Should your child be forced to learn Spanish in elementary school?

[Blue_Roses]

Student, Mother Protest Mandatory Spanish Class


KXAS-TV
updated 7:23 a.m. CT, Thurs., Feb. 7, 2008


GRAPEVINE, Texas - A mother in the Grapevine-Colleyville school district said she is refusing to let her daughter attend mandatory Spanish class because she doesn't think her daughter should be forced to learn the language. "They said sorry you're gonna have to learn Spanish," said Ashley Allison a fifth-grader at Grapevine-Colleyville's Timberline Elementary School. "I was just stunned.

Leigh Allison, Ashley's mother, said she supports her daughter's boycott of Spanish and initially kept her out of school when that class was in session.

Now the 11-year-old student spends that hour in the library teaching herself French.

In a written statement, the school district said Spanish has been taught at the elementary level for 15 years and will continue to be taught.

more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23039327/

[fenriswolf]

1. yeah I think forcing children to learn a second languege

to deal with a social and political problem is BS. If its for educational purposes the children should have a choice.

[Iris]

5. why? They still get the same benefits no matter why they were required to take the class.

[fenriswolf]

16. if they are going to force elementary students to learn a new languege

it should be a choice. Why force them to learn spanish? I decided to learn italian in high school instead of spanish. Why don't they have a choice? why mandatory spanish?

[Iris]

21. funding, maybe?

I worked for a school district that could only afford to offer one foreign language class. It was Spanish. I would think it would be a matter of practicality to teach Spanish in Texas - easier to find teachers, lots of changes to practice. Getting a foreign language in elementary school is a relatively new opportunity all across the country.

[roody]

81. Because it is indispensable in Texas?

[Ilsa]

125. Almost. There are some products I get at the store that have the

name in spanish first and largest, with english second and smaller. And these are US-made foods. YEah, I'm in south Texas. Never took a class, but have learned a few nouns along the way. Good stuff, like Bush is a pendejo. I don't know syntax, though.

[EFerrari]

148. Resources. I was forced to take Spanish in middle school

when mine was better than the teacher's. There was no other choice. But, whatever, it wasn't a complete waste of time. I did manage to learn something.

[pingzing58]

250. And with how many Italians do you speak the language on a daily basis? Any channels on T.V.?

[shraby]

28. Sweden and other European countries

have required English in their schools for a long time. In fact it's much easier for a child to learn a second language in the lower grades than it is for them as they get older.

[dysfunctional press]

34. europe is also a much different situation than the u.s.

if each state in the u.s. had it's own language, most americans would be polyglots as well.

[Kitty Herder]

93. Our provincialism and arrogance don't do us any favors. Being able

to communicate with people from different cultures would prevent a lot of misunderstanding. We live in a global society now, whether we like it or not. Some nations realized this was happening before we did and prepared for it. I knew a German woman who learned five languages before she graduated from high school.

Spanish is particularly important to Americans. We encounter Spanish speakers everyday. I wish I had learned Spanish as a child.

If more of us spoke Spanish, it would prevent some of the hatred of immigrants that is so prevalent.

[defendandprotect]

221. America is changing --- we have many Spanish among us --- and others ---

Europeans are usually multi-lingual ---

America a Tower of Babel? Bad idea!

Think we should move on with language . . .

[dysfunctional press]

234. europeans are multi-lingual mostly due to geography.

australians aren't, new zealanders aren't(to my knowledge- i could be mistaken), canadians mostly aren't- especially the farther you get away from quebec.
and in most other countries where people are bilingual- it's usually english as the second language, and mostly for economic reasons.

[Zywiec]

I didn't know a lot of people from Spain were moving here

Who knew?

:shrug:

[treestar]

239. Exactly. I bet this woman doesn't have a problem with that

This is choosing to be ignorant.

The fetish about English-only is silly anyway. People all over the world learn English! It's not as if it were an endangered language.

Typical of conservatives. They see a threat in everything that does not confirm the dominance of each of their preferences. Yet English is dominant on this planet!

[GrpCaptMandrake]

249. In point of fact,

there are more English speakers in China than in all of the U.S. Then there's India, where they speak a better version of the Queen's English than probably ANYONE in Texas.

[surfermaw]

106. My granddaughter took spanish through elem. school and is now in one of the N.C Universities

double majoring in Psy. and Spanish, she always got the spanish award and really like taking Spanish, she is thinking about Latin also a couple of courses.

[fenriswolf]

122. awsome

what if I as a third grader wanted to learn french instead of spanish.

[Telly Savalas]

163. Ideally that would be an option also.

But presently our society feels that pissing away money to build WMDs and occupy Iraq is more important than educating our kids, so our schools are working with limited resources.

[Scout]

245. once you've learned the spanish, then study french and it will be easier n/t

[supernova]

147. Except that the earlier you start the easier it is

to learn a new language.

Your brain and mouth are much more likely to pick up an authentic accent in the 2nd language if you start in elementary school, at least if not simply grow up bilingually.

[ulysses]

2. should a child be forced to learn math in elementary school?

[Sock Puppet]

4. Very well said

:thumbsup:

[Iris]

3. hmmm. Should your child be forced to learn ALGEBRA?

What is it with these people? Since when is learning a foreign language in school something new?

[yawnmaster]

48. illogical arguments

The case for Spanish should be argued on its own merits not as a comparison to something else, such as Algebra.
Otherwise, I may as well say, "Why shouldn't BBQing be a forced subject? They are forced to learn Algebra, aren't they?"
(BBQ is an important skill, btw, but perhaps not until middle school)

[Iris]

203. It's not illogical. There are certain elements of a classical education. Mathematics and foreign

languages are both such elements.

[NutmegYankee]

226. There are other languages that could be taught. n/t

[gateley]

6. I think our children should be required to take a foreign language of their

choosing. NOT be forced to learn Spanish.

I regret not having taken a foreign language during lo, my many long years in school. I think being bi- or multi- lingual broadens one's horizons.

[SharonAnn]

17. If they only have Spanish teachers, then that's the foreign language taught.

I couldn't learn German in High School, because there was no teacher for it. Nor Russian, Italian Portugese, Chinese, Japanese, etc.

So I studied Latin for 2 years and Spanish for 2 years. This was 1959-1963. In the middle of Iowa.

[gateley]

149. I bet that Latin will come in handy if you go to Latin America! (wasn't it

Quale who said something like that?)

Actually, I learned a bit of Latin during my 12 years of Catholic school, and it helps me to figure out the meaning of words sometimes.

Good point about the resources. The candidates are promising more resources for schools, so hopefully they'll be able to deliver.

[Orangepeel]

63. It takes resources to offer classes

They can't offer everything. Spanish makes the most sense

[gateley]

150. Yep, you guys are absolutely right. I'm dense at times. nt

[VP505]

7. NO!

:crazy:

[Caoimhe]

8. How racism passes from generation to generation...

how stupid. Look, teaching the kid spanish is a POSITIVE thing. This woman wants her child to remain ignorant because of her own racial intolerance. How sad. The kid is gonna encounter a whole lot of French people in Texas... right?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. Yes, especially in Kindergarten and First grades...

It's been proven that the earlier a child learns a second language, the easier time they have learning in the future.
If I had managed to learn Spanish in HS, I would have a job right now (all warehouse management jobs seem to require that lately).

We should probably make them learn French too, so in the near future when they have to escape to Canada to find a decent job they will be able to communicate.

[fortyfeetunder]

214. Other bennies

Spanish and French have similar language origins. Once a child can master one language, they can pick up other languages later.

The same skills used in learning foreign language are also useful in mathematics, music, and the sciences!
---------------------------------
I will agree with the posters that said if resources at the school were limited, they could only offer one language.

[napi21]

10. I would have been happy if spanish was one of the classes

when my kids were very young. It's easier for them to learn a foreign language when they are young, and it would a big asset when they got older. Many foreign countries teach English as a mandatory second language, and I've always wondered why the US never did.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. The eleven year old's going to teach herself french?

