The American Economy is in BAD Shape

[JCMach1]

I know you guys are saying (no shit)... However, living outside the U.S. I was struck by just how bad things are... I am currently staying in Pittsburgh for a conference and I couldn't help by notice crumbling infrastructure everywhere. Also, I visited several local shopping areas and malls. Everything was either overpriced (new season stuff) or dirt cheap (last season and prices from the 1990's). I went into a typical shopping store (not Walmart, but close) and there were more employees than shoppers.

Yikes!

:(


What did this remind me of? Having never been to Pittsburgh before, the place reminded me a bit of Armenia. The sense of decay is definitely in the air of both places.

However, at least Armenia seemed to be growing a bit.

Seems like it was the people (and former people) of the US and USSR who lost the Cold War.

I am afraid it's capitalism that won (and not the good kind). Oh wait, it was Reagan that won it, RIGHT (well he's dead). :banghead:



PS Won't even hazard GDP, still too jetlagged.

[LSparkle]

1. Before going to Spain in the late '90s, I was told it was a "poor" country

but when I arrived there, I was amazed by how WELL everyone dressed, how clean
and modern the airports and subway stations were ... I was thinking, if this is
"poor," then sign me up! I'm sure Europe in general looks even better by
comparison now ...

[JCMach1]

3. It is very noticeable having lived in a country with REAL double-digit GDP

growth the last six years.

Things are very bad, indeed. Thank God I rented a KIA, I nearly passed-out at the gas prices.

[truedelphi]

4. I was told the same thing about Scandinavia in the late 1970's

Maybe some people's definition of "poor" is that the particular "poor" nation only spends 3% of their GNP on defense, the rest is spent on social services.

Like you - I am ready to sign up!

[Diclotican]

19. truedelphi

truedelphi

And in the 1970s and well long into the 1980s for the most part every single country in Scandinavia was poor compared to United States of Ameria.... I still remember all the trips to sweden, both as Holiday, and because we could get products, that was more expensive in Norway than in Sweden...Specially Sugar! Who cost half the price in Sweden, compared to Norway. And Chicken, who was illegal to take into Norway on some technical reason.. Well in many cases we still travel to Sweden for some products, but compared to the 1970s and 1980s Sweden was much richer than Norway... I don't know about Denmark, but I believe Denmark to be in the same shape as Sweden, richer and better than Norway...

Today, Sweden, Denmark, Norway. And in a broader prospect Finland and Iceland are by far one of the rich country in the world... And it looks, that United States are into some problems...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[tama]

24. If

in the game of musical chairs called "survival" Nordic countries will be the last to fail and fall, that makes me not happy. But to despice even more our today leader who swear in the name of neoliberalism and competition instead of compassion. Americanized as they have become like the rest of the world colonial elites.

[Diclotican]

37. tama

tama

It is up to the peopole to vote in the leader they want. And it look like the american public lately have been sleeping when the neo-cons of the world have taking the government, and turn it into something I guess no one believed to be...

Even here in the Nordic Countries we have our problems, but I hope we never come to the point, as you have been, when you may have to do some drastic to get your country back...

Capitalism are dangerous if you ask me.. Not that I don't believe in mens hard work can give them what they want. But rather that a system with no control, would kill the world before someone can do something with it.. Even Ian Smith, the writer of Wealth of nations was saying very clear, that capitalism have to be controlled, by a strong government who had the tool to stop abuses.. Today it looks like in US we have a government who doesn't care about abuses, but compared to many other country are saying very loud that abuse, abuse and more abuse are just good.. Because they _know_ that the ordinary "serfs" are not willing, or not daring enough to revolt, and do something against they who have the power... And as long they know the "serfs" are willing to risk something, but are sitting home and look at TV. Then they can do what they want...

Remember, it is not THAT long since the same people who are now talking about "squishing" the working class, was afraid about the Soviets, and was shaking in their bed when he Soviet was talking about world revolution.... The american working class, are a big one, and if the american public, wanted a change. Then the change will come, whatever the "elite" of the US are thinking or not...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[truedelphi]

26. I felt Norwegian food was expensive until I realized that if I ate the

Food natural to that environment, it was rather cheap.

