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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:37 PM
Original message
U.N. says waterboarding should be prosecuted as torture
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The controversial interrogation technique known as waterboarding and used by the United States qualifies as torture, the U.N. human rights chief said on Friday.

"I would have no problems with describing this practice as falling under the prohibition of torture," the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, told a news conference in Mexico City.

Arbour made her comment in response to a question about whether U.S. officials could be tried for the use of waterboarding that referred to CIA director Michael Hayden telling Congress on Tuesday his agency had used waterboarding on three detainees captured after the September 11 attacks.

Violators of the U.N. Convention against Torture should be prosecuted under the principle of 'universal jurisdiction' which allows countries to try accused war criminals from other nations, Arbour said.

"There are several precedents worldwide of states exercising their universal jurisdiction ... to enforce the torture convention and we can only hope that we will see more and more of these avenues of redress," Arbour said.

The U.S. Congress is considering banning the practice, in which prisoners are immobilized and water is poured into their breathing passages to simulate drowning.

Arbour referred to an arrest warrant issued in 1998 by a Spanish judge for former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet, who died in 2006, on charges of torture, murder and kidnapping in the years that followed his 1973 coup.

Latin American dictatorships in the 1970s and 1980s were known to use waterboarding on political prisoners.

link: http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKN0852061620080208
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why It Was Called 'Water Torture'
By Richard E. Mezo
Sunday, February 10, 2008; Page B07

Last week, much to my dismay, government officials testified before Congress that the United States has used the interrogation technique known as waterboarding and would like to hold out the option of using it in the future. As someone who has experienced waterboarding, albeit in a controlled setting, I know that the act is indeed torture. I was waterboarded during my training to become a Navy flight crew member. As has been noted in The Post and other media outlets, waterboarding is "real drowning that simulates death." It's an experience our country should not subject people to.

In February 1963, I was ordered from the Naval Air Station in Alameda, Calif., to Whidbey Island, Wash., for survival training. Part of the week-long program was a brief incarceration in a simulated prisoner-of-war camp; at that time, the program was modeled on events that had occurred during the Korean War. First we were to be "held" in a mock North Korean camp and later transferred to a Chinese camp.

The enlisted men who supervised the training worked to make the situation realistic, and they succeeded in convincing me that I never wanted to become a prisoner of war. I recall that after our "capture," the sailors -- wearing Red Army uniforms -- marched the dozen or so of us along the ocean without our boots. It was very cold, and all our resolve and determination could not prevent our courage from eventually draining out through our wet feet. They took us to a compound of small huts with dirt floors. The camp was surrounded by barbed wire, and the entrance was guarded by armed soldiers.

Several times that night I was on the verge of speaking out, of trying to call the whole thing off, and I suspect that I was not the only one. We held on because none of us trainees wanted to be the person to quit. The camp had an array of torture devices, including the infamous "black box" (which I actually liked because it was the only time I was off the ground and not miserably cold), and our captors also threatened executions, though we had the comfort of knowing that they would not carry through on such threats.

We were all interrogated a few times, some of us more than others. During one interrogation, I was led blindfolded into a room. Suddenly one of the "enemy" hit me hard in the stomach -- a sucker punch that left me doubled over, out of breath. I think three other people were present, but I was never sure. Two men grabbed me at my sides. They put a pole of some kind under my knees and bent me over backward. My head went down lower than the rest of my body.

The questions (What is your unit? Where are you from?) were asked by one man. But we were not supposed to talk. I remember that the blindfold was heavy and completely covered my face. As the two men held me down, one on each side, someone began pouring water onto the blindfold, and suddenly I was drowning. The water streamed into my nose and then into my mouth when I gasped for breath. I couldn't stop it. All I could breathe was water, and it was terrifying. I think I began to lose consciousness. I felt my lungs begin to fill with burning liquid.

Pulling out my fingernails or even cutting off a finger would have been preferable. At least if someone had attacked my hands, I would have had to simply tolerate pain. But drowning is another matter.

more at link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/08/AR2008020803156.html
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. perhaps.. 'attempted murder', people have died..
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Then DO IT, goddammit! I'm sick of all the TALK. DO SOMETHING! PLEASE!
Someone, somewhere, pleaseeeee... JUST. FUCKING. DO. IT!

"Someone says".. "someone thinks"... "someone feels"... BLAH!! Just STOP "saying", "feeling" and "thinking" and goddamned DO SOMETHING!

:banghead:

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. It isn't just "controlled drowning", the big lie "We don't torture..."
can be disproved by just a few links.

Here's the opening paragraph from an official memo published when Watergate was breaking AND THERE WERE CALLS FOR INVESTIGATIONS OF THE US INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY-it refers to Project ARTICHOKE which was operational in the 1950's.

"Artichoke is the Agency cryptonym for the study and/or use of 'special' interrogation methods and techniques. These 'special' interrogation methods have been known to include the use of drugs and chemicals, hypnosis, and 'total isolation a form of psychological harassment."

The link is to that memo published January 31, 1975 and is below-from The National Security Archive, it's a pdf.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB54/st02.pdf

Martin A. Lee published "Truth Serums & Torture" June 4, 2002 at Consortium News.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/060402a.html

Cheryl Welsh is a United Nations recognized expert on "non-lethal weapons", she is a human rights activist against tactics and techniques that attack the human nervous system and the founder of Mind Justice.

She credits University of Wisconsin Professor Alfred McCoy with the "discovery" of what is called "no touch" torture, which results in the "loss of personal identity".

Here's a link to a thread I started January 24, 2008 with Cheryl Welsh's latest work in the OP and some related posts.
"In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom: CIA 'no touch' torture"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x333974

leveymg started a thread December 13, 2007-it is archived and the subject line speaks for itself.
"CIA Detainee Torture, Memory Loss, and the Bush Administration's Falsification of History"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2462592

There are numerous other facts available about the history of various types of US torture-which are crimes. It isn't just "controlled drowning".
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. kick
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. The U.S. Congress is considering banning the practice?
It is already banned. Bush violated the law.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Why are we letting the "CRAZIES" run this Nation? Isn't it OBVIOUS? The GOP is off their ROCKERS
Like the Levites of Old..the GOP today is a small group who control enough followers to actually sneak into POWER.

We have seen this from Day 1....

But...even they...can go overBOARD with WATER.....one of natures simpliest of compounds...that it plays apart of the Mighty GOP's DownFALL....

Still they wish to control and will not let it go so readily without a great fight....
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-09-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R n/t
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. BOTH BUSHes "Torture should be prosecuted under the principle of 'universal jurisdiction' "
It is entirely possible that both President Bushes could be prosecuted for waterboarding!

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

This is the current case of a jurisdiction taking legal action to hold Plan Condor conspirators to account, and may also lead to Bush, et. al.

Italy: Judge issues 140 arrest warrants in "Plan Condor" case. Bush NOT YET indicted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2528536&mesg_id=2528536
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-10-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. and i agree with the UN
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. AMERICANS WANT NO MORE LIES-NO MORE TORTURE, NO MORE BFEE
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. God- DAMN IT,...water-boarding IS TORTURE,..GOD DAMN TORTURE!!!
Christ,...I still can NOT believe there is any freakin' negotiation on whether TORTURE IS TORTURE!!!!

IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!!!!
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