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Secret Military Memo Confirms "UNBELIEVABLE" Fallujah Gulag

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 06:45 AM
Original message
Secret Military Memo Confirms "UNBELIEVABLE" Fallujah Gulag
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 06:48 AM by kpete
SECRET MILITARY MEMO CONFIRMS "UNBELIEVABLE" FALLUJAH GULAG

Today the transparency group Wikileaks released a classified military memo exposing horrific conditions in Iraq's Fallujah jail.

The document, written last month by the commander of U.S forces in western Iraq, Maj. Gen. John Kelly, describes "unbelievable overcrowding, total lack of anything approaching even minimal levels of hygiene for human beings, no food, little water, no ventilation... There is zero support from the (Iraqi) government for any of the jails in Anbar. No funds, food or medical support has been provided from any ministry." and says "We need to go to general quarters on this issue right now... To state that the current system is broken would erroneously imply that there is a system in place to be broken."

The jail is situated next to the U.S. Joint Communications Center in downtown Fallujah. It was built in 2005 by U.S. contractors to house 110 prisoners, but now reportedly holds around 900, mostly awaiting trial or transfer to Baghdad.

The document has been privately verified by Wikileaks staff and not was denied by MNF-W when questioned by UPI's national security editor, Shaun Waterman.

See http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Classified_memo_from_US_Maj._Gen._Kelly_confir...
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Fallujah_jail_challenges_US
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Fallujah_background
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_and_Abu_Ghraib_scuttled_US_war_in_F...

Text version of the leaked memo by Commander Kelly:

I spent the entire day inspecting the Fallujah city jail. I found the conditions there to be exactly (unbelivable over crowding, total lack of anything approaching even minimal levels of hygiene for human beings, no food, little water, no ventilation) to those described in the recent (18 February) FOX news artickle by Michael Totten entitled the "Dungeon of Fallujah". When queried the iraqis and marines present throughout my inspection as to why these conditions existed, three conditions were universaly cited as problems in Fallujah as well as the rest of Anbar. First, there is zero support from the government for any of the jails in Anbar. No funds, food or medical support has been provided from any ministry. Second, the police that run Anbar's jails are the same personnel responsable for investigating crimes. These jailer/investigators are undermanned and more often than not spend most of their time out begging and scavenging for food than investigating crimes. (It is unlik
ely the prisoners will eat today). Third, Anbar lacks trained Iraqi correctional officers (ICOS) to run the jails in Anbar. The development and employment of trained ICOS would enable the IP to focus on criminal investigation rather then jail supervision. I believe the Iraqi police are doing the best they can, and they literally begged me on humanitarian, moral and religious grounds to help them help the prisoners by somehow moving the government to action.

We need to go to general quarters on this issue right now. There are four areas that MNF-W needs immediate support with to correst these deficiencies. First, GOI must provide funfing support to provide care for Iraqi prisoners in Iraqi custody in Anbar. To state that the current system is broken would erroneously imply that there is a system in place to be broken. Most jails in Anbar have a mixed prisoner population of pre-trial prisoners and post-trial convicted prisoners. The ministry of Justice the latter. Since the Anbar jail population is mixed of interior and the ministry of Justice (MOJ). Second, Anbar needs ICO trainers to establish an ICO course in Anbar to develop and employ that capability province wide. Third, Anbar lacks a director general of MOJ for the province. Anbar needs one appointed and working in Anbar as soon as possible. Fourth, Iraqi security force funds (ISFF) must be made available to upgrade a majority of the correctional facilities within Anbar to
comply with basic international standarts of care for prisoners.

One of the main goals of MNF-W is to successfully transition the IP from a security force to a professional law enforcement force. The Iraqi police will ultimately be the ones whose shoulders the burden of winning or losing the fight will be carried. To date, little attention has been paid to the Iraqi corrections system in Anbar and its current discrepancies will prevent the IP from becoming a professional law enforcement force unless immediate and significant support is provided. As I understand it the coalition has absolutely no authority to direct what goes on in these "facilities", and when we have intervened recently in other jails with the same conditions we have been criticized for not making the Iraqis solve their own problems. The conditions in these jails are so bad that I think we need to either take a TF-134 approach and that is to do the right thing in terms of caring for the prisoners even with our own dollars, or release them.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/32205
and:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_jason_le_080327_classified_memo_reve.htm
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. how does an OP get 16 recommendations with NO discussion at all...?
This is why Wikileaks is so important. This is the sort of information that the media and the government works so hard to suppress.

