My Depression era parents raised two kids very well, incurred no debt and left us real money.

[Stinky The Clown]

And I bet their story is as unremarkable, ordinary, and commonplace as millions of others.

They married when my father returned from WWII. I was born right after that, my brother four years later.

Mom had a high school education, but only worked a very few years .... and then only part time (more on that later).

Dad had only two years of high school before a childhood disease had him infirmed for a year. He recovered fully, but decided to work rather than go back to school. He was drafted shortly after that.

They had to hunt hard for a house when they were married. The found a drafty, unheated, flat in a fourplex to rent. I was born there. They moved to another drafty flat just a block from my paternal grandparents. My brother was born there.

My Dad bought an adjacent lot from his father (it had been the family garden) and had a house built on it. They took out a 20 year mortgage for the princely sum of $4600. Dad was working a union job at the Singer Sewing machine company plant in town. Two strikes later (I learned to swear while walking those picket lines with my Dad) he moved to a new job at Sikorsky Aircraft, building helicopters.

We had three family cars in all my years growing up.

A 1940 Plymouth, bought used after the war, a 1956 Olds 88, and a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500. After my brother and I graduated college, they got a new Ford Grenada.

The only time my mother worked - and always only part time - was when they needed to build up the cash to buy the new cars outright.

They got their first credit card when my younger brother was in college.

Mom survived Dad by twelve years. She died four years ago. She left my brother and me a very handsome estate to split. I say handsome. To many people it would be walking around money. To us, it was remarkable. They were both children from large immigrant families. They inherited essentially nothing. What my brother and I inherited was the direct result of their life work and their frugality ....... and the opportunity for the middle class that was set up by the policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

A Democrat.

A Middle Class.

No crushing debt at the governmental or the personal level.

Growth.

Peace

Prosperity.

All now, like my parents, a cherished memory, but out of reach. Lost. Gone.

[NC_Nurse]

1. Sounds like my parents. He had a great pension plan,

medical insurance (which paid for a LOT of my brother's needs, he's autistic/MR), got a free physical every year.
He put in his 30 years, invested for retirement, put a trust together to take care of my brother. All that on a good
salary with a reputable company that has so far *fingers crossed* not backed out on his pension, etc.

My husband and I will never have that. We may have nothing to leave my 3 kids. :-(

[Stinky The Clown]

7. My Dad's "pension" came from the union ...... like $60 bux a month.

They depended on Social Security and some modest savings. It was enough for them when they were both alive. When Dad died, it got harder for my Mom. But she managed. That compact between the government at the people that was put in place by the Liberal, FDR, really DID mean something. It really DID help people. It really DID as it was intended to do ...... care for them in their old age.

Say it and say it loud and proud:

L I B E R A L

[DBoon]

10. Interesting how this social contract bred individual responsibility

Knowing you had stable employment at a reasonable wage helped people save for the long term.

There wasn't this speculative "get rich quick" mentality - "my house is worth a million dollars - why should I save"

There wasn't the desperation of knowing your job will likely vanish in the near future - "why bother saving, we won't have a job long enough to matter"

And having social programs meant people didn't go into debt for medical care or an education. The more you go into debt for ordinary necessities, the less that debt means to you.

You only take care of yourself when you know others are going to help you do so.

The individual will only act responsibly when the corporations and government holds up their part of the deal.

[blondeatlast]

14. So very true. To me, it's unthinkable to walk away from my mortgage, but we know

people who got a sub-prime ARM and are facing a decision--and seriously considering doing so. As they say--the banks have already written them off as a loss, why should they worry?

I remember when the bank was local and such a thing (for either the consumer or the banker) would have been unthinkable. THOSE are the ethics that concern me, not which adult is sleeping with which other adult.

[DBoon]

27. walking away from a mortgage is more thinkable

when your employer has absolutely no loyalty to you, and is proud of it.

A social contract cuts both ways.

After 25 years of treating workers as disposable pawns, should we be surprised when workers decide their debts are equaly disposable?

[FourScore]

2. This is important for everyone to read.

Thank you for sharing this, Husb2Sparkly.

Recommend.

[mediaman007]

3. Watch this, long but worth your time...

http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.asp?showID=12620

then comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2883506

[SoCalDem]

4. Here's why

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2883506&mesg_id=2883506

[raccoon]

5. And parenting was vastly different in those days. nt

[leftofthedial]

6. repukes have worked tirelessly ever since then

to destroy the American middle class

it wasn't until raygun got a big and bigoted chunk of that same middle class to join the repuke movement, that they succeeded.

the destruction has been escalating inexorably ever since.

those days are gone.

