Geffen's Hillary Criticism Is 'Nothing I Haven't Heard From Women Voters Across America'

[Quixote1818]

The Huffington Post | Melinda Henneberger | Posted February 24, 2007 11:42 AM
Contact/tips: [e-mail]


WASHINGTON - Just this once, Hollywood is perfectly in sync with Middle America, with David Geffen faithfully channeling Main Street, U.S.A.

As Geffen goes, so goes Kansas City?

All I can tell you is, everything he told Maureen Dowd last week - about his own feeling that Hillary Clinton is just too polarizing, and poll-tested out the ying-yang - is nothing I hadn't heard over and over in 18 months worth of interviews with women voters across the political spectrum, in 20 states from Massachusetts to Arizona and Oregon to Louisiana.

Geffen, who raised millions for Bill Clinton, told Dowd, "I don't think that another incredibly polarizing figure, no matter how smart she is...can bring the country together.''

Or as Mary Jane Arrington, a former Democratic county official in Florida's Osceola County put it to me, "I think Bill Clinton could get reelected, but I don't think Hillary can, and I hope she's smart enough to know that. She's smart, but she comes across as a pushy woman. She's not the right one, and to break the glass ceiling, you have to be the right one.''

More:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melinda-henneberger/geffens-hillary-criticis_b_42001.html

[Missy M]

1. Another hit piece.....

"she comes across as pushy", I can't believe this stupid line is still used against women in this day and age. I guess that's what I would expect from huffingtonpost.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Hit piece or not

here is my take on her

She IS poloarizing

She is the WET DREAM of the Right wing as a Lefty Candidate

She is mostly a conservative (of the old school)

And I am sick and tired of having dinasties.

[William769]

6. Heres my take.

And she will be our next President!

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And I will work as hard as I can against her during

the primaries and if she's the candidate after the primaries then weil talk

[William769]

26. And I will work as hard as I can during the primaries for her.

So I guess we cancel each other out.

[Cha]

7. YES! And good point

Geffen makes about "I don't think that another incredibly polarizing figure, no matter how smart she is...can bring the country together.''

We need someone who has that quality who will bring The People together..at least try. Not someone who sticks up their nose because she knows those corporations are goin' be stock pilin' the money for her.

[papau]

29. The actual Geffen quote shows he was only worried about getting Peltier pardon - and felt

that Clinton saw the injustice (as have Mandela and many others) and did not act on that belief because of the near riot of the 500 FBI in front of the White House.

More from Dowd:

They fell out in 2000, when Mr. Clinton gave a pardon to Marc Rich after rebuffing Mr. Geffen’s request for one for Leonard Peltier. “Marc Rich getting pardoned? An oil-profiteer expatriate who left the country rather than pay taxes or face justice?” Mr. Geffen says. “Yet another time when the Clintons were unwilling to stand for the things that they genuinely believe in. Everybody in politics lies, but they do it with such ease, it’s troubling.”
***
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003548043

[MADem]

34. There is a rumor out there about that Rich business

It's mostly circulated in the "woo-woo" sectors, where wild ideas and flaky theories live. But every so often these 'woo-woo' theories turn out to be true, and it wouldn't surprise me if Marc Rich WAS in fact, a liaison officer for the CIA or other intelligence agencies to Mossad.

When you think about it, it's great cover--the minute you make the story look like a cash for pardon exercise, all the CIA chitchat goes out the window. After all, the best agents die unknown, of old age and from natural causes.

[papau]

46. nope - this was a world - tax dodging - that I worked in - and Rich was well known - and what he did

was well known - and the fact that all the oil companies did the same thing was well known.

When they ruled they could not use that calculation procedure to calculate the tax, all other oil companies were fined, made donations to the GOP, and life went on.

Rich fought it - and they punished him by going beyond a fine to get a friendly judge that convicted him of criminal conduct over a industry standard calculation procedure and corporate structure arrangement. He just did not give enough to the GOP, I guess. The folks working in international and taxation - like myself - were astounded and horrified that trying to minimize your tax - in a legal -showing the IRS every step of what you were doing - way - could result in a criminal conviction. A pre-text of embargo breaking was a con, as every oil company was and continued to break the embargo with Reagan's OK as long as they used a friendly country subsidiary - and Rich did it in the usual way.

