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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:35 PM
Original message
Doing a paper on why illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay in this country, need help
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 12:43 PM by hnmnf
What reasons do you guys think would be the best for me to argue, realizing that there are quite a few.

EDIT: Let me rephrase, why should the ynot be deported and be put on a pathway to citizenship?
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lisa58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. you can't break up families (IMO)
some family members are citizens, some are not.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. You don't have to.
"Anchor babies" can be granted U.S. citizenship and the parents can be deported. I'd assume that most would choose to take their baby with them. At any time, however, that child could return to the States as a legal U.S. citizen.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's a thread I've saved for 3 years on immigration because
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because
lazy assed christian conservatives won't get their hands dirty in the produce fields but they'll bitch moan and bellyache when there's no lettuce or tomatoes to make salads.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. 1) To provide cheap labor for big business
and drive down wages to the point that citizens who used to work in the affected industries can no longer afford to do so.

2) To provide a permanent, stinging "in your FACE, SUCKA!" to all those who immigrated legally.

3) To steal citizens' identities for the purpose of stealing citizens' jobs.

Need more?

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. 2) Union Busting! nt
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. No disrespect and I don't want a fight, but....
If we allow those that are here illegally to remain (and we probably should find a way to do that) how do we stop the flow of more coming? What does this say to the immigrants that are attempting to gain legal citizenship in the US? How can our economy continue to take in more illegals?

And there are a host of other issues that need to be addressed with respect to illegals...
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. you have to work to erase the nationalism in the readers head
then you can focus on the fact that we are all humans

speak historically about migration and how we are ALL here because of those before us

focus on the similarities between the reader and the immigrant and you should be persuasive
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ORDagnabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. they'll be upstanding law abiding citizens..wait thats not right...illegal aliens right?
they broke the law to get and stay here so thats out the window. :)


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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. It makes labor cheap.
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 12:42 PM by lumberjack_jeff
Labor prices are the primary reason which government has looked the other way for 20 years. Everything else is a rationalization.

OT: Where did you get your .sig image and what meaning does it have for you?
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Since this country was founded by illegal immigrants,
maybe we shouldn't break with tradition.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Family. A lot of them have kids born here.
You would have to separate the family. I don't know what the alternatives to relocation would be if any. But I would think this is a big issue within returning illegal immigrants.

And there is a research section on DU.

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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Not a valid issue...see post #7
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The issue is valid. It's the alternatives to separating famlies I said I didn't know about.
And you gave that alternative with "anchor babies". But it's still an issue. The same thing when an illegal immigrant commits a crime that demands deportation while they have kids.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. The impossibly large expense of finding and transporting them would be a good start.
Because if you presume there are 12,000,000 of them the cab fare to send them home starts to get real big real fast. Then there is the initial cost of finding them, the first third will march into the police stations on their own, the second third will come in but it will cost you, the next 20% will fight you, and the last 3% will do serious damage before you take them. So add that in. Then you will also have to consider the cost of building a 50 foot tall wall to keep them from returing, and then the cost of the crops that rot in the fields because they aren't here to pick them.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Try this... Pros and Cons
Should America Maintain/Increase the Level of Legal Immigration?

In a Nutshell: Yes ------------ No

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/immigration.htm
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dont forget, this goes into effect tomorrow
Immigration Fines Going Up

PASCO, Wash.- Fines for businesses who knowingly employ illegal immigrants are going way up.

The federal government is proposing raising the fines by 25%, but immigration lawyer Tom Roach talked with today says in 25 years of practicing immigration law here, he's never seen a client fined.

Only once has he even had a client audited.

Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff made the announcement Friday.

-----

The current fines range from about $2,000 all the way up to $10,000.


http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=7924122&nav=menu484_2_9
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
16. My son's Applebee's was raided by INS yesterday afternoon. His kitchen staff went from 14 to 3. So,
there won't be any restaurants. Just kidding! But you will see a steep decline in the 'hospitality' industry.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. They should be allowed to stay because they are a threat to white people...
the original "Illegal Immigrants"
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Because they pay more in taxes than they cost
Because it's the humanitarian thing to do
Because the kids often have no language skills or familiarity with the "home country" and are americanized- deporting them would be inhumane
Because most of the people having this discussion are descended from illegal immigrants
Because a widescale apprehension and deportation scheme would make the drug war look cheap
Because our classist and racist immigration system made legal immigration impossible for many people
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WilmywoodNCparalegal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. wow... that's a loaded question with more gray than
just black or white. You can't possibly have an impassioned immigration discourse without getting one side or the other riled up. Unfortunately, it's not an 'either or' matter. For what is worth, I am an immigrant myself, although I did not choose to come to the U.S. My father worked for an Italian company and the company needed someone from headquarters at its U.S. subsidiary. It was supposed to be a short-term stay, but instead it turned out to be over 20 years (and counting).

Moreover, I have chosen immigration law as my career. I have been an immigration specialist and paralegal for a decently long time. While I have worked mostly in the arena of 'corporate' immigration (that is, for or on behalf of companies seeking lawful employment of foreign aliens who were either highly skilled, highly educated or extraordinary in their fields), I currently work in an area of North Carolina where our immigration clientele is made up exclusively of people who sneak across the border ('without inspection' in immigration lingo) and are seeking help to obtain work visas or any other type of legal resolution to their 'illegal' dilemma.