[peace13]

8. Hats off to your parents!

Thanks for posting this. Peace, Kim

[Warpy]

9. Your parents didn't work against you

Most of us who had WWII generation parents who had grown up during the Depression but like most kids, hadn't had the worst hardships register along with what had led up to it, had parents who spent their entire lives voting GOP to lower their taxes so the people on welfare would go out and get jobs blah blah blah. Having climbed the ladder of success that was extended by the New Deal, they pulled it up after them by voting in dreary Repug after dreary Repug, with only southern conservative Democrats to break it up now and then.

What our parents did after they'd come through Depression and WWII was amazing, but they had a lot of help, help they made sure we and everyone after us would never get. I tried to explain that part to my dad at some point during the Reagan years, but he was besotted with the man and his tax cuts. All political discussion ended then and there.

I'm glad to say the fever finally broke and his last vote was for Kerry, but it was too little and far too late. The damage had been done. The consequences might have been unintended, but they're all too real, and now half this country doesn't remember how much better for working people it used to be. They think they rich have always been rich and that the rest of us fight over the crumbs while we hope we don't get sick because we can't afford to get well and that's the way it's always been.

The Greatest Generation would have been far greater if they'd left the New Deal in place. Now all those battles will have to be fought from the ground up, from the right to unionize to the re establishment of a fair progressive tax system. I hope our children are up to the job.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. I can't agree with your statements. Individual tax rates were at least twice as high from 1945-1987

and included all income (up to 1971) as they are now. http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/federalindividualratehistory-20080107.pdf

There was a dramatic increase in the number of social 'welfare' programs in the 1960-1970's. You seem to blame an entire generation instead of Raygun, Bush I and Bush II and the entire GOP for their desire to destroy the New Deal.

Edited to add a better chart of tax rates.

Note: 1945 rate for Married filing jointly was a minimum of 23% ($0-2000) up to 94% on income of over $200,000. Compare to 2008.

[Warpy]

15. Add Ronnie's six hikes in FICA, please.

By the time he left, every cent of those FICA hikes were going into the general fund and Congress was using them to mask the disaster his income tax cuts, especially on the rich and corporate, had caused. Fully 50% of the FICA taxes collected from working people, a burden that fell most heavily on the poorest workers and small businesses, were used to defray the costs of government the rich were no longer footing.

The government now owes trillions of dollars to the Social Security system, money that everybody admits can never be collected. The rate of robbery has dropped to 40% and the crisis will come when the boomers retire and Congress will no longer be able to rob the system to cover the disaster their tax cuts have caused.

By the way, that 23% figure is bogus. I suggest you go to to the IRS.gov site and find out what it really was.

What killed the progressive tax was tying it to fixed dollar amounts. As runaway inflation took place in the 70s due to OPEC, a situation Nixon/Ford failed to deal with as the oil companies saw record profits from it, the middle class was being killed off by taxes that were meant only to fall upon the wealthy. The progressive tax can be done much more sensibly by tying it to the median wage.

In any case, looking only at income taxes and pretending they're the only tax burden we have is disingenuous, at best.

[sinkingfeeling]

19. And blaming an entire generation for what was done in the name of the Republican Party isn't

disingenuous? I'll stand by the the tax tables the link provided and if you'd like more proof that the middle class paid double the tax rates that exist today, I have 40 plus years of returns. In 1976, I was making about $35K a year and paid something like 45% in taxes.

I'm just asking that you stop blaming a generation for 'climbing up the ladder of success and then pulling it up after them'. I didn't ask Raygun for a tax cut and we did pay more then than now.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. In the first St Ronnie campaign .....

My Mom and Dad canceled each other's vote.

And then ..... PATCO. Dad was a through and through union guy.

No more votes for St. Ronnie.

I don't know of another Repubic vote ever cast by either of them.

[Warpy]

23. You're lucky

When Lamebawl had his short and ill received TV show, even my mother fell under the spell. It took me a couple of days of potty training to get them both to stop trying to repeat the indoctrination/rants at me. When the show got canceled, so did their fascination, especially my mother's. She reverted to despising "bloated plutocrats" and all things GOP. They continued to cancel each other out until she became so ill my dad did her voting for her.

Like I said, he woke up in 2004 and voted for Kerry. Politics had been a taboo subject for so long that I didn't grill him about why, too busy picking my lower jaw up off the floor. He did mention being disgusted by the Smear Boat campaign. He couldn't imagine doing anything like that to any fellow vet from WWII, no matter what a scum sucking bastard the guy had become.

I doubt the Greatest Generation had any idea of the unintended consequences that turning conservative would have on their children. I think they thought in terms of punishing other people's children for being raised permissively. They were joined by the yuppie cohort who came along in the late 70s to early 80s, kids too young to have remembered the 60s as being anything but what their parents warned them about and all too ready to settle for money rather than social and economic justice.