That's funny.

[displacedtexan]

191. Yeah, that's gonna work out well!

What a crock!

As a long-time French and German teacher, I have to feel sorry for that child:

Her mother's ignorance probably knows no bounds.

[blondeatlast]

12. In other countries, other languages are routinely taught in kindergarten up.

Once a child reaches second grade, their capacity to learn another language is severely handicapped.

Yes--I happen to applaud this idea very much. Should my child be forced to study English--his native language? Of course he should.

[tularetom]

13. If she wants to prosper in Texas 25 years from now, she'd better learn it

You can bitch and moan about border fences and illegal immigrants but nothing is going to change. Hispanic birth rates are way higher than non Hispanics, more and more immigrants will find their way into the US and we will have more and more businesses and services that cater to Hispanics. That's where the opportunities will be in the future and the ability to speak Spanish will be a business asset.

[TomInTib]

20. The same could very well be said for most of the States in the Union.nt

[Saphire]

110. Are you kidding?? You need spanish to prosper here now.

[shaniqua6392]

14. I would not like that at all.

My children have had options on foreign language education. They have taken Spanish, German and Japanese. It should be optional though. Why are they making Spanish and not some other language mandatory in Texas? Hmmmm. According to some of the complaints from educators in the South, they should be putting more of an effort to get the Spanish speaking children to speak English.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Because Spanish is more practical?

Because Spanish is the country's second language?

It's like Canadian school children learning French. It just makes sense.

[Kazak]

31. Particularly in Texas. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Just a guess: not enough resources to offer options.

Many schools would be thrilled to have enough money to offer choices for every subject area, most schools are struggling to offer any choices at all.

[Fleshdancer]

42. Not all school districts have the resources to offer a variety of languages.

If you can only choose 1 foreign language and you are in Texas, why not choose Spanish?

[XemaSab]

100. Especially since you could make the argument that Spanish in Texas

isn't "foreign" at all. :)

[Chovexani]

139. Good luck finding German and Japanese teachers in Texas

When schools have limited resources to put into foreign language education, you go with a foreign language that makes the most sense. If we were talking NY or LA, Japanese or German would make sense (banking business, etc) but in Texas? Who are you more likely to run into, someone speaking Japanese or Spanish?

Plus they can get creative with the instruction, taking them to local cultural events and things like that on field trips. We did stuff like that all the time in my Spanish classes growing up in Brooklyn.

Why do some people have such a problem with Spanish being the mandatory foreign language course? Hmmmmm. :eyes:

[Flying Dream Blues]

247. They have options at the middle school and high school level,

but not in elementary school, simply because of the numbers not allowing for more than one or two teachers. If you offered French, German or even Latin there would not be enough takers to justify a whole teacher, so Spanish is it at that level. At at least some middle schools (just familiar w/ my area) French and Latin are offered, and at the HS level, there are usually many choices, including French, German, Spanish, Latin. Some schools with the demand to justify it offer Japanese and Chinese, and back in the day, Russian.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. LOL! What if a parent objected to Science?

Or Social Studies? Or Math?

[ulysses]

29. education a la carte!

"I think I'd like the social studies entree - only half, I'm on a diet - with a side of underwater basket weaving."

It's the perfect consumer-driven business model for schools!

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. And we can just write IEPs for everyone!

I can see it now.

"Billy, your mom opted you out of Math, so go on down to the library and find a book to keep you busy."

"Suzie, it's time for Science and you are taking basket weaving instead."

"Put that Spanish book away! It's not in your program!"

:rofl:

[ulysses]

46. can you imagine the goals and objectives? the placement options?

"Self-taught in the library, 1/2 segment per day."

Hell, can you imagine the parents of every child having to attend annual reviews???

:D

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. We would have to hire someone to handle all the conferences

Hey, would self-taught be a new placement option? :rofl:

[Kitty Herder]

88. Some parents DO object to science.

They object to their children learning about evolution. They prefer that their kids be ignorant. This isn't much different. The parents in this case are also choosing ignorance over knowledge for ideological reasons.

[madeline_con]

134. Creationists and assorted fundies do. n/t

[Chovexani]

140. They already are

No wonder we're at the bottom of the educational barrel for industrialized nations.

How about the racist science-hating pigfucking fundies get their own schools, and leave other people's children alone?

[timtom]

190. What an ugly, ugly comment.

[Chovexani]

215. I love you too, precious.

:loveya:

[JerseygirlCT]

230. Exactly. nt

[varkam]

18. I guess I don't see what the big deal is.

Most schools have a certain amount of their classes prescribed to the students. IOW, the students already do not have a choice in what classes they do or do not take in many instances. It isn't exactly unusual for a school to design a cirriculum for students.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Is she forced to learn math?

Forced to learn history?

Are the Allisons just a wee bit bigoted?

[yawnmaster]

41. arguing logical falacies

arguing that a child should be forced to learn X because they are forced to learn Y is not logical.

It doesn't follow. It makes no case for X on its own terms.

Should a child be forced to learn auto-mechanics? Why not?! They are forced to learn math!

Argue the case for X (in this case, Spanish) on its own merits.

[ulysses]

44. should a child be forced to learn any foreign language in elementary school?

[yawnmaster]

53. now we are getting somewhere

I like this direction better than the comparative question of, "Why shouldn't they have to learn Spanish? After all, they have to learn Math!"
The decision should lay first with the community (the school board), which the parents elect, and where the parents can make their views known, pro or con.

[ulysses]

I'm glad you like the direction better,

but how would you answer the question?

[yawnmaster]

70. my opinion

I don't live in that area, but I do believe that knowledge of Spanish will be valuable, and I also believe that learning a second or more languages is important.
If I made the rules, I would make learning a second language mandatory. If a school can only afford one choice, then there should be a way for a student to prove equivalent ability in a second language learned through an outside source. If they can't, then take the language offered at the school.

For instance, a Chinese family might want their child to learn Mandarin as a second language in school, instead of what the school offers. This, can be argued, will also be very important later in life. A way for this learning path should be left open. The community makes a second language mandatory and offers one.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Red Herring

:)

[yawnmaster]

57. but not always intentionally, I believe

I think the red herring is not always done on purpose (especially in this case).
In this case, I believe it is a shorthand way of saying that Spanish has virtues such as other forced classes.
But, one can see why doing this is week. I have to make the assumption that that is what they mean; I give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'd rather go down the road of arguing actual benefits; we can all learn from that type of debate.
We don't learn much from red herrings, straw men, ad hominims, and non-sequiturs, except perhaps a bit of insight to the style of the person arguing.

[XemaSab]

101. I'd love to have taken auto mecahnics; it's very practical and would save a lot of money.

Similarly, Spanish is very practical. Much more so than French, German, or some other country a child might spend a few weeks out of their LIFE in.

[yawnmaster]

113. auto-mechanics and such

I think there is much discussion that can be made for the lack of trade skills and education have been lacking and in some cases looked down upon.
But I'm not hijacking.

[XemaSab]

116. No worries...

I think if we do nothing else in High School, we should teach kids practical living skills, including Spanish, Auto Shop, basic Homemaking, home budgeting, etc.

[yawnmaster]

118. okay...a small deviation from the subject...

I think, especially at the high school level, we can do a better job, in general, of exposing our kids to the jobs and careers that are out there. By "in general" I mean that there are probably some schools that do a good job, but I suspect most don't. I'm talking beyond just having a career center. Teach trades. How do we know if a student is good with using their hands (keep a clean mind). We can tell if they are good in Math or science, but their are many if not most careers and jobs out there that are not Math or Science oriented.

