I'm a smoker. What harm would you like to come to me?

[Dawggie]

So was the oldest living human on earth (until she reached 118, anyway). So was my great grandfather who died at 98 and my grandfather who passed at 92.

On the other side of my family, both who never smoked, my Grams died at 76 and Gramps at 80.

Some people are of weaker stock than others. Smoking just weeds out the genetically inferior.

Isn't it fun to have someone to hate?

[rubberducky]

1. Hope that suit you have on is asbestos!

[Tesha]

184. No, smoking and asbestos react synergistically to produce mesothelioma.

> Hope that suit you have on is asbestos!

No, smoking and asbestos react synergistically to
produce mesothelioma.

o http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesothelioma

Seriously, OP, we don't want any harm to come to you.

But for your own benefit and ours, you should stop
smoking.

Tesha

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

2. I smoke too----- we will all be shipped to Molokai soon.

At least the weather is good there.

[elehhhhna]

26. Let's go NOW!

[comradebillyboy]

123. Go to Turkey or Greece everyone smokes everywhere

I was in the no smoking section of the food court in the Ataturk International Airport in Istanbul. 4 tables in the middle of the food court with a little sign that said no smoking. the Turks are very courteous however and don't blow smoke at you. The only places where you couldn't smoke were in Hajia Sophia, the Blue Mosque, Topkapi Palace and a few other places major historical importance.

I had a great time there, great food and the Turks brew really good beer despite being Muslims and were all quite nice and friendly. I recommend Istanbul to all smokers who like to have a cig with dinner or drinks. You won't get hassled there. The biggest health risks are the insane traffic (imagine 3000 yr old city with 13,000,000 population) and PKK terrorists.

[ColbertWatcher]

3. Do to you? None...

I wish you a long, healthy life as you watch all your loved ones suffer from the second-hand smoke spewing from your pie hole.

[lonestarnot]

6. How do you know he doesn't take his pie hole outside to smoke?

[shireen]

54. yes, smokers should be allowed to smoke. It's their choice.

People who do not want to be exposed to smoke have just as much right to be protected from it.

It's possible for both to co-exist on the same planet.

[ColbertWatcher]

92. How do you know he does take his pie hole outside? n/t

[lonestarnot]

134. You convicted before you asked or presented a case.

[Dawggie]

7. So you wish "all my loved ones suffer?" Damn... That's nasty.

I live alone. They can't suffer for my sins so is there another ill wish you want to send my way?

[ColbertWatcher]

94. You want more ill?

So you wish "all my loved ones suffer?" Damn... That's nasty.
Posted by Dawggie
I live alone. They can't suffer for my sins so is there another ill wish you want to send my way?

How about, I wish that you live in the vacuum you already believe you do live in?

Is that good enough?

[Dawggie]

164. You must be a terribly unhappy or unbusy person to wish all that ill...

[Djinn]

52. wont do more harm than

the exhaust spewing from your car, nor the pollution spewing from industry.

[Two Americas]

83. that would take some courage

Actually going after the people who are really killing us would take some courage and might put some of the do-gooders at personal risk. Much more satisfying to beat up on smokers, just as the person too cowardly to take on his abusive boss instead kicks his dog when he gets home.

Smoke free gulags. Who could be opposed to that? I can't wait. If that isn't progress, what is?

[ColbertWatcher]

96. Aww...

that would take some courage
Posted by Two Americas
"Much more satisfying to beat up on smokers..."
Imagine discussing smokers in a thread about smokers.

[gaspee]

4. LOL

I smoke too. I like smoking. My 88 YO grandmother smokes. Not like she used to, but she still lights up a couple of times a day.

I hope you are wearing flame retardant.

[LakeSamish706]

5. My response to your post is; If you smoke thats your business, however...

if you smoke and effect my health with second hand smoke, I do have a problem.

[Dawggie]

11. Chances are, we don't even live in the same state much the less the same house.

I would suggest that if you're genetics are predisposed to acquiring cancer by walking past me on the street as I puff a cigarette that you either wear a mask or never go outside. The emissions from cars is far worse. If you don't believe me, sit in your garage for a couple of hours with your car running.

[onehandle]

17. Cars provide transportation.

What do cigarettes provide?

[Dawggie]

23. Enjoyment. Relaxaton.

Want one? Seems as if you could use one. O maybe a fattie? A martoonie?

[onehandle]

29. Get a prescription for Atavan.

Most doctors will give it out without a second thought.

Relaxes you and give your a mild sense of enjoyment.

[AZ Criminal JD]

34. Trying to push precription drugs. Classic.

[Hannah Bell]

42. and that's another thing. all them prescription drugs...

are in our water now, & killing fish. what about MY rights? i don't wanna be drinking someone's second-hand tranqs & birth control! what about the FISH, for chrissake!

Selfish druggies.

[onehandle]

45. Drugs are gooooood.

Have one. So easy to get. So easy to take.

Like cigarettes.

Ahhh.

[Hannah Bell]

47. BUT THE FISH!

[onehandle]

48. Omega 3s are good for you.

Drugs not so much.

Like cigarettes. Just another drug. Not so good for you.

[Hannah Bell]

57. Your pissed-out estrogen ain't so good for the fish, though.

Promotes tumors.

It's what's for dinner.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/project/0508/14/Z04-275435.htm

[onehandle]

62. You've convinced me. Drugs are bad.

No more nicotine ever!

[Hannah Bell]

65. great, but...

your other meds & your vehicle are still affecting my health second-hand. and i'm still morally outraged. cause it makes me feel good.

[onehandle]

72. More is bad.

I'm not on drugs. I ride my bike to work.

Now if only people wouldn't introduce Nicotine into my environment.

Deal?

[Hannah Bell]

82. i'm sure if i try hard enough...

i can find some way your personal habits affect my well-being; theoretically, that is.

[Dawggie]

165. How do you handle fumes from internal combustian engines when you ride?

Or do you prefer a car's exhaust yo s sniff of tobacco?

Do you pass a lot of smokers on your bike? Or do you pass/get passed by a lot of vehicles? (gee. Let me guess.

It's just more fun and socially acceptable to damn me (the smoker you love to hate).

[onehandle]

176. Cars provide transportation.

What do cigarettes provide?

Oh, wait. We covered that.

You've gone back one of your earlier weak arguments.

Well, I've got to get ready for work.

At my office building where smoking is not allowed within 150 feet of the doorways.

When I look outside and see smokers across the street, freezing their asses off, puffing away in the park, where children play, I'll think of you.

[spacelady]

122. Hi bamalib! Big welcome to you, I live in bama too!

I like your style.

[AZ Criminal JD]

145. Thanks, I am in Bham. Whereabouts are you?

[Dawggie]

166. I'm in Hsv...

Just about the only area in AL to be Democratic in the state. Probably because of NASA and the fact that we are pretty much the Eastern Silicon vally.

[spacelady]

264. Just north of Mobile, in the town of Satsuma.

Originally from Nebraska, been in Bama 10 years, I like living here. Mardi Gras in Mobile is pretty radical. :D

[Dawggie]

38. Please see post 20. Link below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2794563&mesg_id=2794680

[onehandle]

43. You're already on a drug.

What's one more.

Atavan won't hurt you in the long run.

C'mon. Have one. What's another drug.

Embrace the sweet feeling.

[Dawggie]

60. Atavan contradictions:

Most adverse reactions to benzodiazepines, including CNS effects and respiratory depression, are dose dependent, with more severe effects occurring with high doses.

In a sample of about 3500 patients treated for anxiety, the most frequent adverse reaction to Ativan (lorazepam) was sedation (15.9%), followed by dizziness (6.9%), weakness (4.2%), and unsteadiness (3.4%). The incidence of sedation and unsteadiness increased with age.

Other adverse reactions to benzodiazepines, including lorazepam are fatigue, drowsiness, amnesia, memory impairment, confusion, disorientation, depression, unmasking of depression, disinhibition, euphoria, suicidal ideation/attempt, ataxia, asthenia, extrapyramidal symptoms, convulsions/seizures tremor, vertigo, eye-function/visual disturbance (including diplopia and blurred vision), dysarthria/slurred speech, change in libido, impotence, decreased orgasm; headache, coma; respiratory depression, apnea, worsening of sleep apnea, worsening of obstructive pulmonary disease; gastrointestinal symptoms including nausea, change in appetite, constipation, jaundice, increase in bilirubin, increase in liver transaminases, increase in alkaline phosphatase; hypersensitivity reactions, anaphylactic/oid reactions; dermatological symptoms, allergic skin reactions, alopecia; SIADH, hyponatremia; thrombocytopenia, agranulocytosis, pancytopenia; hypothermia; and autonomic manifestations.

Paradoxical reactions, including anxiety, excitation, agitation, hostility, aggression, rage, sleep disturbances/insomnia, sexual arousal, and hallucinations may occur. Small decreases in blood pressure and hypotension may occur but are usually not clinically significant, probably being related to the relief of anxiety produced by Ativan (lorazepam).


Clinically Significant Drug Interactions

The benzodiazepines, including Ativan (lorazepam), produce increased CNS-depressant effects when administered with other CNS depressants such as alcohol, barbiturates, antipsychotics, sedative/hypnotics, anxiolytics, antidepressants, narcotic analgesics, sedative antihistamines, anticonvulsants, and anesthetics.

Concomitant use of clozapine and lorazepam may produce marked sedation, excessive salivation, hypotension, ataxia, delirium, and respiratory arrest.

Concurrent administration of lorazepam with valproate results in increased plasma concentrations and reduced clearance of lorazepam. Lorazepam dosage should be reduced to approximately 50% when coadministered with valproate.

Concurrent administration of lorazepam with probenecid may result in a more rapid onset or prolonged effect of lorazepam due to increased half-life and decreased total clearance. Lorazepam dosage needs to be reduced by approximately 50% when coadministered with probenecid.

The effects of probenecid and valproate on lorazepam may be due to inhibition of glucuronidation.

Administration of theophylline or aminophylline may reduce the sedative effects of benzodiazepines, including lorazepam.

[onehandle]

67. Ooh. Drugs are bad.

Luckily no one sprays drugs like Atavan into my environment.

Nicotine however...

[Hannah Bell]

69. ahh but they do.

don't drink the water.

[Dawggie]

75. (They're in the fish you eat, the water you drink and bathe in...)

But we're AMERICANS!!!! We luvs us sum pharmaceuticals! Theze mummy's little helpers!

(Take a piece of your hair and have it analyzed and I'll bet you even find mercury)

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

125. You mean Ativan?

Benzos are nasty things to fuck with. I would rather take a cigarette addiction over benzodiazepines.

[onehandle]

194. Oops. Spelled it wrong.

I don't ingest drugs like nicotine and "benzos."

If smokers just took pills to relax, they wouldn't be introducing their drug into the adults and children around them.

A drug addict should be more responsible with their habit.

Embrace the sweet release.

Relax.

[notadmblnd]

179. LOL

SIDE EFFECTS

Most adverse reactions to benzodiazepines, including CNS effects and respiratory depression, are dose dependent, with more severe effects occurring with high doses.