Fish was cheap. And also reindeer steaks were very good and not as expensive as chicken.

What did appall me was that no one in Norway had ever heard of spices. Except for lemon pepper, salt, pepper and sometimes basil or oregano.

[JCMach1]

30. I already miss the spices!

I even add saffron to my tea.

[Diclotican]

32. JCMach1

JCMach1

That is rather wierd.. I use sugar in the tea.. And in some cases, little milk, but not saffron... Taste it good?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[Diclotican]

31. truedelphi

truedelphi

That is correct.. If you have to get food from long distances, and from other country, the food tend to be rather expensive.. Something like fresh vegetables and fruit cost more in the winter, then in the summer, because we have to import a lot of it in the winter seson... But in the autumn, or the fall, we have much vegetables and fruit, and the prise goes down... And I have to say, our fruit, specially apples are the best in the world.. But we have a lot of other fruit and vegetables, who are excellent in the autumn, and I am always looking forward to that time of the year, because of the many good food who are ave able at a reasonable price;)

Fish have been, in many cases the "stable food" in Norway.. Together with bread and other basis food... You would seldom find a family who are at an Norwegian origin who doesn't have bread on the breakfast table... I have never experienced another thing..
Reindeer steak is good (very very good) but rather expensive than let say the most of the fish you can get.. Even Salmon are less expensive than raindeer... And off course, if you are in the north of Norway, in Finmark and so on. The reindeer steak is less expensive then if you are in the area of Oslo... Because of the long way... And many who want a share...

Well, the food have being much more different than it was when you was in Norway I guess.. If you was ever to visit our country now, you would find out that our habits of eating have been changed rather interesting.. We have more spices in our eating habit today.. But even today, traditionally Norwegian food, are as they always have been;).. But in many cases the habit of eating have been changing for many year now.. Many new type of food have come to the country. And the sum of fabric food (processed food) have been going very much up, compared to 1978 when you was here... But still, in many homes, maybe the most of homes, the food are still made as it always have been. Maybe not on everyday, but on holidays, and on days that marks something. The traditionally food are still very much on the table... And even the men have coming out in the kitchen, to experience something.. Even in my own home, when Fårikål should be made, my old foster-father was the chef. And he made the best fårikål you could get everywhere in the world I guess;) When I made the dish, the taste is not exactly the same even if I use the same recepit...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[truedelphi]

45. I wish that I had known your family when I was there.

I never got to taste one of the more well known dishes of Fårikål -- and the best meal I had was when i was on an oceanographer's vessel out in the North Sea - they had everything but caviar.

What cracked me up (That is, made me laugh a lot) was that so much of the food stuffs came in toothpaste tubes. The mayonaise, and jelly and even processed things like devilled ham.

On the ship - they had everything but caviar. Salmon and other wonderful fishies!

[Diclotican]

46. truedelphi

truedelphi

Hehe, ok. Vel Fårikål is a very easy dish to make in fact... Just sheep meat and cabbage in lair over each other.. And then some pepper (whole pepper is best) and then boil it in some water, and a big casserole in a couple of hours.. Then you have dinner for 3 days to end... And it is pro bely best the last day, when you have all the rest of the meat, the cabbage and wel... You must try it out before you can say what it is.. It is a easy dish to made, with minimal work, And you have pro bely a dinner you never had tasted before:evilgrin:

Hm, yes many things can be made into stuff that come in toothpaste tubest. It is maybe the most easy way to transport it or something like that... I don't know;)

O YES. Salomon are a good fish to eat, many other are too excellent to eat.. When you live in a country as Norway, you tend to eat the food you have in your nature.. And even if it taste little difficult, it is good, when you are used to it...