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. No, Uly is actually making a good point

State standards and district curriculum determine what is taught. Parents don't get to choose. If they want a voice, they can volunteer to serve on curriculum committees. But interestingly enough, I have been on numerous curriculum committees but can't remember any parents serving on any. :)

[yawnmaster]

115. we are in agreement

When I say community, I don't necessarily mean that the parents choose directly. As I've said in other subthreads here, the community voice is as you say, the district, up to the state, and in some cases the federal level. Parents do have their voice, one way being your example. They can run for school boards, support someone who supports their views, and serve on committees, as in your example above.

[Warren Stupidity]

159. I'm sorry but this child is not being 'forced to learn spanish'

in isolation from other mandatory curriculum requirements. It is not the case that agents of the state showed up at her door and announced that she must now learn Spanish. The school has a foreign language requirement, as it has a math requirement, an english requirement, a history requirement, etc. The school appears to offer exactly one language choice for that foreign language requirement. There is no logical fallacy here. This requirement is one of many and is not in any significant respect different than the other requirements.

[Iris]

205. It's so much easier than that. There are certain elements in a classical education.

Mathematics AND foreign language are 2 of them.

[fight4my3sons]

23. My son takes French.

He's in Kindergarten. It's considered a "special" like Art, Music, and P.E. He loves it.

[Blue_Roses]

25. that's what this Spanish class is...in fact, they

have a fiesta party where they all bring a Spanish or Mexican dish. (my daughter goes to this school and I had to cook the refried beans and rice:)

The teacher makes it fun.

[ChazII]

189. I teach 3rd grade and my

school is applying for International Baccalaureate PYP --IB for the elementary set. We will be offering Spanish but it will be treated like a special area just as you son's school.

edited for spelling

[candice]

26. Learning foreign languages very early is a big advantage....

[Karenina]

137. And there is NO DOWN SIDE to it.

Amis are so STOOPID on this topic that it defies belief.

[JerseygirlCT]

231. Huge. Kids that age are ready to learn, primed for it

in ways older kids and adults rarely are.

Teach them then, and they absorb it much more easily.

Our national reluctance to learn new languages is going to severely hamper us in an increasingly global world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Any second language benefits the child in the long run

ONLY in the US is this an issue. Canada, all kids learn English and French. Europe they learn a multitude of languages and it is not rare for folks to speak competently three languages. Even our neighbors south of the border require a second language.

Why is this an issue here I will never understand. but Americans are proud of their collective ignorance

[shanti]

68. thank you!

:thumbsup:

[Kazak]

30. In as much as they are forced to attend any other class, yes.

:shrug:

[yawnmaster]

43. why?

A logical argument needs a why. Just because other courses are forced does not mean another should be.
Why should Spanish be a forced subject, as much as Math or spelling, for instance?

[ulysses]

47. why should any class be a forced subject?

[yawnmaster]

49. a very good question

That is a very good question, and each subject should be judged on its merits, and by the community.
I'm not arguing for or against Spanish, only that we make our arguments powerful either way.
Saying we should force Spanish because we force Math, is a very weak argument; it says nothing about the virtue of Spanish.

[Blue_Roses]

51. well said

:thumbsup:

[ulysses]

52. the community should choose?

:eyes: See my "a la carte" post upthread.

[Blue_Roses]

55. I think I see

the point. Bottom line, make the argument FOR or AGAINST, by what works and what doesn't. My child is in this program and an argument FOR it is not only are they learning a necessary language in a state that is highly Hispanic, but they are learning it in a fun way.

I had to take Spanish in college--during the summer. It was too quick and I couldn't retain a thing. I wish I had taken more since I NOW live in a state that uses Spanish frequently in many circles.

I think the "mandatory" thing is what is tripping some up--and I can understand that--however, from this lady it just sounds like pure bigotry.

[ulysses]

56. that's why some of us are bringing up the mandatory math thing.

Lots of things in school are mandatory. In a changing world, why shouldn't Spanish be?

Unless one has a problem with Spanish itself. I'm trying to put this nicely for our correspondent here. :)

[Blue_Roses]

65. Math...

I hated Math. That is one subject I wished I wouldn't have had to take, but thank-goodness...I can now balance my checkbook;)

On a serious note, I always had trouble with Math and even in college I struggled. My roommate was a Math major and even got her master's in Math::boring: She always tried to explain things to me--on HER level and finally I just did what I could to get through. Now my daughter is struggling the same way I did and I can explain it to her on MY level which is HER level too:) Guess it all comes back to ya somehow...

Okay, sorry, off subject here...

Back to Spanish class:)

[yawnmaster]

67. just because one thing is doesn't mean the other is okay

Just because some things are mandatory doesn't mean it is ok for other things to be mandatory.
It should only be mandatory if there is a valid reason.
I am definitely against anything mandatory -- without a valid reason.

(my opinion of this specific case can be seen upthread - in a minute)

[yawnmaster]

64. yes the community

The community should choose the school's curriculum.
The community has their voice through the school board (the local community), and the state legislature (for state-wide standards), for instance.
The argument for Spanish, for instance, I believe is more powerful in the West, South, and Southwest, but communities elsewhere, may not see the advantages gained is worth the funding.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

72. Yeah, let the community decide if "evolution" or "gravity" exists.

Or if the liberal suppression of numbers via the letter X in algebra should persist.

:eyes:

[yawnmaster]

82. We are not talking about if something exists or not

We are talking about whether a subject should be mandatory.
Your argument is a logical fallacy.
So I will take your argument to say "let the community decide if evolution or gravity is taught".

And I say, yes, that is correct, the community, whether it be local (the school board), or statewide (the state legislature) should decide what is taught.
If the community decides that something should not be taught, however silly it appears to those outside the community, then it should not be taught (or should be taught if they decide it should be).
You have to take "community" in context. It can be small or large. The entire nation is a type of community. Different decision need to made at different levels. Those outside the community should not make mandatory those things inside the community.
"Community" needs to be defined as needed for the issue resolution.
In this case, I believe the community should be at the school board level. Your evolution and gravity examples should probably be at the state level.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. Really?

So you think it should be OK for a state to remove mandatory Evolution education if the majority of the state, i.e. the community, says so?

[yawnmaster]

94. yes

Unless the larger community (the nation) feels that the sub-community's (the state's) decision will affect the Union adversely, to the point where it has to override that decision.
In this particular example, if you exclude the religious overtones (for the sake of argument lets say you can), then removing mandatory evolution from a state's curriculum is not going to cause any major affect on the Nation as a whole. Plus, it wouldn't happen at the university level. Its too important of a concept and any science curriculum would require it to be competitive with other universities, so it would be taught.

Of course, you can't remove religion from the evolution argument, because that is really what it is all about, some schools wanting to teach creationism.

Most people won't use evolution in their day to day lives, unless they are involved in science.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

151. Fantastic. So some community can decide they don't want to teach

math, science, whatever. And then what happens when the kids from these communities decide they want to go to college? They do poorly the entrance exams and then what?

They expect you to know evolutionary principles when you get to college. You would be at a distinct disadvantage applying to any biology major with "creationism" as your background.

[ulysses]

89. same "local control" stuff as always.

Thought I smelled that.

[yawnmaster]

97. as always?

this is not an argument for "local control" as you put it.
It is an argument for control at the level where it is most logical.
Control should be as local as is possible, but that does not mean all control is local.
The higher you go up the "community" chain, the less that larger community knows about the smaller community.

[ulysses]

174. there's nothing new here.

Your answers regarding evolution just upthread make me suspect that your argument has little, in fact, to do with with the "forced" teaching of Spanish.

[knitter4democracy]

103. The community already decided in this case.

They've been offering it there for years with no complaint.

As for learning Spanish, just being exposed to the study of a foreign language helps students to better understand English, helps get higher test scores, and teaches critical thought. What's not to like?

[yawnmaster]

111. no argument there

My main point on this subject was to try to get logical arguments (the community subthread just evolved), not make arguments that we should teach X just because we teach Y.

