Oh Oh: Kelly death not suicide, says MP

[malaise]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6390981.stm

<snip>
Norman Baker tells BBC Two's The Conspiracy Files he has reached the conclusion Dr Kelly's life was "deliberately taken by others".

Mr Baker has also obtained letters suggesting the coroner had doubts about the 2003 Hutton inquiry's ability to establish the cause of death.

Hutton reached a verdict of suicide but a public inquest was never completed.

The Liberal Democrat MP said toxicology reports suggested there was not enough painkiller in Dr Kelly's system to kill him, and the method he had apparently chosen to commit suicide was not a recognised or effective one.

"I'm satisfied it was not suicide. And after that you're left with the conclusion that his life was deliberately taken by others," he tells The Conspiracy Files.

He tells the programme it has been suggested to him that the weapons scientist was assassinated.

[ck4829]

1. Something else that is of a little interest - Dr. Kelly was an adherent of the Bahá'í Faith

Which has similar concepts as Islam on pertaining to suicide, since it is partially based on Islam as well as other religions, and the rule about it is that you really, really shouldn't commit suicide.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

2. I never thought for a second that Kelly committed suicide. Please read this letter that was written

by doctors and sent to the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,1131833,00.html

Letters
Our doubts about Dr Kelly's suicide



Tuesday January 27, 2004
The Guardian

As specialist medical professionals, we do not consider the evidence given at the Hutton inquiry has demonstrated that Dr David Kelly committed suicide.

Dr Nicholas Hunt, the forensic pathologist at the Hutton inquiry, concluded that Dr Kelly bled to death from a self-inflicted wound to his left wrist. We view this as highly improbable. Arteries in the wrist are of matchstick thickness and severing them does not lead to life-threatening blood loss. Dr Hunt stated that the only artery that had been cut - the ulnar artery - had been completely transected. Complete transection causes the artery to quickly retract and close down, and this promotes clotting of the blood.

The ambulance team reported that the quantity of blood at the scene was minimal and surprisingly small. It is extremely difficult to lose significant amounts of blood at a pressure below 50-60 systolic in a subject who is compensating by vasoconstricting. To have died from haemorrhage, Dr Kelly would have had to lose about five pints of blood - it is unlikely that he would have lost more than a pint.

Alexander Allan, the forensic toxicologist at the inquiry, considered the amount ingested of Co-Proxamol insufficient to have caused death. Allan could not show that Dr Kelly had ingested the 29 tablets said to be missing from the packets found. Only a fifth of one tablet was found in his stomach. Although levels of Co-Proxamol in the blood were higher than therapeutic levels, Allan conceded that the blood level of each of the drug's two components was less than a third of what would normally be found in a fatal overdose.

We dispute that Dr Kelly could have died from haemorrhage or from Co-Proxamol ingestion or from both. The coroner, Nicholas Gardiner, has spoken recently of resuming the inquest into his death. If it re-opens, as in our opinion it should, a clear need exists to scrutinise more closely Dr Hunt's conclusions as to the cause of death.

David Halpin
Specialist in trauma and orthopaedic surgery

C Stephen Frost
Specialist in diagnostic radiology

Searle Sennett
Specialist in anaesthesiology

[e-mail]

[malaise]

3. Thanks for this

Truth will out. Amazing how tin foil hats and conspiracy theorists seem to have a better understanding of reality than those who buy the official spin.

I never believed David Kelly killed himself.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. You're welcomed and honestly speaking, I wish I didn't live in a world where I know these

conspiracies are so very real and truly wish I didn't have the good sense to recognize them. My life would be a great deal more peaceful if I stayed asleep.

[Delphinus]

15. Mine too ...

but there is no closing the door once it's been opened.

[merh]

35. Like Charlie

in the book Flowers for Algernon, it would be kinder not to know, better to remain oblivious to the realities and cruelties of the world. :(

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. That is an excellent analogy. Great book and Robertson was incredible in the film! eom

[merh]

41. ever since Bush took office, I have felt like Charlie

it hurts too much to know, wouldn't it be an easier life to return to ignorance?

I do love Robertson and that movie, I wonder if it is on DVD?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. Yes, it is on DVD! I just did an eBay search.

Know what's mind blowing to me? I was all of 16 when that film came out 39 YEARS Ago!!! Geeze!

[merh]

44. I was 7 when it came out

that tells you how it impacted me. I so love that movie and I have a list of DVD's I want, that one is on the list.