I guess you worked in the Oil sector in Norway.. One of the many who helped Norway be a rich country:P: Thank you if you was;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[dysfunctional press]

34. spices have traditionally been used to cover the taste of rotting meat...

that's why the warmer the climate, the spicier the food/spices.

[KitSileya]

42. Pah!

Food in Norway is expensive if you don't earn Norwegian wages, that's how it is. Most surveys show that Norwegians work less minutes for their basket of goods than most other Europeans (I wouldn't dare even try to compare it to US wages.)

I can't disagree with you on the spices, tho'. It's gotten better, but still - consider, however, how that is the result of the geography and history of our country. Transporting spices so far, and into what was essentially a poor cousin of Denmark, made most spices except pepper too expensive to include in the traditional cooking.

[truedelphi]

44. I managed to find two or three boxes of Mexican Tacos, and

Enchilada sauce, and some other Mexican fixings and made a huge Mexican smorgasboard for all my Norwegian friends.

They chowed down like crazy. Often I realize that I passed up my real calling in life - to open a Mexican restaurant in Stavanger, Norway!

[Diclotican]

47. truedelphi

truedelphi

Hehe, We like that type of food.. It is not THAT along, in time that Tacos and a lot of other sorts of food was something we maybe not even know about. Or if we do know about it, we seldom eat it... And that is maybe the reason your Norwegian friends eat as they have never eat food before;)...

The whole Food thing have going some rapid advanced since 1978 I guess.. Many dishes, many restaurants.. Many foreign restaurants have opened in our Cities and made the whole affair of going of quit different from what it once was.. Today, you can choose between all different sorts of restaurants.. Chinese, Greece, Pakistani. Indian... Even an mongol restaurant, if you know where o go in Oslo;). And I know a place in Oslo, where you can eat so much you want, for ca 100 kr... Have been there some times.. And well I am not starving when I am living there:P Not the most fancy place but the food are good, and it is a clean place..

If you want, you can still come to Norway and open a Mexican restaurant in Norway.. And Stavanger is a good place to start a restaurant I guess

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[KitSileya]

49. Try Bergen instead.

We've only got two really crappy imitations of Mexican restaurants, and I'm really missing authentic Mexican food. I guess not many Mexicans want to settle in rainy Bergen :)

[Diclotican]

50. KitSileya

KitSileya

That is maybe the worst thing with Bergen. All the rain:P.. But if you are in the City, and it is not raining, Vestlandshovedstaden is a wonderfully place to be.. :) And the nature is just staggering... Amazing in many ways if I must say it..

We on the Østlandet doesn't have that type of nature in our back jard.. Even that we do have some great nature here too;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

ps, Ordtolkeren hadde ikke noe ord for vestlandshovedstaden og Østlandet:P

[KitSileya]

51. Try regional capital of the West Coast

and the East Coast.

Yes, the weather is beautiful right now, so everything is wonderful. When it rained 100 days running, it wasn't as fun.

[Diclotican]

52. KitSileya

KitSileya

True. That is good I guess

Yes Here to. After a lot of bad weather, it have sharpen up now. And today it was all sun and no skies at all here around Oslo.. Almost livening again after a rather wet, and not that funny winter. And hopefully it would be like this for a long time;).. The spring is wonderfully when it finally arrive I would say;)

100 Days with rain. That is rather hard to survive I guess.. But when you live in Bergen, you have to take it as it comes I guess.. Even if it means a lot of rain... Bergen is the "capital of rain" in Norway... Much because of the mountains who are around the City.. Weeth air from the North Sea are coming in, and stooping by the mountains.. And the water is then raining down, before the skies are traveling over the mountains, and going east over,... But Bergen is always a very fresh, nice locking City then, so something is good in Bergen too;)

I hope for a nice spring.. A nice May and then a good summer.. Without all this pollens.. That is not funny when you have allergy

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[truedelphi]

2. It's not quite Armenia - there are still things to buy on the shelves

But in six months, or perhaps immediately after the election, perhaps there won't even be things on the shelves.