Now if we were arguing why the mother is doing this (not whether Spanish should be taught), then I think the argument "Math is mandatory, so why not Spanish" has some validity. And that is because of this quote from the mother:
"I was just stunned because I couldn't believe they'd actually make me do something like that."

The question now is "why didn't you believe it?" as there is precedent of mandatory courses, Math, English, History, etc..

[knitter4democracy]

119. Here in Michigan, two years of a foreign lang. is now mandatory in h.s.

That's for everyone, too, not just the college-bound students. So, it makes sense to start foreign language study in elementary, just as they're now introducing algebraic concepts in early elementary and grammar and scientific study. The mom is remembering how it was for her, not looking at what it's like for her daughter now and a few years from now.

[Barack_America]

32. Blech. I hate seeing children used to perpetuate their parents racism...

...as the mother is obviously doing here.

I guess I can expect to see her presented as a "hero of America" by Dobbs though.

Should children be force to learn Spanish? Probably not. But if you're living in the SW, it would certainly be advantageous for your child to have a cursory knowledge of Spanish.

One of the worse decisions I ever made in my life was to study French instead of Spanish.

[mattfromnossa]

59. I agree.

Learning spanish would be a good thing. But I don't think it should be forced upon someone who isn't interested.

[devilgrrl]

33. Yes.

What's wrong with knowing a second language?

[dysfunctional press]

35. no.

nt

[Uncle Sinister]

36. the mother is a moron. does she think learning Spanish will HURT her daughter??

I'm incredibly grateful my parents "forced" me to take 3 yrs of Spanish (and 2 of Latin)

Doesn't make me fluent by a long shot, but at least I can puzzle my way through most of La Opinion.

Every child should be "forced" to learn the most prevalent 2nd language in their region, just like they should be "forced" to learn basic math and science.

F*ck the fluff and the feel good. Math, Science, Language, Arts & Literature, Citizenship, History...They still need to form the basis of an education.

[Fleshdancer]

37. I like the idea of elementary kids learning a second language

Most American students start learning foreign languages at an age when it's not as easy for them to absorb it.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. My daughter started taking spanish in public school in first grade

She is fluent now at the age of 21 and due to her accelerated program entered college with her language hours already behind her. I don't see this as anything other than an advantage for her in life. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

61. Mine too!

She was in an immersion program and half of all her school work was done en Espaniol... duh.. I probably got that wrong:)

When it came time for college, she passed her Spanish AP with ease! And she was told by the AP examiner that she sounded like a native speaker! We were both very proud that day:) And she uses Spanish a lot...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

98. Excellent on your daughter!

It's useful and it opens their minds for further learning. Parents are supposed to be in the business of nurturing the potential of the child they were gifted with. Not limiting their potential and filling them with hatred and bigotry.

I want my daughter to fill her head with as much knowledge as possible throughout her lifetime. What she chooses to do with it is up to her, of course. However, showing our children how to grab life with both hands and mold it into what they desire begins with what we encourage them to learn while they're young.

[goodgd_yall]

225. This "issue" sounds so backwards to this Californian

When I was in elementary school, Spanish lessons began in 4th grade. No one objectedl. Back then there wasn't considered to be an "agenda" to it; we knew other countries were ahead of us in acquiring foreign language skills. It was a recognition that having a second language was a good ability. I wish I was fluent in Spanish now. (Unfortunately, I had to change schools and the one I moved to didn't unclude Spanish. And then I took French in Junior High).

I still keep plugging away every so often to try to maintain a basic skill level in Spanish by taking a another class.

[Orsino]

39. Not learn Spanish? In Texas?

Might as well not teach them English, either--but that would play well with the bigots.

[Warpy]

45. Damn, ignorant and proud uvvit, aint she?

One semester of a foreign language was required at my high school. I started in junior high and ended up with a year of Latin, a semester of Greek, and six years of French. I wish I'd been smart enough to take a couple of years of Spanish along with them. Languages are the one thing that have come in most handy of all I took away from high school; math is a close second (another language if you think about it).

This incredibly stupid woman should be grateful her daughter has this opportunity. I would imagine this incredibly stupid woman is just afraid her daughter will start speaking Spanish when she's talking to her friends and doesn't want Mom in on the conversation. Or maybe Mom is a bigoted asshole. Whatever the reason, the daughter shouldn't be deprived of this opportunity.

I'd like to see Spanish taught side by side with English from kindergarten on, but that is just me. I'd love to see kids fluent in 2 languages by the time they got offered a third in high school. Learning that second language makes all subsequent languages much, much easier.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. The American Association of Teachers of Spanish used to have a T shirt that

showed a map of the Western Hemisphere and was captioned: "We are not alone; learn Spanish."

It would be a great advantage for kids to learn whatever was the major second language in their area. In much of the country, that would be Spanish, but it might be French in Maine and Chinese or Korean in parts of California.

One of the few things that the former South African government did right (perhaps the only thing) was to handle the 40-60 split in the white population between English speakers and Afrikaans speakers by requiring every white child to learn both. The attempt to impose this rule on black students was one of the causes of the Soweto uprisings of the 1970s, because English was already foreign for most of them, and they saw Afrikaans as the language of the designers of the hated apartheid system.

But the principle is sound. If you have a large linguistic minority, require everyone to learn both the minority and majority languages.

[Warpy]

158. I live in a state where non Hispanic Europeans are another minority

and I can't understand for the life of me why they don't do it here.

Most Hispano kids speak Spanish at home but pick up enough English from cartoons on TV to get by in the first grade and the schools take over from there. Non Hispanic kids have little opportunity to learn Spanish unless their parents make an effort to have them spend time with Hispanic kids and watch Spanish TV.

This could easily be the test state for bilingualism from the first grade on. They already do it in Pueblo schools, teaching English along side the Pueblo languages.

That second language should be taught early. It makes subsequent languages much easier.

[Swamp Rat]

54. Absolutely, si.

Learning a second language is as important as learning math and English, especially at that age.

For Texans, knowing Spanish is a must.

If Leigh Allison wants her child to be monolingual, then she should home-school her, and perhaps prepare her for a minimum wage career.

[Blue_Roses]

60. Growing up in Louisiana

I had to learn Cajun as my second language:D

[NOLALady]

71. For some Cajuns and Creoles,

English is a second language.

[Blue_Roses]

133. true

:D

...good times...

[Swamp Rat]

104. Oui

y español ;)

[JuniperLea]

58. Learning a second language is very good for children

When you learn a second language, it not only teaches you another language, but it teaches you how to learn on another level. Once you've learned a second language, the third, fourth and fifth languages come much more easily because your brain can process language far better by that time.

I never understood why people fight to have their children educated, then fight tooth and nail because their kid is being "forced" to learn something... or the best one I've seen here on DU... their kid was forced to do "too much homework".

Hey, if you don't want your child to have a competitive edge, if you don't want a college education to come easier for your child, then bitch away. If you do want these things for your child, then quitcherbitchen!!

[UpInArms]

62. reminds me of a joke

Q: What do you call someone that speaks two languages?

A: Bilingual

Q: What do you call someone that speaks three languages?

A: Trilingual

Q: What do you call someone who only speaks one language?

A: American

[alarimer]

66. Should they be forced to learn math?

How about reading? Or science?

Spanish in elementary school is a great idea. It is easier for younger kids to learn it and they will just have a head start later on.

Ms Allison is a typical ignorant American bigot. My fellow citizens never fail to disappoint me in their collective stupidity. We get the government we deserve.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

69. Learning a language at a young age has more value than knowledge of the language itself

You learn how to think in bilingual terms. I absolutely think children should learn another language at a young age. The younger the better. If the only course available is Spanish, then they should take that. When they get to High school or college where there are more resources, then they will have an easier time adjusting to Latin, French, Italian, or even non-romance languages.

[KitSileya]

173. Not only that, language springs out of culture,

so they learn how other people think as well.