There was no reason to "get him" - except politics. A pardon was overdue.

The Mossad idea is tossed out there for every person with a Jewish 2nd cousin - this country's past biases are perhaps more hidden than gone.

The reason the above only got limited media - it did get out but in a very limited way - was the fact that our oil companies put pressure on the media - and the media caved.

[aquart]

8. A conservative is a wet dream of the right as a lefty candidate?

Well, all righty then.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. She IS a conservative of the OLD SCHOOL

look at her policies and voting record, OUTSIDE helth care, she is center right, OF THE OLD SCHOOL, not the current crazies who are so right they make Atila and Hitler look like damn modereates

[Garbo 2004]

43. For years it was the right that promoted Hillary as the Dem candidate/nominee for 2004 or

2008. It's been one of the RW hobbyhorses since Hillary was elected to the Senate. Faux's had Dick Morris with his breathless gossip and prognostications about Hillary running for Pres for years. It's been Morris' meat and potatoes. The right was pushing the idea of a Pres run for Hillary before any Dems were, she's one of their favorite boogeymen. It has indeed the wet dream of the right: they've had the right wing noise machine geared up for it for years.

Doesn't matter if Bill/Hillary weren't/aren't fire breathing lefties, in the world of Faux and the RW noise machine they are. And they have been looking forward to a Hillary presidential run/nomination to attack.

[MADem]

9. The author of the piece was outed by the Howler for screwing over GORE in 00

See the link below.

This is absolute tripe. Like I said, if she's not on the RNC payroll, the b-word is getting ripped off.

And I'm an undecided voter, but I'll be damned if I let some carping, opinionated shithead tell me that "pushy women" can't run for President. I'll wait for the debates, and then come to a decision. If she gets the nom, she has my vote. If someone else does, they'll get my vote.

The more people push me in one direction, the more determined I am to ask WHY? Why is it so important to preemptively marginalize this woman, and not allow the voters to look and decide for themselves?

[hfojvt]

12. good points

but who is the b-word, Arianna or Hillary?

[MADem]

25. The AUTHOR of the piece. Go look at the link I posted below from the Howler.

No wonder this woman changes jobs every few years--it would seem she lacks TALENT as a journalist.

But she does one helluva job carrying RNC water, doesn't she?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. It is not the pushy women that bothers me

or the bitch part, it is the CLINTON part

I really do not want dinasties ok... and we need a new break, PERIOD. No more bushes, no more Clintons and no more Kennedys, clear enough for you?

[MADem]

30. Well, look at history. FDR was related to TR. We'd have missed out on one helluva period in

history if your 'rule' was applied. And while dynasties of blood are all too common, Bill and Hillary are UNRELATED in terms of their DNA--so you're not going to get any genetic traits going on there.

I find it astounding that you'd penalize the woman because she's married to Bill--and it's a good thing you aren't making the laws, I guess. Keep in mind, she wouldn't even BE a "Clinton" if the asswipes in "family values America" (the same bastards who today likely have grandchildren whose parents aren't or never were married) INSISTED that she subordinate her birth name, Rodham, the name that appears on her law degree, the name she practiced law using, so that she and Bill would "match."

I think that trying to stop someone from running because they are RELATED to a former President is first, undoable, and second, a bit authoritarian. Why restrict someone because of who they're related to? That's just not right. I'm reminded of John Shalikashvili's challenges when he went up for the CJCS nomination--some pretty cheesy stuff flew around about that guy because of his father.

In America, every person has the right to make the run, if they meet age/citizenship requirements. I see no need to change that system. You're free to vote as you please, and you're free to voice your opinion. But I'm also free to consider, and then discard, your counsel. Clear enough for you?

[durrrty libby]

32. BullShit to your entire post...and

BTW...you, along with other sheeple obviously have NO Clue

as to the meaning of dynasty


Baa...Baa...Sheeple

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[Quixote1818]

3. I agree for the most part

It is an unfair double standard that Men are not held to but I think there are a lot of other Women who do come across better than Hillary. If someone with Stephanie Miller's personality ran everyone would love her. Geraldine Ferraro was loved by most people as well. Something about Hillary seems cold and stiff compared to these other women. Still, personality shouldn't be the deciding factor in who we chose for our leaders and I have no doubt Hillary would be a decent president.

