingested the medicine.

Her attempt to abort her fetus failed.

She gave birth to a baby. The baby continued to live after it was born.

Once the baby was born, she took no action to kill it.

Despite her taking no action to kill her baby, it died anyway.

If she is punished for taking medicine in order to have an abortion, then it seems to me that she is being punished only because of her intent -- her intent to have an abortion.

Either that, or she is being punished simply because her intention to have an abortion failed.

Either way, she took no action to kill a baby. So when she says, "I killed my baby", she is being way too harsh on herself.

[cynatnite]

45. The law sees it differently than you do...

The baby died as a result of what she did even though it was a fetus at the time. It's still illegal.

Now, you may not agree with it, but that is just the way it is. That's the law.

[Maine-ah]

37. well then lets say a woman is nine months pregnant

5 minutes before child is born, you say it's still a fetus? And she could kill it with no repercussions?

I am totally for a womans right to choose. I made that choice for myself 11 years ago. I also believe there should be a "cut off" point in a pregnancy that someone can have an abortion.

[demrabble]

43. Well, Let's Say This

Let's say a woman is three months pregnant, is it a fetus? I think so.

Let's say a woman is five months pregnant, is it a fetus? I think so.

Let's say a woman is six months pregnant, is it a fetus? I think so.

Let's say a woman is seven months pregnany, is it a fetus? I think so (and I think medical people and the law agree with me).

Eight months? Still a fetus.

Eight months, two weeks? Still a fetus.

Eight months, three weeks? Still a fetus.

36 hours before birth? Still a fetus.

24 hours before birth? Still a fetus.

6 hours before birth? Still a fetus.

One hour before birth? Still a fetus.

I'd prefer that there should be no "cut off" point in a pregnancy after which a woman forfeits her choice.

[Mandate My Ass]

44. demrabble

You really are and I salute you. Welcome to DU. :hi:

[wicket]

48. Amen to that

:hi:

[mondo joe]

47. Even many abortion providers won't perform terminations after a certain

point unless it's truly medically necessary.

The point isn't so much whether it's a fetus or not, but whether it's viable.

[SoCalDem]

25. technically, yes... but

with a wanted pregnancy "it" becomes a baby as soon as we know we are pregnant.

"Bonding" takes place way before birtgh.

BUT

if the pregnant woman does NOT want to be pregnant, "it" is never really a baby (in their mind).

........................

A young friend of mine is going through hell right now trying to decide what to do.

She & her husband (both are 24) have two healthy kids, and this baby was a big surprise to them... (she found out she was pregnant a week before his vasectomy appointment.

At first they thought she was having twins, then a speciallist thought she had a molar pregnancy, and now they think it's one baby, BUT there appear to be some "abnormalities"

Today was the day for the amnio, and she was a nervous wreck.

her young husband wants no part of this baby if, there's something "wrong with it", and even though she's torn about what to do, she is leaning to continuing the pregnancy until she's "sure".

he was all upset the other night (he's on my Tuesday bowling team).

i tried to explain to him that she knows this is her last baby, and she's bonded. Even if there might be something wrong with this baby, she cannot make a rash decision, because whatever happens, it will always be in her mind.

[cynatnite]

30. This article made me wonder why this girl felt she couldn't confide in her family...

I also wondered why she felt there were no other options for her other than to do what she did. The only thing that came to mind was how expensive abortions can be.

Either way, this girl committed a crime. If the fetus had died inside the womb charges may not have been filed against her at all. But when it's born and lives, even if only for a short time, it's a person.

What'll happen to this girl is anybody's guess. If there are mitigating circumstances that's not in this article, I do hope those are considered as this case is litigated. It's got to be traumatic for everyone involved.

[SoCalDem]

39. And I suspect that MANY young women try the "folk techniques" first.

There are always people who can be confided in, and probably a lot of them have a "home remedy" to tell them about. If she could not tell her family, for whatever reason, she probably wanted to do it herself , but got scared.

[cynatnite]

16. My understanding of the law is...

and anyone please feel free to correct me...

If a woman attempts to have an abortion in such a way, and the baby lives outside of the womb for even a short time and dies as a result of that action, it carries a penalty. It's against the law.

[Hobarticus]

35. Okay, that clears it up for me...

To me, "procuring improper miscarriage" could be interpreted in many ways. But your post makes sense.

Still, I don't know if this girl should spend seven years in prison for this. Seems draconian, to me.

[cynatnite]

38. Well, I don't know about that kind of sentence either...

There had to have been mitigating circumstances. My hope is that all it's taken in consideration before she's sentenced.

I'm bothered she didn't go to her family or seek any other alternatives. Girls can be so afraid of their parents and their reactions.

[Hobarticus]

40. I think she's suffered enough, to be honest...

She'll have to live with this the rest of her life.

[cynatnite]

41. Very true n/t

[wicket]

15. kick

:kick:

[Hobarticus]

31. "Procuring improper miscarriage" could be interpreted any way you please...

How is "improper miscarriage" defined? Some may call a legal abortion an "improper miscarriage".

[demrabble]

46. Information on Misoprostol

Here are a couple of links about Misoprostol, the drug this woman took:

http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/medical-ab.htm

http://www.rhtp.org/abortion/misoprostol/default.asp

http://www.womenonwaves.org/set-1020.191-nl.html

[wicket]

49. Thanks

n/t