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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:16 AM
Original message
The Darker Side of Tax Freedom Day
From MN2020, a progressive think tank in Minnesota. "Tax Freedom Day" is celebrated by the government-hating wingnuts who mark the day on which you, if you had put your whole paycheck into taxes, would have paid your entire tax burden for the year. Funny thing is, the states with the earliest "tax freedom day" have some interesting characteristics. So do the states with the latest.

By and large, states with late tax freedom days tend to have high after-tax incomes and states with early tax freedom days tend to have low after-tax income. (The relationship between tax freedom day and after-tax income is statistically significant at the 0.01 level.) The aggregate per capita after-tax income among the five states with the latest tax freedom days (California, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, and Washington) is 28 percent higher than in the five states with the earliest tax freedoms (Alabama, Alaska, Mississippi, Montana, and West Virginia).
...
In general, states with late tax freedom days not only have higher after-tax income, but lower poverty rates, fewer working poor, and lower-infant mortality. A correlation with data from the 2007 Development Report Card for the States shows that states with late tax freedom days tend to score better on all three report card categories-performance, business vitality, and development capacity-than do states with early tax freedom days. Late tax freedom day states also tend to have a higher quality of life based on the 2008 Most Livable State report. (All of these relationships are statistically significant.)

More...


Throw that in the face of your nearest ignorant tax-hating Republican.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. Paying your taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do.
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nels25 Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I still say that with taxation there is a fine line
and once you go across that line that divides taxes that can be tolerated and taxes that discourage people from wanting to work to improve their lives (example: the overall tax burden reaches a level where why should I work any harder since any thing I make will go to some function of government) you will cause your self economic pain.

Or perhaps in short hand, make the tax burden to high and people will just start feeling the hell with it and just refuse to work harder, invest or take some risks, due to the fact it will just not be worth it.

Cross that line between reasonable and confiscatory and watch how long we stay in office.


NOTE*** I DO NOT THINK WE ARE EVEN CLOSE TO THE ABOVE NOTED POINT YET!! NOR DO I THINK THAT REPEAL OF THE BUSH TAX CUTS WILL GET US THERE!!

But if we return to the high tax rates of the late 70's mid 80's we could get there.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. All you have to do is look at the governments of Europe.
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 09:09 AM by trotsky
People still work, and invest, and take risks with a higher tax burden. In fact with their larger safety net, it can be argued people are more willing to take those risks. If I, as an American, have an OK job that has benefits, why should I risk my family's medical care by trying to start my own business, even if I have a great idea?

This data even addresses that within the US. States with later "freedom" days have a better business climate, etc.
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nels25 Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Maybe I am incorrect then.
and if so I readily admit my short comings in the realm of economics (I have my BA in History).

I took only a 101 level course on economics and that was about 15 years ago.

And I admit I have no real idea what is causing most of the housing and associated economic problems, save the fact that speculators are driving oil prices and to some degree are responsible for the housing situation. Speculators have always caused this nation trouble.

I hate people who acquire wealth by shifting paper.

I prefer a person acquire their wealth by making a good and legitimate idea stand up, or producing a tangible good or service.

But in my economic class of yore I was taught that there can be such a thing as to high a tax rate which would inhibit initiative.

Hey I am not so old that I am not willing to learn.

Thank you.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Naw, you're not wrong, there's got to be a limit.
Clearly 100% would be one. But I think it's pretty damn high. I mean, the top tax bracket back in the roaring 20s was like 90% - yet the economy kept going. It was also much higher back in the 50s and early 60s, around 70% IIRC.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I'd amend that to say that paying taxes USED TO BE among the more patriotic things you can do...
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 12:01 PM by warren pease
Not these days. Not when they're paying for Bush-era priorities. I've been watching since Nixon as elites, corporate welfare queens and their acolytes in the executive and legislatives branches alter the tax code to reward the rich simply for being rich and penalize the rest of us for being poor or middle class.

But never, even during the shameful reign of Raygun, have I witnessed federal taxes being used to commit so many atrocities -- here and abroad -- screw up more peoples' lives so thoroughly, and blatantly stuff the pockets of the rich elites and corporate ruling classes right out in the open, and dare anybody to object.

I'm pissed off at the fact that an estimated 54 percent of federal taxes today goes directly or indirectly to the pentagon, along with various "supplemental appropriations" congress rewards Bush with from time to time just because he's so downright charming.

Untold billions more disappear each year into the black budgets of 16 -- count 'em: 16 -- separate spook agencies, many of which used to work exclusively outside US borders but, over the past seven years, have seen their missions change and are now spying on you and me -- and using our money to do it.

Almost as bad, 20.5 percent -- that's the percentage applied to pay just the interest on the massive debt load various republican administrations have inflicted on us as a result of their obsession with plundering the country and transferring the loot to the rich.

