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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:12 PM
Original message
" oh, so you WANT higher taxes"
None of the reasons I go to church involves US politics. But one of the women in the chior just had to go there. She and her husband are both from upper middle class families, college degrees from expensive schools all around, a very large house in an expensive part of town. She asked, I replied - yes, I voted Obama in the primary.

"Oh, so you WANT higher taxes." -- it was clearly an attack. Her face said it all. I was so low I was not even worthy of her contempt. I wanted to tell her to go fuck herself, but being in the house of the Lord I managed to behave lest I cause some dear old lady to expire from shock at my language.

Then I told her why I voted Obama. Quietly, genuinely. I want to tell you all what I told her because in "hate radio" progandized political climate we live in, I think a little reality might be just what is needed to win people over.

------------------

Carol, I said, I don't have the luxury of voting based on propaganda. My family's income, in raw dollars, has dropped by almost half over the last 10 years - that's not even accounting for inflation. My husband and I were not fortunate enough to be born with either the brains nor the privilege to be college graduates. My husband has worked with his body 60-70 hrs a week for more than 40 years, every week of his life since he was 15. Hard, back breaking (literally) labor. The man used every talent the good Lord saw fit to give him to eek out a living for himself and his family. What did he get for all this hard work? Pay cuts. Benefit cuts. Plant closings. Law that made it MUCH harder for him to join with his co-workers and ask for a fair shake from his employer - all supported by the very government that took 57% of his income.

You know what? I know for a fact the Republicans are not going choose policies and pass laws that favor Americans like my husband on equal footing with Americans like you. The Republicans have spent the better part of 30 years making a point of choosing policies and passing laws that benefit Americans like you at the expense of Americans like me. While I have continued to pay 57% of my total gross income in taxes, and losing ground economically the whole while, you are now down to paying 25% of your total gross income in taxes, AND gaining ground economically to boot -- all thanks to the economic policies and laws passed by our shared government.

I voted for Obama out of desperation. I really don't know what he'll do. He may follow the trend and continue to choose policies and support laws that make my life more and more difficult. I may get disappointed. The deck is not stacked in his favor because there is a whole Congress and BILLIONS upon BILLIONS in lobby money standing in his way. But he's my only and probably last hope. Because quite honestly, if the next President doesn't swing the pendulum back toward the little people just a little, it will be too late to save Americans like me.



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flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great answer
And good for you! Did she reply??
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. And Carol replied.....? ( n/t )
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It was wasted on Carol the koolaider - however


However, there were several standing in the group listening that are not partisans (few people I know ARE) and realized the importance of what I was saying. More than one came to me and said they have been thinking the same thing. That this election isn't about Security for them. It's more about economics and I gave them a lot to think about.
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rcsl1998 Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, She's For A Birth Tax?
The newborns will have to pay for the sins (debt) of their fathers (and mothers)?
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. and she's for increasing our "death tax"!
Edited on Thu Feb-14-08 08:36 PM by calipendence
The REAL death tax that helps pay for us to kill more and more people in Iraq to make her and the president's buddies Halliburton, etc. richer.
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bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. How could you possibly
be paying 57% in taxes?
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You'd be surprised
Start adding them up.
Federal, state, local, Income
Social Security
Medicare
all sorts of sales taxes
property taxes
personal property taxes

I have also included the taxes my employer pays directly to the government on my behalf rather than pay them to me -- for instance their portion of my SS taxes.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Thank you for pointing that out.
People do not realize exactly how much they are really paying in taxes, yet are NOT getting the benefit for the amount they have been paying.
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bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. So would you rather
your employer pay the SS matching funds to you directly? What would you do with it? You seem to be asking for lower taxes.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I am not asking for lower taxes
I'm asking for proportionate representation in government. As it stands now, the folks who pay the least proportionally, get the most.
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bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sounds to me like you need
lower taxes.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I'm wondering why she didn't tell you that if you lived in Europe
You'd be paying 58% in taxes - and she wouldn't bother to mention the health insurance that comes with it.

Thank you for pointing out the **real** tax situation of Middle (and ever sinking) Class America.

And if you do manange to save a dollar, it will be something, like doing a "california" stop at a stop sign. those things are way too expensive (But communities have jumped the rate on all penalties because of how they don't get the Federal monies any more)
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Donk Yore Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't go to church
and I don't discuss things with ignorant shitheads.

That's just me
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. And yet you post on DU...
:silly:
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emdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great answer...
the only thing they know are bumper-sticker answers. You were wise to answer her as you did. Did she reply?

:hug:

emdee
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. So very, very well said!
Excellent response!

This is the kind of hypocrisy that pushed me out of churches and back into my own private Agnostic, Animistic and Pagan-istic mind.

The love of money is the root of all evil... and it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God... our righteousness is but filthy rags before the Lord...

I wouldn't have done near so well as you:) Keeping a cool head isn't my forte...
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well said. k&r. nm
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Higher taxes on the ultra-rich wealth-holders that are currently dodging ALL tax....
These wealth-holders make up less than 1% of our society.

Bush Continues to Shift Tax Burden Away from Ultra-Rich

by Jonathan Singer, Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 04:47:36 PM EST

A central tenet of George W. Bush's governing ideology during the last five and a half years as President, as well as six years as Texas Governor, has been to shift the burden of taxes away from the wealthiest among us to those who have a more difficult time making ends meet. When this ultimate goal cannot be achieved through policy -- i.e. through legislation -- Bush has signaled a desire and willingness to use administrative fiat to make life easier for the extremely wealthy. The New York Times' David Cay Johnston details the latest example of this effort.

Unless the firing of half of all estate tax lawyers at the IRS doubles the efficiency of the remaining attorneys -- and I'm extremely skeptical that it will -- this will be yet another tax cut given by George W. Bush to his super-rich allies. And at a time at which working Americans are hurting at the pump, the country is embarked in a never-ending military engagement in Iraq and the federal deficit continues to stand close to an all-time high, we simply cannot afford to give those least in need more tax cuts, particularly outside of the normal legislative process.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/7/23/164736/504
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. You MUST be from the south!!! ONLY Southern "ladies" can make shit sound like sugar!!!
:hug:

If you're not,...I give you :hug: :hug: :hug:

My Mom is from the north, my *dying* Dad from the south. :shrug:
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I am a SOUTH GA girl.
And quite frankly proud of it. :)
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-14-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. You were too nice... Just say.."Oh..MY taxes won't go up.. just yours"
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