Pat Buchanan: Slavery Best Thing Ever to Happen to Blacks

[kpete]

Pat Buchanan: Slavery Best Thing Ever to Happen to Blacks
by D Wreck
Sat Mar 22, 2008 at 06:52:12 AM PDT

Barack Obama's speech this past week illuminated aspects of the racial divide in this country in a nuanced and respectful manner. This speech offered an opening for dialogue. Pat Buchanan has offered his response.

http://buchanan.org/blog/?p=969

America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

No people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.

Buchanan amazes with a tone deaf defense of white resentment by claiming slavery is the best thing that ever happened to black people in a posting on his website yesterday. Buchanan's contribution to this dialogue is as appalling as Obama's contribution is appealling.

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/22/83758/9895/1022/482071

[polichick]

1. Pat Buchanan is a national disgrace.

[roguevalley]

85. obviously he's never heard of Great Zimbabwe, the Zulus,

the Queen of Sheba and other places and people that are awesome. poor dipshit.

[Hamlette]

104. he is and we should insist he be taken off the air...be sure and write MSNBC n/t

[jgraz]

2. Wait... he wrote that YESTERDAY?

:wow:

When I first read it, I thought they were quoting some shit he wrote in the 60s. Holy shit, this guy is one racist fuck.

[eShirl]

13. yeah.. the 1860s. n/t

[marmar]

22. Herr Buchanan makes no secret of his racial sensitivities....

... What's that book "Death of the West" all about? A total racial paranoia screed about the "browning" of the world.

[Hugabear]

25. Someone else made this exact same claim not too long ago

I forget who it was, but someone else has claimed that slavery was the best thing to ever happen to African Americans.



I can't help but wonder how much better Africa would have been able to advance if it hadn't been for European and American involvement.

[rurallib]

54. First heard that as a kid in the '50s

I remember some republican county official in Washington state said something very similar to a reporter around two years ago. It got big play all over the country.
One of the first times I heard it and I realized what it meant was @ 1968 (I think it was) when a young Lew Alcindor refused to try out for the Olympic team. And as you can imagine that was one of the nicer things that was said.

[Aristus]

62. Lew Alcindor? What ever happened to him?

I heard he changed his name or something...

[rurallib]

108. Used that name on purpose

I was @15 or 16 and the 'boys' at the bar my old man hung out were really letting loose with the invective. Mr. Alcindor (or Lewis as Coach Wooden always refers to him as) changed his name to Kareem Abdul Jabbar. As his success grew, white America caught amnesia.

[unapatriciated]

126. It looked the same because he has been saying it for years

A few of our favorite Pat Buchanan quotes:

"The War Between the States was about independence, about self-determination, about the right of a people to break free of a government to which they could no longer give allegiance … How long is this endless groveling before every cry of ‘racism’ going to continue before the whole country collectively throws up?"—syndicated column, 7/28/93

"If we had to take a million immigrants in, say Zulus, next year, or Englishmen, and put them up in Virginia, what group would be easier to assimilate and would cause less problems for the people of Virginia?"—This Week With David Brinkley, 1/8/91

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."—Speech to the Christian Coalition, September 1993

"I don’t care about the circumstances of a child’s conception. You want to execute somebody in the case of rape, execute the rapist and let the unborn child live."—New York Times, 2/24/96

"Homosexuality is not a civil right. Its rise almost always is accompanied, as in the Weimar Republic, with a decay of society and a collapse of its basic cinder block, the family."—New Republic, 3/30/92

"Rail as they will about ‘discrimination,’ women are simply not endowed by nature with the same measures of single-minded ambition and the will to succeed in the fiercely competitive world of Western capitalism."—Syndicated column, 11/22/83

"The real liberators of American women were not the feminist noise-makers, they were the automobile, the supermarket, the shopping center, the dishwasher, the washer-dryer, the freezer."—Right from the Beginning, p. 149


"Keep an eye out for Buchanan ’08. He’s still a bundle of anger, outrage, aggression, intolerance, and he’s not done with America yet."

http://www.campusprogress.org/tools/282/

[Red Zelda]

Potato famine best thing that ever happened to the Irish

[WinkyDink]

Beat me to it! (And I'm half-Irish!)

[Hugabear]

15. And the Holocaust is the best thing that ever happened to the Jewish people

After all, they got their own nation out it, didn't they?

:sarcasm:

Sarcasm aside, though, I've actually heard that argument made!

[Vanje]

45. Guantanamo is the best thing ever for....

....whoever it is that we keep caged there.
Free tropical vacation!
Meals. Everyday!

[unapatriciated]

125. don't forget the free health care

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

86. Not to mention an Academy Award for Schindler's List

Lucky Bastards.