As for the story itself, why am I not surprised? The U.S. has created a monster in Iraq that it must either feed and care for constantly or watch it spiral out of control becoming more and more self destructive and worse than the regime it was meant to replace. Is there any doubt that Iraqis were better off under Saddam Hussein's leadership than under that of the puppet gov't or the American occupation?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. The U.S. has created a monster in Iraq
Has created as in "RESPONSIBLE FOR"
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. We don't want our country to be carried forward by
more of this crap. McCain will let these atrocities continue. He is as wickedly power hungry as the slime that has sold out our country. We must pick our leader and stand by them!! Our leader will change this horrible mistake that we have called the * administration.

Shame on them.... It's time to say, "No More Republicans" in Public office.

:kick:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Because this is no surprise anymore!
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Not much left to say except:
Arrest the Criminals and Stop the Crimes!
:grr:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. It's hard to find anything to say about this without using the word
Impeachment

:grr:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Cmdr. Kelly needs some serious English spelling and grammar lessons. n/t
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Is everyone still supporting the troops? Including the ones running that jail (and other jails)?
Just curious.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I support the troops generally
I don't support the criminally lax, corrupt, uncaring and frankly murderous chain of command that continues to make this abuse possible, or anyone who willingly (and in some cases eagerly) takes part in it.

Bush** is the kingpin.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. The troops are following orders.
They aren't the ones making the policies.
So yes, I support the majority of the troops, and I wish they could all come home right now.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:23 PM
Original message
"The Troops" aren't running this jail
The Iraqi police are in charge of this atrocity. If the article is correct, they have no money, no training and no hope. Which means the prisoners have no food, no soap and, again, no hope.

OTOH, if the US was running this jail, they MIGHT be able to get a sandwich slipped in there every once in a while. You gotta make things nice and pretty so one of Shrub's buddies in the Prison Business will take the place over, see?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. GULAG CREMATORIUM
Do these words sound familiar to anyone else?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. So much for the other words "We will never forget!" n/t
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I wonder why
they don't use all the weapons at their disposal?

I know there are weapons that use radio/microwave that can cripple and/or kill. Maybe they only use these on American citizens.
Seems good for crowd control though. Maybe once the military get them fine tuned they plan on using them on the "enemy."

oops, the OP was about a Gulag and lies.
Thanks for the links.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. Regardless of any wrongdoing these prisoners may or may not have done,
they are fellow human beings and should be immediately cared for. Doesn't the U.N. step in on these situations? If not then what good is the U.N.? I'm ignorant, I don't know about how these organizations operate, but I do know the simple truth of basic humanity, something that seems to be forgotten in these situations. These people are fellow humans. They are US.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The UN won't
send peace keeping forces into an occupied country.
Once we leave, they'll go in.
It's a lie that when we leave Iraq will "collapse" and become Iran West, it's just more politics of fear.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. It is all politics of fear.
All I see are lies and manipulation of fear. It is all a money-making scam. There are so many more compassionate and intelligent approaches that can be taken to "Promote Democracy" in the world.

These war games conducted by our fearless "leaders" (war-pig scum-thugs), suck life from us and our planet to line the coffers of the few.

So I assume that the U.N. is just a mop-up crew.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Bush league justice does not recognize what's human--only what's political: ask Muk Muk
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. balantz
balantz

Why should UN, aka the rest of the world, outside Iraq and US step in, and do something. This is a monster mr Bush, and mr Cheney, and mr Blair made. And if anyone should do something to do this better, it would be The United States of America and it will be The United Kingdom of Britannia, aka UK. You may get some help from the other, you bribed, treatment and otherwise manage to get on the bandwagon in the Iraqi War in 2003...