In a sample of about 3500 patients treated for anxiety, the most frequent adverse reaction to Ativan (lorazepam) was sedation (15.9%), followed by dizziness (6.9%), weakness (4.2%), and unsteadiness (3.4%). The incidence of sedation and unsteadiness increased with age.

Other adverse reactions to benzodiazepines, including lorazepam are fatigue, drowsiness, amnesia, memory impairment, confusion, disorientation, depression, unmasking of depression, disinhibition, euphoria, suicidal ideation/attempt, ataxia, asthenia, extrapyramidal symptoms, convulsions/seizures tremor, vertigo, eye-function/visual disturbance (including diplopia and blurred vision), dysarthria/slurred speech, change in libido, impotence, decreased orgasm; headache, coma; respiratory depression, apnea, worsening of sleep apnea, worsening of obstructive pulmonary disease; gastrointestinal symptoms including nausea, change in appetite, constipation, jaundice, increase in bilirubin, increase in liver transaminases, increase in alkaline phosphatase; hypersensitivity reactions, anaphylactic/oid reactions; dermatological symptoms, allergic skin reactions, alopecia; SIADH, hyponatremia; thrombocytopenia, agranulocytosis, pancytopenia; hypothermia; and autonomic manifestations.

Paradoxical reactions, including anxiety, excitation, agitation, hostility, aggression, rage, sleep disturbances/insomnia, sexual arousal, and hallucinations may occur. Small decreases in blood pressure and hypotension may occur but are usually not clinically significant, probably being related to the relief of anxiety produced by Ativan (lorazepam).
DRUG INTERACTIONS

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/loraz_ad.htm

Yeah, I'll take that over cigarettes any day. :rofl:

[onehandle]

192. But on the up side...

If smokers just took pills to relax, they wouldn't be introducing their drug into the adults and children around them.

A drug addict should be more responsible with their habit.

Embrace the sweet release.

Relax.

[notadmblnd]

195. Nobody gets out alive

and the majority of those who do go, don't get to do it without suffering no matter how smug and self righteous they are.

Peace to you too.

[onehandle]

196. Atrophy is awesome!

I enjoy it every minute of every day.

Peace.

[tabasco]

51. "It will never happen to me."

I suppose that's what they all think.



I personally don't care if you smoke or not but don't try to lay a guilt trip on people who tell you the truth about it.

IT'S FUCKING STUPID!

[Dawggie]

64. Not fopr the majority of people. Otherwise we would have all been dead before WWII.

Come to think about it, guns and wars are more easily proved to have killed many more people than tobacco.

[Hannah Bell]

80. easily. but to rail self-righteously about guns & war...

doesn't provide the delicious sensation of superiority that bitching about smokers does--when the smokers are mostly in the lower half of the income distribution.

class is about who gets to look down on whom.

[Hannah Bell]

21. i smoke...

but i don't drive. i'm sick of all you drivers polluting my air. you can avoid my smoke, but i can't avoid your exhaust fumes.

i can't believe how self-righteous some people can be about petty crap. btw, the 2nd-hand smoke studies? bogosity. worry about combustible vehicles & plastics if ya wanna worry.

[Djinn]

66. bingo

I can CHOOSE not to smoke, I can CHOOSE to not go into smokey bars, I cn CHOOSE not to travel in a car with a smoker.

Yet the environemntal pollution which is FAR FAR FAR more deadly than "passive smoking" will always be ignored because the people responsibile for THAT have more political leverage than the average smoker.

I don't need the nanny state to protect from things I can protect myself from with the utmost ease, it'd be nice if they could do something about the carcinogens I have no CHOICE but to breathe in.

Not one single person (except me) is harmed when I smoke. I do so either in my car or my house which no-one is ever forced to enter or standing in the CBD surrounded by CO spewing cars.

[LakeSamish706]

32. Oh, and for the record I am a reformed smoker of approx. 28 years. n/t

[LanternWaste]

183. Does your cigarette get you to work like your cars does?

Does your cigarette get you to work like your cars does? Can it fit a baby seat in the back and a trunkload of groceries? Can your smoke transport foodstuffs and durable goods across the country? Does the nicotine allow parents to get their kids to school?

Does your cigarette do *anything* other than allow you to get your fix? If no, then the analogy is quite invalid.

I'm a twenty-year plus smoker, and I've learned that there's simply no defense for our addiction. We twist logic, misuse analogies, and cry "fascism" when much laxer rules are applied to us that are currently applied to the environment as a whole. And as weak as those rules are, we still raise our fists in righteous indignation when anyone even mentions clean air, yelling "well cars do it too!" But little do we realize that cars do so much more than simply spill toxins into the air like our cigarettes do.

Or, as Shakespeare once wrote, "Will you yield, and this avoid? Or guilty in defense, be thus destroyed?"

[Bake]

209. Actually, my cigarettes DO get me to work, thank you.

It takes several of them, with coffee, to get my dead ass going in the morning. Otherwise I wouldn't make it to work.

I have a couple more on the commute in to my office. Keeps me nice and sane, so I don't go off in a "road rage" incident at some dumbass driver in the next lane. So I arrive at work in a nice, positive mood.

By the way, don't bitch about me running up your healthcare costs. I haven't missed a day of work in four years.

:hi:

Bake

[LanternWaste]

218. You should have more faith in yourself.

You'd make it to work w/o your smokes. You should have more faith in yourself-- either that, or disavow yourself of invalid analogies. :)


We don't need them, you know-- we simply want them. Spin it how you want-- we'd live without them (as I'm sure there was a time in our lives we already did)

Road rage? Nice, positive moods are always your choice, not anyone else's-- regardless of nicotine. :hi:

you haven't missed a day of work in four years... yet. But at the rate we're smoking, it's only a matter of time...

[Fridays Child]

12. Second that. eom

[AZ Criminal JD]

31. Do you have a problem with second-hand car exhuast?

You are breathing it in as you drive or walk down the street. People don't seem to have a problem with that -- let me guess, it is because most people have a car. If you think it is not a problem or you think cigarette smoke is worse, I challenge you to put your face a foot away from a car exhaust for a half-hour and I will breathe in tobacco smoke for a half-hour and then I will call for someone to take away your dead body.

[Hannah Bell]

49. It's because...

...once smoking, once a habit of the upper crust, became mainly a habit of the lower orders, selective outrage came into fashion.

Same thing with excess weight. It's a class thang.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. If it's indoors in a restaurant, yes.

[AZ Criminal JD]

85. Unless your restaurant is in a vacuum the car exhaust comes in

off the street. Or maybe your restaurant in out in the middle of some field somewhere. Do you think because you are indoors the air is purified? Sorry, it is not. Just because they have put on converters on cars and you no longer can see the exhaust doesn't mean it isn't there. There are millions of cars, and far worse buses, which pour out tens of thousands of tons of car exhaust every day. But of course you drove your car to your purified restaurant so you don't care about that. Why do you think asthma rates have risen in children even though smoking rates have dropped?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. Are you comparing car exhaust that drifts inside a restaurant...

through a doorway with somebody actually smoking inside the restaurant?

I hope not, because that would be stupid.

"Why do you think asthma rates have risen in children even though smoking rates have dropped?"

Because of legislation that tightly restricts car exhaust. And there should be the same for cigarettes.

[AZ Criminal JD]

112. So you are saying restricting car exhaust has caused asthma

rates to rise???? If car exhaust is tightly restricted, as you say, go breathe the exhaust pipe by a running car. Since it is tightly restricted you won't have problem, I'm sure.

[Djinn]

124. well yeah it would be

given that many people have died from exhaust inhalation and yet despite the apparently overwhelming evidence for the dangers of ETS not one person on earth has had it written as a cause of death.

[Mojorabbit]

161. Not according to this study

The study performed by doctors in Scotland detected a significant increase in symptoms of allergic asthma and levels of antibodies to environmental allergic factors, such as dust mites, pets, and air pollutants over the three decades. Importantly, the researchers noted that there was an increase in the signs and symptoms of allergy, even in people without a family history of allergy!
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9087

This planet is full of pollutants. People want to pick on one while ignoring a gazillion others that are worse.

[meg]

8. No harm. My parents both smoked

Everyone was pretending not to know that smoking caused problems in the 50s when I was a small child. My parents were good people. My mother died of lung cancer and my father of brain cancer when he was 51. My sister and I both have asthma.

I must say smoking has done great harm to me and my family. But, why should I hurt you?

[LakeSamish706]

9. Just for comparison, I will say that my wife's grandfather smoked for approx.

70 years of his 1 month short of 100 so....

[JuniperLea]

10. I wish you well... and as an ex-smoker...

I can relate. I fully support your right to smoke. My great-granny lived to be 99.75... I hope my 20+ years of smoking don't account for much with those genes:)

:toast:

Even though I really hate the smell these days, I still get those thoughts about lighting up! Weird, huh?

What did it for me was the thought of supporting the tobacco industry, and their greedy, evil ways. They put all sorts of extra crap in cigs to keep you hooked. Roll your own! They taste better and there are fewer chemicals.

The X household has saved thousands of dollars too.

Still, I support you... I don't hate you:)

[Burma Jones]

13. My 100 year old Grandma quit smoking when she was 78

I quit 10 years ago, mostly because I didn't want my kids thinking it was OK to smoke.

Of course, I had to pour liquids into a hole in my Dad's belly while he underwent treatment for throat cancer. Fortunately, he's been cancer free for 4 and a half years now, but that pretty much killed any remaining desire to smoke.

But, I wish you a long and happy life.

[hlthe2b]

14. So, all those who died after your passive smoke exposure deserved

to die, because they were of "weaker stock?" :wtf:

What a totally warped, selfish (beyond comprehension), and disgusting attitude. Ummm, I guess you don't believe in bad karma, because bud, you are earning some....:eyes:

[Dawggie]

20. I don't buy it. If second hand smoke was as deadly as some like to believe,

humanity should have ceased to exist 50 years after Raleigh brought tobacco to Europe.

Inhaling tobacco is NOT a death sentence. Pharmaceuticals will kill you much more quickly.

[onehandle]

40. It will assist other ailments to kill you in the long run.

Health Effects of Cigarette Smoking

Smoking harms nearly every organ of the body; causing many diseases and reducing the health of smokers in general.1 The adverse health effects from cigarette smoking account for an estimated 438,000 deaths, or nearly 1 of every 5 deaths, each year in the United States. More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.

Cancer

* Cancer is the second leading cause of death and was among the first diseases causually linked to smoking.
* Smoking causes about 90% of lung cancer deaths in men and almost 80% of lung cancer deaths in women. The risk of dying from lung cancer is more than 23 times higher among men who smoke cigarettes, and about 13 times higher among women who smoke cigarettes compared with never smokers.
* Smoking causes cancers of the bladder, oral cavity, pharynx, larynx (voice box), esophagus, cervix, kidney, lung, pancreas, and stomach, and causes acute myeloid leukemia.
* Rates of cancers related to cigarette smoking vary widely among members of racial/ethnic groups, but are generally highest in African-American men.