We might well be looking back on this period of our lives as the time frame when we all had food on the table (at least most days)

[JCMach1]

5. Lots of stuff on the shelves there-- honestly

everything a consumer could want is available.

The similarities just really hit me because of visiting both places in the last few months.

[Cresent City Kid]

6. We haven't even bottomed out

Every thing we buy is shipped with diesel, which used to be cheaper than regular gas. We may see Soviet style empty shelves and food lines. A grim forecast, but with no foreseen drop in oil prices, it looks like a one-way dead-end street.

[OhioChick]

7. It probably looks like shit here

compared to the UAE, huh?

[JCMach1]

8. I seriously don't want it to sound insulting... it's not that

The empty retail and crumbling roads really hit me. Also, the airport with a huge percentage of gates STANDING EMPTY (US AIRWAYS pullout).

UAE has its own set of problems... trust me on that. The economy AT ALL LEVELS is just kicking on all cylinders there (it's not JUST oil money either- less than 1/2 of GDP in fact).

[TNOE]

9. Yea, thanks to the WORST PRESIDENT EVER

Its a miracle more bridges haven't crashed into the rivers.

[zonmoy]

10. What do you expect to see in a dying empire.

do you expect to see a robust economy and society or one in its death throes.

[JCMach1]

12. Don't even get me started on the Airlines- I took Delta because

the direct flight to Atlanta made it easier. It was an overpacked 777. If you have had the chance to compare the Airbus A-340 there is no competition on comfort. :( It was 16hrs of Delta hell followed by the usual missed connection in Atlanta.

The plane was also packed with soldiers and contractors coming home from Iraq. Things ARE NOT good there either. Most of the military guys only were on R&R. They were not finishing tours.


:(

[truedelphi]

25. At lest a few years ago, you could bring your own beverages and food aboard.

Back in 1993, I swore to myself that I would never again eat airline food.

That resulted from a flight from San Francisco to Chicago, during which they offered me a sandwich with this weird slimy green-grey meat. But it had a piece of cheese that looked rather decent.

So I stripped the mystery meat off the bread and ate the sandwich.

Coming back, on the same airlines, I was given the same mystery meat. But no Cheese! I asked the flight attendant why no cheese - she said that in an effort to keep flights cheap, only every other passenger got the cheese!

And she had no idea what made up the mystery meat. She was as clueless as me and all the other passengers around me as to what constituted the weird "animal" product.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

38. I actually like the 777 for comfort.

Just not the way Delta fits them out. I find all of Delta's planes horribly uncomfortable. I fly 777s on United all the time, and they're about the only airplane where I can actually get comfortable enough to sleep.

[Warpy]

11. Some of us know this. The rest have gotten used to it slowly

and still think this country leads the world in shiny new infrastructure.

This country is a PIT and it's getting worse.

Why, you ask, is it like this? How many billionaires are in this country? There is your answer. How many top executives get salaries and benefits in the tens of millions of dollars? There is your answer. What have tax revenues done with every tax cut to billionaires and over fed executives? There is your answer.

The public realm has been STARVED for the past forty years of conservative rule while public wealth has been shoved at a few already insanely rich men.

What do we do about it? When you fully realize what has happened and why, you have your answer.

[PA Democrat]

13. Pittsburgh has never really recovered from the loss of the steel industry.

Pittsburgh was I believe ranked second for the number of corporate headquarters of Fortune 500 companies in the early 80's. Many moved out during the 1980's and 1990's. The city's financial situation has become so dire that the state took control of the city's finances back in 2003.

There has been a growth in technology jobs, but Pittsburgh is still hurting. Still, despite all of that it was ranked as the country's most livable city on 2007 by the Places Rated Almanac.

[JCMach1]

Hey, but I did score some great souvenir Steelers stuff on the Cheap!

It's not all bad :)

Oh, and had a local chain sandwhich that was yummy. Spamantis (or Dimantis; just too lagged) I think was the name.

[PA Democrat]

18. Primanti Brothers, with the cole slaw on the sandwich?

Good stuff.

