Has No Child Left Behind accomplished anything of merit for the country?

[Orrex]

My sons aren't yet school-age, but at least several times each week I hear coworkers lamenting the staggering workload dumped on their five, six, and seven year olds. One second grader gets two hours of homework per night. A first grader has weekly math tests requiring hours of mandatory study. Another child has nightly "spelling lists" of twenty words that she must write and use in a sentence. One coworker has triplets, so she and her husband get to help six or more hours of nightly homework.

What the fuck is this about? I would estimate that in my entire first grade year I had about six hours of homework altogether.

Another coworker described the take-home test that her seven year old presented to her last night. It's a scantron-style sheet nominally designed to assess the child's readiness for the statewide evaluations, but in fact intended to prep the child for the test itself.

I have never heard of a more cynical federal education program, so clearly designed from its outset to fail in every one of its stated goals and so utterly damaging to the well being of children in this country.

There is no goddamned way that I'm going to subject my children to 10+ weekly hours of bullshit busy work just so that the legacy of George W. Bush can continue to cast its long and destructive shadow.

For the record, I don't object to challenging assignments that actually improve a child's ability to reason and to learn, but does it really enhance a seven year old's prospects for the future if she can use the word "sloop" in a sentence?

What have been your experiences with this ill-conceived and disastrous program?

[fenriswolf]

1. it has allowed students who have excelled at test taking

marvelous opportunities for advancement.

[jasmine621]

2. No. Nor has the "faith-based initiative" except to put cash in the pockets

of about 100 pastors of supporting churches.

[Orrex]

4. You're right, of course, and that has always been the goal

So-called "Fiscal Conservatives" are big fans of government-assisted redistribution of wealth, as long as it's being redistributed from the poor to the rich.

NCLB is simply another tool for accomplishing this goal.

[Johonny]

18. I believe

the "faith-based" initiative is suppose to give money to the church who in turn donate it to their favorite Republican candidate.

[Orrex]

24. No, that's Blackwater and other "military contractors"

Oh wait--we're both right.

And more's the pity.

[Virginia Dare]

3. In a word, no...

I once had a freeper relative argue with me that NCLB was a "Clinton" thing that was thrust on Bush when he took office...:crazy: :dunce:

[mwb970]

79. LOL!! /nt

[Fresh_Start]

5. I've always been in good school districts

(paid through the nose for real estate to assure I didn't need to pay for private schools)
its been a real negative to us

part of this issue is that it narrows the curriculum
another part that it reduces the ability to help children love to learn since theres lots of rote learning
its an unfunded mandate so it hurts already strained school budgets
but the homework level wasn't really part of it
the homework level guidelines were agreed to by parent+teachers before NCLB at least in our district

[greenbriar]

6. NO NO NO NO and NO

it sucks...


here is an analogy for you

A little humor to kick off the weekend. Via Hoagie’s Gifted
1. All teams must make the state playoffs, and all will win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable.
2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time and in the same conditions. No exceptions will be made for interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL.
3. When players arrive at any game with remedial skills in football for any reason, their coaches will be penalized for their performance, regardless of how long the players have been on the team. cjk
4. If remedial players do not achieve proficiency by the next statistically recorded game, their coaches and athletic directors will be put on probation. After several games of probation, coaches and athletic directors may be released. Coach and athletic director probation and release will not be conditional on the size of gains in the remedial players football skills; players must reach proficiency. cjk
5. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. Coaches will use all their instructional time with the athletes who aren’t interested in football, have limited athletic ability or whose parents don’t like football.
6. All coaches will be proficient in all aspects of football, or they will be released.
7. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th and 11th games.
8. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.
If no football player gets ahead, then no football player will be left behind.


No Dentist Left Behind


My dentist is great! He sends me reminders so I don't forget checkups.
He uses the latest techniques based on research. He never hurts me, and I've got all my teeth.

When I ran into him the other day, I was eager to see if he'd heard about the new state program. I knew he'd think it was great.
"Did you hear about the new state program to measure effectiveness of dentists with their young patients?" I said.

"No," he said. He didn't seem too thrilled. "How will they do that?" "It's quite simple," I said. "They will just count the number of cavities each patient has at age 10, 14, and 18 and average that to determine a dentist's rating. Dentists will be rated as excellent, good, average, below average, and unsatisfactory. That way parents will know which are the best dentists. The plan will also encourage the less effective dentists to get better," I said. "Poor dentists who don't improve could lose their licenses to practice."

"That's terrible," he said.

"What? That's not a good attitude," I said. "Don't you think we should try to improve children's dental health in this state?" "Sure I do," he said, "but that's not a fair way to determine who is
practicing good dentistry."

"Why not?" I said. "It makes perfect sense to me."

"Well, it's so obvious," he said. "Don't you see that dentists don't all work with the same clientele, and that much depends on things we can't control? For example, I work in a rural area with a high percentage of patients from deprived homes, while some of my colleagues work in upper middle-class neighborhoods. Many of the parents I work with don't bring their children to see me until there is some kind of problem, and I don't get to do much preventive work. Also, many of the parents I serve let their kids eat way too much candy from an early age, unlike more educated parents who understand the relationship between sugar and decay. To top it all off, so many of my clients have well water which is untreated and has no fluoride in it. Do you have any idea how much difference early use of fluoride can make?"