Cardiovascular Disease (Heart and Circulatory System)

* Smoking causes coronary heart disease, the leading cause of death in the United States. Cigarette smokers are 2–4 times more likely to develop coronary heart disease than nonsmokers.
* Cigarette smoking approximately doubles a person's risk for stroke.
* Cigarette smoking causes reduced circulation by narrowing the blood vessels (arteries). Smokers are more than 10 times as likely as nonsmokers to develop peripheral vascular disease.
* Smoking causes abdominal aortic aneurysm.

Respiratory Disease and Other Effects

* Cigarette smoking is associated with a tenfold increase in the risk of dying from chronic obstructive lung disease.7 About 90% of all deaths from chronic obstructive lung diseases are attributable to cigarette smoking.
* Cigarette smoking has many adverse reproductive and early childhood effects, including an increased risk for infertility, preterm delivery, stillbirth, low birth weight, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
* Postmenopausal women who smoke have lower bone density than women who never smoked. Women who smoke have an increased risk for hip fracture than never smokers.

[Dawggie]

50. Okay.... Oldest living person ever confirmed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment
http://www.biogs.com/famous/calment.html


Jeanne Louise Calment was born in Arles, France on February 21, 1875 and died on August 4, 1997. That made her 122 years, 164 days old when she passed away - the longest confirmed lifespan.

Madame Calment officially gave up smoking at 117, but resumed having the occasional puff after her 118th birthday.

Well into her hundreds, she drank a glass of port before lunch and another before dinner.

[onehandle]

Oldest living drug addict.

Good for her.

Proof positive that drugs are a good thing for some.

Not so much for me. I'm glad that Meth addicts don't disperse their habit into my environment.

That makes them better citizens in public than smokers.

Have you considered Meth?

[Dawggie]

206. ??? When was the last time a smoker stabbed you for your money so they could buy a pack of smokes?

Would YOU rather go to a social gathering of jonesing meth heads or of smokers?

[AZ Criminal JD]

116. Proof drinking kills

She would have made it to 123 for sure if she never had those drinks of port!

[AZ Criminal JD]

138. Kill you "in the long run"?

I thought we all die in long run. Guess that won't happen to you.

[onehandle]

149. Gotta die from something.

Smoking helps many ailments along with that.

The long run could be 90, 60, 30...

[AZ Criminal JD]

152. Eating helps ailments along also. So does lack of exercise

Let's see your body mass and habits. We can sit back and judge you and determine what bad habits are leading to your demise. But of course you are the one who in a earlier post wanted meth addicts living next to you instead of a smoker. Good luck with that.

[onehandle]

174. Ah, that tired old argument.

When you eat badly and don't exercise it doesn't hurt me.

Smoking sprays poison into the air which does.

And no I wouldn't want a Meth addict living next to me.

And considering the house next door to me burned down last January (true story) because the occupant fell asleep with a cigarette in her hand, I guess smokers could be considered as dangerous as Meth addicts.

Well...They are both addicts. Sad.

[Dawggie]

207. Do you drive? Ever BBQ? Where does your electricity come from?

Have you ever farted? Now THAT's fucking deadly! :)

[hlthe2b]

58. Of course you don't believe it....

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.... :eyes: Welcome to the flat earth society....

[AZ Criminal JD]

126. Spoken like a true pill-popper

[hlthe2b]

131. Since when are we talking pharmaceutical use.... your insult

noted, but ridiculously misplaced. :eyes:

[AZ Criminal JD]

140. Just because you worship Big Phama and everything

they push on people doesn't mean all of us do. The fact you would suggest a pill to relax says it all about your outlook on life. Hope you are not around children.

[hlthe2b]

148. Who the hell are you replying to? I have said NOTHING

about suggesting a pill to relax or anything else. I commented on the OP original discussion of smoking. Good God, if you can't respond to the right thread, perhaps you need to take a break. But, damn it, stop assigning arguments to the wrong poster. Unless you intended to be a jerk, please kindly reply to the right post...

[AZ Criminal JD]

156. You are absolutely right. I apologize. I got the replys mixed up.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

132. Haha@thorazine and methaqualone

[comradebillyboy]

15. smoke away, its your body and your choice

just don't blow smoke in my face. I was a 2 pack a day smoker and I managed to quit. But I don't care if you smoke or not and I really don't wish you any ill fate.

That being said, I think any adult should be free to put anything they want into their own bodies. Heroin, meth, weed, opium, booze. Every adult should have that freedom.

[sam sarrha]

16. that you have to smoke outside to keep us 'inferior weaklings from getting cancer, and stinking up

our hair and clothes

[Auggie]

18. A pack a day at $5.00 multiplied by 365 days...

equals $1825.00. If you count the income tax (.15%) you have to pay on those earning you're up to around $2200 a year you spend on smoking. In five years that comes to $11,000.00. Keep doing the math (add in some lost investment income while you're at it) and over a lifetime you could have saved a lot extra towards retirement.

Some people ARE weaker stock than others. Applies to intelligence, too.

[wuushew]

22. half a million assuming a compounding annual annuity

n=40
i=7%
pv=0
fv=?
pmt=$2,200

[Auggie]

24. Thank you

[Bake]

212. And what about the cost of your liquor/beer/wine? Your FAST FOOD!!!!

Those add up too. Lookit all the money you could have saved.

How I spend my money is my business. Thanks for your concern.

Bake

[Hannah Bell]

25. $2.50 in taxes on each pack = $912/yr.

got kids? we're paying for their schools. no thanks necessary, just kwitcherbitching.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

41. So what? Some spend on cigarettes,some on shoes,some on booze.

As long as no one is being deprived what the heck does the cost matter?

Your math could be applied to any discretionary spending.

[Auggie]

53. You're absolutely right. It's your choice.

[AZ Criminal JD]

113. You can say the same thing about any expense in life

You can eat rice and spam your whole life and save all sorts of money. This saving can also be applied to retirement. What a retirement that will be.

[knitter4democracy]

19. Since I can't breathe around smoke, I must be inferior.

Same with my dad and my kids. Yeah, that old German stock sure is weak, like my dad's cousin on his dad's side who helped Einstein with his math or my brother who started his own American dirt bike company or all of my cousins with Ph.Ds and master's degrees. Weak stock. Definitely. :eyes:

Look, you have the right to smoke in your own home and in places designated for smoking. That's fine. Just please be considerate of those of us with lung problems who literally cannot breathe around your smoke. I can't. My lungs close off, I start wheezing badly, and I start turning blue bit by bit. Your right to smoke ends at my right not to end up in the ER with an oxygen mask.

[Dawggie]

30. You are in a very small minority. Like people with "restless leg syndrome."

So the whole world should adjust their behaviours to compensate for your disability?

[knitter4democracy]

61. Asthma's on the rise. RLS is not (contrary to the ads).

Large segments of certain populations have asthma, and it kills. I'm not saying everyone has to stop smoking period. Just not in smoke-free zones.

[Hannah Bell]

63. well, since smoking's...

been on the decline since the 60's...

it would seem the rise in asthma has other causes.

maybe it's the tripling of motor vehicles.

[knitter4democracy]

74. Sure there are many causes, and we need to work on those, too.

Pollution's the biggest, it seems, from the studies. Still, my stepmom's family had absolutely no asthma in it anywhere when my niece developed it at 15 months. Both of her parents smoke, which isn't really done in my stepmom's family (few smoke). Instead of quitting so their daughter could breathe, they drag her from doctor to doctor, fill her up with steroids and other meds, all in an effort to find a doctor who doesn't tell them to stop smoking.

My dad's parents both smoked, and he has asthma as a little boy. When he started smoking in high school (he was a greaser in the 50s and raced cars) to be cool, he got emphasyma. His cousins, whose parents didn't smoke, never got asthma or emphasyma.

Now, here I am, his daughter, raised in a smoke-free home, raising my kids in a smoke-free home, and my two children have asthma. I had the cough variant for years growing up, and it went full-blown last year, wheezing and all. So, yeah, there have to be other causes than cigarette smoke, but many, many studies say that it's a problem.

All I'm sayin' is be considerate, and don't smoke in smoke-free areas. That's all.

[Hannah Bell]

91. i never did. But I worked at Boeing in the 60's, when smoking...

was mandatory in the white-collar floors. If anyone should have died of second-hand smoke, or dropped dead from asthma, it was those folks.

The outrage about 2nd-hand smoke is moral panic. I'm not promoting smoking or saying it doesn't have ill effects. But the moral outrage in comparison with many worse things is out of proportion.

You won't get 50 responses on a thread about plastic pollution, gmos, 5 million congolese being killed in 5 years, phony drugs for real profits, or such. and certainly not with the tone of personal acrimony peculiar to smoking threads.

[knitter4democracy]

100. I agree with that. I don't get nearly as upset about smoking in real life.

GMOs, don't get me started. Plastic bags? Gah! I hate those things. They're everywhere!

I think you're right that there's a morally superior part to it with some people. I don't feel that way--heck, if I didn't stop breathing around it, I might've started smoking in high school when a few of my friends did. Same with drinking--I can't because of my mom's side of the family being alcoholics (I'm the only one who isn't going back four generations), not because I'm somehow better because I don't drink.

[Bake]

215. It's just so much EASIER to blame the smokers.

The New Lepers. That's us.

Bake

[knitter4democracy]

234. I live in a state where they can smoke in public.

And they do.

I blame mohair when I'm around it and start itching all over and my hands burn, and blame cigarette smoke when someone blows it in my face and I can't breathe. If they want to smoke in their homes, cars, and smoking areas of restaurants (totally legal here), that's fine. I choose not to be near that, as I like oxygen a little too much.

[Dawggie]

204. Many are born with asthma...

Pet dander is a big cause of it. Should we ban our dogs and cats because an unwitting kid might approach the cute puppy or kitten?

[knitter4democracy]

235. We've banned them from restaurants and bars, haven't we?

And your point is . . .

[Lorien]

198. Bullshit; they are among the MAJORITY. Why should the whole world

alter their behavior for your idiotic GOP enabling habit? I think that you do protest too much.

And I don't wish that any harm come to you. Quite the opposite. I hope you gain a little sense before it's too late.

[Dawggie]

208. "idiotic GOP behaviour???" And another dig at my intelligence?

You are no longer invited to my birthday party.

[Djinn]

78. does the same thing happen when you're near roads

Does your right to drive stop at MY right not to breath in YOUR pollution?

Do you eat meat? if so why should people with the misfortune of living near factory farms suffer ill health because YOU want to eat rotten flesh?

You live in the US, why should the rest of the world put up with your disproportionate pollution just so you can have a big screen TV, junk food and oil?

I have no issue with self righteous anti-smokers as long as nothing in THEIR lifestyle causes health problems for others - however not one of these people exists

[knitter4democracy]

86. So, you'd rather be dead from pollution and smoking together?

I eat locally raised meat with a low environmental impact. I drive a car with low emissions for its class, and I do my best to lower my family's environmental impact. That, and we can't use many chemicals in the house due to the asthma anyway.

Why not work together for clean air and the rights of smokers to smoke on their personal property and in designated areas?

[Djinn]

99. Don't be facetious

I don't recall wishing for your death at any stage, what I asked is why you feel other people should moderate their behaviour for YOUR health but they should continue to be adversely effected by yours.

