So, who killed Davey Moore?

[otherlander]

As a lot of you have already heard, Bob Dylan just won a Pulitzer. :woohoo:
So I was listening to this old '63 video of him singing Who Killed Davey Moore:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=62daicHQ9as
"It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

It's what everyone says. It's what everyone likes to believe. Everyone loves to have a scapegoat. It's why, time after time, dictators can unite huge numbers of people in hatred against smaller and less powerful groups of people. We here at DU are somewhat more... enlightened about it. We don't blame the weak; we blame the powerful. Which is an improvement. But don't the few powerful people only have the power that many ordinary people give them?

I was hesitant to post this thread because I thought, on the chance that it didn't just sink, people would get angry because they'd think I was defending our enemies. You know, the corrupt politicians, the gods of the free market. But I'm not defending any of them. Really. I'm not going to get into talking about what human nature can do in the absence of bad powerful leaders, driven by mob mentality, pain, and fear of the unknown. That's another thread for another day. Maybe two other threads. But what I wanted to suggest here- *prepares to duck*- is that this murderous system we have, whatever name we give it: The system, the Man, the Combine as Kesey called it, isn't a result of a few elites plotting to exploit everyone, but a conglomerate made up of actions and consequences that many people are responsible for.

Before I keep talking, I should probably clarify what I see as the bad effects of the system that our society is following. I think it can be broken down into three main categories of harmful acts:
1. Economic warfare: Indirectly killing/harming people by depriving them of resources
2. Directly killing/attacking people: War, police brutality, assassinations, etc.
3. Unnecessary restrictions of liberty: Not accepting certain harmless differences, or treating people inferiorly because of them. Gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.

There was something I read in some writing by the Quakers once about how they saw it as their responsibility to support the system insofar as it helped people and oppose the system insofar as it harmed people. So I kind of took that as a frame to work within. If these are the problems of the system, then the goal would be to create a system with equal access to resources that lets people exist as they wish to without harming others. But the powers that be won't let this be. They keep a violent, unfair, restrictive system in place. And I wanted to talk about where these powers come from, and who is responsible for them.

There is very little that one person can do to destroy the world if nobody helps him. He could singlehandedly kill a lot of people, but he would be stopped if nobody came to his defense. (I use the male pronouns for convenience only, FYI.) So when talking about things like sweatshops and slave labor, isn't it kind of a cop-out to blame it entirely on the business owners? Isn't responsibility shared by anyone who buys the resulting products?
Or to blame pollution entirely on large corporations, when so many ordinary Americans make the unnecessary choice to use toxic chemicals on their lawns to kill harmless plants and buy S.U.V.'s to compensate for... you know? :evilgrin:

The Washington Post breaks a story that the Bush administration is sending people to secret jails, and people continue to VOTE FOR THEM? The New York Times, the largest circulating legitimate non-tabloid newspaper in the most powerful country in the world, breaks a story that Chiquita is paying death squads to off union leaders, and people continue to BUY THEIR SHIT? Granted, the other fruit companies are probably hardly any better, but don't you think that people could at least send the message that there will be a backlash if a *national newspaper* announces that you're giving money to terrorists?

Maybe instead of trying to figure out how to fight The Man, the question should be how to stop being The Man.

[midnight]

1. I think the solution is simple-it's called equality.

We could suggest people try it, because they might like it.

[msedano]

2. who killed norma jean?

point being that, like davey moore's dirge, so much of what we see is a re-run, a rehash, a MOS. to quote another dylan song, "when will they ever learn?"

[DCKit]

3. Note to self: buy a banana tree.

Well stated otherlander.

[otherlander]

6. Thanks, DCKit

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

4. Say wha?

"equal access to resources that lets people exist as they wish to without harming others. But the powers that be won't let this be. They keep a violent, unfair, restrictive system in place. And I wanted to talk about where these powers come from, and who is responsible for them." If this can't be accomplished on a micro scale, or even as a singular unit, how then can it be managed at the macro level? Pipedream...

[otherlander]

5. I'm not saying that anyone has the power

to turn things around singlehandedly. I'm saying that people are responsible for their own actions and ordinary people enable the destructive nature of our social system by the choices they make. I'm not attacking people who have to buy things made in China because they can't afford the other stuff. I understand that some people are kind of trapped in the roles they play and I'm not going after them. But who has to put pesticides on their lawn? Who has to drive an SUV? Who has to buy their gasoline from Exxon when other places cost about the same?

[H2O Man]

7. Sugar Ramos n/t