"It sounds like you're making excuses," I said. "I can't believe that you, my dentist, would be so defensive. After all, you do a great job, and you needn't fear a little accountability."

"I am not being defensive!" he said. "My best patients are as good as anyone's, my work is as good as anyone's, but my average cavity count is going to be higher than a lot of other dentists because I chose to work where I am needed most."

"Don't' get touchy," I said.

"Touchy?" he said. His face had turned red, and from the way he was clenching and unclenching his jaws, I was afraid he was going to damage his teeth. "Try furious! In a system like this, I will end
up being rated average, below average, or worse. The few educated patients I have who see these ratings may believe this so-called rating is an actual measure of my ability and proficiency as a dentist. They may leave me, and I'll be left with only the most needy patients. And my cavity average score will get even worse. On top of that, how will I attract good dental hygienists and other excellent dentists to my practice if it is labeled below average?"

"I think you are overreacting," I said. "'Complaining, excuse-making and stonewalling won't improve dental health'... I am quoting from a leading member of the DOC," I noted. "What's the DOC?" he asked. "It's the Dental Oversight Committee," I said, "a group made up of mostly lay persons to make sure dentistry in this state gets improved"

"Spare me," he said, "I can't believe this. Reasonable people won't buy it," he said hopefully. The program sounded reasonable to me, so I asked, "How else would you measure good dentistry?"

"Come watch me work," he said. "Observe my processes."
"That's too complicated, expensive and time- consuming," I said.

"Cavities are the bottom line, and you can't argue with the bottom line. It's an absolute measure."

"That's what I'm afraid my parents and prospective patients will think. This can't be happening," he said despairingly. "Now, now," I said, "don't despair. The state will help you some."

"How?" he asked. if you receive a poor rating, they'll send a dentist who is rated excellent to help straighten you out," I said brightly. "You mean," he said, "they'll send a dentist with a wealthy clientele to show me how to work on severe juvenile dental problems with which I have probably had much more experience? BIG HELP!" "There you go again," I said. "You aren't acting professionally at all."

"You don't get it," he said. "Doing this would be like grading schools and teachers on an average score made on a test of children's progress with no regard to influences outside the school, the home, the community served and stuff like that. Why would they do something so unfair to dentists? No one would ever think of doing that to schools."

I just shook my head sadly, but he had brightened. "I'm going to write my representatives and senators," he said. "I'll use the school analogy. Surely they will see the point."

He walked off with that look of hope mixed with fear and suppressed anger that I, a teacher, see in the mirror so often lately. If you don't understand why educators resent the recent federal NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT, this may help. If you do understand, you'll enjoy this analogy.

[lonestarnot]

7. Just a bunch of nutball test administrators making money for printing and administering mo tests.

Repug crap.

[rucky]

8. It's done one good thing...

and that's forcing states to set benchmarks as to what the kids need to be learning and at which grade level. I'm all for teachers setting their curriculum, but they'll have a different teacher next year, and they need to be prapared. This closes gaps in the curriculum and prevents kooky school boards and textbook publishers from being sloppy in their planning.

NCLB should've stopped there, with a mandate to teachers that kids need to learn these things - we don't care how you get there, or how you assess it, but it needs to be covered.

What's happening now is, depending on the timing of the state assessments, teachers are cramming all of these benchmarks in to preparing for a high-stakes exam. There is no sensitivity to the timeline or curriculum structure and it puts teachers and kids in a box that they don't need to be in.

Accountibility could come via a portfolio audit, with work samples collected from students that represent their accomplishments.

[MadHound]

13. Those benchmarks have been around a lot longer than NCLB

They are generally called Grade Level Expectations, or something similar. And yes, teachers were, and are, required to meet those GLEs for a particular grade and subject. Teachers have never been allowed to teach just whatever the hell they wanted to, they have to follow certain mandates set by the state and local school districts.

The true purpose of NCLB isn't to help our schools or children, it is to rip down our public school system and replace it with a private, mostly christian system of education.

[greenbriar]

15. BINGO

spot on

[rucky]

17. Yes, but they weren't standardized.

5th Graders in Mississippi were learning different things than 5th Graders in Minnesota. Districts had too much power to push an agenda. and school boards can get awful kooky, sometimes.

Before NCLB, I was in a district that built their Social Studies requirements off of outdated textbooks, so they wouldn't have to spring for new ones. Stuff like that.

[MadHound]

29. Then that would be a problem at the state level, not the local one

And you could contact the state to solve those problems.

Standardizing across the country is a nightmare, adding another layer of garbage and bureaucracy to the system. Having statewide standards allowed for more flexibility and local control. Sure, some districts did poorly, but they could be controlled through the state education board.

