Immigration. In light of tonight's Republican presidential debate - I ask:

[pinto]

Are the poor a national security threat?

In light of tonight's Republican presidential debate (1/30) and the near unanimous framing of illegal immigration across our southern border as a national security issue - I ask:

What is the national security threat from poor people crossing our border, on foot, looking for work? If they pose a national risk, say so. Specifically.

How would the much touted "fence" enhance national security? Specifically.

Our national history of foreign terrorism as well as large scale drug trafficking is about planes, boats and trucks - legal and illegal.

If there is a national threat posed by poor people walking across the Sonoran desert or wading the Rio Grande, say so, specifically.

I'll listen.

Otherwise, take your red herrings and find another issue to pander.

[MadMaddie]

1. Well when the host asks such ridiculous questions....that's

all the public will hear.

I am sick of the media running these debates....this has to change.

[BuyingThyme]

2. Job security is national security. You're stuck in the world of terra.

You're stuck in a world that never existed.

[pinto]

6. That's my point. My beef was the reliance of all on a sound bite response.

While I see the jobs issue as a piece of our immigration policies, my snippet was about the (R) lack of depth in discussion.

No biggie, actually - it kind of comes with the territory. I still long for some nuance, though, when someone - even from the other party - is asking the nation for a vote of confidence.

[goodgd_yall]

8. I noticed McCain didn't say a thing about a guest worker program

Which he has previously. I thought he would since growers in California are worried about a labor shortage with tighter immigration restrictions. If there's anyplace he should have mentioned it, it should have been California.

[pinto]

9. You'd think so. It's a big issue out here, from a number of angles.

The (R)'s are dancin' and holding on to the fence as a talking point.

Bottom line, though, they aren't going to make the call - either in the White House, the Congress or California.

It won't get much action 'till '09.

[stillcool]

3. Republican "issues"...

never have a solution. They just need something to bitch about and get people all riled up so they can keep on keeping on. How could they possibly be against cheap labor?

[DesertFlower]

4. why is it always the southern border?

is it because the people's skin is a little darker? yes, i know that drugs do come in from mexico. i'm more concerned with the canadian border.

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. And leave our free Health Care behind? - no way - -

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I don't think the US need worry about a swarm of us Canuks racing across the border in search of "better" living/working conditions.

We read the news.

[DesertFlower]

13. you know who i'm talking about.

remember the terrorists they caught circa 2000 trying to cross into the US?

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. Actually, no. I had no idea that you were talking about terrorists from Canada.

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I assumed (wrongly it appears) that you were insinuating that us Canadians would be illegally crossing the border to take American jobs, as I hear many groups down there voicing concerns about the influx of Mexicans workers illegaly crossing your southern border.

But NOW I know what you meant.

It would appear that we seem to be doing not too bad a job of keeping tabs on the terrorists - albeit no matter what ANYONE does, some are bound to get through sooner or later.

And, since our Prime Ministers of late have decided to make our soldiers convert from peacekeeping to combat operations, I am concerned what the terrorists may try INSIDE our borders.

For your perusal, here is a bit of info I found while googling to educate myself as to what you were referring to.

Found this at http://www.adl.org/Terror/tu/tu_0401_canada.asp

In December 1999, Algerian terrorist Ahmed Ressam was caught trying to cross the Canadian-American border at Port Angeles, Washington, with explosives in his car. Ressam belonged to a Montreal-based terrorist cell thought to be linked to both the Algerian terrorist group Armed Islamic Group (GIA) and Al Qaeda. The cell was apparently planning a millennium terror attack at Los Angeles International Airport. In April 2001 Ressam was convicted in Los Angeles of conspiracy to commit terrorism, document fraud and possession of deadly explosives.

/snip/

In December 2001, the U.S. and Canada signed a Joint Statement of Cooperation on Border Security and Regional Migration Issues.The declaration established a joint action plan for deter-ring, detecting and prosecuting security threats while ensuring the free flow of people and goods across the border. In November 2003, the U.S. and Canada announced the creation of two more Integrated Border Enforcement Teams (IBETs) to improve security across the border. IBETs are multi-agency teams combining U.S. and Canadian law enforcement, immigration and customs officials, working together daily with local, state and provincial enforcement agencies.They are strategically located along the length of the border to ensure it remains open to trade and travel, but closed to criminal or terrorist elements. With the two new ones, there are now 14 IBETs covering every strategic location across the U.S.- Canada border.

/snip/

Canadian Anti-Terror Initiatives

In December 2001, the Canadian Parliament passed the Anti-Terrorism Act, which made perpetrating, financing, or contributing to terrorist activity in Canada a crime. It is now a crime to knowingly support terrorist organizations through overt violence, documentary support, shelter or funds. The legislation requires the publication of a list of terrorist groups deemed to constitute a threat to the security of Canada and Canadians. The act also increased the government's investigative powers and paved the way for the country to sign the last two of the United Nations' 12 antiterrorism conventions.