Why should the rest of UN member states do something with this mess.. This US in origin, and this time around US should bear the responsibility to fix it. Even if it would cost US a lot of dollar, just to clean up, what we already know..

I am for one, who was called irrelevant, ignorant and other stuff before the war (on american sites by the way) because I blatantly refused to support a war I was seeing as illegal, as criminal and straight out wrong, from the start been in the need of helping US to clean it up. Why should UN, who once was made in the United States of America. And lot of american have hated since the end of the cold war go into Iraq, and feed this prisoner, this unlucky who have been arrested, and now are in Jeal. It is the OCCUPATION PARTIERS DUTY SO LONG THE OCCUPATION PARTY ARE IN SHARGE TO KEEP THE PRISONER, AND THE REST OF THE SOCIETY RUNNING.. And if you don't believe me, go to ICRC http://www.icrc.org/ and read yourself.

The whole thing in Iraq, are an american made disaster. And should it be to much to demand that the one who broke the country, should fix it?:. Hey once in time USA was standing for something.. USA managed to be there, when Europe needed to be rebuild ed after WW2. You managed it then, and to make friends where US have had enemies just 5-10 year before.. Today US can't even get the president to admit that he have destroyed the country, and REALLY NEED OTHERS TO HELP US SALVAGE WHAT IS SALVAGEABLE...

If you want UN, aka the rest of the world to help US salvage what can be salvaged in Iraq, US better humble yourself, and treat the rest of the world with some respect.. Today US don't reat UN, or the rest of the world with a little tiny of respect. And therefore US are stuck there.. With a population who are going more and more angry by the day, and more and more friendly to the groups US really don't want to have in Iraq...

Over 4000 american soldiers are killed in Iraq now, 5 year after the war started.. How many american are maimed for life, 40.000 50.000, maybe 100,000?.. I don't know. How many more would be killed, and how many more would be maimed for life, before this war is over`and the last american soldier are going back to the US?.. I have noe clue. But what I know is this is a war who should never have been started in the first place. This is a war who bordering to criminality. This is a war, who would go down as something the worst US have doing in their 232 year existence.. This is something the rest of the world should learn from.. And hopefully when the TRUTH are coming to the american media, after mr Bush are out of office. The american public, and their Representatives in Senate and Congress would to the most honorable ting to do. Make peace with the Iraq population. Send ALL armed forces home. Even "advices" Help rebuild Iraq from distance. Then start the criminal hearing into why this horrible thing could be doing. Arrest all the criminals, in a tribunal, preferable with the help of the International Criminal Court in HAAG. And then do what you should have been doing for a long time, get this criminals behind bars for their life.. And when they are DEAD burn their bones, and trow the ashes out over the Sea so they can't be heroes for others...

And the most important thing to do. LEARN the next generation the true meaning of governance. And learn the next generation, that blindly following your leader could end in presidency like George Walker Bush jr.... A Catastrophe for the world, a catastrophe for US..

Then the world, UN or otherwise, would take a collective free breath, and over time trust United States of America again.. As what it once was capable of be...

It maybe be just a dream.. But I hope this dream of my, would be manageable, and that the american public once and for all, learn that Freedom are not a thing you are born into. It is a right who many, many millions over the centuries have died for. In a hope that the next generation should have it little more easy then themself...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Well, when it pertains to "this mess" of people starving
then I would not be against any entity taking action in any way possible to alleviate the suffering. If you want to blame Americans for "this mess" then so be it. But it may just end up taking a concerted effort on a global scale to put a stop to the greed of the global corporations that are manufacturing "this mess" solely for control of profits for the elite who know no borders and answer to no Democracy.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
36.  balantz
balantz

Sir/madam

Once in the days, US was a country who could afford to give food away, almost for free to the needy people of Europe. And this was after a very devastating war, with almost no infrastructure and cities who was pretty well destroyed by war.. But even there the US, and others had a plan, who they manage to send out tonnes of food and other necessarily. For the European country.. US even managed to feed Berlin under the Berlin siege in 1948, where the soviet decided to close the border, to starve West-Berlin to submission... But today, you can't feed Iraq, when US managed to feed germans, both in the West-Germany and the West-Berlin when you just have a lot of old C46 and a lot of old DC3 and DC4 with just "so much" cargo hold...