As far as not springing for the money, whose fault is that ultimately? Oh, yeah, the local voters who didn't want to pay for a decent school system via their tax dollars:shrug: Now we've got national standards to deal with and still the voters aren't willing to fork over the money.

Rather than having national standards imposed on schools we need a paradigm shift in how the public views education from being a burden on the taxpayer to being an investment in the future. Too many people are too selfish to do that however.

Education is the only field in which the public controls the revenue, no matter what the costs, controls the salaries, and controls the content. We're all seeing how well that's working, perhaps we should try something new, like having the professionals in the field make such decisions. Nah, that makes too much sense.

[blondeatlast]

57. Thanks.I was going to respond with the same and am happy to see

others ahead of me on this! (Ex-HS English teacher and current parent who DEPISES NCLB--as do my son's wonderful and terribly overworked teachers).

[ailsagirl]

9. Hell NO!!!!!

[TahitiNut]

10. God forbid that kids spend more than 5-6 hours bearing that huge burden of learning any day.

After all, 180 days of 6 hours at school every year is just too tough. OMG! That's close to 1200 hours each year! When will they find time to do a full-time job of 2000+ hours???

[Orrex]

12. That's hysterical

As I said, I have no objection to challenging assignments or to work that actually fosters an ability and/or desire to learn. But the current courseload has nothing to do with that.

Also, you seem to be advocating that a six year old must be primed and conditioned to work a 40-hour week. Well, fuck! Why bother with school at all? Let's just dump them in the mines, where their small bodies will be better suited to laborious ore extraction?

[greenbriar]

16. I hope you are joking

if not, you have no understanding of how bad a situation this is

[MonkeyFunk]

11. It has been a boon

for the #2 pencil manufacturers.

[stanwyck]

14. It teaches kids to hate school and hate learning

Education does not have to be a grueling routine. It does not have to be soul defying drudgery. Learning really can be exhilarating and fun. A real adrenaline rush. However, when children are stuck in chairs being "taught to the test", then it's not education. Worse, children become restless with learning, think it's all going to be tiresome, and shift their energy elsewhere.
NCLB is a disaster for the mind. We're literally teaching children to hate education.

[LibDemAlways]

25. "We're literally teaching children to hate education."

Dead on. My 9th grade daughter dreads going to school because she knows everyday she's going to be required to memorize a new set of random facts to be spewed back before being deleted from her head after she fills in the bubbles on the scantron.

I keep telling her to hang on until college, where hopefully she'll finally be called on to think. My biggest fear is that she'll be so burnt out by then, she'll never want to set foot in another classroom.

[Initech]

19. My mom's take on the subject:

She is a lifelong educator who says that it's quite possibly the worst thing to happen to education. The teachers hate teaching it because it takes two whole fucking weeks out of the year, and the kids hate taking the tests. It's basically the death of creative thinking.

[Kajsa]

36. You're mom is right, EOO.

I'm a substitute teacher, grades 7-12.

I have not seen ONE benefit from NCLB since its
inception. I have seen the waste of time and
attempted murder of critical thinking in the classrooms.

:-(

[cgrindley]

38. No way

two weeks? wow. two whole weeks?

well that's it...

Jesus.

And kids hate taking tests? really?

and we're supposed to give a shit why now?

[cgrindley]

39. Let me tell you how shitty most high schools are

most high schools are so shitty that there is a whole crop of magnet schools where your kid can get a fucking AA degree in the four years it takes to get through high school. you know what that means? it means that standard high schools are lax and that kids are not being worked hard enough.

without a good college education (ideally a bachelors and a masters degree), our children will be fucked. to pretend otherwise is idiotic. the foundation of a good college education is a ruthless and difficult high school experience.

[LanternWaste]

84. Or, it could also mean that..

"it means that standard high schools are lax and that kids are not being worked hard enough."

Or, it could also mean that some parents are doing their jobs and not excepting the school system to do it for them, whilst other parents are not. It could also mean that many students simply do not care to excel academically, despite being given the appropriate tools.

When I was in High School, I knew both the academic leaders and the academic losers. One group would credit themselves, their parents and/or and the school, whilst the other group would simply blame the school for their poor performance. Seems to me that at least one of the two groups was wrong...

[Initech]

40. Are you in education?

If not then are you qualified to give such an opinion?

Face the facts: the government doesn't want a well educated populace. They just want people who are smart enough to push the buttons and accept the increasingly shittier jobs being offered. That's the whole fucking point of NCLB.

[cgrindley]

43. yes

I am indeed qualified to discuss it.

In my opinion, we need a system of checks and balances in the elementary, middle school and high school level. I do not have confidence in the ability or desire of public--and especially NOT private--schools to give fair assessments of student ability. Nor do I have confidence that a sound foundation of general education core competencies will be taught unless it is mandated that they be taught and the teaching assessed.

NCLB is not perfect. Indeed, it is an amazingly flawed thing.

But... in the future, it will be fixed and the resulting system will benefit our children.

