In light of the father killing his family in Iowa (and since it is my

[Hardrada]

state, my heart is draped several times over in mourning) I wonder if this is a peculiarly white middle class crime. Does not the idea of someone regarding his family members as possessions to be destroyed in the case of failure something coming from a conservative mindset?

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. I would look deeper, there must have been some reason

He knew he's in trouble with a sick bastard who will go after his family if he can't pay him back, even if he is dead. That's what I suspect.

[Hardrada]

8. There may be something to that.

It is hard to tell at this point. I am sure there will be some thorough investigation since the father was from a prominent local family.

[Ellen Forradalom]

2. It happens way too often and is extremely disturbing

"Regarding his family members as possessions" is what patriarchy's all about.

[sharesunited]

3. No it's not political. It is self esteem.

A feeling of letting down your family. You would rather they be dead than know you had done something shameful and be forced to face that alongside you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. My dear Hardrada...

My deepest condolences...:hug:


I was horrified to hear this news...

Family members should never be seen as possessions...

:cry:

[Hardrada]

6. Thank you for your concern and empathy. We do not have

this sort of thing often in our state and that makes it all the more difficult to comprehend.
:-(

[abelenkpe]

5. I don't think so

I see reports like this all the time. Amd every one of them makes me want to sob. There was a recent story of the father in georgia who abducted his wife's kids and killed them and himself and there was a similar story about a family in maryland, where the father hung all the kids. Another where the father threw his four kids off a bridge. I see it more as a symptom of a society falling apart. Financial hardship, divorce and not being able to live up to the standards you were raised is causing so many tragic stories. It is always the most vulnerable that suffer the most, children, women, the elderly, those with disabilities. We need to form stronger community ties as times get rough. Don't blame it on conservatives. Lost desperate souls with control complexes maybe....but they can wear many labels. There needs to be more community outreach....the message needs to be made loud and clear:...your children will be cared for...please don't harm them.

[Hardrada]

11. It just struck me as an aspect of male domination hence

a more conservative philosophy or ideology. I think those more progressive are perhaps more aware of the available helpful social network. Yes,of course, I do agree on the aspect of more community outreach to troubled families.

[sandnsea]

7. I think it's two different motivations

Probably more, but two come most to mind. One is the classic abuser who will kill everybody before he let's them reject him, revenge, retaliation. The other are these strange failure oriented murder-suicides, thinking everything you've touched is ruined or something. Very weird, narcissistic.

[Hekate]

9. It's very complex -- not a "white" crime, but definitely patriarchal. Here in California...

...we've had more than one Asian immigrant family killed by the father. Also whites, also Latinos... It really seems to be no respector of ethnicity.

Sometimes the head of the family is abusive and lashes out as the wife is making moves to leave. Sometimes the husband/father is under such enormous cultural pressure to succeed in America that death is preferable to economic failure and ruin. Sometimes the husband/father is under such enormous internal pressure to succeed that he implodes when bankruptcy/foreclosure threatens. Sometimes he has a psychotic break.

There's never an excuse to kill your family, but there are different reasons. The only common thread seems to be that wife and children are seen not as individuals but as extensions of the male head of household, as possessions.

How very, very sad.

Hekate

[emilyg]

15. In Ga. we've had Hispanic males kill their families.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. There have been studies done about this phenomenon

And it does seem to point to a very traditional mentality. These are men who overestimate their own importance and believe that they alone are responsible for the wellbeing of their families. I definitely think that rigid gender dualities and unrealistic expectations upon men lend themselves to these horrific acts. It's telling that the "Media" situation, that of a woman killing herself and/or her children to get vengeance on a man, or out of a sense of "failing" as a wife or mother happens far less often than the incidents of men doing those things. Another problem is that men are conditioned to get their emotional needs met by their partners far more than women are. Women tend to develop social networks beyond that (assuming they are not in an abusive relationship where they've been isolated from support systems) so they are less likely to respond with destructive violence to being rejected by their partner. But that's my amatuer opinion. Take it with a grain of salt and YMMV, of course.

*On edit* Upon re-reading your post I discern that you have personally experienced a tragedy. I'm so sorry for whatever you've gone through and I hope that you are doing okay. Peace. :hug:

[Hardrada]

13. Thank you. Tolstoy said "Happy families are all alike." and uninteresting.

But those of us who have had some sorrow and loss probably constitute the majority
(and obviously have tales to tell). You are quite correct in noting that the MSM will concentrate on a story of a mother drowning her children. That is perhaps more because it is unusual than for any sexist reason. I'm okay. And peace be with you.

[TygrBright]

12. Holding you in the Light, Hardrada...

...and all the Iowans shocked and stunned by this tragedy so close to a home that has traditionally seen itself as a safe place, full of neighbors who care about families.

sadly,
Bright

[Hardrada]

14. Thanks. We do have a close and caring state in many ways.

I grew up in towns which never had a murder. I do appreciate your sympathy. We need this now.

[spoony]

16. You make an interesting point

I'd never thought of it like that before, but it does seem like the men say, "I failed and would be better off dead, and this is MY family so they're coming too."

[devilgrrl]

17. This is strange...

When I first heard about this awful incident, the first person who came to mind was John List, the guy who killed his family and disappeared for 20+ years until he was profiled on America's Most Wanted. Well, John List died this past Friday.

Did you also know that Mr. List was thought to be D.B. Cooper, whose parachute may have been found the past few days?



weird... :scared:

[Berry Cool]

18. I didn't know John List had died.

He was one of the rare cases in which a man killed his family (not only because he couldn't support them financially but because he was a religious tightass who was convinced his oldest daughter was developing interests that would result in her going to Hell when she died, and he had to kill her and the other kids before it was too late) and, instead of killing himself last, disappeared and started a new life. I am so glad he was caught and lived out his last years in captivity.