I also need to get another copy of the book.

[cascadiance]

46. I could play ultimate "conspiracy theorist" on why the other thread on this is broken....

... You know the one that's at the top of the greatest page here, but I'll let that one slide to being a coincidence as I don't believe DUers part of it! :)

One other link that was noted in the other page which was an interesting response to my bringing up the link to Valerie Plame's case was this one, that the earlier poster hasn't brought up here yet on the 2003 report of DOD whistleblower Nelda Rogers, who reported of plans to plant WMD's in Iraq being foiled because of screwups with friendly fire, etc.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

This story seems to be made that much more worth looking at now that we see others conclude that Kelley's demise wasn't as "accidental" or "suicide-related" as earlier reported.

[muriel_volestrangler]

51. Al Martin has been extensively discussed on DU

and the conclusion was that he's a fantasist. I think threads that are started using him as a reference get locked.

Really, his story doesn't have anything to do with Kelly anyway. Neither does it have any evidence. It's an amazing thing, that he claims has been completely covered up, with 100% success, except for someone who spilled the beans to him. Any reason to believe they'd go to him, rather than someone reputable? :shrug:

[madokie]

4. I suspect he crossed the same folks who brought us the Plame outing

and the shutting down of brewster jennings. And the money takes us to the vp no doubt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. I think it's at least two-fold. The first as you said and also, there was an epidemic of

microbiologists dying under mysterious circumstances.

[H2O Man]

12. "Four days after Novak's

article appeared, Britain was convulsed by the suicide of a former weapons inspector named David Kelly, a longtime civil servant in the ministry of defense. Kelly had been a source for the BBC's expose of the charge that the government had exaggerated the threat posed by Saddam. He had been under increasing pressure from the investigation and had apparently killed himself. I received several calls from friends wondering, first, whether it had in fact been a suicide; and, if not, was I watching my own security? They also wanted to know how I was bearing up under the pressure. I, too, wondered about Kelly's death and later told a BBC producer that I hoped the inquest into his death would be credible.

"I was horrified that I could actually harbor suspicions -- ones that were also being expressed by others -- that a democratic government might actually do bodily harm to a political opponent. ...."

--The Politics of Truth; Joseph Wilson; page 349

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. thanks for posting. It's hard for my to believe that Joe Wilso is that naive and hope

that he was feigning innocence.

[malaise]

25. I have long believed that Kelly's assassination

is linked to those invented WMDs.

[Spazito]

37. Also, Kelly's relationship with another key player in the Plame

outing, Judith Miller. The "dots" continue to connect in a much broader way than simply the VP's snit over Joe Wilson's op-ed, imo.

[Cha]

50. I'm remembering Dr Kelly's last call

was to judy miller at the NYT so I don't know what that was all about?

After reading posts I see where it was an email not a call between Dr Kelly and the warmongering judy miller.

[WiseButAngrySara]

10. Wow! I have been a long time doubter too, after reading

what has been posted about this most suspicious 'suicide' on DU. Not death by overdose, and certainly not death by bleeding from a severed ulnar artery. Most individuals who die from 'slashing' their wrists are able to do so by slashing both wrists and being aided by a warm bath which aids blood flow and decreases the likelihood of vessel contraction.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. And that fact by many accounts that there was very little blood found at the scene. And Sara!

:hi:

[WiseButAngrySara]

19. Hello Sweet Ommmmmmmmmmm !!!!

:hi:

[babsbunny]

5. Who is Dr. Kelly?

:shrug:

[babsbunny]

6. Never mind, I just found the info..............

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x265163

[cassiepriam]

7. Duh. Never looked like a suicide from the getgo.

[nolabels]

16. Maybe the UK is attempting to uncouple from a coming BFEE train wreck........

Wonder what ever happens to all them "dogged right wing follow the law proclaimers" when a dude like Bush gets selected :shrug:

OK, Not A BFEE Hit (Maybe) Let's List The BFEE 'Convenient' Deaths Then...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=200861

[cassiepriam]

29. More of the rats running off the ship, yep.

[Prophet 451]

53. Forgive me

This must seem like a rather irrelevant question but what does "BFEE" stand for?

[Gelliebeans]

58. Bush Family Evil Empire

If I am not mistaken.

