If the Clintons never existed, where would we be?

[pathansen]

Most likely there would be no more democracy. And Obama probably would not even be running because there would be no HOPE left.

Of course, the Clintons are not perfect but who is? Obviously, Bill Clinton over-reacted in South Carolina out of loyalty to his wife, whom he felt had been, for many months, unfairly attacked while the media appeared to be leaving Obama alone.

Again there appears to be a double standard, just like the impeachment proceedings of Clinton for having an affair while there have been strong suspicions that Bush repeatedly had sex with a male prostitute, Kennedy had orgies with many women and so on and so on..

So, why are the Clintons always being hated and humiliated even by their own party? Even worse than Bush?

[Kolesar]

1. Welcome to the forum and all that :hi:

But this is "kind of weak".

[Perry Logan]

2. I would be running around, energetically defending nobody.

It looks to me like there are a few people who have a profound and irrational hatred of the Clintons. To them, the Clintons are villains, and they will absolutely not hear otherwise.

It's a bizarre phenomenon. Anti-Clinton people uncritically believe all accusations made against the Clintons, no matter how many times these accusations get debunked. This has been my observation. It's as if the Clintons have been tried and convicted in some secret court.

No matter what the Clintons say or do, these people hold it as further proof of their inherent wickedness. Hillary could walk on water, and it would somehow count against her.

Anti-Clintonites also believe that everyone in the world suffers from their strange disorder, even though most people like the Clintons just fine.

[mwb970]

7. The bloom is off the Clinton rose.

...most people like the Clintons just fine.

Um, not so much now. Even huge fans of Bill (like me) are disgusted with their tactics in this primary. Longtime supporters are peeling away by the day.

[lapfog_1]

8. How is that NAFTA and WTO working out for you?

I don't hate Bill Clinton. I think he was a very charming and highly intelligent person, possibly one of the "best and brightest" to ever sit in the oval office.

But quite a number of policies that he either allowed or actually championed have been disastrous for the majority of Americans, especially middle class Americans. He bought into a economic philosophy that was risky (see, we didn't NEED those manufacturing jobs because the new economy was going to be information management, so it wouldn't be a problem to ship those jobs overseas to people who will work for peanuts and, thereby, lower the cost of goods for us, while we all transition to the information age through further education). It sounded good, but it was a gamble. A gamble that I would argue we have lost. We, as a county, have gone from middle class union manufacturing jobs to minimum or near minimum wage service and retail jobs. Not the higher paying information technology jobs that they thought would appear (well, the did appear for a while, only never the number to replace the lost manufacturing jobs... and then the information technology jobs disappeared as well!).

So, while Bush has a lot of blame for the current state of affairs here, Clinton laid the groundwork. I believe Bill's intentions were good, and Bush's are evil. But both started us down this path we are on.

[bowens43]

3. what a ridiculous post.

No more democracy if there were no Clintons? That's just stupid.

A better question is why are the Clintons using swiftboat tactics on a fellow Democrat. The answer is painfully obvious, they will do or say anything for power.

[Demeter]

4. I'd Be in Another Country

I got suckered into staying because of Clinton...and I regret every minute of it.

[JTFrog]

5. Yes the whole country would have gone to shit if those two humans hadn't

graced us with their presence.

People seriously mistake "hate" for the revulsion we have for their policy. Let's ignore NAFTA, Welfare reform and Iraq Sanctions. Let's ignore voting for IWR and handing Dim Son a blank check for war. Let's ignore voting for Kyl-Lieberman and the Patriot Act. Let's ignore the fact that Bill made a promise to investigate Bush Sr. while he was running and then did nothing while in office, laying the foundation for Bush Jr. Let's ignore the fact that Bill repealed Glass-Steagall opening the door to our economic crises by effectively getting rid of the banking safeguards FDR put in place. Let's ignore the fact that Mrs. Clinton thinks that video games are more dangerous to my kids than sending them to the front lines.

If you ignore all those things I guess you could say they've brought us truckloads of democracy.


If you want to call my revulsion "hatred", then so be it. My revulsion for a platform of Profit Trumps Healthcare, Profit Trumps Domestic Jobs, Power Trumps Peace, doesn't make me a hater. It makes me a democrat.

[lapfog_1]

6. Say what???

The Clintons SAVED democracy?

Care to back that up with some facts? Any facts?

Yes, Bill won in 1992, and was re-elected in 1996. But seriously, were you around then?

We could have run a cutout cardboard candidate and won. GHW Bush was so out of touch and the economy was about to run off the rails. Sheesh. And in 1996 the pukes ran Bob Dole... Bob Dole! They might as well have run a bowel of oatmeal.

Bill Clinton did a few things, first he is charming, second, he is probably one of the smartest people to ever hold the office. Third, he did a lot of things that the republicans WANTED (which is why, I think, they hate him so much)... NAFTA, WTO, welfare reform, etc, etc.

I think he set back the progressive movement in this country by a generation. But he got two terms out of it.

But saved Democracy?

Let me counter by saying Bill Clinton (and his personal behavior) DIRECTLY led to the last seven years of BushCo... and this Bush has done more to destroy democracy in this country than anyone anytime since the founding of this country. We do not have the right of habeas corpus thanks to *. That's a right that's been around since 1679... before our country was begun. And it is no longer a guarantee.

You want to talk about losing Democracy, talk about Bush. And if you talk about Bush, you have to talk about how Bush was (s)elected. And that, in no small part, was the fault of Bill Clinton.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. I wouldn't have an avatar

:cry: