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Old Leftists Never Die (They just lie there and whimper)

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 03:55 PM
Original message
Old Leftists Never Die (They just lie there and whimper)
I want to share with you something of my general sense of how things are going on the left side of the aisle--a place I have inhabited for these past forty years, after having, like you, come in from the cold, heartless world of conservatism. In my case, it was the Vietnam War, which I had some up-close and personal experiences with as an Army grunt, that provided the main impetus in unseating me from a sort of proto-Libertarian conservatism and dropping me into the political cauldron of the University of Wisconsin in the late-60's.

Anyway, I've been watching the shifting fortunes of the left these many years, and I have a few things I'd like to mention to you. First of these is that many of the problems we are now facing have their origins in the Reagan years, and even the Nixon years, when the repeal of human decency started happening in earnest. I don't mean to suggest that LBJ was any angel; in fact, I cheered from my foxhole when I heard he was pulling himself out of the '68 race.

For all the talk about the Libberul Dummycrats you hear around, by my standards I don't think there has been a true liberal Administration since FDR. Kennedy somewhat, and LBJ ditto, but they were both cold-war saber rattlers, while they admittedly did do much good domestically, especially Lyndon, with the 1964 civil rights legislation, Medicare, etc.

I have a fondness for Jimmy Carter, largely because of what he did after leaving the White House. I see his administration as basically decent and honest, but irreparably damaged by runaway inflation driven by OPEC (which had been unleashed as a result of deals made by Henry Kissinger in the Nixon/Ford years), and by the hostage crisis (which we may never know the truth of--remember the "October Surprise"). Carter really was no liberal. Nevertheless, he had an engineer's mind and displayed some vision about alternative energy and the environment.

Clinton? Clinton was certainly no liberal. NAFTA, Welfare "reform," and a few other things made that perfectly clear. Nevertheless, he did manage to stop the hemorrhaging of the Treasury. He was also luckier than Hell in that regard, in that he managed to be President during a thoroughly exciting time of technological and social innovation.

And that brings us to the present.

There are no liberals left in the race. You have Hillary and Obama, both of whom I see as "corporation-safe" candidates. The real liberals were starved out of the race by a mass media who gave them no space to breathe. It was kinda like "failure to thrive" in a neglected infant.

Because there are no liberals, there are only watered-down, milquetosty solutions to our major problems. Any campaign position held by any candidate, of either party, has to pass a test of corporate-friendliness. Anyone who neglects this fundamental principle will find his air supply immediately cut off.

That said, I still see either of the Democratic candidates as infinitely preferable to a McCain. I see myself as without a dog in the Primary fight, but I will cast a Democratic vote in the fall, because either of the watered-down, corporate-approved, SAFE candidates with a chance of winning is a better alternative than any Repubican. The wimpy Demcrat will buy us some environmental time, will somewhat cushion the coming economic blows for the poor, will get more people covered by health care plans, will roll back the stacking of the Supreme Court and the federal judiciary, and will allow us to rejoin the world community and start a long, slow process of recovery from our recently acquired reputation as a collective mob of axe-murderers.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't whimper, I ROAR
which is something anybody who's ever engaged me in political discussion in person will tell you.

Even though Edwards dropped out, I voted for him. The difference between Obama and Clinton in NM was 117 votes. Edwards got over 2500. I sincerely hope the two of them look at these numbers and realize what they mean instead of mean spiritedly chalking them up to misogyny and racism.

You are correct about the dearth of liberal administrations. I count LBJ as the last due to his domestic policies. Carter was a typical southern conservative Democrat who inherited the OPEC mess that neither Nixon nor Ford bothered to cope with, thanks to pressure from oil giants reaping windfall profits. Carter created the Strategic Reserve, busted the cartel, and got those prices down. He is never credited for that, though.

Still, what we have now is the logical outcome of 38 years of conservative rule by both parties, something we need to hammer home in all political discussions with people from either party. Conservative policies just plain don't work. Even the super rich are about to find that out as the dollar continues to tank and drag the Dow with it.

My guess is that people will be more amenable to persuasion once they're facing those consequences first hand in the form of foreclosure, duns from credit card companies, and incomes that prevent them from accessing the protection of the old bankruptcy laws.

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class2068 Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What unit?
I was in nam, too, 1970-1971. Navy air recon. What unit did you serve with, and where?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. There're quite a few of us Viet Nam vets on DU. (I'm '68-69, USARV HQ, Long Binh, E-5, 74F20)
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 04:32 PM by TahitiNut
:patriot: US54980...


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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I think you meant to reply to another post
I was anatomically exempt from Vietnam. I compensated by being a VA nurse.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. I was 1st Cav (2/5 Cav), 67-68.
First mostly in II Corps (Nui Mieu Mtns), then after Tet we were moved north. I got out of the infantry by an incredible piece of luck just before the Cave went in to Khe Sanh to dig out the Marines. My battalion took 25% casualties in a week on that little adventure.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. delete
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 04:40 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad


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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I remember that saying, those days, and that organization
although I got pretty jaded pretty quickly, suburban Marxists who'd never read anything past the Manifesto bored me.

Still, for all their "Love me, I'm a Liberal" flaws, they knew how to run a country without running it into the ground. I'm perfectly willing for them to come back.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. OK, your title made me laugh.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hillary & Obama are just kinder versions of McCain.
No doubt there will be many "write in" votes this year.

Better to hang on to your integrity than completely sell out, IMO.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. If you're gonna get fucked either way,
pick the one that uses Vaseline.

Dammit, lots of lower-SES people do a little better when even shitty Dems are in power. I'm not gonna do a totally narcissistic Nader trick on them. My notions of integrity are roted in utilitarianism.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. To the barricades in November!
They might be bastards, but they're our bastards.



:patriot:

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Amen.
Better to have them in the tent pissing out, than...
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Liberals.
The fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will cheer the fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty about turning you into the fascists.

A saying from my old SDS days in college (GI Bill)in the '60s. Still true.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Or feel guilty about giving them the money to shoot you.
I know that it's supposed to be Great Minds Discuss Ideas bla bla bla Small Minds Discuss People, but DU might be better off if we did talk more about people. Right now it seems like DU is full of threads about ideas. Well, ideas and politicians. And we know that trickle-down doesn't work in economics, so does anyone here actually believe that endless discussion about politicians will ever "trickle down" to actual people? Will one less person be shot or one more person be free because of 40 more threads about whether it's sexist to make fun of Hillary Clinton's laugh? With so many thinking people here, we could really be talking more about how actual people can be saved from the fascists, instead of talking about the same dozen politicians over and over again.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks, loved what you said.
Loved how you said it. I'll be voting for the D in the race. Any D, this time.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Campaign 2008 was a crushing defeat for Liberals/Progresssives.
and I don't see any way out beyond just refusing to play anymore.





:(
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. That Wasn't a Defeat
a defeat is after a fight. A fight that was meant to be played on an even playing field.... the current primary process and election system itself is compromised by the wealthy elite. Until elections are free, transparent and secure, the system itself will remain compromised. Anyone should be allowed to run for President and every candidate should be presented to the nation unbiased with equal time. I'd rather watch average Americans get voted into office to govern this country, than let a bunch of rich privileged fuck heads do what they have done for too long. Only problem is...
the fox is reigning the roost. They are in our way. It's why more liberals aren't in office today, and they know that too.
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