[peace frog]

43. Lest we forget: Manifest Destiny is the best thing

that ever happened to Native Americans.

[williesgirl]

3. He's a racist asshole. Why folks still pay him to speak is a mystery.

[Kierkegaard]

37. There's no mystery.

Media moguls know that viewers will sit through SCADS of paid advertising in anticipation of hearing the latest stupid remark to emerge from this loser's pie hole. Blood & controversy pays the bills...

[ananda]

4. Buchanan's America is not the America of many.

At least I hope not.

Ignorance and bigotry and racism still
astound me, but I guess I'm not surprised
at it.. except when it gets play like this.

Why isn't there an outcry and a firing of
Buchanan for such outrageously ignorant and
racist comments????

Hmmm?????????????????

[Quantess]

109. Good question.

Because he claims to be a man of God?

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

5. I certainly hope people remember this shit when they say...

...a few weeks later "I hate to agree with Buchanan on anything, but he made sense last night on 'Blovating Political Pundits of the Week'"

He's a racist maggot, and if he told me the sky was blue and it was sunny out, I'd bring my umbrella when I left my apartment.

Everything he says that makes a single iota of sense is said from his bigoted mindset. Never forget that.

[spanone]

6. racists in america are ok if they're teevee pundits

[Hugabear]

7. Silly Negros, not knowing that their slavemasters were only trying to help them

:sarcasm:

Seriously, WTF?

That is such an insulting argument that it doesn't even really merit dissecting and rebuttal.

[panader0]

8. That's outrageous! He's got to go.

[mediaman007]

9. Let me guess that a majority of those funds beneficiaries were White...

What Buchanan is really saying: "Blacks are lucky that we let them have a sample of the pie."

[malaise]

10. Those comments are disgusting

The good news is that if Obama is the candidate, Pat will be dead of a heart attack before year end.

[babylonsister]

11. Please, people, write to MSNBC and complain about this racist asshole.

If enough of us do it, maybe they'll put him out to pasture. :grr:

[polichick]

26. I'm doing it - both Buchanan and Joe Scarborough have to go!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

29. Sent as well... E-mail below

[e-mail]

The following was spoken by Pat Buchanan yesterday: "America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

No people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream."

This is loathsome commentary. That you allow this racist, GOP, talking point a forum to express this diatribe is unconscionable. I will no longer tune in to MSNBC to catch myself up on the news. I suggest your producers and programming directors get their act together. Consumers will no longer tolerate such behavior.

With abject disgust,

[babylonsister]

31. Thank you, and thanks for the e-mail address! nt

[FloridaJudy]

105. Wow. A double-header.

Not just racism, but religious bigotry as well. I've let MSNBC know just what I think of this. Thanks for the address.

Come on people: we got Imus fired for displaying gross racial insensitivity. Let's send this jerk a pink slip as well.

[my2sense]

132. Thanks

I just sent mine off.

[knixphan]

146. thanks for the address!

[Blue_Roses]

46. yes, I agree

and I will be writing mine shortly. I was thinking the same thing. With such racist views, he doesn't need any more air time.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Ist die Wahrheit!

[Bensthename]

33. Just did.. thanks

[Swamp Rat]

76. Gern geschehen

[HCE SuiGeneris]

14. I switch the channel every time he comes on MSNBC. I loathe that cretin.

[sunnystarr]

44. I emailed MSNBC last week to let them know

that the minute they put him on I switch to CNN.

[Bandit]

16. The truly sad part is so damn many white people believe this completely.

Without White people giving Black people hand outs they would have nothing..This is the true definition of racisim...Pat Buchanan is the epitomy of a racist..

[sellitman]

20. The people you speak of have a name besides being Racists.

The are known to many as " Republicans"

[JimiJonga]

52. The 'Irish" did benefit from the potato famine

The Irish went from 1.5 million to about 60 million ancestros in America today,or more.There are approximately 4 million ethnic Irish in Ireland today. 4 million/60 million+.We have ancestors who have counties named after them.

Obviously if the tragedy of the potato famine was 'good for the Irish', slavery was 'good' for Africans, population wise. What exactly is the argument against this? I see none, just moral hyperbol.

Most of the slaves from the 3 main slave ports in Africa were from defeated local wars. They used to kill them, but the Portugese, then the English popped up and took the doomed Africans and found a 'use' for them ala slavery. This is during a time of white indentured servitude, and NO MIDDLE CLASS, and badly run orphanages in England (Oliver the movie is very very sugar coated). The greatest slave trader family was from Columbia, and was black also.

8 and 9 year old Irish were used in the coal mines even up to the 20's or beyond.

There are many books on slavery out there and they are a great read. Alex Haleys book 'roots' is not historically accurate.
Pat Buchanan was a writer for Nixon, and many Nixon staff are employed the major broadcasting agencies, thats why hes on TV, hes got major connections. He is a paleo-con, not a neo-con. Both are bad.