At this writing, Canada has designated 34 foreign terrorist organizations. The assets of the groups have been frozen, and belonging to a banned terrorist group, raising money for it or supporting its activities is a crime that could bring up to 10 years in prison. Most recently, in November 2003, Canada added to the list the Palestine Liberation Front, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command

/end/

I hope you can understand my confusion to your post that I responded to, as all we hear up here is how that wall down there is supposed to be keeping illegal immigrant workers out

That's the way it reads up here.

I have seen no mention that the proposed border wall down there had anything to do with terrorism.

[DesertFlower]

19. yes. that was the case i was talking about. thanks for the info.

well i've heard a few things about the proposed border wall keeping out terrorists. some have said that a terrorist might pay a mexican a substantial amount of money to help him cross the border. of course, that's very "hypothetical".

the way things are going here so many of the decent jobs are going to india, china and brazil so i doubt whether canadians would want to come here for the jobs. we'd be more likely to go to canada to get the medical care. of course, our officials try to tell us how terrible it is in canada and other countries who have universal health care. my sister has lived in toronto since '74. raised 2 kids there. never once has she complained about the medical.

[ConcernedCanuk]

22. Interesting, small world we live in. I lived in Toronto from mid sixties to '70,

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where I went to High School(Islington).

Again I lived in Toronto(High Park) when I worked at C. P. Rail from 1990 - 1993.

My mother still lives there(Mississauga).

[roamer65]

5. If a Rethug is "selected" president...

it will be the end of the republic. Period.

[goodgd_yall]

7. No, but it's the way they can sell their anti-immigration spiel

without talking about the real issue: white people believing their culture is being overwhelmed by latino culture. Got to get that Latino vote!

[forwhatsright]

10. Terrorists can cross with them

Put aside that its illegal to cross into any country without a Visa and go ahead and try crossing into Mexico with no Visa or paperwork and see how they treat you. I doubt they will give you a job, allow you to put a roof over your head and work and feed yourself. The threat of an unsecured border is that it allows terrorists, (you know the Islam extremists who like to chop our heads off, use their children as bombs, etc...) it is them we fear crossing into our country and our backyard to blow us all up.

[roody]

12. sarcasm icon missing????

[EFerrari]

14. Because so many terrorists have crossed the southern border

and blown us up.

They're here ALREADY! Disguised as nannys and gardeners!

:wow:

[pinto]

15. I, for one, don't fear them walking across the Sonoran to blow us all up.

The jobs issue is another matter, given (though I'd refer you to many California growers who depend on migrant labor, legal and illegal, to produce ~60% of our nation's produce.)

My point, and my beef, is conflating terrorism with migrant laborers. They aren't the same thing.

[EFerrari]

17. The Thuggery has conflated and flattened out

all the "threats". That seems to be their gift.

[pinto]

20. And the broader, vaguer their determination of threat becomes, the tighter the knots

they tie.

[geardaddy]

25. You mean I can't cross

with only my MasterCard? I need a Visa?

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

26. You realize, of course, that all 19 9/11 terrorists entered the U.S. LEGALLY, don't you?

Of course you do. Sure. Uh-huh. Otherwise, you'd be a moron, right? :eyes:

[loyalsister]

18. Fear politics

The immigrants coming from South America share pigment characteristics of the stereotypical muslim terrorist.
It makes it easy to take an issue that many people have becomes extremely anxious about thanks to the dilligence of racist organizations and parlay it into all things Republican.

[Heidi]

21. The fewer people living in desperation, the safer I feel.

And no, I don't feel threatened by immigrants, legal or illegal, regardless of their country of origin.

[B Calm]

23. The problem of illegal Immigration grew ten fold under republican

watch. It's funny to hear republicans discuss illegal Immigration. The guest worker program was their idea too. Now they discuss spending billions of tax dollars building a fence along the border. What they fail to tell you is that the fence will have gates to allow their guest workers in.

[Philosoraptor]

24. 21st century slavery is a touchy issue, so they cloak it in paranoia & xenophobia

The people who come here from Mexico are our slaves, the president and his rich buddies need them to make profits skyrocket. But bigotry and fear of dark skinned, swarthy terrorists sneaking in taking all our jobs and raping our women are much sexier fables than mere slavery.

A nice 700 miles fence would cost many billions and that of course means fat cats get fatter, it all works out in the end, whatever that might be.

[Johonny]

27. Oh no not driver license.

What do Republicans think you can't drive a car in the US without a driver license? I figure this is a made up attack subject so people don't ask the obvious question. How the heck do they get a job? Isn't it illegal to hire these people? Didn't I have to fill out a crap load of forms and show a crap load of IDs to prove that I could legally work in the US? If we are dumb enough to let them get live here, get jobs here and end up paying American taxes, well duh they are going to end up driving here.