Unfortunately, current immigration laws are very strict in this regard; if you sneak across the border 'without inspection' there is very little that can be done, even if you are married to 1000 U.S. citizens or have 10000000 U.S. citizen children or pay all taxes on time, short of a life or death issue that may warrant a waiver of inadmissibility. There have been a couple of important amnesties - chiefly in 1986 and the brief and restricted 245(i) which ended in 2001 - but of course the law on the books has not changed with regards to EWI immigrants (that is, "entered without inspection" immigrants).

With respect to my clientele, another aggravating factor is that approximately 90% of them have one or two criminal issues in their backgrounds - DWI and domestic violence. Not all have both, but all of the 90% have the DWI. In certain cultures, drinking and driving are not considered a big deal and there's certainly a cultural component to the DWI issue, no doubt. But in the U.S., a DWI is a DWI and it counts. Even in case of an amnesty, a large majority of my clients (again, I can only speak with regards to them, not the entire EWI immigrant population) would probably not be eligible if more than 2 misdemeanors or 1 felony are present in their criminal records. The fact that these hard-working people may have children born in the U.S. or U.S. spouses or be the sole breadwinners does not preclude them from being considered deportable under the law. North Carolina law enforcement will check on immigration status to anyone caught for a DWI and taken to jail even for one day (they are required to do so for all felonies); if such a person is found to be in the country illegally, then an immigration hold with ICE is placed and the deportation game begins.

We get calls everyday from family members of those who are being held on immigration holds. Unlike any other defendant, immigration holds are not eligible for court-appointed (i.e., taxpayer subsidized) counsel and they have to retain their own counsel or appear pro se. The problem is that the nearest immigration court is in Atlanta and it costs quite a lot of money which many people do not have. Therefore, most risk being deported and then coming back again (still EWI, sneaking across the border), risking being caught and being barred permanently from ever seeking lawful status, regardless of amnesty or changes in the law.

I guess all of the above does not really answer your question, but it serves merely to illustrate the complexities of immigration. Now, since I am an immigrant myself (albeit a legal immigrant) and I work with legal immigrants from all parts of the world (including Latin America), I cannot help but weigh the demands of those who are here illegally versus the immigration laws currently on the books and the torturous path one must follow to obtain a legal visa or green card.

Obtaining a visa to work in the U.S. is a very daunting process, one which requires patience and money, in addition to the ability to meet the criteria. Immigration laws in the U.S. are restrictive - it is the stated aim of U.S. immigration law to attract and retain qualified individuals from all over the world, along with asylees, refugees and immediate relatives of U.S. citizens. Everyone else is on a lower priority for need. In simpler words, a pediatrician from Mexico is much more 'wanted' by the U.S. than a construction worker from Italy. In fact, such a construction worker would stand 0.0000005% chances of ever obtaining a U.S. visa for employment.

As a legal immigrant, it took me a long time to obtain lawful permanent residence in the U.S., after many years of holding a visa and paying incredibly high out-of-state tuition in college. Along with the time it has taken, I had to expend a lot of financial resources that I or my parents hardly had. If I could sneak across the border and not have to do all this work, filling out form after form replete with inane biographical information, getting the runaround every time I called INS (now USCIS) or paying ever-increasing filing fees, not to mention attorney fees, with the understanding that one day I could get my green card with an amnesty law or not risk deportation, I would have done it. But unfortunately, entering the U.S. without inspection is a civil violation of U.S. immigration law. It is as simple as that. I don't have to like it or agree with it - but it is the law of the land.

I am not enamored with the law; it is imperfect, at best. It does not address circumstances where the children of illegal immigrants are now ready to go to college and cannot, due to their parents' status. It does not address the circumstances where families may be torn apart by the deportation of a family member. It does not address the issue that employers are not penalized for knowingly employing illegal immigrants, even though the law says they should. But without law, there is anarchy; can you imagine if the U.S. had open borders? Likely, it would be a race to the bottom; let's see which workers can work the hardest, get paid the least and get as few benefits as possible. We all know, after all, that employers care about their bottom line and not about human capital.

Therefore, in good conscience, I cannot answer your question any more than I can answer the question if there are aliens out there. I cannot; there is no easy way out.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Then why the diatribe? He asked for reasons why they should stay
not why the shouldn't. You could have shortened you post with the stock answer, "legal immigrants have a hard time getting citizenship why should illegals get the same thing for nothing."
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. The city of Los Angeles would shut down and cease operating if
all undocumented workers were deported.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Ever seen the film: A Day without a Mexican?
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
24. It us not practical to deport them and break up families, especially if their children are citizens.
The work they do is needed, such has farm labor.
They pay into social security that benefits retired persons and they are not getting credit for it.
They are good at working together at things like organizing and when they unionize it helps all of the labor movement.
By the third generation, they speak english and are part of the middle class.
Their issues tend to be things that Democrats can support so Hispanic citizens tend for vote Democratic when these issues are supported by Dems.

If anglos and immigrants learned to cooperate instead of competing the could but the breaks on corporatism.

It's a moral thing to do.
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