When YOU work for the law to confine drivers and meat eaters (and the enviro pollution they cause) to remain in designated areas or on their property I'll agree with you.

[knitter4democracy]

104. I. Can't. Breathe. You do get that, right?

Any pollution out there has been proven to mostly be a slow killer. That gives us time to fight it, change behaviors, and do our best to clean up our act.

Smoking, though, is another thing. It's immediate for those of us who cannot breathe around it. I watched my dad turn blue at a football game and have to leave because a couple of guys lit up right in front of him. They had the right to smoke there, as it was years ago and a high school game, but he didn't have the right to breathe. We had to leave and get him to the car where he could catch his breath. I've gasped for air myself because of someone smoking, and yes, that was the immediate cause. Right then, his smoke didn't stay with him but blew into my face. I choked and gagged and wheezed and dropped to my knees in front of everyone with my husband ready to take call for an ambulance.

At least he got to smoke, though, right? His immediate need for nicotine sure was more important than mine for oxygen. :eyes:

[Djinn]

108. NEITHER can those living

near oil refineries or factory farms but when it's YOUR life it's important, when it's the lives of the poor people who live near the pollution spewing factories that make YOUR life more comfortable then it's something that's not so urgent.

Bourgeois self obsession never will go out of fashion

[knitter4democracy]

120. Why are you making this an either-or situation?

Either pollution or smoking? That's ridiculous! And how do you know I haven't fought against local pollution? I live in Michigan, for crying out loud. There are many of us here extremely concerned with local pollution issues, especially those of our air and waterways.

Oh, and I've been poor and lived near pollution spewing factories, but then, that doesn't fit with your view of me, does it? I've lived on farms, I've lived in an inner ring suburb, I've lived in the country, I've lived in the city by a Superfund site, and now I live in an older suburb of a small city not far from a freeway spur (wind blows it the other way, so most days, the only stench we get is if the cereal factory burned a batch again). I've had asthma in all of those. Hay gives me an asthma attack, cigarette smoke makes it so I can't breathe, and oil wells give me a headache--I've dealt with them all.

Get off your freakin' high horse and do the liberal thing and try to find a solution that works best for everyone rather than sticking to strawman arguments.

[Djinn]

127. YOUR the only one with a high horse dude

You insist that it's ETS causing your health issues yet them claim to have lived near other pollutants - how on EARTH can you attribute your asthma to ETS and not genetic or other enviro factors?

I'm on no high horse - I drive, I eat factory meat and I smoke. Just find it hilarious that you clearly think OTHER people should change their life because you feel that smoking caused your asthma yet admit YOU do plenty of things that contribute to the ill health of others.

Here's a solution that works best for everyone - if you don't like smoke no-one is forcing you to come into my house, my car or any restaurant/bar that allows patrons to smoke.

MY smoking causes FAR less problems to other people than YOUR driving does, than YOUR American lifestyle does.

BTW I'm not a Liberal and would rather chew glass than be one.

[knitter4democracy]

136. I didn't say smoking caused my asthma--just that I can't breathe around smoke.

My asthma was most likely caused by genetic factors more than anything, and the mono I had last year didn't help matters, either. I thought I had made that clear in my posts, but apparently not. The underlying issue, asthma, was not caused by cigarette smoke in my case, but immediate problems breathing around cigarette smoke are.

I have also said repeatedly here and on other threads that I think smokers have the right to smoke on their own private property, in their cars, and in designated smoking areas (like bars and restaurants). I choose not to go there, and that's my choice. You choose to smoke there, and that's your choice. That's fine.

I get testy, though, when smokers maintain they have the right to smoke everywhere and that their smoking doesn't hurt anyone or very many people. Of course it does. Asthma and lung problems are on the rise, and cigarette smoke makes those problems worse. Your right to smoke on your property is one thing. Your "right" to smoke in all public areas, around kids and adults with compromised health issues, is another.

I like to knit. I take my knitting in public with me. If someone tells me they're allergic to what I'm knitting with (usually wool but sometimes other fibers), I put it away and wash my hands. It's polite, and I don't want someone having an allergic reaction because of something I did. I don't take my dog with me into restaurants or shops because I know people are allergic to dogs or scared of them. I don't carry my cat in my purse for the same reason. Why would I deliberately make it hard for someone to breathe?

[Hannah Bell]

142. I don't know what the law is where you live...

but where i live, smoking's been banned in public & commercial establishments for years, except for bars.

but that's not good enough for the nazis: now it will be the bars, even when the owners & clientele are smokers, & our own backyards.

I don't know where you're meeting all these smokers blowing smoke in your face. Where I live, you'd have to really work to get smoked at.

[knitter4democracy]

186. It's against the MI Constitution to prohibit smoking in restaurants and bars.

We passed a law awhile back, and it was struck down. There's talk of amending the Constitution, but it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. So, some restaurants around here have gone smoke-free in response to the popular referendum that passed, but others have stayed as they are or even gone pretty much all smoking (small non-smoking area with no separate exhaust).

The county just passed a law that there can't be smoking in public places, and there's talk of a recall of the county commissioners who voted for it. It's been a nasty fight here locally.

[Djinn]

158. YOU DO JUST THAT

Why would I deliberately make it hard for someone to breathe?

Because you're too lazy to walk like most car owners I guess

[knitter4democracy]

187. I have allergies and asthma. You obviously don't get it.

Car exhaust is rarely an immediate source of difficulty breathing. I've been in Third World countries with worse exhaust and pollution problems, and I never had the massive asthma attacks I get when someone blows cigarrette smoke in my face. I'm not saying pollution isn't a problem, just not the immediate problem that cigarette smoke is.

Then again, why am I arguing with an addict? :eyes: I'd probably get pretty damn testy if people told me I could never knit in public, too.

[Dawggie]

210. Now, if 50-75% of the stands had to leave due to the guys smoking

I think you would have a point.

Why is it that today you can't smoke in a closed public arena while you are watching motocross, a tractor pull and monster trucks? Wazzup with that? :)

[knitter4democracy]

236. There were always smoking zones when I was growing up.

You can smoke in public in Michigan, so most places like that have smoking and non-smoking sections.

Oh, and thanks for telling me that my need to breathe, which makes me a minority somehow, is superceeded by his need for a smoke. There were areas he could've gone to, but instead, he walked along and smoked. That was perfectly legal, btw, but more than a little annoying as my lips started turning blue from lack of oxygen.

[Dawggie]

246. I didn't say that.

I did say (in a way) that many people with allergies should try to avoid situations that would aggravate their allergy. If you are allergic to peanuts, don't go to a restaurant that cooks with peanut oil.

[cynatnite]

27. Smoking killed my stepdad at 48...

I can't count the wasted bodies I've seen while working in the medical field. They are nothing but skin and bones. They can't talk and can't move. They lay there wasting away while we care for them. Many of them were less than 60. Smoking killed them, too.

I smoked up until Nov. last year. It was killing me and I didn't like how my smoking affected those around me. I was fortunate to have found a way to quit and not pick it up again.

Watching people die from it is hardly something I can joke about since I think I was pretty damn close to being one of them...

Hell, I could still be one of them. Peter Jennings had been an ex-smoker for several years when lung cancer got him. Still, I'm glad I don't have the burden any more.

[Hannah Bell]

36. Overwork killed my granpa at 45, my

cousin at 56. Neither of them smoked a minute.

The French, Japanese & Koreans outsmoke us by far but have less heart disease & lung cancers.

I'm gonna die of phoney-issue-itis, the way things look at present.

[cynatnite]

79. All those folks who I watched die, including my stepdad, wouldn't call this a phony issue...

You might want to check what the ingredients are for foreign cigarette makers. They don't put the poisons in their smokes that the US companies do here. That might explain why there is such a major disparity. Hell, the cig. makers here in the US tell the truth about as well as bush and cheney do.

I'm surprised to see this kind of RW thinking here at DU.

The statistics at the following link would greatly disagree with your position. In fact, scientists (similar to the scientists who study global warming and evolution) will tell you that smoking is a major killer.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/tobaccostatistics/a/SGR2004.htm

Of course...there are all the wonderful additions to the tobacco that is inhaled...

The list of 599 additives approved by the US Government for use in the manufacture of cigarettes is something every smoker should see. Submitted by the five major American cigarette companies to the Dept. of Health and Human Services in April of 1994, this list of ingredients had long been kept a secret.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm

Acetanisole
Acetic Acid
Acetoin
Acetophenone
6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
Acetylpyrazine
2-Acetylpyridine
3-Acetylpyridine
2-Acetylthiazole
Aconitic Acid
dl-Alanine
Alfalfa Extract
Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
Allyl Hexanoate
Allyl Ionone
Almond Bitter Oil
Ambergris Tincture
Ammonia
Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
Ammonium Sulfide
Amyl Alcohol
Amyl Butyrate
Amyl Formate
Amyl Octanoate
alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
Amyris Oil
trans-Anethole
Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
Anise
Anise Star, Extract and Oils
Anisyl Acetate
Anisyl Alcohol
Anisyl Formate
Anisyl Phenylacetate
Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
1-Arginine
Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
Ascorbic Acid
1-Asparagine Monohydrate
1-Aspartic Acid
Balsam Peru and Oil
Basil Oil
Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
Beeswax White
Beet Juice Concentrate
Benzaldehyde
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
Benzoin Resin
Benzophenone
Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Butyrate
Benzyl Cinnamate
Benzyl Propionate
Benzyl Salicylate
Bergamot Oil
Bisabolene
Black Currant Buds Absolute
Borneol
Bornyl Acetate
Buchu Leaf Oil
1,3-Butanediol
2,3-Butanedione
1-Butanol
2-Butanone
4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
Butyl Acetate
Butyl Butyrate
Butyl Butyryl Lactate
Butyl Isovalerate
Butyl Phenylacetate
Butyl Undecylenate
3-Butylidenephthalide
Butyric Acid]
Cadinene
Caffeine
Calcium Carbonate
Camphene
Cananga Oil
Capsicum Oleoresin
Caramel Color
Caraway Oil
Carbon Dioxide
Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
Carob Bean and Extract
beta-Carotene
Carrot Oil
Carvacrol
4-Carvomenthenol
1-Carvone
beta-Caryophyllene
beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
Cassia Bark Oil
Cassie Absolute and Oil
Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
Cedar Leaf Oil
Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
Cedrol
Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
Cellulose Fiber
Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
Chicory Extract
Chocolate
Cinnamaldehyde
Cinnamic Acid
Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
Cinnamyl Acetate
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cinnamyl Cinnamate
Cinnamyl Isovalerate
Cinnamyl Propionate
Citral
Citric Acid
Citronella Oil
dl-Citronellol
Citronellyl Butyrate
itronellyl Isobutyrate
Civet Absolute
Clary Oil
Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
Cocoa
Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
Coconut Oil
Coffee
Cognac White and Green Oil
Copaiba Oil
Coriander Extract and Oil
Corn Oil
Corn Silk
Costus Root Oil
Cubeb Oil
Cuminaldehyde
para-Cymene
1-Cysteine
Dandelion Root Solid Extract
Davana Oil
2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
delta-Decalactone
gamma-Decalactone
Decanal
Decanoic Acid
1-Decanol
2-Decenal
Dehydromenthofurolactone
Diethyl Malonate
Diethyl Sebacate
2,3-Diethylpyrazine
Dihydro Anethole
5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
Dill Seed Oil and Extract
meta-Dimethoxybenzene
para-Dimethoxybenzene
2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
Dimethyl Succinate
3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
delta-Dodecalactone
gamma-Dodecalactone
para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Ethyl Acetate
Ethyl Acetoacetate
Ethyl Alcohol
Ethyl Benzoate
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Cinnamate
Ethyl Decanoate
Ethyl Fenchol
Ethyl Furoate
Ethyl Heptanoate
Ethyl Hexanoate
Ethyl Isovalerate
Ethyl Lactate
Ethyl Laurate
Ethyl Levulinate
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
Ethyl Myristate
Ethyl Nonanoate
Ethyl Octadecanoate
Ethyl Octanoate
Ethyl Oleate
Ethyl Palmitate
Ethyl Phenylacetate
Ethyl Propionate
Ethyl Salicylate
Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
Ethyl Valerate
Ethyl Vanillin
2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
4-Ethylguaiacol
para-Ethylphenol
3-Ethylpyridine
Eucalyptol
Farnesol
D-Fenchone
Fennel Sweet Oil
Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute
Fig Juice Concentrate
Food Starch Modified
Furfuryl Mercaptan
4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One
Galbanum Oil
Genet Absolute
Gentian Root Extract
Geraniol
Geranium Rose Oil
Geranyl Acetate
Geranyl Butyrate
Geranyl Formate
Geranyl Isovalerate
Geranyl Phenylacetate
Ginger Oil and Oleoresin
1-Glutamic Acid
1-Glutamine
Glycerol
Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated
Grape Juice Concentrate
Guaiac Wood Oil
Guaiacol
Guar Gum
2,4-Heptadienal
gamma-Heptalactone
Heptanoic Acid
2-Heptanone
3-Hepten-2-One
2-Hepten-4-One
4-Heptenal
trans -2-Heptenal
Heptyl Acetate
omega-6-Hexadecenlactone
gamma-Hexalactone
Hexanal
Hexanoic Acid
2-Hexen-1-Ol
3-Hexen-1-Ol
cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate
2-Hexenal
3-Hexenoic Acid
trans-2-Hexenoic Acid
cis-3-Hexenyl Formate
Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Hexyl Acetate
Hexyl Alcohol
Hexyl Phenylacetate
1-Histidine
Honey
Hops Oil
Hydrolyzed Milk Solids
Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins
5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta- Lactone
4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone
2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone
2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde
4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone
Hydroxycitronellal
6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane
4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
Hyssop Oil
Immortelle Absolute and Extract
alpha-Ionone
beta-Ionone
alpha-Irone
Isoamyl Acetate
Isoamyl Benzoate
Isoamyl Butyrate
Isoamyl Cinnamate
Isoamyl Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate
Isoamyl Isovalerate
Isoamyl Octanoate
Isoamyl Phenylacetate
Isobornyl Acetate
Isobutyl Acetate
Isobutyl Alcohol
Isobutyl Cinnamate
Isobutyl Phenylacetate
Isobutyl Salicylate
2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine
alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol
Isobutyraldehyde
Isobutyric Acid
d,l-Isoleucine
alpha-Isomethylionone
2-Isopropylphenol
Isovaleric Acid
Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil
Kola Nut Extract
Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin
Lactic Acid
Lauric Acid
Lauric Aldehyde
Lavandin Oil
Lavender Oil
Lemon Oil and Extract
Lemongrass Oil
1-Leucine
Levulinic Acid
Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract and Powder
Lime Oil
Linalool
Linalool Oxide
Linalyl Acetate
Linden Flowers
Lovage Oil And Extract
1-Lysine]
Mace Powder, Extract and Oil
Magnesium Carbonate
Malic Acid
Malt and Malt Extract
Maltodextrin
Maltol
Maltyl Isobutyrate
Mandarin Oil
Maple Syrup and Concentrate
Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil
para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One
Menthol
Menthone
Menthyl Acetate
dl-Methionine
Methoprene
2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol
2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol
para-Methoxybenzaldehyde
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One
4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone
Methoxypyrazine
Methyl 2-Furoate
Methyl 2-Octynoate
Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone
Methyl Anisate
Methyl Anthranilate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Cinnamate
Methyl Dihydrojasmonate
Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated
Methyl Isovalerate
Methyl Linoleate (48%)
Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture
Methyl Naphthyl Ketone
Methyl Nicotinate
Methyl Phenylacetate
Methyl Salicylate
Methyl Sulfide
3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone
4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone
5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal
5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarboxaldehyde
6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One
2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde
5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One
1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene
4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One
2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde
6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One
4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol
4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole
Methyl-alpha-Ionone
Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid
4-Methylacetophenone
para-Methylanisole
alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate
alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol
2-Methylbutyraldehyde
3-Methylbutyraldehyde
2-Methylbutyric Acid
alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde
Methylcyclopentenolone
2-Methylheptanoic Acid
2-Methylhexanoic Acid
3-Methylpentanoic Acid
4-Methylpentanoic Acid
2-Methylpyrazine
5-Methylquinoxaline
2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One
(Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)
3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde
Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate
2-Methylvaleric Acid
Mimosa Absolute and Extract
Molasses Extract and Tincture
Mountain Maple Solid Extract
Mullein Flowers
Myristaldehyde
Myristic Acid
Myrrh Oil
beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether
Nerol
Neroli Bigarde Oil
Nerolidol
Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal
2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol
gamma-Nonalactone
Nonanal
Nonanoic Acid
Nonanone
trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol
2-Nonenal
Nonyl Acetate
Nutmeg Powder and Oil
Oak Chips Extract and Oil
Oak Moss Absolute
9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%) And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)
delta-Octalactone
gamma-Octalactone
Octanal
Octanoic Acid
1-Octanol
2-Octanone
3-Octen-2-One
1-Octen-3-Ol
1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate
2-Octenal
Octyl Isobutyrate
Oleic Acid
Olibanum Oil
Opoponax Oil And Gum
Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute
Orange Oil and Extract
Origanum Oil
Orris Concrete Oil and Root Extract
Palmarosa Oil
Palmitic Acid
Parsley Seed Oil
Patchouli Oil
omega-Pentadecalactone
2,3-Pentanedione
2-Pentanone
4-Pentenoic Acid
2-Pentylpyridine
Pepper Oil, Black And White
Peppermint Oil
Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil
Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil
alpha-Phellandrene
2-Phenenthyl Acetate
Phenenthyl Alcohol
Phenethyl Butyrate
Phenethyl Cinnamate
Phenethyl Isobutyrate
Phenethyl Isovalerate
Phenethyl Phenylacetate
Phenethyl Salicylate
1-Phenyl-1-Propanol
3-Phenyl-1-Propanol
2-Phenyl-2-Butenal
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One
Phenylacetaldehyde
Phenylacetic Acid
1-Phenylalanine
3-Phenylpropionaldehyde
3-Phenylpropionic Acid
3-Phenylpropyl Acetate
3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate
2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran
Phosphoric Acid
Pimenta Leaf Oil
Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch
Pineapple Juice Concentrate
alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene
D-Piperitone
Piperonal
Pipsissewa Leaf Extract
Plum Juice
Potassium Sorbate
1-Proline
Propenylguaethol
Propionic Acid
Propyl Acetate
Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate
Propylene Glycol
3-Propylidenephthalide
Prune Juice and Concentrate
Pyridine
Pyroligneous Acid And Extract
Pyrrole
Pyruvic Acid
Raisin Juice Concentrate
Rhodinol
Rose Absolute and Oil
Rosemary Oil
Rum
Rum Ether
Rye Extract
Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage Oleoresin
Salicylaldehyde
Sandalwood Oil, Yellow
Sclareolide
Skatole
Smoke Flavor
Snakeroot Oil
Sodium Acetate
Sodium Benzoate
Sodium Bicarbonate
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Citrate
Sodium Hydroxide
Solanone
Spearmint Oil
Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil
Sucrose Octaacetate
Sugar Alcohols
Sugars
Tagetes Oil
Tannic Acid
Tartaric Acid
Tea Leaf and Absolute
alpha-Terpineol
Terpinolene
Terpinyl Acetate
5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline
1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane
2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone
2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Thiazole
1-Threonine
Thyme Oil, White and Red
Thymol
Tobacco Extracts
Tochopherols (mixed)
Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract
Tolualdehydes
para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate
para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde
para-Tolyl Acetate
para-Tolyl Isobutyrate
para-Tolyl Phenylacetate
Triacetin
2-Tridecanone
2-Tridecenal
Triethyl Citrate
3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol
para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone
2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine
1-Tyrosine
delta-Undercalactone
gamma-Undecalactone
Undecanal
2-Undecanone, 1
0-Undecenal
Urea
Valencene
Valeraldehyde
Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder
Valeric Acid
gamma-Valerolactone
Valine
Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin
Vanillin
Veratraldehyde
Vetiver Oil
Vinegar
Violet Leaf Absolute
Walnut Hull Extract
Water
Wheat Extract And Flour
Wild Cherry Bark Extract
Wine and Wine Sherry
Xanthan Gum
3,4-Xylenol
Yeast

[Djinn]

89. and you can definitively link their deaths to smoking

and not the years they worked in mining, or lived next to a refinery (having recently visited the US I was appalled at the amount of heavy industry located right next to housing)

An old bloke I know died of emphysema a few years back - had never smoked a day in his life (neither had anyone he had ever lived with and he never shared workspace with a smoker either)

He was a baker - flour dust killed him and yet his death was included in the figures purported to be caused by smoking because they lump in ALL respitory illnesses that can be caused by smoking regardless of whether they actually were

[cynatnite]

101. You really believe that cig. smoking does NOT kill? WTF?

There is about as much evidence that smoking kills as there is to proving evolution as fact. It's science.

Are you really denying science? :wtf:

Start here:

http://www.ash.org/statistics.html

What about this...

There's no way around it. Smoking is bad for your health. Smoking harms nearly every organ of the body. Cigarette smoking causes 87 percent of lung cancer deaths. It is also responsible for many other cancers and health problems. These include lung disease, heart and blood vessel disease, stroke and cataracts. Women who smoke have a greater chance of certain pregnancy problems or having a baby die from sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Your smoke is also bad for other people - they breathe in your smoke secondhand and can get many of the same problems as smokers do.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/smoking.html

People die of different things all the time, but when science shows that one thing killed a large segment of a population that usually means it's worth paying attention to.

You are the first person I have ever seen who does not believe that cig. smoking kills. I know tobacco execs say they believe it, but I figured they said it because it was their job.

Never anyone who really believed it.

[Djinn]

105. no and I never said that

try reading again.

I said that while ALL respitory diseases are included in the stats on "smoking related deaths" it is clearly a total wank because not everyone who dies from these illnesses smoked, or ever lived with a smoker. Many could have lived their lives in a bubble and genetic factors would have caused the illness, many lived near heavy industry that caused it.

Of course I believe SMOKING can cause cancer and other illnesses, as a pack a day smoker I'm well aware of the damage it's done to my lungs.

I asked you if you could DEFINITIVELY link all these cancers you've seen to people's smoking instead of their lifetime breathing in crap from an oil refinery next door.

I wonder if it this kind of ridiculous leaps of "logic" that dents the credibility of the anti-smoking lobby.

[Dawggie]

214. And there's a good reason to smoke Winston. No additives.

Tobacco
(end list)

[Bake]

216. Damn! They put butter in cigarettes!!

No wonder they're so good!

Bake

[nadinbrzezinski]

244. Many of those are in my list of HAZMAT material that was treated

with respirators and some of them with level one suits.

;-)

Thanks for the nightmares!

[Dawggie]

WHAT! They add PRUNE JUICE???? LOL.

That's why I smoke Winston. NO additives.

[Djinn]

84. funny isn't it

that the nations with the biggest increase in smoking HAVN'T seen a corresponding rise in "smoking related cancers" yet in nations where it is dropping also havn't seen a corresponding drop in those deaths.

The inclusion of ALL respitory problems leading to death as "smoking related deaths" is a total con.

If I live in Melbourne's Western suburbs for 50 years and smoke for 20 - when I develop lung cancer how on earth can it be determined that my smoking caused the cancer and not the massive environmental pollution?

[cynatnite]

88. What are the ingredients in cigs in your country?

Here in the US there are a lot of poisons injected in the smokes here. Probably why the kill rate is so high for smokers here.

[Djinn]

95. exactly the same as in yours

and I'm not sure where you get your info from because ciggies in the third world have regularly been found to be even more harmful than those sold in the west.

Any excuses for why lung cancer rates continue to increase in nations that have seen a 3/4 drop in smoking over the last 20 years?

[cynatnite]

103. Got a source for that? n/t

[Djinn]

109. for what

the fact that third world cigs are more dangerous or that smoking rates havn't decreased in the west?

Can also give you studies to show that the "increased risk" of cancer associated with "passive smoke" is LOWER than the increased cancer risks of owning a bird (and a million other things)

The issue with ETS studies is that they are almost always based on stats which is NOT the same thing as science.

If a lifetime smoker dies of a heart attack at 95, is it REALLY honest to attribute his heart attack to smoking?

[Hannah Bell]

107. Yep.

50% of Japanese men smoke, 20% of US, but more US men die of lung cancer & heart disease. The j's smoke in restaurants, bars, & in their teeny-tiny houses. Second-hand smoke all over the place.

It must be that Japanese cigarettes don't have "poisons" like american ones.

[Hannah Bell]

128. In 1955, 81% of Japanese men smoked...

50% of american men.

But the ht disease & lung disease rates of japanese men have always been lower - 1/3 lower.

[Dawggie]

248. Shhhh.... We're supposed to ignore that sort of information.

Otherwise people might start paying attention to things that really mattered.

[knitter4democracy]

76. One of my best friends was 42 when she died of lung cancer.

She'd been trying to stop, too. It was damn hard to lose her.

[cynatnite]

81. I just turned 42...

I watched my stepdad die and no way did I want to go like he did.

Sorry, for your loss :hug:

[knitter4democracy]

87. She was the first good friend I had at work.

I'll never forget visiting her in the hospital after that first stroke hit (the second one killed her). She was an amazing woman, and she left behind a depressive husband and two young teenaged kids. God, did I cry at that memorial service. It still hurts like hell.

[shireen]

28. weeding out the genetically inferior? Careful what you wish for ....

Some people are of weaker stock than others. Smoking just weeds out the genetically inferior.

Weaker as in unable to tolerate tobacco smoke and come down with pesky diseases like lung cancer and emphysema? If that's what you're after, you're well on your way towards creating a future human society free of lung cancer and emphysema.

Unfortunately, that little stab at artificial selection may weed out other desirable traits. Like intelligence.

[Dawggie]

35. So now this lends itself to attacking my intelligence?

Isn't it fun to piss on a collectively chosen minority?

What is it about Americans that they have to have someone to look down upon just so they can feel better about themselves?

[shireen]

46. Artificial selection can have unintended consequences. nt

[Jed Dilligan]

77. To answer your second question

it's the Puritan tradition of Anglo-Americans and their imitators of other ethnicities.

[AZ Criminal JD]

39. So you equate intelligence with lung cancer and emphysema.

Interesting world you want to create.

[TahitiNut]

33. Here're the 'sentiments' of one long-time DUer as posted some time ago ...

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Shut up, crybaby
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5325562#5333519
5333519, Shut up, crybaby
Posted by ******** on Fri Nov-11-05 01:33 PM

Go cough up blood and die.

We can ALL be proud!

:sarcasm:

[NNN0LHI]

37. I would like for you to drop and lose a brand new pack of smokes where I could find them

Preferably Marlboro Red 100s in the box.

:D

Don

[depakid]

44. I just want you to step outside

when you have a smoke, and refrain from lighting up with kids in the car.

Fair enough, eh?

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

59. Is it okay to take the kids out on the porch with us when we smoke?

[Dawggie]

249. What? Are you asking me outside?

I'd kick your ass!.... But I'd probably run out of breath before I did it well. :)

[Jack Sprat]

55. None at all. I support your cause.

These anti-smokers, who are doing their best to make us miserable, do not support the troops. They hate AMerica. They do. They hate America. They are retreaters. They want to take us back to a time before Sir Walter Raleigh. That's how evil they are. If they supported the troops, they would not be against our smoking.

[Raejeanowl]

56. I Want No Harm To Come To You

I'm 55 years old and functionally I have about 1-1/4 lungs from my prior smoking habit. Who knows, I may still get lung cancer; my mother did, and she died of it within two months of her diagnosis.

I wish you the strength to quit, and I wish that what's happened to me (COPD) does not happen to you. I'm not certain what COPD would have to do with genetic inferiority, any more than mesothelioma or black lung disease. Either way, please stay healthy and enjoy every breath you can still take freely.

And isn't it fun to delude yourself that you're going to 1) escape karma, or 2) get out of here alive?

[Lugnut]

70. ......

:popcorn:

[JerseygirlCT]

71. I don't hate you or any smoker

I hate the noxious fumes that your habit creates, and I do not wish ever to be forced to breath them so that you can enjoy your habit.

Is that really so much to ask?

[Djinn]

102. not at all

presuming you never drive that is

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. E. coli poisoning.

E. coli that you got when somebody else didn't wash his hands after taking a shit, because he thought washing his hands was too much of a burden.

:shrug:

[DemGa]

93. The question is a fallacy. Why do you hate America?...nt

[Jack Sprat]

111. Smoking is as American as it gets.

Native Americans loved a good smoke and the earliest European settlers did, as well. The tobacco plant and the marijuana fields of Kentucky, Virginia, and North Carolina are rich with fertile soil for our smoking pleasure. The hard working farmers who till the soil for these American cash crops are deprived of providing the marijuana plant at a more modest prices for the obvious reasons. The same can be said for their tobacco crops. Heavy federal and state usury taxes have made them less affordable for the average American family household, who once prided themselves on piling in the Buick Sedan and hit the road with the smoke of a Tarryton or Newport whirling around the passenger compartment. The good, old days of high school teens with a pack of Camels rolled up inside the tee shirt sleeve make us all wistful for the bygone days of the past. The old teardrop Indian, IronEyes Cody wasn't crying just because of pollution in the streams. He was crying because the great cigarette TV ads featuring smoking were being pulled.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

97. Lifetime whining ban.

[Canuckistanian]

98. Everything in moderation

Even if that means smoking 1/8 of a cigarette every decade.

And that goes for 98% of us.

[Raejeanowl]

154. Sounds Like My Old Mantra

That is, what really contributed to the large population of addicts was the WWII-era push to turn cigarettes from an after-dinner type luxury item into something accessible and acceptable to the masses like an everyday stick of gum or a mint, popped anytime by anyone. Uncle Sam supplying it as one of the "comforts" provided to deployed soldiers gave the tobacco companies a big boost.

If over the ensuing 60 years we'd all consumed them a few times a week instead of multiple packs of 20 every day, we'd all be telling a very different story now.

[Trajan]

106. This is silly ....

Who really cares whether you smoke or not ?

All anyone really cares about is your NOT smoking in a way that forces them or their loved ones to breath in and absorb your smoke ....

While you have a right to smoke (and more power to ya), You REALLY DONT have a right to shove your smoke up the asses of everyone around you .....

I say this as a long time smoker (37 years ...)

[Djinn]

110. as a 20 year smoker

I can honestly state I have never ever shoved my smoke up someone's ass

[Trajan]

114. "Shove Smoke Up Someone's Ass"

A euphemism for "Forcing someone to inhale your second hand smoke by demanding the 'right' to smoke whenever or wherever you may be" ....

I am pretty sure you understood that I was not implying that you actually opened an anal sphincter and pumped cigarette smoke into the bowels of another human being against their will ....

You DID know that .... right ?

[Djinn]

117. you really have to ask

you normally feel the need to respond to obvious sarcasm? someone perform a humourectomy on you recently?

[Trajan]

119. Yes ... I have to ask .....

Assumptions can be incorrect ....

One man's sarcasm is another man's humorless insult .....

You obviously felt a need to comment on my comment, so I responded in kind .....

Does that piss you off even more than before ?

[Djinn]

137. pissed off?

a little projection on your part I suspect.

I'm just wasting time until the sun comes out - given what I do for a living I find it really funny that people assume anything said here would remotely piss me off or upset me.

People threaten me and scream at me every day - this morning I was told I should avoid driving, the insinuation was my brakes had been fucked with - you think your inability to grasp the obvious would piss me off :crazy:

[Trajan]

150. ...

Whatever .... You wont be smoking around me or my kids .....

[Djinn]

157. no probably not

given I'm in Australia, your precious spawn are safe, presumably you will now go home and remove any object made by kiddies in the third world, all factory afrmed meat, your car, most cleaning products and a large amount of the food in your cupboards... because it's not only your sprogs that have lungs you know

[Dawggie]

162. Anyone?

Anyone?

Being a bit presumptuous?

[Redstone]

115. My grandfather smoked Chesterfields every day until he died at 92.

Three pack of them. Every day.

Redstone

[Djinn]

118. and he STILL would have been included

on the stats of "smoking related deaths". If you're a smoker you need to live to 150 before they'll admit perhaps the smoking had nothing to do with the mortality

[Redstone]

133. True, that. Even though he eventually died from an anuerism in his gut.

Redstone

[seabeyond]

199. years ago told hubby, no in laws at my funeral. anti smokers to the point

i can see getting hit by a bus and they standing at my grave, arms crossed, scorn on their face, shaking heads in condemnation and disdain..... we told her to quit smoking.

god forbid that i should die of a cancer or heart attack. i would just not want all those faces of sneers, of i got what i deserve at my funeral... thank you very much

this is what the anti smoker doesn't get. they think they are so above in their ugliness, and snottiness and just all around lousy character and reality..... stay the fuck away from me. because of WHO they are, (not WHAT i do), but WHO they are, i dont even want them at my funeral. knowing it would hurt hubby not having his family to support him, it is MY funeral and i dont want them there.

