Democrats must "emphatically distance themselves from the left’s antics and excesses"

[madfloridian]

Here we go again. Another election coming up this year, and the vigilant National Security Democrats are on the alert. They are pumping up John McCain's credentials, while pointing out that our two candidates need to push harder to show they will keep America safe.

Shame on Will Marshall for giving McCain such compliments. This is the kind of thing this bunch did in 2003. They started to push our Democrats to sound strong and sure. They marginalized the "left" in the party, just as they are doing now.

Confronting the Security Gap

But McCain also has a substantive asset that’s helping him defy political gravity: his reputation as a military hero and security expert. As a new Democracy Corps poll documents, these attributes appeal to a significant swath of voters - including many Democrats - who have lingering doubts about Democrats’ respect for the military and willingness to use force when necessary.These voters, 12 percent of the electorate, want to support a Democrat for president but hold back because of such qualms. As a result, McCain leads both Clinton and Obama in the D-Corps survey (although other polls show the race a dead heat). The bad news for Democrats is that most of these voters are defectors: 57 percent describe themselves as moderate-to-conservative Democrats, while 29 percent are independents.

Is he saying that 57% of the 12% are Democrats who don't trust their party on national security? I just don't believe that. Maybe in 2002, 2003, and 2004....more were really in fear then than now.

This is Carville's firm.

Founders
James Carville
Stanley B. Greenberg

Executive Director
Jim Gerstein

Senior Adviser
Karl Agne

Professional Staff
Ana Iparraguirre
Jesse Contario
Michael Gaffney
http://www.democracycorps.com/about/

I would take the polls of Democracy Corps more seriously if Carville had not accused Dean of sabotaging the election in 2006...the election we won.

More from Will Marshall.

Republicans retain many of their old advantages, while Democrats are still dogged by impressions of weakness and irresolution. Republicans, for example, have a whopping 29-point advantage on “ensuring a strong military.” By margins nearly as large, voters believe the GOP “respects the military” more than Democrats and say Democrats are “not decisive enough in a crisis.”

These are sobering findings, and party leaders ought to keep them in mind this week as General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker report to Congress on the situation in Iraq. Democrats should carefully distinguish between the Bush administration’s strategic incoherence and the tactical success of the U.S. military’s counterinsurgency campaign, which has lowered the level of violence in Iraq significantly, and, in tandem with the Sunni “awakening,” has thrown al Qaida in Iraq on the defensive.

Then Will Marshall includes this statement, and I wholeheartedly disagree. He is just not being realistic.

Only 18 percent of Americans favor the anti-war left’s demand for an immediate and total pullout. In fact, Democrats should emphatically distance themselves from the left’s antics and excesses, such as MoveOn.org’s sophomoric attack last fall on “General Betray Us.”

...They (Democrats) must also seize every opportunity to reassure Americans that their opposition to the Bush-McCain quest for an ill-defined “victory” in Iraq in no way implies disrespect for the U.S. military, or an unwillingness to use it vigorously to keep Americans safe.

I think most Americans have gone beyond this mindset. I think he has his own agenda.

I simply do not believe that. This article was written April 9. I just do not believe those words.

[Cresent City Kid]

1. Yup

"Is he saying that 57% of the 12% are Democrats who don't trust their party on national security?"

I had to look twice because the numbers are given in a convoluted way, but yes, that's what he's saying. I also disagree.

I think there are more people worried about the Republicans using force when it's not necessary than those worrying about Democrats not using force when it is necessary.

[tavalon]

2. I think we pretty well know that James Carville is not our friend

[L0oniX]

29. He's a total ass carrot

[eShirl]

3. let the republicans distance themselves from the right's "antics and excesses" first

ha, yeah right

[ljm2002]

13. Pre-cisely!

Why the Democrats never get this, is beyond me.

[StClone]

31. Dividing us with this "Left" vs Dem crap

Americans are moderate to Left but too manipulated to know any better.

[GeorgeGist]

4. I think Americans should emphatically distance themselves ...

from America's crimes against humanity. They could start by sacrificing Bush/Cheney on Ground Zero.

[scarletwoman]

5. Will Marshall is a PNAC signatory. He's no Democrat, he's a neocon.

Yes, I know he is supposedly a Democrat, but he's one of the cancerous DLC infiltrators.

He was one of the signers of the PNAC letter to Bill Clinton in 1997 urging him to attack Iraq.

In a just world, Will Marshall (and his ilk) would be expunged from the Democratic Party. He's a warmongering rightwing scum.

sw

[lonestarnot]

6. And Will Marshall would like to see "Marshall" law.

And don't jump on me for spelling.

[scarletwoman]

7. LOL!

No problem, I got what you were doing.

[Echo In Light]

8. The % of those who favor total "pull out" is likely marginal, given the huge propaganda

I suspect the powers that be are quite aware of the divide among the liberal left, and the middle road moderates who are simply that much closer to rightist aims/goals, and wish to trivialize the "crazy antics" of the genuine left due to its numbers growing.