[Initech]

44. OK then I accept your opinion.

But let me clarify that - it's the test itself that takes two weeks. They spend like six whole months preparing for the test. That's what they are so pissed about. Where I live, there are TONS of testing centers where kids literally 24/7 preparing for these standardized tests. That's no way to live. Me personally, I'm heavily opposed to the idea of standardized tests because there's so much preparation involved.

[cgrindley]

45. But but but

SATs, GRES, MCATs, nursing board exams, rad-tech exams, civil service exams, the bar exams... this is just how things are.

You're basically protesting plate tectonics. There's nothing you can do about plate tectonics. It's just how the world works.

[Orrex]

48. Let's get this straight

You're advocating for a system in which all education is abandoned for the sake of rote, herd-mentality testing, because "it's just how the world works?"

The idiocy of the system is not that children are required to meet certain benchmarks (to use a phrase much despised by the administration). The idiocy is that the system places an absolute priority on performance on tests without any concern over whether or not the children taking those tests are actually learning anything beyond "fill in each circle completely."

[cgrindley]

54. No... I'm advocating the careful assessment of defined learning objectives

the process by which NCLB functions is extraordinarily flawed, but the idea behind it, that schools and teachers and students and parents are part of a continuum of responsibility that needs to be continually assessed is basically sound. Until NCLB, there really wasn't much oversight. At least now there's some.

The education system in Canada and the UK have not descended into a circle the wagons and teach the tests mentality, so it's not a given that that approach has to happen. Teachers, though, really have to get on board. The younger ones probably are, so the situation will sort itself out over time. Program assessment is not going away.

[U4ikLefty]

65. What position in education do you occupy?

[coalition_unwilling]

88. Have you discussed your opinion with any teacher and asked

that teacher's opinion? Just wondering because every teacher I've spoken with about NCLB (in the Los Angeles Unified School District and Santa Monica\Pacific Palisades School District) has slammed it with some calling it a "crime against children."

Of course, you're probably so well qualified on the merits (or lack thereof) of NCLB that there's no need for you to consult the opinion of professional educators about making high school more "ruthless" and "difficult" (your words).

[AllyCat]

53. I'm reading the fifth Harry Potter book right now. NCLB reminds me of Prof. Umbridge

and her refusing to teach them anything in Defense of the Dark Arts that would actually allow them to defend themselves.

But on to the real world...this stupid policy doesn't teach them anything. No wonder we have the worst schools.

But the powers that be are happy because they don't want kids to learn that dag burned critical thinking...because THAT would get them to question. And we certainly can't have that. How is NCLB supposed to prepare kids for college?

A friend is a high school science teacher. She says these tests are just the opposite of everything she has ever tried to teach her students.

[LeftishBrit]

86. I am quite sure that Dolores Umbridge was modelled at least in part..

on Chris Woodhead, former chief of OFSTED (Office for Standards in Education) and architect of what is approximately Britain's version of NCLB. (Except that he is male!) It's had disastrous effect here too: intense stress for children and teachers; 'teaching to the test'; the crowding out of subjects that are not tested.

[coalition_unwilling]

89. NCLB reminds me of Thomas Gradgrind in Dickens' "Hard Times" with

his insistence upon "facts, only facts" and the death of the creative spirit as represented by Sissy Jupe.

Come to think of it, after 8 years of *, Amerikkka is starting to resemble Dickensian England, so maybe my comparison isn't too far off the mark.

[izquierdista]

20. Made a lot of money

For the test prep company owned by Bush brother Neil (or is it Marvin, I don't remember details about that family very well. Whichever one made out when the old cow Barbara gave some money to rebuild New Orleans schools, only it all had to go to buying his school materials.)

Oh, you said for the country.....nope, can't think of a damn thing of merit.

[LibDemAlways]

21. It's all about preparing kids to take a bunch of

standardized tests. I have a daughter who is currently in 9th grade, and believe me, she's done enough bullshit busywork crap to last a lifetime.

Last year when I received her standardized test results in the mail, I tossed the envelope into the trash unopened.

It's been my experience that kids are not being taught critical thinking skills at all. My daughter just completed a required one-semester geography course which was a huge waste of time. Most of it was memorizing maps. You'd think with the advent of the internet and all of the info available at one's fingertips, that the emphasis in school would be on research. No. It's all on rote memorization and spewing back random facts. It's incredibly frustrating, because it's such a huge turn-off. And extremely time consuming. If you think first grade bullshit homework is a waste, you should see 9th grade bullshit homework. Up to 8 hours of it a night. It's insane. My daughter even brings home written homework for PE class.

And we're turning out a generation of kids who know next to nothing about current events because events that might impact their lives in the real world aren't on the test. During her entire time in school my daughter has never, not once, had a teacher mention anything going on in the world. Education, at least through high school, now exists in a bubble, separated from reality.

It's frustrating as hell, but it's probably all part of the master plan to keep the sheep stupid and compliant. And, frighteningly enough, for the most part it seems to be working.

[Orrex]

23. re: Critical Thinking

I went to public school from K to 12, and my first exposure even to the phrase "critical thinking" came in the second semester of my sophomore year in college. I immediately recognized it as a tremendously powerful tool and a rewarding intellectual pursuit, and I was disgusted to reflect back upon the countless hours spent "spewing back random facts", as you very correctly describe it.