[tanyev]

11. Kick.

[WiseButAngrySara]

17. See these links on suicide by ulnar artery. It's almost impossible!

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm060426/text/60426w24.htm

26 Apr 2006 : Column 1177W—continued

Suicide Statistics
Norman Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many individuals have died as a consequence of their ulnar artery being severed in each year since 1997. <65172>
John Healey: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the National Statistician who has been asked to reply.
Letter from Karen Dunnell, dated 26 April 2006:
As National Statistician I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking how many individuals have died as a consequence of their ulnar arteries being severed in each year from 1997. (65172)
The most recent year for which figures are available is 2004. The attached table shows the number of deaths where the main injury was to the ulnar artery in England and Wales for the years 1997 to 2004.

Number of deaths from injury to the ulnar artery(25), England and Wales, 1997 to 2004(26)

Number of deaths
1997 0
1998 1
1999 0
2000 0
2001 2
2002 1
2003 1
2004 1

Also, see this interesting commentary...
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/MediumRare/31.htm

A second red flag is the nature of the wounds on Kelly’s wrist. Dr. Nicholas Hunt, who performed the autopsy, testified there were several superficial “scratches” or cuts on the wrist and one deep wound that severed the ulnar artery but not the radial artery.

The fact that the ulnar artery was severed, but not the radial artery, strongly suggests that the knife wound was inflicted drawing the blade from the inside of the wrist (the little finger side closest to the body) to the outside where the radial artery is located much closer to the surface of the skin than is the ulnar artery. For those familiar with first aid, the radial artery is the one used to determine the pulse rate.

Just hold your left arm out with the palm up and see how difficult it would be to slash across the wrist avoiding the radial artery while severing the ulnar artery. However, a second person situated to the left of Kelly who held or picked up the arm and slashed across the wrist would start on the inside of the wrist severing the ulnar artery first.

A reasonably competent medical examiner or forensic pathologist would certainly be able to determine in which direction the knife was drawn across the wrist. That question was never asked nor the answer volunteered. In fact, a complete autopsy report would state in which direction the wounds were inflicted. The coroner’s inquest was never completed as it was preempted by the Hutton inquiry and the autopsy report will not be made public. Neither will the toxicology report.
http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/3/882

Ann Thorac Surg 2003;75:882-884
© 2003 The Society of Thoracic Surgeons
Original article: cardiovascular

The radial artery is larger than the ulnar

Heikki V. Riekkinen, MD, PhD*a, Kari O. Karkola, MD, PhDb, Annaliisa Kankainen, PhDc
a Department of Thoracic and Vascular Surgery, Jyväskylä Central Hospital, Jyväskylä, Finland
b Department of Pathology and Forensic Medicine, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland
c Department of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland
Accepted for publication October 1, 2002.
BACKGROUND: The radial artery is presently widely used as a bypass graft for coronary artery reconstruction. However, the traditional opinion that the ulnar artery is the larger forearm artery has been questioned.
METHODS: The internal diameters of the radial and ulnar arteries were measured at the wrist in postmortem angiograms of 24 cadavers. Differences in mean values of variables between ulnar and radial arteries were analyzed using the Wilcoxon test.
RESULTS: The mean diameter of the radial artery was 28% larger than that of the ulnar artery in the right arm (p < 0.001) and 26% larger in the left arm (p < 0.001). In the right arm the radial artery was dominant in 20 of 24 cadavers (83%), the ulnar artery in 3 of 24 (13%), and the arteries were equal in 1 of 24 (4%). In the left arm the figures were 17 of 24 cadavers (71%), 3 of 24 (13%), and 4 of 24 (17%), respectively.
CONCLUSIONS: In view of the present investigation the radial artery should be considered the larger forearm artery of the hand in most patients

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods
Cutting the radial or ulnar arteries

Slashing or slitting one's wrists entails cutting through the wrists until one of the arteries was damaged. There would be slow blood loss from the radial and/or the ulnar artery.
It is not an immediately lethal method, as the arteries tend to try to spasm shut in response to blood loss. Bleeding to death by veins is even harder and rarer. It can take a few hours or even more to finally die from the blood loss, depending on a number of variables. This method is also frequently used as self-harm, therefore, not all people who slash their wrists intend suicide (this is then called parasuicide where suicide is either not sought or is not accomplished). In these cases, there may be collateral damage to nerves and tendons, which could cause partial loss of sensation, or the ability to control one's hand.