America was a very beneficial saftey valve for alot of people. Funny, Obama is not from local African American family, his dad was from Kenya, which is having a WAR right now over the last election.


Without slavery there would only be about 1 million or so Africans in America given current population statistics, as most Americans were of European origin up to the mid 1960's.


Are there any actual arguments about this? From an anthropological, and now social point of view, slavery was beneficial to Africans. Africans were not allowed to immigrate in great numbers at the time, nor were most non-white peoples.

Instead of calling for Buchanans dismissal, you should rally for equal time for someone to argue his point of view, and shoot him down.

"I do not believe in what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Buchanan is the ultimate test of this belief in free speech. So sad to see all the 'bookburners' out this morning.

:hurts:

[Hugabear]

58. Nobody's denying him his free speech - but you have to be willing to pay the consequences

People have lost their jobs for saying far less than this.

Nobody's advocating that Buchanan be arrested for what he said. But what he said was highly offensive, and in a free market like ours, you have to deal with the consequences of what you say and do. If you offend enough people, then it's reasonable to assume that your job could be at stake.

[Bjorn Against]

69. Are you serious?

You say "From an anthropological, and now social point of view, slavery was beneficial to Africans." And then claim there are no arguments against this. You are wrong. Just because there may be more blacks in America than there would be if there was no slave trade does not mean that blacks benefited from slavery. There is no benefit in being crammed onto slave ships and having your history erased. There is no benefit in being whipped and beaten if your slave owner does not like the way you work. There is no benefit in a system that created a society in which people viewed blacks as inferior.

Just because there are more blacks in the US now does not mean life is better for blacks because of slavery, and to say so is absolutely ridiculous and ethnocentric.

And no one is calling for an end to Buchanans right to free speech, but we have free speech too and we are not going to be silent when people like him and you say this kind of crap.

[HughBeaumont]

92. Maybe we should ask this guy if slavery benefitted him.

Pat Buchanan does one thing correctly. Every time he speaks, it sure pushes all of the bigots out of the cracks.

[JimiJonga]

106. ITs not equal time on TV of course

To balance Pat out, we should have Ralph Nader or Noam Chompsky on, but I will say that we get Amy Goodman, democrat underground, and she gets on the good topics, although she is not on the major networks. There has never been balance in the media.

Pat Buchanan is about 25% liberal, that is, he is against NAFTA and always was. He stands for the poor American people. He stands against endless illeal immigration,and duh, overpopulation of America on that note. Will he stand up for unions and the middle class, probably not.

About 30% of liberals tend to support (endless?) illegal immigration, and in so doing support BushCo and the corporate right wing who want cheap slave labor paid for by American tax dollars. And who pays for the consequences in poor education, white flight over crowding, ER closures? Mexican labor is NOT cheap, and things made in China are NOT CHEAP. They have lead, and Chinas economy has doubled or more gas prices. If you amnesty them, you are increasing the cost of food stamps, schools, property taxes, and guess what? There is no way out exept further economic collaps which has started already. Real 'Liberal' of ya!

Slavery still exists, not to mention white slavery, sex slaves, that exist in this country. I dont know of any African American groups that are fighting slavery as it exists right now in Africa. So cry me a river. 1/4 of all lynchings were whites, and it was like 5000 people total. 3500 blacks were lynched, mainly for real crimes. It was frontier justice. Was there abuse? Oh yes, just as the death penalty today is 10-20% wrong. Im just saying that to put the numbers in perspective. No one told me 1200 whites were lynched for crimes or supposed crimes during the same timeperied. THAT pisses me off!

Black America still has probelms that Clinton had a commission on racism to address, what were the findings? Obama says blacks need to get off the couch and read books to get ahead.

Charlie Rose has had ENDLESS pro-Globalists on telling American democrats who will listen that we are going to be competing with the third world, and we better start to like it.

We are on a fast pace toward a global facist dictatorship. Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader, Ron Paul understand these issues. Everyone else is for them.

I do not deny the injustices of slavery, but it is in the western liberal world where it was put to an end. Who is going to come to our rescue when the shit hits the fan?? Not Africa, not Mexico.

As voting for Hillary and not Obama makes you a biggot on this message board (lol), (as does being Geraldine Ferraro) I think rightly so, that term has no meaning any more. Is Obama a biggot for telling blacks to stop eating cookies and get off the couch>?

Being a realist will make you sick. Its an ugly ugly ugly world.
:puke:

[Quantess]

113. I think that was his final post

as he has now been tombstoned.

[NoGOPZone]

134. There's something you don't see on DU every day

a post in praise of Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader AND Ron Paul.