I was out of school long before NCLB first hit the fan, but even with the shortcomings of my own public education, I see now that it was greatly superior to the current requirements made of schools, teachers, and students.

[LibDemAlways]

27. I graduated from high school in 1970. While it wasn't all

wonderful, I don't recall a lot of time being wasted on memorization and regurgitation. It wasn't uncommon to have open book tests, where one's ability to locate information was as important as the info itself. I also recall spirited discussions about news events in class. And the curriculum was more flexible with more choice of electives.

Kids today really are being cheated out of an education in the truest sense of the word.

[kineneb]

31. I would probably flunk out, if I were in school now

I had one class in HS which I simply refused to do the assignments- "creative writing" ugh. Still hate it. Did not give a damn that I got a D- in it. I doubt I would see the relevance of the rote homework and just chuck the whole thing.

Yeah, I was probably not a pleasure to teach. On the other hand, I have a BA and grad studies in Music History...

[Jed Dilligan]

22. There are some okay parts to it

Ted Kennedy was behind a lot of it. One good thing is it's forcing schools to disaggregate data so that they can't claim an average improvement while locking all their black and Latino kids in the basement.

[ieoeja]

26. I was shocked by the workload when my kid started school.

Like your examples it became a round-the-clock job. After work it was homework til bedtime. Thoroughly exhausting. And you can't just go do something else while the kid is at it. My kid was reading at a 9th grade level in the 4th grade, but still needed tons of help because so much time had to be spent doing research on the Internet, running out for supplies or to the library, etc.

They want to get parents involved, so they tack on busy work for the parents thinking that will make a difference. If the parent is working nights, this isn't going to change anything except make the kid fail in school. If the parent is a fucking crack-head, this still isn't going to change anything except make a bad life even worse for the kid cause now he has no chance of passing school. So you're fucking up the at-risk kids, while just making things harder on those parents who would get involved anyway.

Twenty-five book reports a year beginning in the 2nd grade! Insane.

[LibDemAlways]

35. When I was in school, I doubt very much my mom even

knew what courses I was taking. She certainly never sat down and helped with my homework. My dad would help with math occasionally, but most of what I had to do, I could handle by myself. Expectations on the part of the school were generally realistic.

That is not the case today. If a parent doesn't either put forth a great deal of personal effort or hire tutors to help, kids are sunk. The demands are great. Projects are complicated. Kids need help getting it all done. Those who don't have help fall by the wayside.

The system sucks.

[MediaBabe]

47. Parental involvement in education...

People usually don't say parental involvement is what sucks about the system. They usually say that no parental involvement is what sucks.

It's true though - if parents aren't 100% involved in their child's education then it's likely that child will have a very tough time of it. Harsh but true.

[eppur_se_muova]

80. I always thought book reports were the most f***ing useless thing ever created.

Pointless makework. I am a fast and voracious reader, got into MIT and went on to a PhD, so they weren't missed.

Reports only serve to slow down actual progress, as in most aspects of life.

But now some "expert" says **25** book reports a year?

Here's your standard template for that assignment:

"If you want to know what's in the book _____________, read it for yourself."

[ieoeja]

82. Worse yet, he stopped reading!

The kid had a voracious appetite for reading. I can not say with any certainty that this is the factor that ended that. But he did lose interest in reading following the first year in which he had to do this. So I have always wondered if they just turned something he enjoyed into so much work that he grew to hate it.

[eppur_se_muova]

85. Reverse psychology reversed!

Remember that clever trick of letting the kids eat nothing but pizza for every meal, until they're sick of it, and finally quit asking for pizza?

With NCLB left behind, we're now turning them off to the good habits rather than the bad ones!

[MediaBabe]

28. NCLB sucks but luckily you know so you can prepare for it

I agree with almost everything you say including the part about too much homework for the early grades. BUT... Step back and take a deep breath. Don't lose sight of the big picture.

The big picture is you want your children to like school and that means you've got to approach this in a way that doesn't turn your children off education. Yeah, it'll take a lot of work on your part to cheerfully support their teacher but success takes a lot of work and it will pay off greatly in the long run.

Once they actually start school you may find out that the horror stories aren't really as bad as they sounded. Besides it's very probable there are going to be changes in NCLB once a new president, one with more education, gets into office.

[Orrex]

30. To heck with you and your reasonable, level-headed response!

I'm itching to storm the castle! Who's with me!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[robbedvoter]

33. I am hoping a new president will scrap it and start from scratch.

[robbedvoter]

32. Secret meaning: "We'll get your kids raptured somehow, by killing public education"

The name always made me think of "Left Behind" I think it's code speak to the base.
Shame on Ted Kennedy to get mixed in this!

[LibertyLover]

34. I'll take Disasters for $100 Alex

Disclaimer: my daughter is 5 and only in kindergarten.

