A veterans newsletter debunks Vietnam myths with SOME "facts" that might be disputed here

[UTUSN]

The highlights are the ones that sound "off" to me. There are ten! or thirteen! MILLION fakers out there claiming to have served in-country?!1 Plus, how do you go down from 100,000 suicides to nine THOUSAND?!

*****QUOTE*******

http://post_119_gulfport_ms.tripod.com:80/rao1.html

VIETNAM CENSUS STATS: Some interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:

~ 1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of AUG 95 census figures.
~ In the AUG 95 census 9,492,958 Americans falsely claimed to have served in-country.
~ As of the August, 2000 Census, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. If this loss of 711,000 between '95 and '00 is accurate it equates to 390 deaths per day.
~ During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, four out of five who claim to be Vietnam vets are not.
~ The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
~ Atrocities: Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers per the Nixon Presidential Papers.
(Source: NM e-Veterans News 9 Jan 06 - Research accredited to Capt. Marshal Hanson, U.S.N.R (Ret.) & Statistical Source Capt. Scott Beaton)

VIETNAM COMMON MYTHS:

Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in WW II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.

Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population.
Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. The CDC Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial post-service period the rate of suicides is less.

Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Black fatality figures were proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war.

Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.

Myth: The Common belief in the U.S. is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.

Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as intense as in World War II.
Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7 million who served. Although the percent that died is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300% higher than in World War II ....75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24 hours, died.

Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972 was burned by Americans bombing Trang Bang.
Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air strike are incorrect. There were no Americans involved in any capacity. The Commanding General of TRAC at that time said Americans had nothing to do with controlling VNAF.

Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland said the war was a major military defeat for the VC and NVA. The United States did not lose the war in Vietnam, the South Vietnamese did.
(Source: NM e-Veterans News 9 Jan 06 - Research accredited to Capt. Marshal Hanson, U.S.N.R (Ret.) & Statistical Source Capt. Scott Beaton)

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[cliffordu]

1. This reminds me of a joke I wrote:

Q How many VietNam Veterans does it take to put in a light bulb??

A: 12

One to put in the lightbulb, 11 fakers to claim post traumatic stress disorder.

[mediaman007]

2. Where does it say that if George W. Bush* was president we would

have not pulled out, and we would have prevailed? (sarcasm)

[Hissyspit]

3. "The U.S. did not lose the Vietnam War, the South Vietnamese did."

Jesus Christ, what kind of bone-headed, desperate logic is that?

There are all kind of straw men arguments and there's all kinds of manipulation of data and desperate rationalization in that thing.

South vietnamese pilots were responsible for the bombing at Trang Bang that sent Kim Phuc running down the road with no clothes on. Yeah, and where did they get the Napalm?

[Warpy]

6. Same kind of bone headed, desperate logic

that claimed the "domino theory" was anything but a witless and simplistic view of a bunch of cloistered self-styled globalists in the bowels of the Pentagon. It had no basis in fact and did not happen once we were kicked out of Vietnam.

As for the number of volunteers in Vietnam, most of them "volunteered" for anything but the infantry as soon as they got that draft notice. It was seen as a better deal going in as a volunteer and maybe getting a non war gig than going in as a draftee and getting sent to get your ass shot off after 3 months' training.

[MADem]

4. Well, some of those facts are facts, and some of them are opinions....

and still others are "POV" perspectives. As a small example, the napalm that burnt Kim Phuc wasn't "Made in Vietnam." The US had a role in her injuries, regardless of the responsible delivery vehicle...which was probably a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) asset transferred to the South Vietnamese at no cost. Odds are excellent the US trained the pilots of said delivery vehicle, who erroneously dropped the napalm, as well.

I find it nonproductive to play that "My war is better than your war" game. Or "My war was harder/tougher/meaner than your war."

All wars suck and war is a racket...and that's a couple of facts!

[Bozita]

5. Hey, we won! We're number one! USA, USA! We're number one! USA, USA!

The rewriting of history is in full flower.

[UTUSN]

7. A Fish Called Wanda (1988): "We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!1"

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095159/quotes

Otto: You know your problem? You don't like winners.
Archie: Winners?
Otto: Yeah. Winners.
Archie: Winners, like North Vietnam?
Otto: Shut up. We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie.
Archie: (going into a cowboy-like drawl) I'm tellin' ya baby, they kicked your little ass there. Boy, they whooped yer hide REAL GOOD.

Otto: We didn't lose Vietnam. It was a tie!

********UNQUOTE*******

[Richard Steele]

8. The USA -CHOSE- to get involved in that conflict. So, if we didn't "win", we LOST.

That's just the first day of "Game Theory 101" right there.

[MiniMe]

9. August '95 Census?? Census was 1990 and 2000

What census was in 1995?

[ConsAreLiars]

10. So you agree with all the BullShit

that you did not highlight. My god, how fucked up and delusional is that shit you quoted? Some totally insane nonsense, and you dispute only a fraction?

[UTUSN]

13. A "highlight" is something that pokes one in the eye, the things that sounded over the top.

I do not have the numbers or facts at my disposal to dispute every last thing. YOUR comments certainly didn't present any "facts" besides insulting crap. Thanks for dropping in.


My second ship was built in Bremerton, and we lived off base in Seattle for about seven months. I don't remember Seattle-ites being so contentious.

[Elwood P Dowd]

11. When I saw the "2/3 were volunteers" I knew this was total bullshit.

I was drafted in the Army. Many of my friends, when facing the draft, joined the Air Force or Navy. Some joined the Army or Marines hoping for a decent school and assignment. Some went through college ROTC. Thousands of these so called "volunteers" ended up dead in Vietnam. Had there not been a draft, these people would have never even been in the fucking military. Several killed over there were lifers who chose the military as a career. Even with that crowd, I didn't know many who "volunteered" to go over to 'Nam and get fucking shot at. Total bullshit!

[timtom]

12. In 1966 many of our Marines

were draftees. And they didn't like it one bit.

[DemoTex]

14. When I processed through the Atlanta AFEES station in 1968 I saw ..

I saw a group of about 100 draftees in a large room who were lined up to be sworn in. They were told to count off, by fours (1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, etc), down the line.

That done, the Army NCO-HMFIC said, "All number fours, take two steps forward."

That done, the NCO-HMFIC said, "All number fours, report to Gunny Smith in the room next door for induction into the US Marine Corps! Have fun at Paris Island!"

I've never seen so many jaws drop to the chest position at the same time. It was truly sad.

So at that particular point in time, 25% of draftees at the Atlanta AFEES station were going into the USMC.