[Number23]

118. It Gets Better

Not only that, but some of these same people believe that when blacks support each other, whip each other's assess to go to school, get good jobs and take care of their families and their communities, that they are "black separatists," "white haters," and my personal favorite, "reverse discriminators." Has there been a stupider term in all of English history than Reverse Discrimination? Isn't reverse discrimination in fact, FAVORITISM?

Sometimes I truly feel that in the larger scheme of things, black people are damned if we do and damned if we don't....

[Frustratedlady]

17. Buchanan trying to outdo Wright in shock rhetoric?

Someone needs to put him out to pasture. The old bull is gettin' old, in more ways than one.

[madokie]

18. and why is this sombitch on our teevees

hell I seen an article by his assed'nness in our paper the other day.

[sellitman]

21. He isnt on my TV

I have boycotted his employers since they saw fit to not invite John Edwards to their pissant debate.

Screw GE!

[LaurenG]

19. What a sick sick, spirit lives inside of him

and what an agonizing karmic responsibility he has loaded onto himself.

[edhopper]

23. Here's why it is truly racist.

The majority of money in all those programs went to white people. But Buchanan implicitly says that these programs were set up by whites to help blacks. They were in fact set up by our country at a time when the wealthier helping out the less well off was seen as a positive.
Now lets all watch him treated with respect and called an analyst on MNBC.

[treestar]

103. Exactly. This is right wing crap that they spew all the time

As if white people are never poor and never benefit from any of these programs.

[Rosemary2205]

131. Unfortunately

the poor are disporportionately brown, not white. Yes more than 50% of the poor are white but the percentage of poor minorities is much greater than their percentage of the population as a whole -- primarily as a result of ingrained racism and prejudice.

[Karenina]

24. Oh, the IRONY!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ConcernedCanuk]

27. Black people fought like hell to be treated fairly, the White Man GAVE nothing.

.
.
.

That's how I see it.

[Blue_Roses]

49. that's the truth...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

28. Letter To MSNBC

[e-mail]

The following was spoken by Pat Buchanan yesterday: "America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

"No people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream."

This is loathsome commentary. That you allow this racist, GOP, talking point a forum to express this diatribe is unconscionable. I will no longer tune in to MSNBC to catch myself up on the news. I suggest your producers and programming directors get their act together. Consumers will no longer tolerate such behavior.

With abject disgust,

[frazzled]

30. Pat Buchanan has been making virulent racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, and anti-femisist...

statements for years. Yet he is treated as a wise elder and on nearly every television program (they've cleaned him up a bit, and he knows he can't spew bile and still collect his paycheck, but his history is long and uncontrovertible). I've never understood this. We seem to embrace our white bigots with respect and awe. No wonder black folk (and women and Jews) get mad sometimes.

[Zynx]

32. I love it when people here agree with him on outsourcing without realizing the

reason he opposes outsourcing is he hates it when non-whites get jobs.

[annabanana]

I thought that was aquote from the 50's!. . He JUST WROTE THAT?

dear god

[glowing]

34. I cannot wait for the day that everyone is a homogenized caramel

color.. It will be grand.

[kestrel91316]

48. Me, too. Everybody a lovely cafe au lait, and nobody caring a whit

about ethnicity........

[glowing]

55. It won't actually happen in my lifetime.. but it will eventually happen..

This is the other side of "globalization"... It creates pretty babies.

[Quantess]

122. But then the lines will be drawn between different shades of brown.

Call me a cynic.

[L. Coyote]

35. OKAY. Perhaps the Whites should try it too then! Or, at least one of them! LOL

[Taverner]

36. What? Is he TRYING to get Obama elected?

Thanks Pat! By contrasting what the "Republican" position is, the rest of America, which is nowhere as racist as you, will come to us with Open Arms.

[butterfly77]

94. What they seem to forget is that...

this country is not just blacks and whites...

[Taverner]

95. Pat is a lot like the "Mother" character from The Good Shepherd

IN a talk with Joe Pesci, he said "we (white people) have America. The rest of you are just living here"

[Hepburn]

38. Fucking unbelievable....

...I am so stunned at Buchanan's remarks, I simply do not know what to say. How in the hell could anyone see slavery as a good thing for any person, race, ethnic group, etc. This bullshit is just incomprehensible.

Color me shocked...and it takes a hell of a lot to shock me. I cannot believe anyone, even a Neanderthal like Pat, could even begin to think like this.

Wow...the other side is a scary, evil place! :scared:

[selador]

107. to clarify

he did not say SLAVERY was good for black people.

he said america HAS been.

those are not the same things.

no, i'm not defending him. i'm correcting the continuously repeated misstatement that he said SLAVERY was good for blacks. he didn't.

he said america has been.