Today, US should manage, with all the food they still produce in the heartland of US to feed the iraqi people who are not almost 80 millions as in Germany, but 23 million as in Iraq.. The old C-46 C-54 and the old DC3 and DC4 are all goon, and you have the big, C-5 Locked and B17 Globemaster (III) To really feed the starwing iraqi people. Why don't US even TRY to use it?

WHen US was helping The West Berlin in 1948, it was iconic to se the birds flying over the west-german, to feed them with food, and what ever a modern city needed. A food lift to Baghdad, and important iraqi city's where you was given food free, or with very low prices.. US could use little of the money you are bribing the extremist, so Mr Bush "surge" are proving its "true nature" to feed the hungry iraqi people..

But it is more important, to bribe the sunni/shia extremist, so mr Bush can "prove" that the "surge" is working, and that the War was right... And then he can tell the american public that he believe the war was right, and the he was right every time around.. Even that he have to BRIBE the extremist, by cold 900.000 US dollar each day....

This mess, are something US could manage to fix this, if they wanted it. But I guess if you would stand in a country, and working to dominate the rest of the region for the se-able future, you don't want the peace, and that the iraqi country and people itself take responsibility on Iraq. Better to have the iraqi by the neck. And decide what is best for them, even if it means that they have to starve, live in horrible condition, with sever running in the street and where the danger of going out are killing education to many bright youngsters.. A whole generation of Iraqi can mis critical education for the future... :sarcasm:

When it come to the elites who rule by dark deed and greeds, this is something I am afraid that we have to fight together to stop. But I am not sure what you referring to, when you are thinning about the elite, who rule by no bonds to border and answer not to democracy... I know many families are powerfully, and can influence what happened in a country's life.. But I am not sure this families are powerfully enough to rule behind the curtain, as the old court of the old monarchy... After all US was build around the refusal of a King, and a royal Cort... But I am sure some families have more power to shake around, than others... The real problem, that america are facing are not the families who rule without the democracy. But rather that the money needed to come into the race for presidency is horrible high this day. When you have to have that backing of millions of dollar, just to start your president al bidding... Then for the most part the whole concept of real Democracy are almost dead in the first case..

The same happened in the roman Republic, where the old rich families ruled the rest, because it was to hard for a commoner to try to be voted into the highest offices.. And in the end, just the Monarchy or the Pricipitate survived the whole roman concept of ruling.. Even if it meant a monarch with more og less tyrannical power.. Even that Augustus was smart enough to not say he was the monarch straight out, it was a monarchy, with augusts and his relatives as the head, in everything than the world...

I do not hope the same is happened in US, that you in the end are ending in the same thing as The Roman Empire.. A monarchy without the name on it... And I would REALLY fear a monarchy with the Bush family name on it... I would be straight out horrible...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. You are speaking to an American who lives in relative poverty,
Though I won't get into that, I just want to point out that it does exist in America. So this lowly and concerned American citizen sees America both being duped and being stupid. You cannot fairly lump all of us Americans together as a mass of single-minded, unconcerned and inactive people living off of the fat of the world. This breadbasket to which you refer does not heap food upon all of our tables. We do not all sit in gluttony here as we watch the rest of the world starve.

This simple person (myself) has protested in the streets, written editors of news organizations, written and called his Congress many times, signed countless petitions, voted for a congress that promised to end this war and then didn't do as they promised, supported a candidate who spoke of real change that was treated as a non-entity by the corporate-owned media (Edwards).

Just because the elite and greedy war-profiteers have set up camp in the richest nation on earth (from where else would they build an empire?) doesn't mean we simple Americans all support their agenda, or that many of us do not struggle to change the program, unfortunately with little success.

I will join you in blaming ignorant and selfish "America", but the "America" that is most responsible is like a parasite that owns our government and controls by fear and media manipulation and other dastardly means.

The Bush administration is a monarchy of sorts, part of an oligarchy, and has been building its empire for generations. Just google "Prescott Bush" for example.