Unfortunately for Hillary, I think what is written in Huffington Post is probably a pretty realistic assessment of how Hillary is seen across the country.

[Missy M]

13. Then many people across the country have not listened to...

Hillary and they will get a chance to now. She came into my state (NY), worked hard and won even many skeptics over. Hillary is not cold and stiff and she isn't trying to win a personality contest, she is trying to be president. I'm not so sure Geraldine Ferraro was loved by most people, (I loved her), because her and Mondale were defeated in a landslide. Should we have a Laura Bush type running? Give Hillary a chance to really start campaigning and see what happens. Don't buy into RW Talking Points.

[Quixote1818]

16. I have heard in person she is much more relaxed and actually very funny

She needs to somehow show people that side of her. Gore had a similar problem with being called stiff. I think he made a real effort to loosen up and improve his image.

[Cha]

23. Yeah, I met her in 2001

before her IWR vote and her subsequent bushit enabling.

She was just great.

[BeyondGeography]

31. Hillary's negatives are way up in NY since November

There are 40% just as they are in the rest of the country. Main reason: The renewed focus on her IWR stance since she started campaigning.

http://cayankee.blogs.com/cayankee/2007/02/hillarys_unfavo.html

[Missy M]

33. They are 7% up, not that bad.....

could be because she is running for president. In New York she is way ahead of the other Dem candidates.

[BeyondGeography]

35. Wrong, they are up more than 20%

From 33% to 40% is not a 7% increase. :eyes:

[Missy M]

41. Meant to say 7 points

[Toots]

55. I guess that means she doesn't "know her place"

Why oh why isn't she home baking cookies and pregnant???

[BeyondGeography]

4. Unfavorable ratings rooted firmly in the 40's

but her followers know better...they can't stand to be wrong, which is the story of their boomer lives.

[aquart]

10. Excuse me?

"Boomers," who are the children of the men returning from World War II, who are the ones who marched against the atom bomb and Viet Nam...are a problem for you?

Isn't it wonderful to be able to express a snide and insidious hatred of a group that hasn't yet organized to defend itself from slime?

[BeyondGeography]

20. Organized boomers? Eeek

Obama's a boomer, I'm a boomer...whatever. It was a dumb bit of flamebaiting on my part. Explaining the flimsy thought behind it would only distract from the main point: 40% of the country doesn't like this woman! Nominating her would be inane.

[MADem]

24. I'm guessing the writer is quite young.

At least that's the way it looks--the comment is, to put it kindly, childish.

Forgive them their immaturity, I suppose. They'll have time to grow, to gain experience, to maybe study a bit of quite recent history...and be embarrassed later!

[MADem]

21. Like Rudy Giuliani had before 9/11, you mean? Why, she'll NEVER recover, then!

Ratings aren't "rooted." They move. Look at Monkeyboy's--he's been all over the map. So has Newt Gingrich--he's been up, down and up again. Hell, history is full of improbable political comebacks--Richard Nixon did it not once, but TWICE. Grover Cleveland recovered from having an illegitimate child in the days when that was a total kiss of death; he also dodged the draft, in essence, by hiring a substitute to serve in the Civil War for him--and he went on to win his election. Look at Trent Lott; once a mighty majority leader, tossed into the valley after the Strom thing, and now, working his way back up the mountain as minority whip, elected by his PEERS.

The only things that are rooted are plants. Polls can and do shift, and that includes favorability ratings.

You'll always have people who hate. There are old fools still alive today who shake their fist and snarl at the mention of FDR's name. But history put them in their 'old fools' place.

I really am not understanding your they can't stand to be wrong, which is the story of their boomer lives remark. Quite a generalization, there--and seemingly meanspirited, to boot....I don't know if you're saying her following is exclusively boomer, but if you are saying that, I think you might be wrong. She's also got a good number of elderly supporters, and, unlike the always-underachieving, hypercritical "youth vote," the elderly actually get off their asses, on their walkers and out to the polls.

I'll wait to see how she does in the debates. Until then, I'm keeping an open mind. It's early days yet.

[BeyondGeography]

28. And the 90's didn't happen either

Comparing her with Giuliani pre-9/11 is almost as weak as my boomer comment (how's that for humility). What, pray tell, could possibly happen between now and next November that would give her the kind of leadership opportunity afforded Giuliani by the World Trade Center attacks? I'm also sure that Giuliani's unfavorable ratings in New York City, where I live and where he's very well known, haven't moved that much for the same reason that Hillary's won't: we know very well who he is and those of us who don't like him never will.