However, she already comes home with homework several times a week. Most of it is based on reading, which she can't do quite yet, so I have to read it to her and explain what she needs to do, then watch her to make sure she does it correctly. Allegedly this has nothing to do with NCLB, but mandatory homework amounts were only put in place in our school system after NCLB was enacted.

Then there is the extra stuff - we got a notice yesterday about the school's science fair. It is mandatory for 2nd through 5th graders to enter a project and optional, but strongly encouraged, for K and 1st graders. We also got a notice about a reading fair - why they call it that, since it's not optional and all children have to read 3 books in the next month. At the end of which their principal will roller skate around school all day wearing Washington Redskins clothing. So, my kid doesn't read yet, which means I'll have to read the books to her (not a big deal, I generally read her 3 or 4 books a day anyway), but so that the principal can roller skate and wear Redskins stuff? That's what makes it a "fair" and not homework?

Every day my little girl wakes up and pleads not to go to school. Every day we have to put her on a school bus at 8 am and send her to a place she doesn't like and pick her up at the bus stop at 3:45 pm and hear about the homework she has.

I really hate what NCLB had done to education and deeply regret that I can't homeschool my daughter due to the fact that I'm the breadwinner in the family and my husband has no desire to homeschool her even thought he only works a few hours a day and not every day at that.

[cgrindley]

37. I think that it has

at the very least, children will have a dull sheen of memorized half-facts instead of utter blank slate ignorance... at most, the system will end up functioning like Canada's or the UK's standardized testing and accountability programs. It will ensure that high school grades are legitimate instead of arbitrary. It will ensure that students entering college have a predictable level of knowledge.

Now as far as those parent who are complaining about their kids having 10 or so hours of homework a week... INVECTIVE SWEAR WORD PERSONAL INSULT. Why not just help your children with their homework? 10 hours a week is not unreasonable. They're going to get 4 times that in college. And no one will make special concessions for them. And tell me this? Why are American parents so dismissive of the notion of children working diligently at school work. It's school WORK not school PLAY.

PS I'm sure "sloop" is PSAT or SAT vocab. so.... yes... using it correctly will probably help their future prospects.

[Orrex]

46. 10 hours is fine for older kids

Still excessive IMO, but tolerable. For younger kids, say K through 3, it's simply preposterous.

No kidding they're going to get more than that in college. But so what? Most college students live in dorms or apartments and have to navigate the arcane degree requirements of whatever college they've lucked into. Hell, why don't we just make a child choose her life's path as soon as she can write her name? After all, no one will make special concessions for her, right?

Why are American parents so dismissive of the notion of children working diligently at school work. It's school WORK not school PLAY.

Again, it's not a matter of rejecting the idea that kids should be required to learn or even to work at learning; the problem is that the entire structure is designed to achieve a certain score on the standardized test, actual education be damned.

Sure, this disastrous system might optimistically be fixed at some future point, but in the meantime it will have seriously reduced the value of public schooling for millions of children.

[LibDemAlways]

49. 10 hours a week would be a luxury for the kids at

my daughter's high school. 8 hours a night is more like it, with precious little "down" time on weekends. Every freshman at school, along with his or her parents, meets with a counselor at the beginning of the year. My daughter's counselor basically said every kid should be enrolled in as many honors and AP courses as possible because if a kid doesn't get into a prestigious university as a freshman (forget community college) his or her life is basically over. I walked out shaking my head. Talk about unrealistic, stupid, and a prescription for failure. One education fits all. Ridiculous.

[cgrindley]

55. Your daughter's counselor is entirely correct

if a child does not carry a GPA of at least 4, they are NOT going to get into a prestigious university. And with the Republican's criminal mismanagement of the economy, the country's condition is only going to get worse and worse. The lack of a first rate degree will limit a child's future. It is sad but true.

A realistic goal for a halfway clever child should be to graduate high school with an AA in hand.

[LibDemAlways]

59. Not every student is capable of doing college level work in high

school. Not every student is going to attend a prestigious university right out of high school. Not every student is capable of a 4.0. Not every kid is a multi-talented genius.

There is nothing wrong with taking normal college prep courses in high school and then attending community college for a couple of years. Many students need time to figure out what they want to do before they move on.

Putting 14 and 15 year olds into an educational pressure cooker, demanding straight A's, insisting that they do nothing but study all day and all night taking college-level courses may be the norm in your world, but it isn't in mine.

[Igel]

41. I like standardized testing for some things.

With alternative testing strategies available, standardized testing can show who's failed to meet the absolute, bedrock requirements for reading and math.

I know. My 11th grade class had a hell of a time with a new test being, well, tested. Something like a 40% fail rate after a few weeks' time devoted to test prep. Truly difficult stuff--reading prescriptions (take 2 tablets 3x daily ... how many tablets per day?), maps, and recipes. Some schools found it a waste of time, and the teachers' union said it was pointless; some found that too many students failed, and the teachers' union was embarrassed. The test wasn't implemented for succeeding classes. Parents had the same kind of responses--"Why did my little Johnny waste time on this test?" and "Who dares to say my little Johnny can't read?"

My class valedictorian failed the reading portion of the test, it turned out. There was a mismatch between the curriculum and the test: The test assumed literacy, the school didn't require it.

