A Rant: U CAN'T B BOTH CATHOLIC & PRO-CHOICE

[PeaceNikki]

Any time I see this bumper sticker or one of it's cousins I cringe. I think to myself "Wow, there goes an arrogant asswipe."

I GET that people have different views on abortion and on faith and on a woman's right to choose. What I don't get is where the fuck these people get off judging the faith of others. Not only judging, but pasting it on the bumper of their SUV's and minivans next to their "I have an honor roll student" bullshit.

I saw one of these again today and I couldn't help but wonder - what kind of a sanctimonious piece of shit would produce these? What kind of a judgemental self-righteous asshole would BUY it? Does the Catholic church sell these? Do they support the judgemental pricks who flaunt these stickers?

So I Googled a bit. I found a site that sold these along with a list. "57 things you can do to help the Pro-Life Cause". I choked back the vomit as I read through these. I was looking for the items that talked about supporting the parents, emotionally, financially, physically some way. I searched and searched for the bullet point that talked about improving social programs to allow better access to healthcare and child care and mental health. Nothing like that was listed. Nope. Instead it's BULLSHIT like: "Promote pro-life music", "Fly the flag at half-mast in respect for the babies killed by abortion", "Use pro-life greeting cards", "Add the words "born and pre-born" at the end of the Pledge of Allegiance".

:wtf: Really!?!? Really?

That's not "Pro-life". That's Pro-I'll continue to look down my nose at you, shun you, shame you, look down my nose at you with disdain. And, let's be honest, even them and their own have been faced with this horrible choice... and have gone against the very words they preach - because their abortion is the only moral one.

If their goal is to REDUCE the number of abortions, they need to focus on WHY the abortions are happening. Here's an example: Two-thirds of women who abort say they cannot afford a child. Not just "oh, I won't be able to go to Aspen twice a year" can't afford... but no medical insurance, working 80 hours a week at $7.00 an hour can't afford!

IF YOU GIVE A SHIT ABOUT CHILDREN AND HUMANITY AND PEOPLE, FOCUS ON THE THINGS THAT MATTER!! Fight for an administration who helps BUILD the economy! Fight for health coverage and child-care assistance and increases to the minimum wage so people can take COMFORT in bringing a child into this world, not become paralyzed with fear at the thought!!

So, every time I see one of these bumper stickers from now on, it's *MY* turn to judge. *YOU* are the asshole and the murderer. *YOU* are the one that doesn't get to the root of the problem and *YOU* are responsible. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. The problem is not THAT abortions are legal. The problem is WHY they are chosen as the best alternative in so many cases. Fix that and you'll save millions of the lives you claim to hold so dear.

</rant>

[antigop]

1. Agreed. but I like the bumper sticker..."You can't be Catholic and pro-war". n/t

[StClone]

33. I don't like war either but

The Catholics actually have a very deep philosophical stance backed by Papal documents to decide what is a "Just War."

[antigop]

38. Yes, they do. And the invasion of Iraq is not a "just war". n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I've often thought I'd like to place another sticker

under their windshield saying, "And how many kids have you adopted?"

[pingzing58]

6. Roman Catholic Authoritarianism vs. Changing American Mind Set using Love of Life and Each Other

moral and ethical arguments. Changing the law only creates more criminals. Chaning minds creates a society based on true freedom.

[niyad]

3. the catholic church is, these days, vehemently anti-choice.

want to have fun some time? point out to an anti-choice catholic who uses that religion as a reason for being anti-choice that the church was not so until the late 1800's--right about the time napoleon III accepted the doctrine of papal infallibility.

[PeaceNikki]

5. Meh. They're anti-choice until they are faced with the choice.

Or face utter embarassment that their little Sally got knocked-up junior year of high-school.

[immoderate]

28. This is common.

I am acquainted with a reproductive rights activist. Over the years he has helped many anti-choice activists obtain abortions for themselves or their relatives. They are always convinced that theirs is a "special case." And then they go right back and protest against anyone else's right to obtain an abortion.

--IMM

[PeaceNikki]

29. Here's a great article on the topic

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

<<snip>>
Many anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique -- not like those "other" women -- even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling (such women are generally turned away or referred to an outside counselor because counseling at clinics is mandatory). Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call "sluts" and "trash." Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for "convenience".