How much exposure do you think the country had to Hillary in the 90's? How many people are really undecided about this woman? The fact that her ratings are so bad suggests the answrrs to those questions are not terribly encouraging.

[MADem]

37. Uh, youngster--are you only capable of LINEAR thought?

I am not comparing her with Rudy pre-911. You apparently are, though. To what end, I've no idea. I certainly wasn't comparing her to Nixon, was I? Or Grover Cleveland? Or did you not bother to read the post, and hit 'reply' based on the subject line?

What I am saying to you...and I will say it as simply as possible so you don't misunderstand, is that polls are not STATIC. Capisce? They change, based on events, publicity, even the endorsement of others.

Rudy was a goat, and something happened. He became a hero. Newt was a hero, he became a goat. Now he's a hero again. Nixon was a hero, a goat, a hero, a goat and a hero again. Grover Cleveland rose from the dead, damn near.

Hillary's ratings could change with a speech or three, an appearance, a remark, a key endorsement.

Look at what happened to Dean after a scream.

One more time--polls aren't static, and this fact has nothing to do with Hillary being 'compared' with Rudy in the 90's.

RIF.

[BeyondGeography]

39. Hillary's unfavorables ARE static

since 2001 she has averaged in the mid-40's:

http://politicalarithmetik.blogspot.com/2007/01/hillary-clinton-favorableunfavorable.html

Maybe this helps, old dude.

[MADem]

42. Those numbers are over a year old. Pfft.

While the original cite (which is Pollster.com, FWIW) says the data runs through 07, the accompanying graphs don't go that far.

Figures lie, and liars figure. Here's another poll that has her unfavorable ratings averaging in the thirties. http://www.siena.edu/sri/results/2007/07_Jan_NYPoll.htm

Bottom line: the only polls that count happen on the day people go to the polls when her name is on the primary ballots.

I'm an undecided voter. But I'll tell you, the Hillary bashing you are doing isn't helping your favored candidate, Senator Obama, at all. People tend to be known by the company they keep--and you aren't helping your guy at all.

You want him to win? Spend your energies telling us why he's so good, not why others are so bad. If you want to represent him to us, do it in a way that will bring honor to him.

Old dudes, and old ladies, as well, VOTE. In large numbers. Faithfully. Don't underestimate that sector of the population. The Ned Lamont workers in CT were counting on the young vote, and they were let down, BADLY. Why? Because talk doesn't cut it--walk (or crawl, or ride--to the polls) is what turns a candidate into an officeholder.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Now you're embarrassing yourself

The Siena numbers are for New York state ONLY. I'm referencing national numbers.

I will concede one point: Her numbers do move with events. Unfortunately, the only time her unfavorables have gone down in the past decade was when Bill was cheating on her. :evilgrin:

[MADem]

48. Didn't you take my point? I guess you didn't. My point was that only ONE poll counts.

That being the poll that happens on election day.

And like I said, you do nothing to advance the cause of your candidate by pulling down others in meanspirited fashion. I rather don't think that Barack Obama would appreciate the sort of "help" you are giving him. Maybe a little phone banking or precinct walking or, at this early stage, FUNDRAISING, might be a more positive outlet.

That was my point.

[BeyondGeography]

49. That's the second time you've changed the subject after being totally debunked

It's OK to behave like that here, but try to avoid it with friends and family.

And thanks for the primer on how to help Barack. Phone banks, fundraising...who knew?

[MADem]

51. No, that's what YOU are doing. RIF....a challenge for you, apparently.

And those suggestions I made are certainly more productive than trying to childishly shit on any of his opponents. Who's next? Edwards? Richardson?

That nonsense doesn't fly with people who actually make it to the polls...

[MADem]

5. Oh, wow, what a shock...another less-than-kind Hillary thread!!

I swear, we'd probably be better off if all these gripes were swept up and put in a single folder.

Mary Jane Arrington is probably better off as a FORMER Democratic county official. That 'pushy woman' remark is way too 20th Century--sounds like Karl Rove wrote her lines for her. Wonder how long that Lois Lane of a reporter had to chat with her to get that money quote?