I like the idea of basic standardized tests. No special prep should be needed. And if the schools need to "teach to the test", in such cases that would be good. Learning to add fractions is better than being in band, and avoiding poisoning your kid by not understanding a prescription is of greater use than making bad ceramics.

[Kajsa]

42. It is a disaster and should be abolished ASAP.

As a substitute teacher, grades 7-12 I have seen the
following since NCLB was instated.

1. Teachers no longer teaching to the subject, but
teaching to the test(s) and wasting precious classtime
preparing for them.

2.Students who are overwhelmed by the many tests they
are required to take.

3. Special Education students in tears over the tests they
cannot get waivers for that are beyond their cognitive
abilities.

4. The attempted murder of critical thinking, something
every teacher strives to instill in his/her students.

I use to Home Teach several students last spring and summer.
These students are home bound for a period of time and the
Home Teaching provides for their instruction when they are
unable to attend classes.

When my district lowered the boom last September, I was no longer
employed as a Home Teacher. NCLB requires that teachers be credentialed
in every subject taught. I have a CA clear credential in Language Arts and
CLAD certification to teach ESL.
Therefore, I was only allowed to Home Teach English and ESL.
A Home Teacher teaches English( or ESL), math, science and social studies.
I would be required to have a credential in each subject to continue.

This is not a problem at the elementary level with Multiple Subject credentials,
but at the secondary level we have Single Subject credentials.

My district will not pay to have one teacher for each subject, they
will pay for one teacher to teach all four.

So, I lost all my students and now I'm back to subbing in the classrooms.

I lost the best job I had due to NCLB.

;(

[Fire Walk With Me]

50. Sure. It gave Bush and friends a really big laugh, us thinking that they'd actually do something

for the country. All of their actions are for themselves. Ones that appear to be for others, are mockery.

[TZ]

51. I'm going to take a different perspective on this I think

NCLB I think, has exaceberated problems that have been building for years in the public school system..The heavy reliance on standardized testing.
My school experience predates Bush by a long shot (I graduated HS in 1987) but they had just started putting in multiple heavy standardized testing. I very clearly remember FAILING a standardized writing test in early high school. I'm the daughter of an English teacher. I had gotten A's and B's in English my entire school career.
You've seen my posts. I think its fair to say I am a pretty good writer! It was a poorly designed tests and after being allowed to retake it under more fair conditions, I scored in the top 5 percentile!
What NCLB has done has made more of these crap tests mandatory, and put schools under HEAVY pressure to make their percentages.
It also has encouraged a lot of cheating by the schools...There have been multiple issues where I live with teachers getting extra "help" to their students to pass these bullshit tests. Bear in mind that Montgomery County, MD is almost always tops (or near the top) in public education in this country and is very wealthy. I can't imagine what this is doing to the inner city school districts who don't have the resources to deal with this crap.
I watched my mom get burned out by teaching well before NCLB. I am VERY glad she never had to teach during this bullshit program.

[earth mom]

52. HELL NO! NCLB is CRAP!

:puke:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. NCLB has done one good thing.

It seperates smart people from stupid people.



Stupid people support NCLB.

[Thothmes]

58. It proves

The federal government has no business in public education.

[cgrindley]

61. WTF! The federal government is the ONLY entity that should control education

who are you, John Galt?

[Thothmes]

70. self deleted

[Thothmes]

73. Read the Constitution of the United States

Nowhere in the Constitution is education reserved for the Federal Government nor denied to the States to exercise. The 10th Amendment of the Constitution applies. NCLB is a good example of Federal Government involvement in Education. Imagine, if the Feds controlled all education in the country what it would look like the next time the Repubs control both houses of Congress, the Presidency, and the SC. Think FEMA, think creationism as the only approved context for Science. Imagine what the Repub ordered history text books will look like. Thanks but no thanks. What you really want out of the Feds is money, not policy or structure. Unfortunately the Federal Government generally follows the golden rule. He that hath the gold makes the rules.

[cgrindley]

75. Look, some people want the end of the 2nd amendment, I'd like to see

specifically taken away from the states.

[Thothmes]

76. I'd like to see

Why take educational responsibility away from the States. NCLB was foisted off on them thy the Federal Government.

[bemildred]

60. Mainly it has furthered the cause of destroying our free public education system.

Which is what it was supposed to do.

[teacher gal]

63. ABOLITION!!

Please go to http://www.educatorroundtable.org to sign petition to dismantle NCLB. The more signatures we have, the more powerful the message that this outrageously destructive law must go.

PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE PETITION!

Every one of the 16 petition points are backed by research, not rhetoric.

[YvonneCa]

92. Yes...

...sadly true.

[LostInAnomie]

62. It has done what it was meant to do.

Its main purpose was to provide a clear and quantified path towards dismantling public education. The eventual result will be yet another tiered system that segregates the poor and disadvantaged from the rich and well connected.