[Ghost Dog]

65. Kelly death paramedics query verdict

http://www.guardian.co.uk/hutton/story/0,,1372077,00.html

In the cramped office of an Oxford law firm, Dave Bartlett's solicitor turns to him and asks if he is happy to stand by the dramatic comment he has just made about the death of Dr David Kelly.

Bartlett's eyes do not waver. 'Yes. I have always said that had it been a member of my family I wouldn't have accepted what they came out with.'

Sitting next to Bartlett is his colleague, Vanessa Hunt. Like him, she has been a paramedic for more than 15 years. She does not hesitate either. 'There just wasn't a lot of blood... When somebody cuts an artery, whether accidentally or intentionally, the blood pumps everywhere. I just think it is incredibly unlikely that he died from the wrist wound we saw.'

<snip>

When they arrived at the woods 15 minutes later it was immediately clear that this was not a run-of-the-mill incident. 'There were a lot of police around,' said Hunt. 'Some were in civilian clothes and others in black jackets and army fatigues. I thought it might have been a firearms incident as there were the guys from the special armed response units.'

The paramedics parked their ambulance. Carrying their resuscitation equipment, they followed two armed-response police for about a mile until they reached a wooded area. In a clearing, they first saw Kelly's body.

'He was about 20 metres away lying flat down with his feet towards us,' said Hunt. Bartlett's first thought was that the 'poor chap had hung himself and fallen from the tree'.

As they approached the body, Hunt went to the right of Kelly and Bartlett to the left. Hunt checked for a pulse and Bartlett shone a light into his eyes to see if there was any pupil reaction. They then put four electrodes on his chest to detect any heart activity, but there was none. Kelly was pronounced dead at 10.07am.

Both saw that the left sleeves of his jacket and shirt had been pulled up to just below the elbow and there was dried blood around his left wrist.

'There was no gaping wound... there wasn't a puddle of blood around,' said Hunt. 'There was a little bit of blood on the nettles to the left of his left arm. But there was no real blood on the body of the shirt. The only other bit of blood I saw was on his clothing. It was the size of a 50p piece above the right knee on his trousers.'

Hunt found this very strange. 'If you manage to cut a wrist and catch an artery you would get a spraying of blood, regardless of whether it's an accident... Because of the nature of an arterial cut, you get a pumping action. I would certainly expect a lot more blood on his clothing, on his shirt. If you choose to cut your wrists, you don't worry about getting blood on your clothes.

'I didn't see any blood on his right hand... If he used his right hand to cut his wrist, from an arterial wound you would expect some spray.'

Bartlett agreed: 'I remember saying to one of the policemen it didn't look like he died from that and suggesting he must have taken an overdose or something else.'

/...

[WiseButAngrySara]

74. Yep! Arterial blood pumps and sprays like a hose under

pressure. Not enough blood to account for death by exsanguination and not enough blood to account for (even the ulnar artery) a major arterial bleed.

Thanks for posting. This is illuminating. And these paramedics have years of experience...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. BTW...the video will probably be available tomorrow on google video. Their last installment

on 9/11 (a hit piece) has already been posted there.

[WiseButAngrySara]

22. Do you have the title of the video? Or more info? ....n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. Here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylwz3EqpgcU

This was a hit piece Sara. They interviewed Alex Jones for several days and only used a few minutes devoted to him, not covering the tomes of info. They also only had on 3 people who believed that 9/11 was an inside job and had 11 people trying to discredit them.

[WiseButAngrySara]

27. Oh thank you! I'll watch it now. ....n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. My pleasure Sweet Sara!!!! eom

[lovuian]

20. FINALLY the TRUTH and JUDITH MILLER was the last

one he emailed... ahhh the plot gets deeper into drama

[soothsayer]

23. she must be one of those 'dark actors'....

[WiseButAngrySara]

24. That is a most curious fact, and one I was waiting for others

to address. Very suspicious, IMHO, to say the least.

[AnOhioan]

21. May the lies and coverups be exposed....

and that the perpetrators see justice. That is my wish for both the US and the UK.

[go west young man]

57. Add a wish for all the Iraqi dead.

[InvisibleTouch]

30. Okay, I know zilch about this issue, but...

...from my undestanding it's very unusual for a man to commit suicide by the wrist-slashing method. It's traditionally a "female" mode of choice.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. I'M SHOCKED. SHOCKED, I SAY!

NOT!

[malaise]

32. And so say all of us n/t

[KoKo]

33. And then there's that note to Judith Miller about "dark forces" and

that he wrote a book with her.....