You're right about the roads, they are always in bad shape despite what seems like constant construction. And I always get just a little nervous driving across the bridges. They recently shut one down when it was discovered that a portion of the bridge deck had dropped 8 inches. PA needs to put money into infrastructure.

[JCMach1]

20. scary about the bridge...

:hi:

[zonmoy]

21. better than the bridge collapsing though

which almost happened under my brother in law in minnesota. The bridge collapsed shortly before he would have crossed it. things are getting bad all over our country.

[Beausoleil]

40. My parents had just crossed that bridge

a couple hours before the collapse. My brother's little girl was with them at the time.

That was quite a shock, they were just there on vacation.

[spinbaby]

14. Hey, welcome to Pittsburgh!

Pittsburgh is actually in pretty good shape as American cities go. You should see Detroit!

Don't miss the dinosaurs at the Carnegie. They're the best in the world.

[JCMach1]

15. Apart from the roads, the city looks great...

just disintegrating quietly in Bush's America...

[eShirl]

22. The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit

http://www.detroityes.com/interact/prologue.htm

classic internet website

[raccoon]

41. Thanks for the link. nt

[marmar]

16. The United States is like an aging movie star.....

....Clinging to past glory, unable to accept that its headliner days are over.

[JCMach1]

17. I was hoping for a little more than Judy Garland though

:(

[hatrack]

53. Hell, the way things are going, we'll be lucky to hit Liza Minnelli status . . .

Gabby Hayes might be more appropriate, given the whole cowboy thing.

:eyes:

[enid602]

23. UAE

Doesn't the UAE employ foreign labor for about 40c an hour, or is that just Dubai?

[JCMach1]

28. That's one of the problems...

Of course most are coming from places where $1 per day or less is common per capita... (India, Nepal, Phillipines, Bangladesh, Africa).

That doesn't justify it, but does explain it somewhat.

[Xenotime]

27. the US is a dump compared to other countries

Their economy and healtcare programs are strong and the people are happy.

[JCMach1]

29. Healthcare is a nightmare in the States

The year I left (6 years ago) my insurance was going up to $900 for my whole family. That doesn't count what the employer payed. And that was for a Government job!

[Imagevision]

33. Unfortunately we haven't botoomed out yet, 50,000 more families were foreclosed on in March

[dysfunctional press]

36. not every foreclosure represents a family out on the street- not by a long shot.

LOTS and LOTS of the foreclosures are happening to speculators who had hoped to get-rich-quick in real estate.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. The infrastructure in PA has been bad and getting worse for years.

It has little to do with the current state of the American economy as a whole and a lot to do with the state of the Pennsylvania economy which has been terrible for years, abyssmal management of infrastructure upgrade projects by the state, use of improper construction techniques for PA's climate, and the fact that PA has an astronomical number of miles of road per capita.

[poppysgal]

39. third world country?

Thank you Mr. Bush, I always wanted to experience recession-depression and suppression.:scared:

[bdamomma]

43. JCMach1 have you lived in Armenia, my cousin lives there

and he loves it. Living outside the US, gives you a different perspective of how bad things really are in the US. And one thing that people in the US have to realize whatever they do, does have an affect on other countries and people, to those people who are walking around in denial wake the hell up (excluding DU'ers of course). We are feeling the consequences too, of that sick SOB *.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. Here in Minneaolis, I'm seeing a lot more vacant storefronts

A couple of my favorite restaurants in the Uptown area were forced to move because their building is being remodeled, but two others just plain went out of business.

It's scary, and no one official seems to be interested in doing anything about it.

I do a lot of translation that originates in Japan, including translation for agencies that have contracts with Japanese local governments, and what strikes me about these Japanese local governments is that they're (gasp!) thinking about the future. They're saying, "Our society is aging. What does that mean for everyday life and how do we deal with it? Our birthrate has fallen below replacement level. What obstacles are preventing people from having children? How can we minimize our carbon footprint? How can we get people involved in all these efforts?" and so on and so on.