[LeftishBrit]

120. You're right; he didn't say that slavery itself was good; BUT..

he implied that it was worth it, as it gave the descendants of the slaves a better life in America.

Anyway, he's a bastard.

[selador]

123. true dat

i don't disagree with that.

i just find it annoying that people keep misstating what he said. it's not like one needs to MISquote pat buchanan to find something to criticize :)

[unblock]

39. we're still waiting for thanks from the japanese for nuking them....

hey, the yen's worth more than a penny now!

[ConcernedCanuk]

63. Old saying - "it ain't over until it's over" I don't think alot of the Japanese forgive the USA

.
.
.

If one reads history, they will find that the USA saved the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima for "the bomb" to make an impact.

Talk about collateral damage.

I suspect that close to 100% of those slaughtered with the nukes were of no threat to the USA or anyone else.

I also suspect that part of the obsession with attacking Iraq was to test out the USA's War-Machines capability with it's targeting system.

If you read into this post correctly - Iraq was target practice IMO.

And the build up in the Gulf, the Mediterranean, Afghanistan, and Iraq are all aimed at Iran.

USA is one mean beast.

We noticed.

[Blue_Roses]

40. figures.

he is one stupid, bigot.

[kestrel91316]

41. Oh, dear. PLEASE tell me this is from The Onion.

He didn't really say that, did he?????

[HughBeaumont]

93. Sadly, tis not.

Grand Cyclops Finger-Lickin' has hit a new low.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. He's just jealous.

He wishes he was black, so he could get the benefit of welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing...




What an incredible asshole.

[sce56]

47. I remeber a trip I did to a factory in Iowa back in 95 for training. I stayed at the same hotel as

candidate Buchanan he forgot his keys! So Pat and his wife were stuck waiting for someone to rescue them since the desk clerk refused to give him a new door key with out ID he did not have his wallet on him. The clerk told me she knew who he was but was following company policy and she hated the Bigot anyway! And he was tired as hell you could see it in his eyes!

[sunnystarr]

50. Someone needs to make a video of his

racist hateful comments - string them together and it will be 100% more accurate than what they did to Wright.

[Blue_Roses]

51. fuck-you Pat! Yeah, slavery worked out so well...***warning--graphic pictures***

more...

www.withoutsanctuary.org

[Schema Thing]

53. beyone the pale

pardon the pun.

This man should be fired.

[Karenina]

60. He won't be.

Nor will Rush, Sean, Glenn, Michael, Billo or a host of other whackos who pollute your airwaves DAILY, 24/7.

[malaise]

56. Let's see if GEM$NBC removes him fro his 24/7

spin diet.

[LeftishBrit]

57. Buchanan is vile.

[Hugabear]

59. Let's not forget Babs Bush - Katrina refugees were "lucky"

Remember how she was saying that Katrina refugees in Houston were lucky, that they had it better than before the hurricane?

[tanyev]

64. "This is working very well for them"

Accompanying her husband, former President George
H.W.Bush, on a tour of hurricane relief centers in
Houston, Barbara Bush said today, referring to the
poor who had lost everything back home and evacuated, "This is working very well for them."

--snip--

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

[varelse]

61. Unfuckingbelievable

"White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to."

As if!
Newsflash, Pat, "White America" didn't elect you to be our spokesperson. You're confusing us with "Klan America".

:nuke:
:grr:

[Patsy Stone]

65. Shameful

and appalling.

[Virginia Dare]

147. Right-and the potato famine was the best thing to happen to the Irish..

otherwise they'd all still be living in mud huts and squalor, eh Patty?....:eyes:

What a FUCKWAD he is...:puke:

[Frustratedlady]

66. Done! I wrote, but they probably won't read it.

I swear, if there were a definite division where we could draw a line, there would be another Civil War going on. There is so much hate and venom being spewed, it is going to get dangerous before this election is over.

[Rex_Goodheart]

67. Yeah, well, I'm going to get blasted again as a "racist" but

for the most part I agree with Pat Buchanan on the issue. NOWHERE does Buchanan condone the actual slavery, itself. NOR DO I.

I recognize that MY COUNTRY was born because my ancestors were being persecuted in Europe, which means that I can recognize that favorable consequences can emerge from vile and nasty historical circumstances.

Who can seriously argue that continental Africans have things better than most African-Americans?

Does that mean present African Americans should be GRATEFUL their ancestors were abused? If Buchanan thinks so then I'd certainly disagree with that part of his message, but his observations about the CONSEQUENCES of evil history are certainly accurate.

[noiretextatique]

68. his argument and yours is bullshit

it is predicated on an unknown, i.e., what would have happened if slavery and imperialism and white supremacy had not existed. also, like south africa, america's racial caste system, aka, segregation, lasted a hundred or so years after slavery officially ended. pat buchannan is an ignorant racist of the kind that has always found a welcoming home in america. despite all the outrage here, there are plenty of people who agree with him, like yourself.