[Dukkha]

121. flamebait

n/t

[kwassa]

129. 400,000 people die from smoking EVERY YEAR

so what exception your relatives are is statistically meanlingless

these threads are so stupid. Denial is quite amazing

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/Factsheets/adult_cig_smoking.htm

Fact Sheet
Adult Cigarette Smoking in the United States: Current Estimates
(updated November 2007)

Cigarette smoking remains the leading preventable cause of death in the United States,1 accounting for approximately 1 of every 5 deaths (438,000 people) each year.2,3

[Djinn]

139. you know how those stats are arrived at

they include ALL smokers who just die, if I die at 115 of a heart attack as long as I smoke it's added to the stats.

Also included are ALL respitory illnesses - even if you spent your whole life living next to an oil refiniery and NEVER smoke, if you die of lung cancer YOU'RE added too.

Smoking "related" deaths statistics are worthless.

[kwassa]

151. so you are another smoker in denial

it is your life and death.

worthless statistics,, indeed. Do what you want just don't do it around me.

[Djinn]

155. not in denial at all

I am well aware MY smoking is damaging MY health, that doesn't change the fact that the collection methods for these stats are BOGUS.

Can I assume you do not drive a car or otherwise use oil, that you don't eat factory farmed meat and that you don't overuse antibiotics when a few days bedrest would work just as well.

Or perhaps is it only the harmful things OTHER people do that shit you.

I can guarantee my smoking has not effected you at all

[kwassa]

182. where is your proof that the stats are bogus?

I'd like to see that.

[lumberjack_jeff]

130. No. I hope you continue smoking 3 packs a day until your 150.

I also hope the tax on cigarettes goes up to $5 a pack. That's $500/month that I don't have to pay.

[RB TexLa]

135. When have you ever seen a reduction in what you have to pay as a result of targeted taxes on others?

[frylock]

141. smokers: the only group more persecuted than the so-called xtians..

smoke your brains out, i don't give a flying fist fuck. just step outside when you do it so that i can enjoy an evening out without coming home smelling like a fucking ashtray.

[Hannah Bell]

143. where is it that smokers are allowed to smoke inside public

places? not here.

[lumberjack_jeff]

172. If the issue was that they weren't allowed to *be* inside public places you might have a point. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

188. Michigan. It's illegal to ban smoking in restaurants and bars here.

It's in the Constitution.

[Steely_Dan]

144. Maybe The Dingo Ate Your Baby

[Dawggie]

222. FUNNIEST post on the thread!

LOL.

[joshcryer]

146. Diet contributes more to bad health than smoking ever did.

[kwassa]

153. True. And 400,000 still die from smoking.

says a lot about diet, doesn't it?

[Djinn]

160. no they don't

at least we have no idea whether they do.

The statistic is actually 400,000 people die from "smoking related diseases" that includes people who never smoked but die of lung cancer and those who did smoke but died in very old age.

No-one is arguing smoking isn't good for smoker's health, what is being disputed is the method of gathering stat's, the clear problems with attributing ALL respitory illness to smoking and the utter hysteria of the ETS bullshit which is simply NOT anywhere near as big a danger to the health of non smoking Americans as their driving, air pollution and diet is.

[kwassa]

181. how do you know this?

"The statistic is actually 400,000 people die from "smoking related diseases" that includes people who never smoked but die of lung cancer and those who did smoke but died in very old age."

just pull it out of your hat? and what percentage of total lung cancer victims were non-smokers? I already quoted stats that said that less than 10% were non-smoker, so this clearly is a variable that was considered. You have a better source of stats?

[joshcryer]

173. Says a lot about how diet contributes to an unhealthy body incapable of dealing with breathing smoke

Obesity is the number one killer in the world.

[kwassa]

180. What a bizarre conclusion

What else have you been smoking?

[REDFISHBLUEFISH]

147. Smoking

Smoking is bad. I smoke, wish I could quit.

[seabeyond]

191. let me tell you

i am old, been wanting to quit over a decade. hard for me. i started using chantex beginning of nov. immediately my smoking reduced to about half of normal. that alone felt good. i could only take 3,4 puffs before i put the cig out. wouldnt finish a cig.

12 days ago i stopped. first time in decades i have made it thru a day

chantix is expensive and my insurance doesnt cover. i would often get tummy ache, but felt worth it to quit for small time. i still want cig and at time have the impulse for one, way more than i want to happen, but something about the chantex makes the physical addiction not so bad.

for the future, when you want to give it a try.

[frogcycle]

159. useless stupid flamebait post n/t

[Cabcere]

163. Good to know I'm "genetically inferior"

;) I don't smoke, but I don't wish any harm on those who do - I'd just prefer not to be subjected to cigarette smoke in close quarters, since I do in fact have a genetic condition that increases my risk for some of the negative effects. :hi: Peace.

[Heidi]

167. You need to Google the term "weak stock," and observe how many eugenics links come up.

Just sayin'.

[El Pinko]

168. I watched 3 great aunts die prematurely - slowly in agony from emphysema...

it was not pretty.

Neither is your language like "genetically inferior".

I wish only good health and escape from the cruel addiction of nicotine for all smokers.

[Dawggie]

224. (pssst... Can you say "tongue-in-cheek?) n/t

[lancer78]

169. I agree

some people just seem to be immune to the effects of smoking. I practice Kendo. When I first started I could not believe the high number of 6th, 7th, and 8th degree black belts that smoked and competed in national tournaments. Jet Li smokes like a factory. I think the problem is the poor diet that most americans (especially smokers) have. McDonalds and Taco Bell will kill you off quicker then any cigarettes.

[casus belli]

170. "Smoking weeds out the genetically inferior"

If by genetically inferior you are referring to those with dispositions toward foolish addictions - such as smoking - then your statement stands a really good chance of being true. But the question remains, why on earth would you want to weed yourself out?

;)

[CRF450]

171. Try telling that to my mother who died a slow death of lung cancer, and...

Congestive heart failure. Though it was heart failure that killed her, she suffered from years of smoking from 18 to 59, she quit 3 months before she died, but the damage was done. A heart transplant was possible, but because of her lungs and other health problems she wouldn't have made it. Not only was she suffering, the rest of the family was suffering emotionally till her death. The fault here lays on ciggerettes which have started the decline in her health from when she first started smoking at 18.

[Snarkturian Clone]

175. You hit the nail on the head with the last statement:

Isn't it fun to have someone to hate?

That's exactly what the smoking nazis want. They'd rather open the door to restricting freedoms than be tolerant of something that slightly annoys them. I'm allergic to tobacco smoke but you don't see me pissin' and moanin'. I have the ability to adapt to the situation unlike these hypochondriac crybabies that need someone to hate.

[Dawggie]

251. Yup. Used to be Blacks, now mainly Hispanics and when all else fails: Smokers.

[Perry Logan]

177. The OP said it himself: "Smoking just weeds out the genetically inferior."

[notadmblnd]

178. My Aunt who jsut found out she had 25 tumors on her lungs

never smoked a day in her life. She never worked in a bar or restaurant, never lived under high power lines, didn't work in a coal mine, around asbestos and never drank, yet still she has lung cancer. So what was her evil sin? Breathing? I'm with you on your argument Dawggie.

[seabeyond]

189. this is the reality. thank you for your post. it is a real duh that so many anti smokers

refuse to allow themselves to see. it is to me exactly like the bush supporters, .... all logic shows bush and republicans the lie in what they say and do BUT.... agenda will not allow these supports to say, ..... sheepishly, ok this is bullshit. instead they defend in the stupidest of ways.

your post is reality

[nadinbrzezinski]

262. Did she live with a smoker?

I am not joking, my mom does not herself smoke, but has had fifty years of second hand smoke

[notadmblnd]

265. No, neither her or my uncle smokes/smoked

[raccoon]

185. I wish you and all other smokers would quit smoking, for the sake of your health

and others. And yes, I'm aware that it isn't easy to quit.

[TalkingDog]

190. Russian Roulette. Just plain old good luck.

The tobacco plant is very good at the uptake of Polonium 210 (I'll let you have the fun of the Google search)

P210 is common enough in soils, but the use of commercial phosphate fertilizers concentrates it. Tobacco farmers often use these same fertilizers on their tobacco plants.

The concentrations can vary from one area, one region, one tobacco plant to another. The half life is short, so the fresher to tobacco, the greater the risk of the smoker taking it into their body.

I don't wish any body harm. Smoker, non-smoker, former smoker. But there are quite a few things I would not wish for them.

I would wish for them not to have to lift their now 90 lb mother up so she can sit on the adult potty they've set up beside her bed at home.

And I certainly wouldn't wish for them to have to clean up the shit and piss and wash it off of her limp body after she has massive stroke, seizes up, collapses in their arms.

Because they know she is dying, that this is part of the process, they don't call an ambulance, they don't even call the doctor. They just try to make her comfortable, safe and warm. Even though her brain has just literally exploded, they hope she understands what they are trying to do for her; to keep her safe and warm.

And because they are afraid she might still have some semblence of consciousness, they don't want to worry her by crying or showing her how absolutely fucking terrified they are. How helpless they feel. How worried they are that they could have done more, could be doing more. They can't burden her with that pain. She has enough. So they sit very quietly by her bed. Talking to her gently. Telling her it's going to be fine. Stroking the soft pales skin of her now hairless head. They tell her it will all be over soon. That she will finally be able to rest and not be in so much pain. No more chemo, no more doctors. That the months of worry and pain and suffering are so very close to being over.

I wouldn't wish that kind of harm on anybody.








This is my mother. She died 2 years ago in May. The day before Mother's Day. (She had a wicked sense of humor. I miss that.)





My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios

[seabeyond]

193. how you honor your mother. thank you.

thank you for sharing this story. thank you for the pictures and thank you for the love...... i so feel your pain in your words

and it is life.... or more death. this is what took your mom. my mom, 59 was her sitting in a car, in the garage, with it running dec 26 at 4 a.m. as i lay sleeping in my bed with my newborn and 2 yr old dreaming of the christmas day they just had and our family gathering.

this is the death i got to experience with my mom

what allowed me to get thru this time was knowing how close we were and how we had talked everything. there was nothing left for me to say, there was nothing i needed to tell her. i already had.

you..... had the time.

more than anything i felt the need to acknowledge the post you made to your mom

[bpeale]

197. my paternal grandfather lived to be 95

he smoked, he chewed tobacco, he drank like a fish.

you're right, some people are just made of genetically inferior material.

[LanternWaste]

200. Do you think it was or was not a good idea to ban smoking

Do you think it was or was not a good idea to ban smoking from most health related industries (hospitals, nursing homes, etc..)?

[Dawggie]

201. I'll answer with a question: You're 85 and have smoked for 60 years then were sent to a nursing

home after you broke your hip. How compassionate is it to not allow you to smoke during your final days?

[LanternWaste]

213. I don't know the answer. So let's go back to mine...

I don't know the answer. So let's go back to mine...