[gratuitous]

9. Oh noes! 12% dissatisfied!

Well, that's certainly reason enough to jettison Democratic principles, because we must win over this mythical 12% of the electorate that are holding back from supporting a Democrat because of undefined qualms about whether a Democratic president would use the military as a first response rather than as a last resort.

Piffle. I hope there aren't any Democratic candidates stupid enough to fall for this line of "reasoning."

[Echo In Light]

11. Do you believe they make up their own minds re such issues?

[gratuitous]

12. Oops, you lost me

Are you talking about candidates making up their own minds? Or voters? Because it's been my experience that even savvy candidates can be fooled by such piffle as this, and make an intemperate statement about "pre-emptive war" (or whatever the locution of the day is to avoid calling a crime against humanity a crime against humanity). And the intemperate statement, supposedly designed to allay the amorphous fears of this mythical 12% who want a commander in chief who will commit to dropping nuclear bombs on civilian populations, will instead alienate their own base while not convincing the unconvinceable 12%.

[Echo In Light]

38. Since there isn't much of a left here, I suspect many "electable" candidates' views are scripted...

...by their handlers, speech writers, etc, who understand which slight variation on a theme their product is attempting to sell. Much like an actor playing a role, the politician's actual subjective views may likely not be fully represented in the mask/persona they adopt. I hear you though on the points you've made.

[L. Coyote]

10. Expect the Mighty Wurlitzer to try to divide the DEMs. Ignore it, don't feed it!

And, never forget Chicago '68, or WHO was actually behind
the "antics and excesses" and how the "antics and excesses"
impacted the election and when the war ended.

The ratf**king provocateurs remain at work, obviously.

[annabanana]

14. Marshall is NOT a democrat.. He works AGAINST US!

He must be marginalized and challenged at every turn.

[madfloridian]

37. I know. I had to call him one cause he works at a Dem think tank

:evilgrin:

[Individualist]

15. "I think he has his own agenda"

No doubt whatever about that; it's DLC all the way.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295.html

[madfloridian]

20. Marshall was one of the worst culprits pushing the war.

From your link:

"The PPI has a vision of national security that extends to fostering democracy and freedom around the world in "the belief that America can best defend itself by building a world safe for individual liberty and democracy." It's likely that PNAC itself would heartily agree with this PPI comment: "While some complain that the Bush administration has been too radical in recasting America's national security strategy, we believe it has not been ambitious or imaginative enough."

In articles in Blueprint and in other media outlets, Marshall has struck out at Democrats who have either opposed the Iraq invasion or called for a U.S. pullout. As he told the Los Angeles Times in the run-up to the 2004 election: "You hear way too much from the Democrats in this race about turning over the whole mess to the UN. Well, that's not credible and most people know it. It doesn't have the power to achieve the only outcome we can accept" (Los Angeles Times, December 4, 2003)."

[bbgrunt]

16. thanks madfloridian! you educate us all.

[VP505]

17. I don't believe Will Marshall either,

the so called Democratic weak on defense is a made up notion created by Reich wing nuts as propaganda used to scare people into changing their vote to support people who are more interested in protecting wealth rather than people.

[noise]

18. Left=people who refuse to cheerlead for fascists

The propaganda of the right is to the point where people opposed to torture are considered 'fringe leftists.'

I would love for Marshall to watch No End in Sight and then brag about the GOP's support of soldiers.

[dkofos]

19. I would bet they are heavily invested in the MIC (militay industrial complex)

[madrchsod]

21. we need this guy as the vice president!

or a guy like this---http://www.geocities.com/lemaycurtis/
General Curtis LeMay - Demented Cold Warrior

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. Starting a war and bringing down the economy

aren't antics, they're crimes.

I'll stick with the 'antics' side, thanks.

[jmondine]

23. I go beyond simply not believing it

It is totally, completely, hogwash. It's this type of careful, wishy-washy tiptoeing that gives the congress such low approval numbers.

"They (Democrats) must also seize every opportunity to reassure Americans that their opposition to the Bush-McCain quest for an ill-defined “victory” in Iraq in no way implies disrespect for the U.S. military, or an unwillingness to use it vigorously to keep Americans safe." Bullshit. Doing so only validates the lie that the right wing has a leg to stand on to hurl these accusations. What Marshall is doing is setting up the Dems to once again validate the Right's propaganda while soft-pedaling ourselves as a milder (and therefore a perceived weaker) opportunity. It's like saying that since the public believes we're "weak", let's make damn sure that we prove it to them.

I have to point out something here. Every single stereotype that the right wing uses against us isn't just not true about us, it is blatantly true about them.

It is time to turn Rove's own technique against his ilk, and attack the Right's strength. Republicans are more willing to use the military "when necessary" !? They've spent the past five years hobbling our military in a war of CHOICE, ensuring that there's no way in hell they'll be READY for an actual war of "necessity".

Be bold, hard, and direct. The Republicans, McCain included, don't give a rat's ass about anything except their own bottom line. They will, and have, gladly weaken our military, dishonor and disrespect our troops, and lie like cowardly weasels to the American public to cover their own ass.