I have always believed that learning another language is important because:

a) it makes you better at your native language. It makes you more aware of how your own language sounds, is structured, and its vocabulary, among other things,

b) it makes you aware of your own culture in a different way. If a thing has not been thought, it has not been put into words. Language reflects culture and how people think. There's a reason why for example in Romance languages 99 girls and one boy is referred to with the masculine plural - it's because in Romance cultures boys were more important than girls. In Japanese, women speak a lot more politely than men, deflecting and softening - that was how their role was confined and bound.

c) it's very, very practical. Tho' a huge part of the world speaks English, many do not, especially in places where the educational system isn't of the best. In Southwest it absolutely makes sense to learn Spanish. Afterall, wasn't Spanish the first European language spoken in most of the Southern United States?


But hey, what do I know, I only teach English as a foreign language in high school (alongside Norwegian, and I have teaching credentials in Italian, and I had 5 years of French in jr.high and high school - and am currently trying to learn a bit of Japanese.)

[citizen snips]

73. No

School should focus more on math and science.

[NOLALady]

74. Personally,

I regret that my kids were not taught other languages in the younger grades. I think being multilingual has to be an asset.

[Holly_Hobby]

75. Learning Spanish was part of my 1st grade education in 1962

when there were no Latinos in my small farming town.

I learned to count to 25, colors, etc.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

197. I started it in fifth grade in a college town in Wisconsin, where

the Latino population was insignificant (a couple of families).

We moved away after that year, but I took it up again in high school. At this point, my knowledge is pretty basic, but when I lived in a small Oregon town that had lots of Latino farm workers, I found that it came in really handy, because people would stop me on the street or in stores and ask questions in Spanish.

Now, I don't look the least bit Latino (unless you think that I'm the descendant of the Germans who emigrated to northern Mexico), so I was puzzled about why I seemed to be Ms. Información Por Favor every time I went shopping. I mentioned this to an acquaintance who was a bilingual attorney, and she suggested that it was because I looked like someone who wouldn't bite a person's head off for not speaking English.

[Xenotime]

76. Yes. There's nothing wrong with this.

It's the parents who think they "know what's best" when they dont'

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. Fascinating.

Tell us more.

[JVS]

78. No. Children should be free to choose which second language they learn.

French, German, and Russian would be better choices as far as my experience has demonstrated.

[knitter4democracy]

105. And where would they get the teachers?

Foreign language teachers are already hard to find, especially in German and Russian. If a district can find someone to teach Russian, and there's desire amongst the students for that, they're going to put that person to work at the high school where the need is greatest.

If they can get a foreign language teacher to do elementary, it's often on a rotating basis amongst all of the elementary schools and only a day or so a week.

[JVS]

109. Actually teachers of German and Russian have a hard time finding jobs.

Maybe districts hiring them would help

[knitter4democracy]

117. They should come to Michigan, then.

It goes into effect next year that every single high school graduate needs two years of a foreign language, not just the college-prep track anymore. Districts are already starting to look at expanding their for. lang. depts and adding teachers.

[DawgHouse]

79. I wish this had been required when I was in elementary school.

It would be so helpful to me now since I live in a very bilingual society.

In this case, since it's been in the curriculum for 15 years, I do think the parent is wrong to let her daughter boycott the class. It's easier to learn when young and on a conversational level it can be very useful in the future.

[gollygee]

83. I wish my daughter's elementary school taught Spanish

I'm paying extra for classes through Community Ed.

[Kitty Herder]

84. oooh... Learning = Bad

I would love for my child to be bi-lingual. What's wrong with these people?

[lonestarnot]

86. Si' Bobbalouie. Sooooright.

[RamboLiberal]

87. I wish they had Spanish or another language taught

in early elementary school when I was a kid instead of trying to learn it in high school. IMHO early years are the best time to learn language.

[Iktomiwicasa]

90. A bit of irony

that almost none of you have ever bothered to learn my native language, or any other of the First Languages of this land. :)

[knitter4democracy]

108. I dabbled a bit in Dine when I did a month-long teaching rotation in college.

I got to teach in Chinle on the Navajo Nation Rez for a month to meet a requirement for my education license, and I loved every minute of it. When I tried to learn some Dine, it kicked my ass. That is one difficult language. Fascinating one, too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

202. At the University of Minnesota, you can take Ojibwe or Lakota

for your "foreign" language requirement.

I'm a language buff, so one of these days, I'd like to take one of them just for the experience.

[Book Lover]

237. Resources to do so,

and opportunity to speak, write, and read first nations languages are rare.

[leftofthedial]

91. no,. there is plenty of time later for that

they can learn spanish in the fry line at burger king

[ulysses]

92. someone let me know how this thread turns out.

My son has already learned how to count to ten in Spanish from his teacher at daycare, so I'm going to go learn some stuff from him. :D

[Zorra]

95. dupe delete

[Zorra]

96. Well, after all, Texas is now a full blown Mexican colony. And Spanish is the offical

language of Mexico.

Maybe they should move somewhere that English is the primary language.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

241. Texas used to be part of Mexico.

And Mexico was owned by Spain and France. And Texas was also a Republic from 1836 to 1845.

If you don't know Spanish in Texas, you are at a BIG disadvantage.

I've lived in Texas my whole life. I took 2 years of Spanish in junior high, which I loved, and 2 years of Latin in high school.

I'm not fluent yet in Spanish but I'm working on it. Damn useful to know. I could probably get a job if I was fluent.

All the Romance languages -- Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, and Romanian -- come from Latin.

So if the kid in Grapevine is "teaching herself" French, it's not that far off from Spanish. Sounds like racism to me on the part of the mother.

[knitter4democracy]

102. My kids are "being forced" to learn Spanish in elementary school.

I'm all for it. It's one of my foreign languages, and the reality is, the way it's being taught means they'll only know a bit and actually just learn English better. That way, if they do decide to go on and learn Spanish as their foreign language in high school (now required by the state for all high school students), they'll be a step ahead. If they decide to learn a different language than Spanish, they'll at least know how to learn a foreign language.

I think everyone should know at least one foreign language.

[XemaSab]

114. Mom's a bigot

Spanish is SO HANDY, at least in California, and I wish I was fluent, but I'm basically monolingual. :(

I think Spanish is WAY more practical than half the nonsense they make you learn in school.

[LWolf]

120. Should children be "forced" to learn anything?

:eyes:

That's not an attitude conducive to learning much of anything.

All learning is valuable, and ought to be treated that way.

Do I think all U.S. children should learn a second language? Absolutely yes. The more educated our general population is, the better, and language makes the world go round. The "english only" bias keeps citizens insulated from interacting with the rest of the world.

Do I care what language it is that they learn? No. I don't think it HAS to be Spanish. However, adding a 2nd language class to the day and to the school is costly enough. Adding several languages to an elementary school would mean adding several teachers that spoke those languages, which isn't reasonable when we can't even fund decent physical plants or class sizes.

Spanish is the logical choice when it is the most common 2nd language spoken in that community.

I'm fine with a parent wanting a child to learn a different language; in this case, she ought to get outside lessons to teach her child French as a 3rd language.

[Joe Fields]

121. Yes.

[ruiner4u]

123. As long as they teach basic english first...

I do not have a problem. However, I do hope the school board offers a broader language selection in later grades.

[ChazII]

124. It makes sense to have the foreign language

that is the most spoken in the state. My school will be including Spanish as part of our curriculum next fall. As we are in the southwest, Spanish makes the most sense. Several states offer Chinese as part of their curriculum according to one of my recent NEA Insider.

[high density]

126. I wish I had been forced to learn a second language

It can't hurt anything and I think it's a lot easier to do when you're young.

[U4ikLefty]

127. Do we force all immigrants to learn English?

[Ilsa]

128. Only if they want to become citizens, IIRC. nt

[ruiner4u]

129. Forcing someone to learn and to use are two different things.

[Ilsa]

130. Why not Latin instead of Spanish?

Wouldn't that be helpful for developing as a base for other foreign languages and vocabulary in general?