Sadly, the 60s alienated much of my own cohort to the point that they were poor voters who allowed much of it to happen. I only hope we join with the young now and vote as retirees have always voted, in greater and greater numbers.

[Psyop Samurai]

11. Big K&R! .nt

[Matariki]

12. My parent's house(s) cost the equivalent of ONE year of my Dad's salary

My house cost me the equivalent of about five years my salary. Makes it hard to save money.

[raccoon]

16. Houses are, on average, a hell of a lot bigger than they were a few decades ago. nt

[Matariki]

17. My first house and my parents first house are about the same size

But mine cost at least 30 times as much. And I sure as hell don't make 30 times what my dad did at the time.

[raccoon]

18. Maybe--but in general new houses are lots bigger than they were in the 60s and 70s. nt

[Matariki]

30. Yes. And NEW houses where I live cost two to three times what mine cost

My house was built in the late 50's and is under 1000 sf.

The point, in relation to the OP, is that the cost of living is a LOT higher than it was a generation ago. In fact it often takes TWO incomes to raise a family where it used to only take one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. That used to be the standard

The value of your house was a year's salary.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I have a similar story

My parents also grew up very poor during the depression, raised 4 kids on a lower middle class income (my dad was a teacher) and managed to have an estate worth a million dollars when they died.

Our generation won't be able to do that, regardless of how frugal we are.

[kitty1]

24. In my Father's generation, you didn't buy anything without the means

to pay for it. The only outstanding debts most people had were on their mortgages. Like a lot of people from that time, my parents lived in the same house for many years. About 40 years for my parents.
Like Husb2sparkly, my Father also worked at the same job for many years as well.
We all know that the cost of living has gone up, and people go through houses and cars multiple times in a lifetime. Things are different now.
There are now multiple credit cards you can have to pay for those many "things" we can't live without. If one is maxed, a person just moves on to the next one.
I think the Depression era mentality was so geared to saving every precious bit of money you could, because they knew what it was like to have nothing. Possessions were valued and used until they wore right out.
On the other hand there are now so many expensive marvelous high tech gadgets available that we as a society rely on, that were unheard of in our parent's day. Computers, blackberries; HD/Plasma TVs.; microwave ovens, cell phones, etc that make life so much easier for us, but do come at a high cost.
For us growing up, color television was about as state of the art as it got. No more rabbit years was revolutionary.
People have so many options available in this buy now, pay later mindset. But the only problem is many will have nothing in the coffers left come retirement time, never mind leaving an inheritance for their kids.
I know a few middle aged couples who have next to nothing put away for their future. Our entitlement to easy living comes as a two edged sword.

[trof]

25. Kinda like me and Miz t.

We're both post depression, born in the 40s.
Miz t. was a stay at home mom except for when I was laid off (3 times) and when we needed a 'cash cow' for our daughter's high school and college tuition.

We got our first 'bank' credit card (Mastercard) in the early 70s.
(Before that there were 'charge-a-plates' for individual stores.)
We had recently married and were getting all the things you need to set up housekeeping. We didn't pay the bill off every month, but usually made more than the minimum payment.

Then I was furloughed from my job as an airline pilot the first time.
In one day we went from living what I thought was 'within our means' to way overextended.

Miz t. went to work and I got a low paying job.
It took us a while to pay off that credit balance, and it was a very good, if somewhat painful, lesson.

From then on I pay the full balance, EVERY month, or quit using the card until it was paid.
If you can't do that then you shouldn't use a credit card.

[Mike03]

26. Beautiful Post.

Your story sounds like my story, only with everything shifted up in time by a generation.

Your post is really poignant to me right now, because my father is ailing and my parents are getting older, and they have accomplished so much with so little that it literally brings tears to my eyes when I think about their lives and sufferings.

Soon my story will end like yours, I guess.

[nomatrix123]

28. And words our parents lived by

"Buy American" keeps Americans working. The reality of the depression stayed with them. It's difficult to find manufacturers in the U.S.
creating a void in training of blue collar workers.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. I think we're taught to want too much these days

By the culture at large, I mean. It can be a hard message to resist. Doesn't everyone deserve a new car, a big house, an iPod, a new computer, a flat-screen TV, a game system? Isn't that just what everyone has?

Personally, I break out in hives if I have to spend too much money. And I cannot spend money that I don't have, unless we're talking life and death emergencies. But I'm fortunate, and some care earlier on and a spouse just as careful as I am means we're in good shape right now.

But I see younger people extending themselves for new flashy cars and huge houses - on mortgages with little to nothing down! They have good jobs, but carry credit card balances to buy more toys. And they're one bit of bad luck from financial catastrophe.

I think care like your parents' was admired then. I think it's not anymore. Heck, we're told to go spend money as a way to fight the terrorists, right? Nuts.