We must constantly, relentlessly, point at the Republicans' supposed "toughness" and laugh. Only when the public truly understands what a bunch of spoiled, entitled, elitist, deluded, spineless lying cowards the right wing is will we be able to shake this ridiculous notion that stubbornness, bullying, and gall somehow implies strength, courage, and determination. Then we can stand back and watch in satisfaction as the neocons slink away whimpering back into the slimeholes from whence they came.

[Demeter]

24. Some Washington Post Pundit Called Olbermann A Raving Lunatic on NPR

comparing him to Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

If calling Bush a fascist is considered lunatic, then all truth is nonsense and hyperbole.

[ooglymoogly]

26. On the money...What happened to Olbermann last night

I did not see it.

[depakid]

34. I think that reflects more on the sorry state of the Post

which has become a laughing stock to most anyone who still pays attention to what they print....

[ooglymoogly]

25. Like many talking heads who call themselves Dem's, Will Marshall is a dem Uncle Tom

The pugs trot him out when they need to get a point across under the Dem Banner that would be meaningless under their own, while also making themselves look oh so fair and balanced. These are very dangerous people.

[defendandprotect]

27. James Carville should be a dirty word in the Democratic Party . . .

[defendandprotect]

28. Also, should there be somehow a GOP win, it will only have to do with computers/steals ----

It would be nonsense to think that anyone is going to vote for more Republican rule --- !!!

Yeah, there are Fundies and there are hawk-freaks --- but most of us want OUT of this ---
the war and the fascism ---

[tnlefty]

33. I might have gotten myself into a slight bind the other night...

I was at a board meeting for my county and during the meeting it was mentioned that Carville would be the speaker at the Knox Co., TN dems Truman Day Dinner which is a fundraiser for them. I rolled my eyes during the meeting. Afterwards someone asked me if I was planning to attend and I said, "I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on James Carville, much less pay $60.00, drive 2 hours to hear him speak." The shocked look was priceless, but I'm sure what I said was mentioned to others.

[Telly Savalas]

30. The Left's antics and excesses?

The far left may do some goofy shit, but I've never seen them hold a Compassion Forum and ask about 12th century Christian metaphysics.

[madfloridian]

32. Amen, hallelujah...this recovering Southern Baptist agrees with you.

Our candidates should not have been subjected to that.

[readmoreoften]

35. The left? There's a left in America? Oh, right, that thing they call the center everywhere else.

That's the left over here. I totally keep forgetting. :sarcasm:

[BobTheSubgenius]

36. They sound almost like push polls to me.

[Gman]

39. Every time the Democratic Party has embraced the far left

they have lost. It's best to treat the far left as if they were radioactive.

[TechBear_Seattle]

43. Indeed, that is why the Democrats lost the White House in 2000 and 2004

They embraced the far left, allowing George W. Bush to get elected not once, but twice.

:eyes:

[NorthCarolina]

47. I'm curious what your definition of the "far left" is?

In other words, exactly what issues do you see as defining the "far left"? Or, to put it yet another way, what issues supported by the "far left" do you feel caused Democrats to lose?

[HughBeaumont]

40. Excesses????

Riiiiiiiiiight, because the center and the right-wing are paragons in fiscal responsibility . . . what with all the blank checks they give to Bewsh's Bloodbath and the Pentasewer . . . :eyes:

Why do we care what neo-lib clowns like Will Marshall and Jimmy Carvill have to say?

[BreweryYardRat]

41. Hoooorse shit.

Wussing out and listening to that stupid bastard will drive people over to the Repubs.

[TechBear_Seattle]

42. Isnt' that why Democrats keep losing elections?

They go pandering to the right, leaving the progressives, liberals and working class folks who should be their base flapping in the wind and feeling unrepresented?

[Echo In Light]

44. EXACTLY. "America has ONE political party with TWO right wings." Gore Vidal

[NorthCarolina]

48. Isn't this post in direct conflict with your prior post, #39 ? nt

[TechBear_Seattle]

49. I'm not GMan. n/t

[NorthCarolina]

50. Sorry, my bad..I meant to reference your post #43

but for some reason incorrectly referred to post #39

[TechBear_Seattle]

51. I would have thought the rolling eyes made the sarcasm self-evident

Apologies for not having slapped the readers in the face with a :sarcasm: tag. :eyes:

[NorthCarolina]

52. Well it can be difficult to tell whats real and whats sarcasm on this site sometimes nt

[iamthebandfanman]

45. dont worry , no matter what

they will shun us like 'the red headed step son' when all this is said and done.

frankly i think we are already being ignored.

and thus, you have the reason for people like ralph nader trying to run.

the democrats have NEVER been as friendly with their left base as the republicans have with the religious right.

[madfloridian]

53. Very true. The DLC efforts in the late 80s paid off

They hijacked the agenda before anyone knew it...and they have been in control ever since.

[LWolf]

46. I believe that Democrats have already been doing so quite

obediently for the last 2 decades.