[knitter4democracy]

142. There's some merit to this.

Latin's only a base for four languages, though, and English has far more in common with German than with Latin. Still, it helps test scores. Problem is, there aren't enough Latin teachers out there.

[Book Lover]

153. More than just four

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages

[nemo137]

166. Every spring here at the University of Illinois,

they bribe every student in the Latin program with pizza and pop (basically, a free lunch, or at least better than a meal of ramen and water) and tell us how great teaching Latin is. And, really, it's a great language. It's forced me to think about how I used English, and made me think about the French I took, but it's a hard damn language. There'd be more Latin teachers out there if I thought I could seduce America Ferrara in Latin, rather than the two more commonly spoken languages we have.

[Ilsa]

209. Husband's cousin majored in latin, but is selling insurance because

she couldn't find a job.

[knitter4democracy]

216. I taught with Latin teachers.

Many college prep schools still offer it. It looks good on a college app and leads to higher SAT and ACT scores.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. Because Latin is a dead language (unless you go into the legal field or the medical field)

but in general it is a dead language. And it would serve as a base more for Italian than Spanish

Now the medical field, absolutely... a lot of the technical terms ARE Latin based and the same goes for the legal field.

My favorite example (from the law) cui bono? Who benefits?

[Iris]

207. a lot of words in general are Latin based

And learning Latin helps you think. It's not all about speaking or writing the language -it's about analyzing and deconstructing something as well.

[Ilsa]

210. The local Catholic school still teaches latin.

And we want more people in the medical field, including nurses, respiratory therapists, physical therapists, etc.

Music also uses alot of italian, latin-based terms.

[knitter4democracy]

217. The Catholic schools I taught in offered Latin.

Several of our students would get perfect or near-perfect scores on the National Latin Exam every year, too.

[Scout]

244. yes, you are correct. get a good grasp of basic Latin first, then

proceed to the language of your choice.

[MasonJar]

131. Language in lower school is totally significant because it is much harder to

reopen the door to that particular avenue later. It is of great educational value to children. Should children and parents be able to cancel out curriculum? NO!!!!!!

[AZBlue]

132. I think all school children should speak at least one other language.

I don't think that language should be chosen for them. Sure, you can't teach all languages, but choose the top 3 or 4 to offer.

[NutmegYankee]

135. I think many people are missing the point here.

The daughter should have a choice of what foreign language to learn. The fact that it is only Spanish is wrong. I myself learned German.

[knitter4democracy]

141. Not enough resources.

Elementary schools cannot offer every single foreign language out there that kids want to learn. It's not like they spend massive curriculum time on it, anyway (at least, not in my kids' school). One day a week they get Spanish. That's not enough to really learn the language, but it is enough to be exposed to the fact that there is more than English out there and to help them learn English better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. south of the border... I only had one choice, English

[NutmegYankee]

228. Hence why I love America.

Freedom. We don't have to be like other countries, because that's why our ancestors left them.

[RB TexLa]

156. Spanish is not a foreign language in Texas. At least no more foreign than English.

[NutmegYankee]

229. That reinforces the view that Mexicans refuse to learn english.

And will just cause even more resistance. When I was in school, the prevailing view was that only the trouble makers took Spanish for their eventual criminal run south of the border. The good students learned German, French, or Latin.

Protest all you want, but that is what you're up against.

[ulysses]

232. !

When I was in school, the prevailing view was that only the trouble makers took Spanish for their eventual criminal run south of the border. The good students learned German, French, or Latin.

I suppose that we're all exposed to stupid prevailing views in our childhoods, but damn - I feel the need to apologize to your childhood and I wasn't even there.

[NutmegYankee]

233. The prevailing part is the tragic fact. n/t

[MissB]

252. Even our affluent school district can only offer Spanish.

Small school, but foreign language must be offered. Spanish is the choice. We can't afford another language teacher for the grade/middle school. We'd have to dump one of the other teachers - like art, music, librarian, counselor, PE.

In high school, they can take a different language. Through 8th grade, they're stuck with Spanish.

[ReformedChris]

136. Parent's an idiot and she can donate the money to the district

to pay for certified teachers that can teach her precious little daughter French, Italian, or Latin. This demand for ala carte education makes me sick. It makes me wonder what other subjects her mom would like to eliminate her daughter from being "Forced" to learn, such as MLK, FDR, or Rosa Parks. Mommy probably has a giant Reagan mural in the living room and a fading Bush Cheney 2004 bumper sticker on her broken down SUV.

[seabeyond]

138. i am disappointed my children werent given the opportunity

when i was young they were talking about implementing it in elemtentary and though i was too old for it, was glad my children would have it. they are just in elemtentary or just out and they didnt have it there.

[catzies]

143. I was and I thought it was great. Learned to love the language, culture & food

In Miami in the 1970s this native Floridian kid had to take it in public school. The Cuban kids had ESL and we had Spanish class. Grew up loving Cuban music, food, culture, and the language. Hope to go there someday soon, especially after seeing Sicko.

[L. Coyote]

146. If I lived in some backwoods Redneck swamp, I wouln't let my kids learn Moranic!

[Hekate]

152. Is the poor thing being forced to learn to spell and do long division as well? Poor, poor child. nt

[JBoy]

154. The answer is YES - for several reasons:

1. The (elected) school board decided this should be so. Allowing anyone to opt out should be determined by the board.
2. The "learning" of a second language is itself an important skill, regardless of the specific language, and prepares you for further learning.
3. In Texas it's logical that Spanish should be the language taught, due to availability of teachers and practical usefulness.
4. It might help the next generation of Americans to be a little less inward-looking than past and current generations.

I grew up in Toronto, where French was mandatory from grades 6 to 8. We had 20 minutes a day of French. Not exactly a freaking burden.

[RB TexLa]

155. Texas is a bilingual state, of course it should be required

[Sanctified]

157. The school should have more than one language class.

My elementary school offered Spanish, French, German and sign language. They had two language teachers one taught Spanish, French and math the other taught German, sign language and social studies. I took Spanish as a kid because I lived in AZ and figured I would use it all the time, I live in Oregon now and never use it and wish I spoke French.

[ulysses]

178. as has been pointed out upthread,

many schools don't have the resources to offer more options that that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

201. In rural Oregon you'd use it

and the fact that you've studied Spanish will make it easier to learn French through community college classes or Alliance Française.

[krabigirl]

160. I think they should offer more than one language, but I learned Spanish in school.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

161. I wish we had that here

My kids had a very tiny bit of Spanish instruction in elementary school, barely enough to stick. Now my high school aged daughter has to take 2 years of a language to graduate, 4 to graduate with honors. It's much harder to learn at this age.

[Samurai_Writer]

162. My nieces are 'forced' to learn Spanish and Chinese at their school

One is in Pre-Kindergarten and the other is in 1st grade. I think it's a very useful skill to have, and will stand them in good stead as they get older. Spanish and Chinese are going to be invaluable to know in the business world, politically, and socially in 10-15 years, if not already.

It's like when we were in school, we took typing. Now, they take keyboarding and computer classes. It's all about getting children ready for the REAL world.

[JanMichael]

164. Should they be forced to learn English or Math or Science?

Or literature or composition or biology or chemistry or history?

Maybe we shouldn't "force" kids to learn anything?

Oh what a wonderful world THAT would be...

[skygazer]

165. When I was in school, you had to take French

It was considered the international language and it was required for graduation. I see nothing wrong with requiring kids to learn Spanish.

[nemo137]

167. I wish I'd have had Spanish.

I had Japanese when I was in kindergarten and 1st grade, and then nothing until middle school French. I think that learning a foreign language is good for a kid. I remember my mom talking about my little cousin, and suggesting that maybe the bilingual magnet school was god for him, because it'd slow him down.

[JCMach1]

168. Absolute yes- two foreign languages are part of the curriculum here in UAE

In addition to instruction in English they MUST take Arabic. Then there is an optional language (usually French, or Urdu).

Student in Arabic schools MUST take English and take the second foreign language.

Americans need to get over the xenophobia and realize the rest of the world does foreign languages like candy.

BTW: the foreign language instruction here begins in pre-K

[Zookeeper]

169. My kids had Spanish classes in elementary school, just like...

I had French, not daily, but once or twice a week. It didn't really "take" for any of us, but my kids have gone on to learn Italian and/or French and/or German through Summer Immersion Language camps. My daughter is taking French in her high school, but the charter high school my eldest son goes to only offers Spanish, so he is continuing to study German independently (for credit).

Not enough schools around here offer Chinese, Russian or Japanese. I would like to see more choices than the standard Spanish, French or German.

[orleans]

170. i wish our grade schools had taught kids a second language. by the time

my daughter hit jr. high (and a language was offered as an elective) she refused to take it.

and i'm such a fucking push-over i let her get away with it.

i tried again (to get her into a spanish) in high school and she wouldn't do a language, though she said she wanted to learn german and not spanish if she had to learn any. (german?!?!?!)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

200. German is far from useless

It's widely spoken, not only in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, but also in Eastern Europe, where it is a popular second language. Some of my relatives went on a trip to Eastern Europe, not knowing any of the languages, and they found that people in places like Poland or Hungary who didn't speak English almost always spoke German.

In fact, when my church sponsored some Bosnian refugees (native language: Serbo-Croatian, no English), it was discovered that the parents spoke German, so anyone in the parish who spoke German was likely to get tapped for interpreting duties.

In addition, German (along with French) is a good language for anyone who is interested in Europe.

[Iris]

204. And studying any language helps you become more proficient with your own.

[countryjake]

171. Schools in our area use Two-Way Enrichment & we're far from Texas!

We have a bilingual Spanish Program here where classes are taught in one language for half the day and then they switch to use the other during the rest, beginning with kindergartners. That way the children who come from homes where Spanish is spoken sort of partner-up with the kids who only speak English and they actually learn from one another while sharpening their capacity to think.

I doubt the mother in the OP would have been very supportive of such a language program in her own daughter's school, but that is her loss. I imagine that poor kid feels mighty isolated from her friends and classmates, studying French alone, but such is the education preferred by bigoted parents. Maybe when she's older she'll learn to identify narrow mindedness and properly rebel.
And realize how useful knowing the Spanish language is in this country.

When I was a kid, we had to have language credits to graduate in college prep and that meant studying Latin and French, which were the only languages offered by my high school. I'll always regret that they couldn't afford a Spanish teacher.

[Matariki]

172. Forced? More like an opportunity.

If the girl learned Spanish in elementary school, French (and Italian) would be a breeze later on. In fact probably any new language would be easy if a kid learns a second language early.

As far as the politics around Spanish, we shouldn't be so stubborn. When I was in Italy last summer an Italian man I spoke with seemed to think that every American would naturally know Spanish as a second language and I felt a bit ashamed at my ignorance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

198. Exactly right--you don't get just one chance in your life to learn a language

Learning Spanish now will not prevent her from learning French or Italian or Portuguese later on. On the contrary, it will make it easier, because she'll be familiar with things like grammatical gender, verb inflections, adjective agreement, subjunctives, and other common traits of the descendants of Latin.

[mmonk]

175. Though I think students should be able to choose what language other

than English they would like to learn, I think it's a good idea for them to learn another language. Protests like this in my opinion are motivated by the prevailing hatred in this country promulgated by politicians for their own ends. A good idea for a mandated class for American children would be a how to class on how to be a decent human being not motivated by hatred and greed and master race religion.

[EMdamascus]

176. Not just no but hell no

This is NOT Mexico. She wont have to learn spanish if we can seal the border! And I know this won't go over well with the open border crowd.

[ulysses]

177. whee!

She wont have to learn spanish if we can seal the border!

Hermetically seal ourselves off from the rest of the world and she won't have to learn anything at all! What a great country!

[supernova]

184. Doesn't fit with the Reality crowd either

Enjoy your stay.

[Warren Stupidity]

186. I can feel the hate.

It is flowing from you, radiating, swirling around you.

[knitter4democracy]

218. It used to be Mexico.

;)

Spanish is one of the most commonly used languages in the world. Why is learning it a bad thing? People who are fluent in both English and Spanish have many, many more opportunities open to them than people who aren't. That, and learning a foreign language in elementary school is really more about critical thinking skills and learning about English.

[ulysses]

222. where'd you go?

Thought you were going to "stir things up in GD"...

[Norrin Radd]

179. No -- Klingon.

mataHmeH maSachnIS.

[Orsino]

180. You mean force them to take one class in Spanish?

Why the hell not? It's useful to know in America, and just might help train the kids out of some of the bigotry their outraged parents are filling them with.

[supernova]

181. This parent is incredibly stupid

If she's arguing for more parental control over what subject she exposes her daughter to, a foreign language, yes even Spanish, is a particularly daft way to go about it.

Crazy woman. :crazy:

[L. Coyote]

183. In some homes, they forget Moranic when taught a new language!

[L. Coyote]

182. We should ask, "Is our children 'forced' to learn?" or are we teaching them?

What is with this attitude about being "forced" to learn?
Sounds like there is a guy in the back of the classroom with a gun!

Besides, since when has someone figured out how to force a child to do anything they decide not to? If I recall correctly :rofl:

[ChazII]

185. This has been an enjoyable break

from the political discussions. Here is a link where one school district is teaching their students Mandrin.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070822/news_1m22chinese.html

[timtom]

187. A secondary language should be mandatory from third grade on

We were taught a bit of Spanish in the 3rd grade in Florida in 1952 (there weren't any Spanish-speakers of any multitude then).

Being multi-lingual can only increase one's intelligence.

Spanish isn't a bad choice.

[timtom]

188. Wait! I misread the OP!

I didn't realize the girl is learning French.

There should be a choice!!

[cornermouse]

192. Grapevine Texas, common sense would tell you to put the child

in the spanish class. Better to know what the people around you are saying than to try to guess.

[ileus]

193. They shouldn't have to in America, but they need to in NewAmerica.

[El Pinko]

194. I grew up in El Paso, Spanish was mandatory from 1st to 9th grade...

At the time I never had a problem with it.

I think it's dangerous to let parents tell the schools what should or should not be taught - it's a lot like the parents who don't ant their kids to learn science because it contradicts JAYZUS or sex education because genitals are DIRTY or whatever.


Grapevine is an exurb of Dallas and there are a lot of Mexican and Mexican-americans in the area, so Spanish is a useful skill, and learning a foreign language at an elementary age develops brain pathways that improve cognitive ability and adult linguistic ability.


Seems like this woman just has a bugaboo with Spanish because of some sort of antipathy towards Mexicans. Too bad - learning Spanish will help with learning all the romance languages, including the French she seems to have an interest in.

Didn't O'Lielly tell all these people to say no to all things French?

[Pharlo]

195. I don't get the mother.

I live in Wisconsin. In sixth grade in our school district, Spanish (and that was the ONLY second language option at that grade level) was mandatory. I told my mother I didn't want to take Spanish. I was told "Too god damn bad, you're taking it. AND, you WILL pass it." End of discussion.

If the mother feels that strongly about it, she has the option of moving to a different school district, sending her daughter to a private school, or home schooling. After all, the program has been in place at least 4 years longer than her child has been alive. She had plenty of time to plan to get her "little darling" out of this school district. It's not like it was a last minute decision by the school board at the beginning of this year.

Personally, if I lived in Texas and Spanish wasn't taught, I'd be even more concerned. Hell, I live in WI and I think Spanish should be mandatory - even here. There is a large Spanish speaking population. Granted, much smaller than Texas', but still considerable enough to make it a good idea. And it's better to start a language at a younger age rather than older.