When your product is a human being with free will and their own consciousness a 100% success rate is an unreasonable goal. You wouldn't tell a psychologist that if all of their patients don't become psychologically healthy within a year they will lose their license. You wouldn't tell a police chief that if they don't completely eliminate crime from their city their dept. will be shut down. You wouldn't tell a social worker that unless all of their cases become completely functional citizens they will be fired. You wouldn't tell a probation officer that their cases have to have a 0% recidivism rate. So why do we think that it is perfectly acceptable to tell teachers that their students (that come in with any conceivable disability or background) all must pass or their jobs are in jeopardy?

[teacher gal]

64. You are so very right

KICK KICK KICK this thread

[teacher gal]

66. SIGN PETITION TO DISMANTLE NCLB!

Go here: http://www.educatorroundtable.org

[teacher gal]

67. kick

[teacher gal]

68. one more

for both of the nclb threads

[Faux pas]

69. Bush Profiteers collect billions from NCLB

http://www.diatribune.com/bush-profiteers-collect-billions-nclb

[Echo In Light]

71. Thanks for the link

[Faux pas]

81. You're welcome, for sure.

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. To answer your question, NO

We are now giving tests to see if they can pass the test. They are called prep tests. The district takes the results and tells us what to teach until the real test is given.

We have no recess at my school. Also no instrumental music. Last year we didn't teach Science or Social Studies. This year the state is testing 5th grade in Science so 5th graders are getting Science.

And yes, even kindergarteners have homework every night. They told us to assign homework on the weekends but I refused and got a talkin to. :)

Oh we also have vacation work. The kids took home a packet over Thanksgiving and Christmas and if they didn't do it, their 2nd quarter grade was docked.


This law so sucks. I could go on but I think you get the idea.

[Snarkturian Clone]

74. I wouldn't be surprised if NCLB is an attempt to privatize or

federally control schools when the physical impossibilty of 99% at grade level by 2013 occurs.

[LWolf]

77. It depends on whether you think the destruction of public education

in favor of privatization has merit.

I don't, so my answer is no, it hasn't accomplished anything of merit.

It has:

dumbed down curriculum
forced public ed into one-size-fits all instructional methodology
enriched republican friendly publishing and testing corporations
further demonized public education to the general public
enriched private companies that "train" educators in how to comply with the law
enriched private tutoring companies

made public school classrooms a more hated place by students, and now by many teachers, than ever before.

[mwb970]

78. My middle-school niece is being misundereducated.

Since NCLB, everything is tests, tests, tests and scores, scores, scores. In my book, that's not education.

[Kerrytravelers]

83. If we were to test kids throughout the year to see the progression, then we would have a better idea...

if how they are learning. However one set of tests at the end of the year just shows who can take standardized tests and who can't. It is only a snapshot of a kid over a couple of days.

I am in education. I've taught Kindergarten, a second-third combo, third grade, seventh/eighth grade English and now I'm in an alternative K-12 Program. I've jumped every hoop NCLB has asked me to jump. And it has taken a ton of my time. I'll do it for my kids, but my particular population isn't one who excels on tests because of their life circumstances. However, if their actual yearly progress were recorded and then these results were used to create a more meaningful education for them, then I would walk thought fire on glass barefoot if that is what it took.

NCLB, in its current incarnation, is a mess. However, if it were tweaked based on suggestions and input from those of us in the trenches, NCLB could be far more beneficial to our kids and honest in it's reporting to the public.

[YvonneCa]

93. I agree with everything you say...

...here. I will be leaving the profession after 24 years because of NCLB. I hope the public school system survives.

[coalition_unwilling]

87. It's probably created (more) job security for education bean counters -n/t

[sabra]

90. No Child Left Behind: Neil Bush cashes in too

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/8/125556/7027

[callous taoboy]

91. 3rd grade teacher here says maybe.

Depends on who is calling what meritorious. If you think the goal of NCLB is to create more dropouts it's been hugely successful, as statistics show that children who repeat a grade level are likely to become dropouts. We've had at least 30 3rd graders, most of them non-white, repeat third grade in the last 7 years.

If you think the goal is to drive educators out of the classroom NCLB has done a fine job of that.

If you think that stress creates an ideal learning environment than NCLB is the program of choice.

If you enjoy chasing your tail as a teacher and getting stressed out when a child comes down with the flu and has to miss a few days of heavy test-prep, come join the NCLB circus.

If you enjoy seeing second grade children crying over a reading benchmark test, we could use some kleenex here.

If the goal is to bring children up a full year and a half in reading in third grade only to tell them that they failed the reading test by one point (and then they get that defeated look on their faces), we are doing good work.

NCLB may be one of the most damaging domestic programs to come out of the Bush admin.

[Sabriel]

94. It has created more jobs for teachers...

...as those fed up with NCLB leave teaching for (hopefully) less stressful pursuits.

When I started working with future teachers in 2002, the turnover rate for teachers leaving the profession was 50% after 7 years.

Now it's 50% after 5 years.

You can also look at NCLB legislation as a handy way for the armed forces to get their hands on student records, as parents have to be aware of the opt-out process in order to remove their child from recruiter access.

*uckers.