[Rex_Goodheart]

72. I agree with him to an extent, just as I said

That neither excuses slavery nor imperialism. Africans should have been left to their own devices and self-determination.

But to deny that African Americans now live better generally than continental Africans is the bullshit.

[Swamp Rat]

79. Logical fallacy: You are comparing apples to all fruits.

As you know, Africa is a continent with many nations, each of which have very different modes of living and living conditions.

[YankmeCrankme]

128. The real logical fallacy is assuming things would not have been better without slavery.

Imagine American black society would be like if there had never been slavery and the belief that blacks were inferior. How many would have immigrated naturally for the same reason European and Asians did...the opportunity of a better life? It's reasonable to think that they would have had better job opportunities, less discrimination in housing or work, equal education, etc. How would they have prospered? Would we have already had a black President 30, 50, 100 years ago? How many less blacks would be in prison? How many more black entrepreneurs would there exist? Lawyers? Doctors? Teachers?

That poster you responded to and Pat Buchanan are idiots.

[LaurenG]

71. Who can seriously argue that if slaves weren't a part of American history

if we had only valued human beings and believed that all men are created equal that the African continent wouldn't have thrived? If we hadn't interfered and used human beings as a commodity.

How dreadful that we still live in a world with people who can say such crap and spin it to make themselves feel better.

[Uncle Joe]

73. It's entirely possible Africa would be in much better shape today, had white imperialists

never conquered and enslaved them. I'm not saying the white race is unique in this human condition, people of all races have fought war, committed genocide, enslaved and raped their fellow human beings throughout human history, however I believe we ultimately fail ourselves when attempting to justify an evil by the ends justified the means argument.

I believe this is just Buchanan's attempt at salving his own subconscious feelings of guilt.

[Rex_Goodheart]

77. I don't know why Buchanan would feel guilty

As a white American, too, I certainly don't.

[Uncle Joe]

80. Subconsciously he's tied to his ancestor's behavior,

just as everyone else. Conflicting emotions of loyalty and resentment, feelings or emotion don't require logic.

I have no doubt Germans born after WW2 feel guilt because of Hitler, logically speaking, they had nothing to do with Hitler or the Holocaust. I believe this dynamic is what breeds neo-nazis or skin head groups in to perpetuating cycles of hate.

[tomg]

75. What Buchanan's argument in that one

point simply fails to take into account was the unbelievable legacy of colonialization. Generally, I think it can be argued that the average sub-Saharan African has it worse than the average African-American in terms of standard of living, life expectancy, access to medical care and a whole host of other issues. That fact that Europe spent the last couple of hundred years completely destroying the continent and its people, setting up totally insane "countries" that have no connection to any tribal realities, and then bailing out - except where it was economically expedient to stay connected - without any real transition is what he does not take into account. Oh, and a whole host of other things - but that is just for starters.

To an extent, Buchanan's logic is the same as those that descry the violence in Iraq and blame "The Iraqi people" for causing it. Well, blow the shit out of a country's basic infrastructure, dismantle its complete police and military, exacerbate religious and ethnic tensions, and then blame the people for it? It is sort of like amputating someone's legs and then wondering he/she doesn't pull h/self up by his/her own bootstraps.

The extent of Buchanan's nuttiness really hit me when I reads the whole thing.

[bicentennial_baby]

89. Actually, the colonization of America had very little to do with persecution

For the most part, we colonized America as an extension of Britain, b/c Britain was running out of natural resources and needed a larger import/export market. Very few of the settlers were here for religious reasons. Much like slavery, the colonization of the US was in large part purely economic.

[RedCappedBandit]

112. By that logic..

the holocaust was, in the end, a good thing, because now the Jewish people have Israel.
:think:

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

136. The thing is that Buchanan totally ignores slavery

although the subject is absolutely central to what he's saying. Buchanan in his blog is referring to Obama's suggestion that we need social programs for African Americans to try to remedy social ills and imbalances. Buchanan is calling this a "con job" in his blog and a "shakedown". He suggests that America owes nothing to black people. Instead, he's suggesting that they should be very thankful for being here. He's saying that there's a high crime rate and high incarceration rate in the black community solely because they can't take care of themselves, which is a deeply racist comment. He isn't even giving the slightest nod to slavery and its legacy and Jim Crow for the terrible conditions that some African Americans face. Jim Crow, where black people couldn't go to a motel, couldn't eat at a lunch counter, couldn't even send their children to a decent school happened within the lifetimes of hundreds of thousands of African Americans still alive today and continues to affect the black community. Buchanan isn't saying that black people are better off because of slavery. He isn't even mentioning slavery. Instead, he's saying America has nothing to answer for because black people are solely responsible for their own poverty and crime rate.