[halobeam]

196. The way our school is set up is they have a choice in language, but required to take a second lang.

I think it should be up to the parents, to decide which language. I personally told my kids since elem. school, that I don't care what the requirements are for the school, but my requirements are they take Spanish, every year until they graduate and into college. I know it's a hard stance, when many kids prefer to choose it themselves, but I know way too many adults that regretted taking anything/if anything at all.. other than Spanish.


IMO, it's to their advantage to speak the second main language in this country. They'll be more competitive in the job market and they will be able to communicate with more people.

[Geek_Girl]

199. I think this is just another example of a Racist Ignorant parent who's bias is hurting their child

Learning a second language especially Spanish would benefit anyone in this country. My child is in a private Montessori school and she is learning Spanish in Pre-K and I feel very fortunate that my child gets exposed another language at such an early age.

[dropkickpa]

206. I force my child to learn Spanish in school

I deliberately enrolled her in a spanish-language magnet program. I am teh evul!!1!!11

*edited to add- I lived in Texas until I was 11. Never took a language class there, but picked up enough spanish from my friends to get by. I moved to Pittsburgh and took 1 year of Latin and 1 year of French in middle school (spanish wasn't offered at my school) and, when I got to HS, I tried to enroll in Spanish but a scheduling snafu by my counselor put me in the wrong class and I wasn't able to get into spanish 1 by the time he got around to fixing it (class was overcrowded), so I ended up taking 4 years of russian. What language do I actually remember anything in now? Spanish, because of my childhood friends and learning of it, and not a lick of the others except for Latin. I plan on taking a spanish class at some point again in my life.

[Vinca]

208. No, but I can't imagine why any parent wouldn't want their kid

to learn another language.

[Quantess]

211. Their message is

"we're too good to learn Mexican!" "They need to speak English!"
:eyes:
They live in Texas, and she's learning French instead of Spanish. :eyes:

[AngryAmish]

212. Am I dim, but I can't see how learning a foreign language is anything but good

Any language learned is good. She studies French by herself but learning Spanish helps learning French. A school can't offer everything.

Tell me where I am wrong.

[Elspeth]

213. 11 years old is 6th grade and the Spanish is for 1 hour a day

It think it is reasonable to start teaching foreign languages even earlier than 11. I think if they are going to offer foreign languages, there should be a choice. That said, Spanish is extremely useful and for practical reasons kids in the border states (TX, FL, CA, AZ, NM) should be familiar with it.

[MJJLWolf2]

219. Absolutely not.

That's called fascism.

[ulysses]

220. how is it fascism?

[Balbus]

223. Forced? No.

But I wish he would.

[goodgd_yall]

224. I don't think a child should be forced to learn math either.

(sarcasm)

Go ahead, Mom, deprive your daughter of language education.

Dumb.

[Bluebear]

227. "Forced", like education is some horrible thing.

:eyes:

[WinkyDink]

235. In TEXAS? Si!

[otherlander]

236. Children shouldn't be forced to learn *anything*.

They are, and all it does is destroy their desire to learn. The first few years aren't so bad: nursery school, pre-k, and kindergarten aren't really that structured. Kids are naturally curious about things, they ask questions, they look at things and ask what they are and how they work and if they have a good teacher, the teacher answers their questions, and encourage the kids to ask more questions. Then, once "real" school starts, education becomes drills, schedules, and pretty much everything that's poisonous to the natural want to know things. What child- hell, what person- is going to have a positive attitude toward learning when "learning" means not being able to go outside for seven hours and getting in trouble for doing anything that it's human nature to do? (Namely, talking, laughing, looking at new things, or just not sitting in a chair without moving.) Not to mention, as the years go on, the knowledge gained becomes less and less likely to be useful. Learning to read and write is definitely useful. Learning about the water cycle probably is. Learning how to take the second derivative of an equation rarely is. Not that I'm saying that education should just be about gaining life and career skills. If schools, rather than training people to operate as cogs in a machine, were used as gathering places where children could interact and be exposed to different fields of knowledge, obviously not everything a student showed interest in would be a practical skill, and that's a good thing. If, for example, someone wants to be a chef when they're a kid, and winds up being a nurse when they're an adult, it's wonderful if they've also gotten the chance to learn about history, poetry, or martial arts. An open structure of education can be seen in freeschools, but they're usually private schools that only people who are relatively well-off can afford. This kind of defeats the purpose, I think, because upper-middle-class suburban kids are the ones who are the best compensated for their cooperation with the standard mind-numbing educational system. The kids with less money are the ones who see less of a point in cooperating with the machine and being a cog in a wheel: "I see my parents following all the rules, and what has it gotten them? Hardly anything!" They're the ones who would benefit most from the freeschools, and they are the ones least able to get into them.

Rant over. Brief summary: Forcing children to learn things sucks. But there is some Spanish that people should probably learn: Viva la Escuela Moderna.

[treestar]

238. What's wrong with learning a second language?

The younger you start, the more successful you will be with it. It opens your mind and your possibilities.

Though the schools I went to gave us more of a choice - Spanish and French in Jr. High and in high school you could take those two or German or Latin.

Spanish is the second language of this country, and the language of many other countries in the world. It's worth learning for any American.

[margotb822]

240. Learning a language is great

But not offering a choice tarnishes the intentions. Research has shown that people are more capable of learning language when they are younger, so I encourage the idea.

[Flying Dream Blues]

246. In Texas, everyone learns Spanish in elementary school, but can

switch at either the middle school level (French or Latin were offered to my son in addition to Spanish at the MS level) or certainly at the high school level. This is because the smaller number of students at any given elementary school only allow for one foreign language to be taught. Spanish is the overwhelming favorite choice in Texas for reasons which should be clear.

Also, I believe research has shown that if you've learned one foreign language your brain is more receptive to learning another. It's really just an introduction at that level anyway, and it doesn't hurt anyone to know a bit of Spanish in Texas. Why any parent is opposed to their child getting an early education in Spanish is beyond me. I'm sure I can guess with 100% accuracy which primary this woman will vote in. This is a political objection, and it's really sad to me to see the young girl parroting her mother's ignorance.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

242. Spanish is the second most spoken language, world wide.

Mandarin is spoken by more people than any other.
Spanish is second.
English is third.

The western hemisphere includes Mexico, Central and South America, and there are hundreds of millions of people there who speak Spanish. This woman thinks that just because she speaks English, she can throw a tantrum and keep her kid from learning the language that she should learn, especially in Texas.

The Spanish speakers are ALREADY HERE! Many of them GREW UP HERE AND ARE NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZENS!!

[Scout]

243. all children should be forced to take a languange other than English

in elementary school and middle school.

We were taught French for 2 years, but they stopped for some reason. I wish they would not have stopped. I've been studying Spanish off and on for years; i'm finally taking Conversational Spanish now and loving it!

It's easy to learn languages when you're a child. It's not that hard as an adult either.

[unapatriciated]

248. That Hispanic child sitting next to your child, IS learning a second language.

When he becomes an adult he will have more job opportunities with higher pay.

[KansDem]

251. I was forced to learn Spanish when I was in 6th grade in 1964-65

A TeeVee was wheeled into the classroom each day and a "learn Spanish" program was aired. It was about 40 minutes long, but I remember I had a tough time of it because the "teacher" spoke entirely in Spanish. I remember when she pointed to a picture of a bird, for example, I couldn't tell if she was giving me the Spanish word for "bird" or the type of bird, or maybe she was saying "picture" or "drawing," or maybe she was saying "beak" or "wing"...etc., etc.

It was very frustrating...

[MissB]

253. The parent would be far better off working to raise money for a second language teacher.

It is very likely a funding issue, as many have pointed out.

Perhaps the angry parent can direct some of her efforts into coming up with enough donations to pay a teacher's salary, benefits and retirement contribution in order for the school to offer another choice.

Chances are really good the parent is simply racist.