On prejudice against police....

[catnhatnh]

...many threads here devolve from discussion of the original post to flame wars with one side supporting the police even when the incident seems inexcusable while the other issues blanket condemnation of all police....I'd like to make a few observations here-which are my own and not "facts", and see what other posters think...Bonus points-do not use the words "moron" or fascist"....
...First,I think there is a huge change from the police of the fifties who were for the most part dealing with less of TONS of shit and helpful on the whole to law abiding citizens...
...The "war on drugs" changed the entire paradigm-the failure to push for treatment for hard drugs and the failure to treat marijuana as a less harmful alternative to alcohol has set most citizens in opposition to government policy.
...Many police departments have re-engaged the criminalization of free speech and political repression that marked them as "enemies" in the sixties.To me this seems to draw repressive personalities.
...The lie of the taser-and this one may start a flame war-but they were promised to be a "less-lethal" alternative to a gun.If I'm lying here than show me a single add from the manufacturer that pushes this to the public as a "compliance tool".The idea was they would be used on a crazy guy with a samurai sword....a guaranteed need to shoot situation, now magically averted by the wonder of technology. So why do we now need to discuss free speech and "Don't tase me, Bro"? I've seen posts positing batons and broken bones as the only, and worse, alternative-well,what would your reaction have been if that guy had been beaten and crippled on videotape for asking a question.My opinion is that until each taser deployment is at LEAST given the same review as a "shots fired" incident we have slipped towards fascism.Remember this-10 years ago they didn't exist and once they did NOTHING WAS SOLVED-with the possible exception of certain politicians cash flow problems...
...So here we are-a majority of Americans, I believe, would much rather not see a cop during the day than to engage one....Quo Vadis?

[Solon]

1. I would agree, but you should also have pointed out institutional corruption...

and the environment it fosters that turns even good cops bad. C.R.A.S.H., in the LAPD is a classic example, along with many anti-gang and drug forces in many other police departments.

[catnhatnh]

2. I'm not sure about CRASH....

but locally we have a A SWAT that seems over deployed...for those that wonder, I am antifascist but only put off by my local police....I try to cut them some slack but fail to see them as being "helpful"...

[Solon]

7. Well CRASH was caught with things such as money laundering...

drug dealing, brutality, and a little more recently, they framed somewhere around 100 people who were subsequently released from prison. A rogue department, in other words, but it does illustrate what a cloistered police department and police in general are capable of when given enough leeway and little supervision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampart_Scandal

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Let me add a couple things

in the 1950s you didn't have state standards, for almost no law enforcement

Since we started developing state standards many formerly bad departments have gone from anywhere from fair to good.

Now LAPD does not follow state standards, and their academy is separate from California's certificate process (one explanation to their chronic problems)

But how good or bad a department is truly depends on three factors.

1.- Leadership, if you have good leadership most of your officers will follow procedure and you will tend to have a good department, overall

2.- Funding... even the best of departments cannot help you if they spend their day chasing the radio (which is the local example)

3.- Continued training... and this comes down to money... but officers are given eight hours of taser training... hell they are given a week for ALL less than lethal devices... care to ask how long they train with their firearms? Until we require the use of lethal and non-lethal force to cover the same time, you can expect LTL to continue to be misused. It is still better than a gun... but that is part of the problem. Oh and yes, this one comes down to money... once again.

[catnhatnh]

4. Thank you....

...I tend to like some cops and yet hate most police departments...

[Dawggie]

8. I would also think that a difference should be noticed between police and jailors...

It seems that much of the abuse being committed to citizens via the hands of the people responsible for incarcerating them.

[cloudbase]

5. For me, it's the whole

"us versus them" attitude that seems so prevalent in police departments these days. While I believe that most cops are pretty good guys on an individual basis, there's still a group dynamic that brings a reluctance to get rid of the bad apples within their departments. Nobody wants to be tagged as not being a team player.

The time is coming when individual police may have to ask themselves which side they're on.

[catnhatnh]

10. Yes-you're close to what I wanted to ask. N/T

[angrycarpenter]

6. A taser is a substitute for patience

Police have tendency to use these things on angry people rather than trying to calm them down. When police show up they expect the people to obey them without pause. If some one has totally made you lose your temper you cannot just calm down as soon as the police arrive. I know a man who was beaten in a bar parking lot because he was black man who dared hit on a white woman. Police were called. When they showed up the first thing they saw was an infuriated black man with no shirt. Within seconds of exiting their car he was tased and handcuffed. He was released without charges but if the police had taken 5 seconds to get the full story this would not have happened.

[catnhatnh]

9. I don't see a lot of police supporters here...

and yet there are a bunch on DU.I like that they support the people but would like to either see them support the system or explain where the problem is....

[AX10]

11. kick

"The lie of the taser-and this one may start a flame war-but they were promised to be a "less-lethal" alternative to a gun.If I'm lying here than show me a single add from the manufacturer that pushes this to the public as a "compliance tool".The idea was they would be used on a crazy guy with a samurai sword....a guaranteed need to shoot situation, now magically averted by the wonder of technology. So why do we now need to discuss free speech and "Don't tase me, Bro"? I've seen posts positing batons and broken bones as the only, and worse, alternative-well,what would your reaction have been if that guy had been beaten and crippled on videotape for asking a question.My opinion is that until each taser deployment is at LEAST given the same review as a "shots fired" incident we have slipped towards fascism"

[mvccd1000]

12. What I have to laugh at is...

... the hatred towards the police in any police thread.

Let a gun thread pop up, though, and "only the police should have guns."

I do have to smile at the irony. :)

[leftofthedial]

13. why blame the pigs?

it's not always the fault of the fascist, violent, ignorant fuckwads who end up in law enforcement.

I'm old and there has never been a cop there when I needed one, but there have been plenty exercising their nazi prison guard faux macho shit just because they can.

now that we live in a corpo-fascist oligarchy, look for cops to become more and more and more brutal.

[NOLALady]

14. The people in my neighborhood did not trust the police in the

fifties. Men were harassed and beaten by NOPD's finest.
They would 'bust' card games to steal the money.
I remember at least one rumor of a rape of a teen aged girl. Actually we were about 12/13 when they police put her in their car. They said her shorts were too short so they had to arrest her. I call it a rumor of a rape because the adults would not tell us exactly what happened. I just remember a lot of tears and whispers.

IMO, the police of today aren't much different than the police of my childhood. The NOPD of the fifties was not helpful to the law abiding citizens of my community.

[genie_weenie]

15. Who's ever happy to see a cop?

When a cop pulls someone over what is the instant reaction of the driver? Why?

Think of the byzantine laws involving vehicles... Bumper Heights, Tinted windows, turn signals, windshield obstructions.

Why do people get angry at the cops when they get burglarized or damage is done to their property?

Does society (American or Other) need a police force? Are people inherently good, bad or neutral?

Should cops "ignore" some laws (on pot for instance)? Why won't those in government reinvestigate marijuana instead of relying on "Refer Madness" and studies done in the early 20th century?

Is drunk driving a crime if you don't hurt anyone and get home okay or is it only a crime when you injure someone from your actions?

Edit: To include http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2809220&mesg_id=2809461">this response to another thread