With her 'barefoot and pregnant' attitude towards women, we sure don't need assholes like that doing any 'touting' on behalf of the party.

And she's not the worst of it. The author of this hit piece just might have a bit of a covert agenda. Why would I think such a thing?

Here, have a lookie-look at an interesting archive of the Daily HOWLER's assessment of Miz Henneberger's reportage. Read the whole thing, now. They find it wanting as do I:

http://www.dailyhowler.com/h072799_1.shtml

.....It is now quite clear that Henneberger believes we are electing a federal dance instructor. Only someone prepared for la vida loca could pass muster in the writer's strange world. Incredibly, Henneberger went on to interview a former associate of Gore's about—what else—Gore's posture in cars! When they would drive to Tennessee town meetings in the 80's, the man said, "the rest of us were always slouching in the car." But guess what? " maintain perfect posture the whole time," according to the penetrating interlocutor.

Are there words sufficient to convey the dumbness of this style of campaign reporting? At THE HOWLER, we're impressed, not just by the vacuous subject matter, but by the author's tolerance for the subjective. In this report, we are repeatedly told how Gore "seemed" to Henneberger, despite her awareness that he didn't "seem" that way to anyone else. ....

If this reporter isn't getting paid by the RNC, she should demand her pound of flesh. She's earned a fortune, plainly, from their perspective.

We don't need con artists like this to shape this election like she's done in the past, and anyone who takes this shit at face value is an absolute fool.

[tularetom]

11. What I like about Hillary - the wing nuts despise her

The mention of her name drives them absolutely fuckin nuts.

What I dislike about her - nearly everything else.

[Quixote1818]

14. It would be funny if she was elected

The Right wing would lose it! It would be like Dick Cheney being elected President for us. I would probably move to Canada if Dick was elected.

There is no one they hate worse then Hillary and no one we hate worse than Dick.

[Cha]

19. We need to cool the critique

on hillary cause swartzenegger thinks we should..yeah.


"He thinks Democrats should stop criticizing Hillary Clinton for refusing to say she made a mistake by voting for the Iraq war."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2874.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Well if my guvernator says such

I'd better go to attntion, salute and say sig heil.

:-)

[Quixote1818]

27. Thats what David Brooks said too

Knowing this came from David Brooks makes me want to do just the opposite. He is so dam stupid on the Iraq war!

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/article/view/?id=1336

[yardwork]

36. Why doesn't Geffen talk about the Republican liars?

Does Geffen want a Republican to win the White House again?

[Quixote1818]

38. He helped Bill raise $18 Million

I think he is entitled to a little criticism of those he has done so much for.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. I'm from Arkansas

and lived there when Bill and Hillary lived in the Governor's mansion at Little Rock. I don't like her because of the way she talked with folks here and how she handled herself on issues here. (I know she wasn't in elective office, but she did have her pet projects she was supporting, and that's what I'm talking about.) I know a lot of folks that have lived in the state longer than I have-from the left and from the right--and it's funny. The right wingers don't like Bill all that much, and the lefties love Bill. But all of them are cool when it comes to Hillary's candidacy.

[papau]

47. She polls over 50% in Ark against anyone - so it can't be a universal thought, - can it? n/t

n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

53. Nope, but

I have my own personal reasons for not liking her, and so do my friends. And it seems to me that someone who lived in the state for decades would be polling at least 70%-80% if she was really liked a lot.

[earth mom]

45. I'm a woman-I don't like Hillary for many reasons but the kicker was when she dissed Cindy Sheehan.

I don't want another warmonger in the White House. Simple as that! :thumbsdown:

[leftchick]

50. the kicker for me was her IWR vote

then the Cindy comments. Cindy has more integrity in her little toe than Hil will see in a lifetime. Warmonger/corporatist/DLC that be hillary!

:thumbsdown:

[earth mom]

56. You said it!

Go Cindy! :applause:

[L A Woman]

52. Pushy woman???

It's nonsense. She could get elected tomorrow. War vote or no war vote. But it's funny to watch the misogynists at work already! And like the racists who dig up some black Republican to add validity to their side, the misogynists can easily find women who hate Hillary/hate themselves to do the same. Sad.

[durrrty libby]

54. You got it sister. She could be elected tomorrow and

she would be a superb president

The self-loathers are more than sad. They make be puke and ashamed of my gender