By completely avoiding the subject of slavery and its legacy as a continuing factor in the social progress of African Americans, to call those who want to see more social programs for black people as a "con job" and a "shakedown" is to dismiss slavery as an unimportant event. To me, by forgetting the environmental factors such as slavery that have deeply affected the African American community and by suggesting that they alone are responsible for their own lack of progress and to suggest that they alone are incapable of remedying this is an extremely racist point of view.

[JoePhilly]

70. Native Americans have it great too!!!!

Think of it ... without the white man, the American Indian would still be running around in a buffalo skin ... now they have casinos!!!!

[GoldieAZ49]

139. do you know the indians also had slaves?

each tribe took their slaves with them on the trail of tears.

also, African tribesmen were the ones that sold their fellow countrymen into slavery.

Brazil bought the most slaves of all countries.

There is enough blame or responsibility to go around. Whites, Browns and Blacks.


The whole topic is or should be irrelevant in this presidential election.

[AzDar]

74. Good. Gawd.

:puke:

And I'll JUST BET that MSNBC ignores this.....

[baby_mouse]

78. This is just ludicrous.

Unfortunately, it's perfectly reasonable to suppose that he actually believes this drivel.

It does leave us with the problem of what to do about people with brains so badly twisted...

[backscatter712]

81. That was really ... special.

Man, what a piece of work.

Fifteen years ago, I was telling people that Pat Buchanan's speeches were better in the original German.

His views have only gotten worse since then.

[yurbud]

82. most of those programs were designed to help poor people in general not just blacks

he's reinforcing a GOP myth that welfare equals blackfare.

[TwilightGardener]

83. What's strange is that MSNBC seems to coddle him as the "resident racist"--

as if he's just a harmless character, while he vows that Wright is to be "hung around Obama's neck like an albatross".

edit to add: he also promises that Wright will "ghettoize" Obama.

[opihimoimoi]

84. W Bush is the Best Thing that happened to America....he threw Integrity & Friends under the Bus

[Solly Mack]

87. Miracle of affliction

to borrow a phrase from Alice Walker

[JanMichael]

88. Typical comment of a white guy who barely made it through History class

What a jackass....but, this view is pretty common amongst the "C" and below students.

[grannylib]

90. Holy shit. Sad to say that nothing this slimebag says shocks me

anymore. What a pathetic gasbag.

[Ellen Forradalom]

91. What a nut.

Why is this guy not in a straightjacket?

[gollygee]

96. There is SO MUCH wrong with that

first of all, that laundry list of benefits isn't a list of things white people did for black people. Those were all done for poor people as a whole, regardless of color. Lots of white people receive those benefits.

Second, the fact that African Americans have overcome adversity is not a reason to thank the people who caused the adversity in the first place.

Stupid.

[David Zephyr]

97. Someone should strap Pat Buchanan's ass onto a slave boat and take him for that "ride".

What a fossil of stubborn hate this man is.

[LeftishBrit]

98. He reminds me of the words of the infamous 19th century British official Charles Trevelyan...

He was responsible for administering relief to Ireland at the time of the Famine, and his inaction and indifference led to the death of a million Irish, and the emigration of many more. He notoriously wrote that the Famine was a ‘mechanism for reducing surplus population’ and that ‘The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people’.

I daresay the refugees from the Famine included some of Buchanan's ancestors. I wonder if he'd agree with Trevelyan that it really wasn't such a bad thing?

Honestly you do normally have to go back to the 19th century to find such crass justification of unmitigated evil and injustice.

[TexanDem]

99. Demand he be fired! Write to MSNBC -- my letter...

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Dear MSNBC:
The following statement was issued in Pat Buchanan's blog yesterday: "America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

No people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream."

Pat Buchanan MUST GO IMMEDIATELY! For your network to continue to allow the voice of such a racist who spews that much hate and bigotry is inexcusable. You fired Imus for only making a distasteful joke when everybody knew Imus was not a racist. But Buchanan is NOT JOKING! How long do you think you would keep him around if he gloated that the Holocaust was a "good thing" for the Jews because without it they probably never would have built their own country -- or some such vile foolishness.

MSNBC is my preferred news source and I'm sure Buchanan does not speak for other reporters and correspondents and that this loathsome remark, hopefully, made them shutter as much as it will the world. But I promise you -- as soon as Buchanan appears on any show -- I will immediately change the station to CNN. Let Fox News have him! He will be right at home there!