[JackRiddler]

34. kick - so that murder will out! nt

[Cetacea]

36. kicked & recommended. nt

[WiseButAngrySara]

38. And another kick from me so that 'murder will out'! and justice

can still prevail for the dead, who can no longer speak!

[merh]

40. I have a question about the last few paragraphs of the article you site.

Why would the Iraqis want to kill Kelly, as the former colleague alleges? If he was saying no WMDs and thus no need for war, why would the Iraqis want his death? Is this just another twist put out there to cover what actually may have happened?

A former colleague of the weapons inspector, former UN weapons inspector Richard Spertzel, tells the programme he believes the scientist was murdered by the Iraqis.

Mr Spertzel, who was America's most senior biological weapons inspector and who worked alongside Dr Kelly for many years in Iraq, believes the Iraqi regime may have pursued a vendetta against Dr Kelly.

"I believe that David was probably a victim of Iraqi Intelligence Service because of long standing enmity of Iraq towards David," he says.

"A number of us were on an Iraqi hit list. I was number three, and my understanding, David was only a couple behind that.

"And none of the people on that hit list were welcome in Iraq. Immediately after David's death, a number of the other inspectors and I exchanged emails saying, 'Be careful.' "

[grasswire]

42. maybe the Iraqi referred to is Chalabi

Didn't Chalabi want war?

[merh]

45. Maybe so

or like I said, disinformation put out there so that when murder is uncovered, they have another suspect and not the World Domination Evil (WDE) that has done such damage.

[malaise]

47. I don't know

I don't even know whether Mr Spertzel was a double agent. This entire WMDs mess has made all notions of spy versus spy fly through all windows. What I know is that Kelly's death is very suspicious.

[merh]

48. I agree with the suspicious nature of Kelly's death.

There is the optimist in me that wants to believe the good spies want to stop the bad spies.

[ronnie624]

59. I'm very suspicious of Richard Spertzel.

It is he, who claims the Iraqi government had Dr. Kelly assassinated, an illogical and ridiculous claim, in my opinion.

A Google search reveals him to be a shill for the Bush administration. Here he is, blathering in an opinion article for the Wall Street Journal:

Even as evidence is uncovered that Saddam Hussein was planning to revive his nuclear-weapons program at the earliest possible date, politicians and pundits alike lament the failure of coalition forces to find a "smoking gun." Despite the recent discovery of plans and parts for a uranium-enrichment centrifuge, some presidential candidates have accused the Bush administration of lying about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction to justify the war with Iraq.

Such assertions ignore all that has been learned and has transpired during the past 12-plus years. As I've said time and again, expecting any inspection regime to find a massive cache of WMDs is a lesson in self-delusion. Such folly can only bring cheer to those who opposed the war in the first place and to those who simply oppose the Bush administration.

Recall that during the first Gulf War, Iraq stored its biological-agent-filled munitions in pits dug in the sand or in abandoned railroad tunnels. Such sites are not easily found. Good intelligence emanating from those Iraqi personnel responsible for the deployment, protection and control of such storage sites will be required. Indeed, it was an Iraqi scientist who last week led coalition forces to the site where the uranium-enrichment equipment was buried. But many WMD personnel were part of the Special Security Organization under Saddam's younger son, Qusay. The information is not likely to be obtained easily.

<http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003688>

Such statements, automatically make anything Mr Spertzel says suspect, in my mind.

[oblivious]

69. Very suspicious indeed. Thanks for the article. I suspected as much.

[And the Oscar goes]

55. Yeah - and - why not just shoot him in the head?

Why cover up with a fake suicide if you just want to kill him, anyway? A fake suicide is the best way to minimize suspicion of an assassination - sth MOSSAD would worry about, but not Iraqi intelligence.

[merh]

56. Good point.

And welcome to DU :hi:

[Cha]

49. Cui Bono?

And a big freakin' "DUH" to this "suicided" report.

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. Bono ad belligerenti occidentali, Ditzy! Cerebellum defunctum. Quis alter?

....or "belligerentorum", if "cui" is genitive, not dative. (Long time since I was taught O Level Latin.)

[Prophet 451]

54. Institute of Working-Out The Obvious again

I'll say up front, I don't understand a lot of the medical evidence but as a long-time conspiracy researcher (one of the sane ones, thank you), student of history and part-time collector of mysteries, whenever someone's sudden death is hugely convienient for the ruling powers, I start smelling rodent. Especially when that death is wildly out of character and comes amid a seeming epidemic of similar deaths.