Or, as the Concord Coalition puts it:

Spending for interest on the debt in fiscal year 2007 ($238 billion) equaled 20.5% of all individual income tax revenue and more than the net outlays for international affairs ($28.5 billion), general science, space and technology ($21.0 billion), agriculture ($19.6 billion), transportation ($73.0 billion), and education, training, employment and social services ($89.7 billion) combined.


Thanks, assholes. A little money for that other stuff would have been nice.

Every single federal program I support has either had its budget slashed to the point where it can barely function, has already been starved out of existence or, like single-payer health care, was never even born in the first place. But the missile defense shield is very much in business -- even though it's an unworkable and incredibly expensive faux defense program that exists exclusively to funnel yours and my tax money into the pockets of the usual swineherds who run or invest in DoD contractors.

Infrastructure, public education, public health, the social safety net -- dead or dying, in large part because the rich have opted out of their responsibilities as taxpaying citizens, stopped any pretense of creating US jobs in favor of stuffing their numbered accounts and buying massive properties all over the world, took the jobs they used to create and sent them off to low-wage countries with educated populations, never to return.

And nothing useful has replaced any of this. Instead of pointing fingers at the real problem, the elites propose that we all direct our hostility toward and place the blame on some target group for which they happily supply the bulls-eye -- "illegal" immigrants being the whipping boys du jour -- which absolves them of any blame for the situation.

And because most of us these days seem to be quasi-literate, undereducated, infinitely malleable, simplistic idiots who are easily conned into doing the elites' PR work for them, they've been incredibly successful at avoiding the Place Concorde, guillotine, Madame DeFarge and her knitting needles.

So the upward transfer of societal wealth from the pockets of "the people" to the offshore accounts of the ruling class continues apace. And drastically dropping the marginal rates to favor the rich has, in fact, gone a long way toward solidifying an already fairly rigid American caste system. Because that revenue is irreplaceable -- particularly under the current borrow, spend and print, war and conquest regime -- the infrastructure is also coming apart at the seams. It's gotten so bad that traveling around the US now recreates the experience of Third World living, without even having to leave the country.

The marginal tax rate has dropped from 91 percent, when Kennedy took office in 1961, to the current 35 percent for the top bracket. At least those people allegedly work for their money. Capital gains tax rates are truly disgusting and demonstrate to all America's national priorities.

Capital gains -- which is to say, return on investments made while performing "hurd wurk" like a few dips in the pool, browsing the Intertubes for free porn videos, topping off that cold Margarita, and making a few calls to a broker-slave, a few clicks on eTrade and leaving that one really important message for the outcall masseuse service... taxes on this exhausting, difficult, physically demanding "wurk" are taxed at rates that cap at 15 percent.

So, according to that model, who's more important in America: teachers and janitors and truckers and low-level civil servants? Or a bunch of lard-assed parasites who live off profits generated by the non-rich, pay a bare minimum for the governmental services they suck up and the publicly financed infrastructure they use every hour of every day, and wouldn't know an honest day's work if it dressed up like a giant poodle and humped their leg in broad daylight at an outdoor table for one.

I say they can all take the proverbial flying fuck at the moon. If we can't round them up and ship them all to Gitmo, at least raise the goddamn marginal earned income rates and double the capital gains top rate.

And while we're at it, instant execution for any rich bastard caught whining about "the death tax." The fewer silver-spoon, insulated, filthy rich little preppy brats flush with their own innate wonderfulness and secure in their sense of entitlement running around screwing up the landscape, the better.

I'll feel good about federal taxes the very minute they start paying for policies and programs that help the poor, as well as people of average means. It seems that one way to fund that stuff is by removing huge wads of cash from the pockets of the freeloading bastards who've managed to acquire nearly all the country's wealth without doing a damn thing to deserve it. And they still want more because, for the obscenely rich, there's no such thing as enough.

But that's just my opinion, and I've been fighting the class war in various ways for more than 40 years. My forehead's getting a little dinged up from bashing it against the wall for decades. But those Neanderthal brow ridges do help absorb the shock.


wp

Edited to correct formatting screwups
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Funny how all those people who bitch and moan endlessly about taxes
would be the first to bitch and moan if any program they benefit from were to be cut.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. of course
As much as I truly detest anything resembling "love it or leave it" arguments (because our nation is founded on "love it and improve it"), I have to think if someone dislikes living in a relatively stable society which allows for betterment of the individual yet also requires taxes, they should just go buy themselves a nice island somewhere and run it without revenue or become a hermit and drop out of society since the cost is so awful.
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nels25 Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Personaly I have no real problem with taxes
but they can not get so high that I can not afford to pay the rest of my bills and by that I mean normal mortgage, food, energy, insurance, you get the idea.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. well, of course
on the other hand it depends on how they are spent. If a slightly higher tax means I no longer have to pay insurance premiums to a company which will try to deny me coverage, that is money well spent, imo.
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nels25 Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Can't argue with that
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