A few behave in a very hostile manner, such as calling clinic staff "murderers." Years ago, a clinic counselor in British Columbia told me that one of her patients went into the procedure room apparently fine with her decision to have an abortion. During the abortion, at a stage when it was too late to stop the procedure, the woman started screaming "You murderers!" and other invectives at everyone in the room.

[immoderate]

40. Thanks for the link. It was heartening to see this one...

Some anti-choice women who have abortions do make peace with their decision and even become pro-choice, or at least more forgiving of other women seeking abortions. A Louisiana patient who was anti-choice before her abortion, wrote a warm and grateful thank-you letter to the clinic, admitting that she had been a hypocrite:

"I never dreamed, in my wildest nightmares, that there would ever be a situation where I personally would choose such an act. Of course, we would each like to think that our reasons for a termination are the exception to the rule. But the bottom line is that you people spend your lives, reputations, careers and energy fighting for, maintaining, and providing an option that I needed, while I spent my energy lambasting you. Yet you still allowed me to make use of your services even though I had been one of your enemies. You treated us as kindly and warmly as you did all of your patients and never once pointed an 'I told you so' finger in our direction. I got the impression that you cared equally about each woman in the facility and what each woman was going through, regardless of her reasons for choosing the procedure. I have never met a group of purely non-judgmental people like yourselves."

--IMM

[PeaceNikki]

41. Yeah, that actually made me tear up a little.

Compassion is an amazing and powerful thing.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. It's a common argument made

by people who have no other argument. They want to define away your disagreement with them, rather than understand it.

Similarly, we see much the same here - "real liberals support Kucinich", or nonsense like that.

It allows people not to have to struggle with the possibility that well-intentioned people can disagree with them.

[PeaceNikki]

7. The thing about this "message" is it's SO arrogant.

"I am a better Catholic than you!" "You're not a REAL Catholic because you support a woman's right to choose!".

It's awful and nasty.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Of course it is.

Arrogance is a substitute for real debate, for many people.

[niyad]

16. trouble is, that THAT is exactly the church's stand--look at them saying

that pro-choice pols cannot receive communion.

and guess what? I got ex-communicated for exactly that--being pro-choice, and not adhering to the doctrine of papal infallibility.

[PeaceNikki]

17. REALLY!?!?!?

That's sad.

In any case, is it proper for that soccer mom in the Expedition to make that moral judgement of the woman in the Subaru next to her?

[fascisthunter]

21. Could Be a Blessing in Disguise

God does work in mysterious ways....

[niyad]

26. it wasn't sad-- it was funny, since I was on my way out the door anyway.

I had paused just long enough to have that last discussion with church fathers.

[Virginia Dare]

32. Guilt and shame is a favorite tactic for Catholic leaders..

to keep the flock in line and it has been for centuries. Most Catholics these days have gotten over it and just ignore it or have left the church altogether, at least the ones I know. There are still a few self-righteous hypocrites out there though, like those who don those bumper stickers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Abortion is the issue that finally drove my wife from Mother Church.

After 60 years of being a Catholic and going through the whole system.

I had written it off when I was about 12 as a bunch of nonsense.

[gollygee]

9. So these people must think Catholicism is a mind-controlling cult?

I know quite a few Catholics and they have a wide variety of views about political issues.

[PeaceNikki]

10. Well, there are clearly some who consider themselves better than others.

Fuck the whole "Judge not lest ye be judged" shit.

[vi5]

11. Do they advocate returning their money?

I know plenty of Catholics including my pro choice parents who write out nice sized checks each week to dump in the basket. I'd like to see the church try and survive without the dollars of their pro-choice congregents.

Of course that would involve people like my parents actually standing up for what they believe in on the issue and making their stand/stance known and advocating it as every bit the moral issue that the pro-lifers do, which I have accepted is not ever going to happen.

[fascisthunter]

12. You Can't Be Christian and Pro-War

this could be fun....

[Richardo]

13. I wonder how many "U Can't B Catholic if U use Birth Control" they sell

:shrug:

[PeaceNikki]

14. ok, I laughed audibly at the thought.

I am picturing a condom with a face in a circle with a cross through it.