[WiseButAngrySara]

60. You start smelling rodent ...! ....n/t

[Devon77]

67. Kelly:......I'll be found dead in the woods

British Iraqi weapons expert David Kelly predicted he would be "found dead in the woods" five months before he apparently committed suicide in a forested area near his home, an inquiry into his death has been told.

A senior British diplomat, David Boucher, said Dr Kelly had predicted his own death if Britain invaded Iraq, in a conversation with him in Geneva in late February, about a month before the start of the war.

Mr Boucher, Britain's permanent representative to the United Nations Conference on Disarmament, said at the time he believed Dr Kelly was concerned about being seen as a "liar" by Iraqi contacts, whom he had encouraged to co-operate with UN weapons inspectors before the war, assuring them they "had nothing to fear".

http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/08/22/1061529340640.html

[Bucky]

61. I'm extremely skeptical about conspiracy theories. But this one seems different.

Most news items about Roswell, grassy knolls, and the illuminati elicit yawns from me. I can't pinpoint it yet, but something about this case suggests to me that everyone should keep an ear to the ground about Dr. Kelly's death.

[T_i_B]

62. Any UK DUer's watch the programme last night?

It's kinda amusing to see this Conspiracy Files episode lauded when the previous one has caused howls of outrage in the 9/11 forum from people who hadn't even bother to watch it.

[malaise]

63. No but

I'll search for a link. Thanks.

[Devon77]

68. I haven't watched it , only watched the first one on google video

I think it was run on BBC2 immediately after Top Gear, which is huge in Britain and they showed New Orleans hit after Katrina and still not being rebuild over a year after.
Probably a lot of people not interested in this kind of stuff or access to the internet might get curious.

Hearing stuff like this should raise eyebrows

Cameraman (BBC): But it does look exactly like a controlled demolition
Davin Coburn (PM): I understand why people might think that and I see what they saying, but when you learn the facts about the way the building was built
and about the way that it supported itself and the damage that was done from the collapsing towers that preceded it.
The idea that it was a demolition just holds no water.

<snip>

Female narrator(BBC):
In it's provisional report on building 7, the official investigator suggested the collapse was caused by intense fire
as that fatally weakened the buildings steal frame.

But they said this had a low probability and more research was needed.

Five years on their final report is still being prepared.
It's thought investigators will conclude that the evidence supports their initial theory, the building collapsed it wasn't demolished.

[Ghost Dog]

64. "Have you got blood on your hands, Prime Minister? Are you going to resign?"

The Scotsman, Sun 20 Jul 2003

With the brutal questions: "Have you got blood on your hands, Prime Minister? Are you going to resign?" hanging in the air, Tony Blair appears to freeze in front of the world’s cameras.

His face ashen, the man who is supposedly never flustered by the media simply stares into space, silent, exhausted, apparently beaten.

For journalists used to an effortlessly relaxed, urbane public style, it is a shocking sight, all the more stark when compared with Blair’s rapturous reception in front of the US Congress only two days earlier.

After several seconds, which feel like an eternity, the Prime Minister is eventually saved at this press conference in the Japanese spa resort of Hakone by an intervention from his hosts. But the damage has been done.

No one can be in any doubt now as to how deeply rocked Blair’s administration has been by the death of Dr David Kelly, respected scientist, alleged "mole" and now apparent suicide victim.

...

Alastair Campbell, who masterminded the ferocity of the inquiry into the BBC’s story and its source, had returned to London on Thursday following Blair’s victorious address to Congress. They spoke when the Prime Minister arrived at the New Otani Hotel in Tokyo, and agreed the fight-back strategy: reserve the right to stay silent.

/...

[malaise]

66. More links

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6378681.stm

[joeunderdog]

70. This won't make MSM USA. No story here.

This is juicy, sexy, filled with murder, secret agents and a myriad of other elements that would make this a terrific story that would fill the news hour every night.

But you wouldn't want the complicit media to call attention to just how deep and sinister the contrived WMD story was, would you?

[malaise]

71. Great point n/t

[TheBaldyMan]

72. here's a Google video link to an interview he gave

from http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk">The Dossier, a UK website is an interview he gave to GMTV a early morning breakfast TV show.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4780290451650428491">Norman Baker's interview (12min51sec)

get the latest from http://dr-david-kelly.blogspot.com/

[malaise]

73. Thanks n/t