As one who identifies more with the Progressives, I still kind of liked Buchanan and gave him credit for some things. I was disappointed that he was so strongly opposing Senator Obama, but just chalked it up to his "Conservative" nature to choose the more Conservative candidate, Hillary Clinton. But obviously it was much more sinister than that. The motivation for his venomous opposition toward Barack Obama is now quite clear. He is a 1st Class Racist Bigot!!
FIRE PAT BUCHANAN!!

And for the record, I am a senior white female who was born, raised, and will die in the south. I've seen the horrors of discrimination in my youth and still some of it continues today. That in itself has been bad enough. But there's no way for anyone with any facsimile of of heart to be able to fully comprehend what slavery must have been like! For Buchanan to tout that they should be grateful about it is far too far over the line!!! Do not allow your network to be associated with his poison!!
FIRE PAT BUCHANAN!!

[tomg]

100. Thank God for Buchanan

Without that lunatic making totally insane comments, we would all probably be over in GD: Primaries ripping each other and the Democratic party apart. He might even remind us how high the stakes really are.

edit: to add

[AngryOldDem]

101. One thing that this election cycle has pointed out:

Things really haven't progressed much past the Jim Crow era, as much as we all would like to think otherwise.

I'm sure many -- too many -- share Buchanan's opinion.

Do you think maybe NOW we can all have an honest, open discussion on the state of race relations in the U.S., now that we really cannot smooth over, or discount, or ignore the fact that society still pretty much holds the same attitudes that we thought we had put behind us decades ago?

These past few months have truly been disheartening to witness. That we are even having this conversation in 2008 is disgraceful.

[agincourt]

102. I think if Pat Buchanan,

Got a sack of potatoes shoved down his throat, that would be the best thing that ever happened to him.

[Charleszia]

110. Fox News and Obama

I can not determine how to start a new thread so I'm adding it here, sorry.
I have noticed over the past few months that Fox news uses some type of blurring lens which makes Obama and his audience blurry or grainy when Obama is at an event. When Richardson endorsed Obama, Fox showed the speech and it was almost too blurry to see anything. They even blurred out Obama's face with smudges! I have not heard anyone mention this, and I was wondering if anyone watches Fox, or are they just asleep and do not notice how Fox blurs Obama events.

How do I start a new thread, anyone!

Have a good one.
Charles the zia.

[Major Hogwash]

111. Pat Buchanan - tonight's worst person in the world!

I think I just plagerized Keith Olbermann. No wait, I said it first, therefore that means on Monday, when Keith says it, he'll be plagerizing me!!

Don't let Keith get away with it.

Make sure he quotes me - I deserve at least that much recognition!

LoL

[Johonny]

114. were introduced to Christian salvation

Because you know Christianity only reached Africa ~2000 years ago.

[donheld]

115. IMHO that's worse than what Don Imus did.

[knixphan]

144. MUCH WORSE than Imus

[OneBlueSky]

116. Buchanan is, was, and always has been a Nazi . . . n/t

.

[upi402]

117. More whites than blacks are on welfare Pat!

Though a higher percentage on welfare are black.
But there may be just a tad bit of bigotry behind that as well, PAT!

[SoCalDem]

119. Hey kids... let's put ole pat in leg irons & throw salad dressing at him

[Perry Logan]

121. Does that mean that slavery was the best thing whites ever did?

[galledgoblin]

124. *...picks jaw up off the floor*

robertson really has a gift for finding new depths to sink to
:wow: :puke:

[varkam]

127. I'm not normally one given to profanity...

but fuck you, Pat Buchanan. :hi:

[Lorien]

129. Good Lord. How vile and clueless

:puke:

[apocalypsehow]

130. Disgusting racist filth.

:thumbsdown:

[Blue_Tires]

133. wow...that's a meme risen up from the dead....

ironically, i've heard it from Europeans as well, i guess as justification for all the diamonds that have been mined

[aldo]

135. If MSNBC doesn't ban him,

we'll know why.

[Rex]

137. So what does Pat think about the native american?

Like I have to ask.

[Quantess]

141. They are lucky that we made their country all nice 'n civilized for them,

and that we blessed them with Christianity.

That's probably what he would say.

[Larkspur]

138. Thank you Pat for showing white America that racism still exists

Pat was just regurgitating what white plantation owners said in the 19th century.

[richard roe]

140. The Best thing to Happen to Christians?

LIONS!

[dysfunctional press]

142. fat rich white guys should be enslaved and put to work building up the african continent...

think how good a thing it would be for them to have a less sedentary lifestyle.

they'll thank us in the long run.

[coalition_unwilling]

143. Buchanan just shit all over the memory of some of my dead ancestors, some

of whom saved the day for the Union at Gettysburg in the Iron Brigade. Some of my ancestors died so that slaves could be freed.

[knixphan]

145. Buchanan just shit all over every rational person in the US

[Quantess]

148. Agreed.

And why is the media ignoring it?