:rofl:

[Justitia]

39. Zing! He shoots, he scores! -eom

[malaise]

18. The owner should have met my mother

:rofl:

[moc]

19. As a pro-choice Catholic, I salute you!

:patriot:

Righteous rant!

:patriot:

[grace0418]

20. That's always been my argument about the anti-choice folks. Most of them not only

rail against abortion, they also have a real big issue with sex education and contraception. And most of them, being Republicans, love to bitch about "welfare queens" looking for handouts.

So I often find myself asking "So you don't want kids to be educated about sex, you don't want them to have access to birth control, you don't want them to have abortions, and you don't want them asking for help when they have a child at 17 and can't afford to feed the baby?" Yeah, that's going to work out real well for everyone involved.

Idiots.

[PeaceNikki]

24. I am so sick of organized religion in general.

For reasons like this and so many more.

[grace0418]

34. Me too.

Here's another reason why:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7482627&mesg_id=7482627

[PeaceNikki]

36. Wow!

:hug:

[Anser]

22. Simple Solution

Quit being catholic.

[PeaceNikki]

25. Um. Who? Me?

I'm not.

But who are you and who the hell is this soccer mom in her Ford Expedition to tell anyone what is in their heart and between them and their god?

[Anser]

42. An extremeist of course

Who am I? I'm one of those terribly dangerous people who cherish rationality over superstition. You know the ones with a moral code independent of a centuries old book full of hate that's been poorly translated dozens of times.

I'm doing what that soccer mom (what a great insult btw, I just HATE mothers too, especially ones that care about their kids enough to take them to fun activities) may have to do if they start taking their imaginary friend too seriously.

But really, my point was that that bumper sticker can be taken two ways. If I had to guess, the way I implied isn't what the Ford Expedition driver (an isult I actually appove of) meant. The RIGHT thing is for women to have control over their own bodies. Dare I even say, it's the rational thing. Organized religion is based upon irrationality and blindly following authority (a.k.a Faith.)

Of course, what goes on in your head (the heart pumps blood) is totally up to you. It has nothing to do with catholoicism which is (or was created by) an organized religion which is indeed against a woman's right to choose. Believe what you want, but it would save "catholics" who believe in things the catholic church does not a lot of grief if they stopped trying to be in a club that doesn't want them. I think they could do better anyway.

[Beregond2]

23. A Rant...

I'm sure many Catholics cringe at the sight of this too. The arrogance of the Vatican with regard to doctrine is a constant thorn in the side of the American Catholic church.

I agree completely with all you say. Imagine if all the money and energy that is wasted by the "pro-life" forces were actually used to address the conditions that lead to abortion, all the good they could do.

I have a Catholic sister-in-law who is very anti-abortion. The question I ask her is: "What do you think would actually happen if abortions were made illegal again?" She has no answer of course. They don't think that far. So I tell her: "The poor would have their coat-hangers, and the rich their trips to Sweden." That horrifies her, and I think she is starting to think more deeply about the issue.

[PeaceNikki]

27. It saddens me for the reasons you said.

"Imagine if all the money and energy that is wasted by the "pro-life" forces were actually used to address the conditions that lead to abortion, all the good they could do"

:(

[Virginia Dare]

31. Every time I see them out there picketing in front of a local OB/GYN office..

I think, wow, why aren't these people down at the hospital holding crack babies? Why aren't they out mentoring and/or tutoring young disadvantaged kids. Maybe they do that, too, but if they don't, what a totally misguided way to live your life.

[BulletproofLandshark]

30. Here's a great counter to that argument

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/pro+life/-/pv_design_prod/p_storeid.26792233/pNo_26792233/id_8044965/opt_/pg_/c_/fpt_

[treestar]

35. Moran one issue voters in my family

They are voting for McNasty because he is against abortion.

They have no interest in the deaths of millions of Iraqis, already born, with people who will want revenge for their deaths.

Why do they get so attached to this issue? They are liberals otherwise. They are willing to overlook that all over their opposition to abortion, which the right wing can do nothing about anyway. Why do they get so obsessed with this one issue?

I really cannot understand it.

[NMMNG]

37. How many of those people are against the death penalty?

The Iraq war (or war in general)?


And how many of them support the social service programs that help care for the fetuses they scream about once those fetuses are outside the womb?