Peace
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. balantz
balantz

I am either rich or powerfully my self, so I guess we are in the same wagon there:eyes: And I know about poor people in US.. It is not good when a country let millions of their own people live in relative poor condition, and then claim to be the best country in the world. And I don't believe every single one american are single minded, unconcerned and inactive people who just live by others. I believe for the most american are honest, hardworking people who really want the best for them self, and for their families and then maybe for the rest of the country...

I know that even in US many american starve, that is a thing I am very confused over. The last hundred year or so, the US have been the western worlds bread basked with food enough to everyone.. And they can not, or are not willing to feed their own people?:. That is bad if you ask me. I know america can feed them self, plus feed many country all over the world. Include my little country who have to import the most of the food we eat... And many tonnes are coming from United States of America too..

I believe you to be a brave soul, when you have doing what you have been doing. Not everyone would do what you have been doing. Not everyone would dear to stand up to the power, and tell their leaders that this is dead wrong...

I believe mr Edwards to be a man who would do the unthinkable.. WOrking to turn the table and doing something to do the right thing.. But he was ignored by the media, and then he was out.. Very sad because I really believe he may have had a sconce to do the right thing if elected president..

US are one of the biggest, and in many prospect to the richest country in the world. But it looks like US are using their wealth to waste it.. And it is sad because US have a lot of thing to give to the rest, if they wanted to do it.. I for one have always admired US, and the population, because their willingness to to the Right thing in the end.. But this time around I am not that sure, your government, would do the right thing.. I fear that US are on a self-destructive road with no exit in the near future.. And I fear that THIS government of your, would do the unthinkable, using the nuclear bomb to bomb another country... Then I really would be shocked by my neck... I really fear that this administration are capable of using the nuclear bomb, just to do the most extremists thing they wanted to do all the time...

I know little about the Bush family, and their road to more and more power.. It is not a good thing.. But if enough american get out of their sofa, and out of their TV schedule, then they "maybe" just maybe can beat off this regime, and stop the Bush family to do everything they wanted to do... It is enough with 2 president Bush I guess... And the last one, was a catastrophe for US and for the world..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. We are on the same team Diclotican.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. And it may take more than just America to end this oligarchy and save the world
from the tyranny of this corporate oligarchy.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. balantz
balantz

I totally agree;). But I fear it would be after a catastrophe of sorts before it could be possible.. And I fear it would be a catastrophe who would cost a lot of people their life....

But we can do our part every day, every week, every month, every year.. Even if it means we have to do some thing that would cost little more than go to Wal Mart and that sorts of things.. If enough people stop shopping at Wal Mart alone, it would cost the owners a lot...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English, not my native language
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. great mini rant within a rant, Diclotican
and your English is really getting better. Yeah, it is embarrassing what our country has become. I hope that we can repair our image within the world with the next election.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. blondie58
blondie58

What mini rant?.. Hm, please enlightening me there;)

Yes, My English is getting better;) But I am not that good as many other, and I am afraid my writing lack much of what you would call "the english" tutch then...

Yes your country have a lot of hard work when the next administration are into office.. And I really hope you can repair what is wrong in US today.. I really miss the old US. A country you could TRUST as a friend, and as a allied... Today I don't know if US are a friend, or a allied anymore... But hopefully US, and Europe can rebuild, and fix what is wrong, and even try out to build new better friendship when it come to it... We need US, and US need us.. Together we can make the world a much better place to be.. If we want it then..


Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. By the way, I don't disagree with you.
It is all the responsibility of us Americans. But my frustration at being able to actually change our governmnet (disillusioned Edwards supporter here) leads me to think that these poor, starving people in these jails in Iraq and elsewhere will not get help from our government any time soon, and many more (how much over a million is it now?) will die before we get the war-mongers out of power. I don't see this war ending with either Clinton or Obama. I think I would be happy to see these unforunate fellow humans recieve help from anywhere possible.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #35
38.  balantz
balantz

I agree, this poor souls have been dragged into something that they don't wanted, or needed to be dragged into.. But in the end, this IS an US adventure going pretty sour.. And in the end, it would be the american who would need to do the right thing, helping the iraqi to rebuild what is destroyed.. The rest of the world should not be pushed to take up the bill for what US are doing today... And then when US are going to "adventure" some where else, they can just say "well europe would take up the bill anyway, if we do the right, then we get the credit. If we do not do the right thing and screw it up, even then Europe would take the blame and the bill, and we get credit for what someone else are doing.. The american armed forces have ALWAYS been clever to go to war, and win it. But after the war... Then the real work are coming, and there the armed forces, and the rest of US lack some to be honest... The whole Marshall plan looks more and more like an one night stand when it come to what USA have been doing lately...