[seabeyond]

217. no because they have to take it too far. and i think you do know, i think it is an obvious

that it would be pretty cruel to not allow the 85 yr old to smoke. to not find some way to accomodate. it wouldnt be hard, or much effort and would hurt no one. so the only reason to not allow that 85 yr old to smoke would be a smug self righteousness we see so often from the anti smoker.

now to answer your question

this weekend talking to a non smoker about me quitting was telling me how her hosptial has made it totally non smoking. cool i say. not unusual. they can go outside.

no she says, not even on the perimeters. they are not allowed to go outside and smoke

she says but what is really bothering her is they are trying to make it so the employees cannot even have the smell of smoke on clothes or hear..... now setting up the situation they cannot even smoke on their time and that is where her concern is.

so though most arent against a ban per se..... it is pushing pushing pushing too far

[LanternWaste]

221. Doctors will allow special dispensation for terminal patients.

And as far as I know, Doctors will allow special dispensation for terminal patients. I used to work in a cancer center and saw that happen at local area hospitals ...

I'm just a bit fed up with the the smokers who still attempt to defend the habit instead of simply saying, "it's a nasty addiction and as of right now, I don't have the will power or strength to quit". If more of us did that, instead of defending the indefensible, I doubt there'd be as much hositality aimed at us these days.

[seabeyond]

225. and i hear that continually. what i am seeing is the ugliness of the anti smokers

not non smokers, but the downright vulgar, nasty, filthy, ugliness of the anti smoker in free for all of the most horrible things they can think of to say to another person to hurt as hard as they can.

that is the person

a smoker, it is simply a thing

give me the smoker

latern, you say that is all you want, but i do not believe that is all you want or many others on these smoker threads. you want an humilation, a shame,.... you want to scorn. and i can hear it and feel it at the end of your post. all you want from the smokers is for them to reduce themselves...... what does that say about you that you have the need of that from another person

shame on you

[LanternWaste]

229. You may infer whatever you want.

"you want an humilation, a shame,.... y"

No. That's not quite correct. I simply want all of us to admit that there's no defense for our habit other than it's an addiction we suffer through.

You may infer that I want to scorn or minimize others. It would be incorrect though.

Although I smoke, I simply don't buy the "Righteously Indignant and Put-Upon Smoker" bullshit. I don't buy the "Banning Smoking Leads to a Fascist State" bullshit. I don't buy the "Cars Pollute, Too" bullshit. If I see a valid defense of smoking on any level, I'll examine it closely. I just haven't seen any...

[knitter4democracy]

238. I've never heard of a ban that severe here in Michigan.

Hubby's an internist and covers two hospitals. They have designated smoking areas outside.

Oh, and in nursing homes around here, same thing. There's a smoking area for residents.

[seabeyond]

240. it may not be there, but it is expanding, growing to extreme. n/t

[knitter4democracy]

241. Not Michigan. We'd have to amend the state constitution.

The last time they tried that, they couldn't get enough signatures to get it on the ballot.

[Dawggie]

226. Okay...

I believe it is not compassionate to not allow some sort of place for a smoker to indulge his or her addiction in a high stress situation.

My mother-in-law died from emphysema. It took several years and thanks to morphine she was never in much pain. I can still see her leaning over the kitchen sink with cigarette and oxygen looking out the window and watching the birds in her back yard.

She was a wonderful woman and I loved her dearly.

The moment of clarity for me was when she asked me for a cigarette and knowing that this was a thing detrimental to her current health, I gave her one. She was thirty years my elder and knew damned well what she was doing.

I was holding her hand when she died.



Yes, I know that smoking is not good for you. However it is far from the death sentence for most people. Thank god.

Peace.

[Javaman]

202. I find it interesting, especially lately, that people have to come out

and defend addictive habits.

[Dawggie]

203. "Let you without sin cast the first stone?"

:) Hey, after being called a killer, stupid, a death wisher and lower than pond scum by so many for so long, what would one expect?

I don't smoke in public places or around anyone but other smokers. I live in a house with an acre of land so I'm really pretty harmless no matter which side of the fence you fall in.

[Javaman]

205. Then why defend it? nt

[Dawggie]

227. Then why diss me for it if I (my smoke) have no interaction with you or yours?

[Javaman]

253. I didn't dis you. I was just merely postulating on the obvious.

smoke all you want, I don't give a damn.

I just find it odd that people have to defend a known addictive habit.

puff away.

[seabeyond]

219. i think it is a matter that in the past, people accepted that others made choices

and that was an end to it. where today you have this self righteous holier than thou bullshit being implemented into laws and not just the nanny state shit but the fundamentalist rw bullshit, being inundated with the self righteousness that people are having to defend at every turn whether it is an addiction i may participate in or not.,

[autorank]

211. Very well done. I hope you win the lottery.

[seabeyond]

220. and every time you get in a car, walk in a bathroom, or get on a plane, you to

win the lottery.

such compassionate people we are

[autorank]

230. ...unless you're Larry Craig, in which case every trip is like roulette;)

If the value of life is priceless, what's it worth?

[LynneSin]

223. So you're saying my Dad was genetically inferior? Fuck you!!!

:grr:

[Dawggie]

228. Well, that's certainly mature. I never knew your father and have never said anything about him.

The statement was obviously tongue-in-cheek as a rebuttal to all those who love to throw stones at smokers.

I hope you can get a handle on your anger. I've read many of your posts and you are a bright person with whom I agree with on many issues.

Peace.

[LynneSin]

231. Perhaps you should get a grip on your sarcasm

Your joke doesn't affect just me but many many people here in DU who have lost a loved one to horrible conditions. It's all fun & games to post shit like "genetically inferior" but remember you're talking about loved ones of people who post around you. My anger is well intact, thank you very much asshole!

[Dawggie]

237. When considered with the retort of "fuck you," and your calling me an "asshole"

You really seem to be reacting in a very shallow manner. I'd call those personal attacks per the DU rules.

If you had read the thread you would also have realised that I have also lost a loved one to emphysema and held her hand as she died.

You are making the point of the OP very nicely in a not so nice way.

Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

242. actually your comment of genetically inferior is

an insult.

Perhaps you should not have posted it.

And as I said bellow, enjoy your deep and pervasive nicotine addiction... after all the way tobacco is processed it is crack tobacco.

you share that addiction with my father... who also has to smoke away from me... pesky ashma you know...

But you insulted folks with that air of superiority... and now you are shocked folks are reacting the way they are?

Unfrigging amazing!

This whole post is a personal insult per DU rules

[Dawggie]

245. "enjoy your deep and pervasive nicotine addiction"

Actually, the post is a reaction to so many hate filled posts towards smokers. I'm one and have been for probably longer than you have been alive.

"Air of superiority?" Come on. You know better. I've read your posts.

However, if one cannot stand the heat...

Peace, and I still like you.

And I will NEVER blow my smoke at you or yours. I promise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

261. Prove to me that you... or any other long term smoker is NOT addicted to crack tobacco

please do...

It is a MEDICAL FACT.

As to hating smokers, I don't hate them. Hell, as I said my father IS one...

But that does not mean that this habit is not healthy or the formula of American Cigarettes makes them highly addictive.

Them are FACTS. In fact, WELL KNOWN MEDICAL FACTS

[LynneSin]

247. I think anyone who calls those who have died of smoking related illnesses as 'genetically inferior'

are getting off quite easily with simply 'fuck you' and 'asshole'

[Dawggie]

256. Here's the OP again... Show me where I said what you claim. Pay attention to the 5th line.

I'm a smoker. What harm would you like to come to me?

So was the oldest living human on earth (until she reached 118, anyway). So was my great grandfather who died at 98 and my grandfather who passed at 92.

On the other side of my family, both who never smoked, my Grams died at 76 and Gramps at 80.

Some people are of weaker stock than others. Smoking just weeds out the genetically inferior.

Isn't it fun to have someone to hate?

[LanternWaste]

257. Almost as fun as defending the indefensible, I imagine.

"Isn't it fun to have someone to hate?"

Almost as fun as defending the indefensible, I imagine.

But, I'm done-- you don't seem to be able to perceive any difference between valid critique and "hate"; which appears to me to be a fundamental stumbling block between discourse (as does bumper sticker philosophies and back-handed compliments-- or calling people genetically inferior).

So-- you win! Smoking is good for us! You're a god-damned genius for smoking! Nine out of ten doctors say that smoking a Chesterfield will clear out your lungs and help you relive stress. Non-smokers should get over it. Smokers rule! Our lungs are clean. Chocolate rations will be increased!




As for me, I'm simply an addict to nicotine-- hopefully I'll find the strength to quit one day.

[Dawggie]

263. If you have read the thread you will discover that I never claim that "smoking is good."

As to "defending the indefensible," I have suffered "fuck yous" and many slights on my intelligence and various other dispersions.

Point, dawggie?

[PVnRT]

232. How's the view up on that cross?

[nadinbrzezinski]

233. Enjoy your addiction

the rest of us do not need your smoke (and if you think I am genetically inferior because my asthma acts up, so be it)

[AlCzervik]

239. i also smoke but i don't have a persecution complex.

[slackmaster]

243. I'd like to see a substantial portion of your disposable income lost in a series of small fires

But only if that's what you really want.

[Dukkha]

252. it already is

The small fires are on the tip of his cigarettes.
The rest can go to pay the medical bills for the genetically inferior inhaling his second hand smoke.

[Dawggie]

255. Oh. go buy another gun.

They're a heluva lot more efficient than my tobacco.

[slackmaster]

258. I plan to do just that as soon as I get my tax break/bribe check

:hi:

[GoneOffShore]

250. As a non smoker - Nothing at all.

People need to get over themselves.

Most of the snarky responses make me glad I've got an ignore option.

[morgan2]

254. I want some sort of blow job related eye injury

definitely involving semen...

but I wish that on everyone.

[Lilith Velkor]

259. !

:spray:

[demgurl]

260. None......

part of my spiritual awakening is realizing we are all really one with each other. Why would a rational person want to hurt someone they have never met? And why would I want all of your friends and family to be hurt by your loss when I do not know them. No, I hope for a long and fruitful life for you and yours.

You smoke and so now I will tell you how it does effect me. If you are in the car in front of me, with your cigarette hanging out the window, I will smell it and I am very sensitive toward cigarette smoke. I must shut off the A/C so that your smoke will stop entering my car - this even on a very hot day. I do not hate you or wish you ill, I would like you to keep the smoke in your car.

And what am I doing? Well, I do not go to bars any more. At one point I really liked doing so but and I could tolerate the smoke. The last time I was in a bar (maybe 15 or so years ago??) I left the establishment wheezing and hardly able to breathe because of the smoke. I did not demand people stop or go to my representatives and ask for a ban on smoking. I figure if that is what you want to do, so be it. I just avoid places that do not have separate sections for me. That is not an out and out boycott and I do not even let establishments know because it is just not that important for me to restrict where you can smoke. BEcause of my heath and difficulty with the smoke I must avoid being in close contact. No problem.

I wish you no harm and disappointed with people on this board who do. I wish you well.

Peace!