I fear that either Clinton or Obama would have the courage to stop the war, and just take the soldiers, and all the equipment home. I would be a very, very courages president, to say to the US, even the right wingers, that this war was wrong, and that american military presidency in Iraq is bad and must end... It must be a very courageous president, to stand before the whole world, and say I am sorry for what the last Administration treated you all as.. And I would go the whole mile with our enemies just to get a deal where everyone can get along...

And I fear that this President are nowhere near the Presidential election either now or in the searable future too... I don't know much about Mr Obama to judge him.. And I am not sure where Ms Clinton really stand when it come to Iraq... Or to judge the woman either... Even that I miss, really miss the 8 year with Mr Clinton, even that he may not be that good a president as we think.. But he was better than this *************** man who are in charge today...

But, when the day is up, this IS an US responsibility,not the rest of the world. And I am afraid that this time around, after all the mischiefs this administration have been doing to the credibility of US. Must either go the road to say sorry. Or we have to wait to se what the next president would do..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. As a nation we have hit our lowest point..
since the enslavement of Africans and the genocide of our native peoples.
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MsLeopard Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Completely Agree
It will take decades to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world, if we ever can.... Impeachment might be a small step forward in that direction, but we have no Dems to make it happen.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. One more war crime!
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. How does this shit get stopped NOW....
not in Nov, not next year, FUCKING NOW!!!! Pulling out the military doesnt fix this shit. Putting a new working government in place doesnt help this shit. Marshall Plan?? Surely SOMEONE knows how to fix this fucking shit NOW!!!!! Why is this allowed to go on one more day?????:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Cant WE who allowed this to happen do SOMETHING to stop this maddness NOW?
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. You know the answer
IMPEACHMENT

Until that happens, we are all party to these atrocities.
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. k and r...
- saving to repost elsewhere...

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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
What do you think we would find in Afghanistan?
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kicked
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
We need to keep digging up and publicizing these egregious violations of human rights.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
Disgusting.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. Oh well, overcrowding and horrible conditions,
looks like we did bring 'freedom' - American style. And for what reason, a country we never needed to invade and a nation of people we are killing off by the numbers.

http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=150109&zoneid=35
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
31. K&R
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. These prison conditions exist in half the countries in the world
Either the commanders on the ground are ignoring the pleas for help from the prison guards, or they are trying to cover up how terrible things are to make it appear like they have the adequate skills to handle the situation. My guess is the later, based on increased pressure for iraqis to "stand up" in a country thats still being destroyed every day
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
33. Scott Horton on the "TF-134 Approach." Really the "right thing"??
On his Harper's Blog Wednesday:
Judges at CCCI told me that they were dependent upon the favor and approval of U.S. Forces, and particularly of TF-134 and its commander. In fact, judges who incur the disfavor of the Americans are very quickly reassigned out of the CCCI, a move which some view as the equivalent of a death sentence.

Similarly, judges at CCCI are dependent upon the U.S. Forces for their security, and are often given housing in the Green Zone.

I have also spoken with a number of figures in the Iraqi Government who complain about the functioning of the CCCI, the unseemliness of U.S. military dominance of the court, and the refusal of U.S. forces to account for persons held in “security detention.”

Seems to be more concerned with CYA than CFP ("caring for the prisoners") -- up to and including a "death sentence" for those who might whistleblow.

And aside from racking up another barrel full of war crimes -- in the name of the American People -- its existence is simply a mechanism by which to perpetrate a fraud on the US Supreme Court. Thus, avoiding all the US laws against this stuff.

Remember, it's always far worse than you even imagine.

Including the DC Dems complicity with it all by their failure to impeach.

---
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