AMERICA -- In a Word! (nominate/suggest your own)

[Land Shark]

I've written the following poem (if one can call it that) to describe our country in one, two, three, four, five and six words.

My approach below shows a focus especially at the 3, 4 5 and 6 word level with citizen control of elections. If this be a "bias", it is because of my conclusion after working this issue for years now that if a people such as the American people doesn't have guaranteed the ability to remove a cheating or criminal incumbent with the voting systems and elections systems in place, that people is not "free" because a free people must be able to change its politicians AT WILL, particularly when the politicians happen to be cheaters or corrupt.

So, the test of whether an elections/voting system will reliably remove a corrupt incumbent(s) is the appropriate test for freedom or for a free people. This is related directly to the inalienable right under the Declaration of Independence to "alter or abolish" the forms of government, which is the ultimate foundation of the rights of a free people.

Of course, secret vote counting on optical scan and touch screen voting machines fails completely this test for freedom, because secrecy always means Zero Accountability.

To me, the core of America is Self-Government, because as co-rulers we must be free (we're at the top of the food chain), we must be equal (no discrimination between co-rulers) and we must have democracy (in order to rule ourselves or self-govern). "Kicking the bums out" means changing our servants whenever we want (politicians), which is why they're called public servants in the first place.

But, what does America mean to YOU, in one, two, 3, 4, 5 or 6 words? (I'm looking for what it is SUPPOSED to be as opposed to a critique over what it's become). Thanks for any and all opinions in this form on what is RIGHTFULLY ours.

“America, in a Word”

In a word: Self-Government

In two words: Representative Democracy (or)
Free People

In three words: We the People (or)
We’re the Deciders (or)
Citizen controlled elections (or)
Freedom, Equality, Democracy

In four words: Judging Juries, Deciding Elections (or)
Inalienable Rights trump everything (or)
Kick the Bums Out!

In five words: Citizen control of all elections; (or)
Goverment's Instituted to serve People (or)
People Being Their Own Governors

In six words: Of people, by people, for people; (or)
Rights Government Guaranteed, not Government Granted

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Experiment

[Land Shark]

11. Experiment was a word used a lot in the late 1700s, thanks. nt

[depakid]

2. Unsustainable

[Land Shark]

13. what about AMERICA at its core is unsustainable? (present practices not irreducibly "American")

[depakid]

36. Wastefulness

and the arrogance to think that less than 5% of the world's population is entitled to consume over 23% of the world's energy resources at its present rate in order to fuel a a complex suburban "lifestyle" that's utterly dependent on declining petroleum and natural gas resources.

While this isn't unique, there is a fundamentally AMERICAN process at work- one that de Toqueville 170 years ago: American exceptionalism, which in its present manifestation involves the willful failure to accept that America is subject to the same natural and macroeconomic laws as everyone else on the planet.

And, just as many other societies of the past, America's system has reached a point of dimishing marginal returns on complexity- and will contract, or more probably collapse.

[2 Much Tribulation]

39. "Exceptionalism" starts to get close to the point

of the question,

but the ideals of this country, and every founder from Franklin to Abigail Adams to Jefferson and Paine all said -- they were fighting for the freedom of "mankind" -- they didn't set themselves out as betters of the world or as exceptional. They INTENTIONALLY started a process with ideals lofty enough to take centuries to achieve, and expected to see the end of slavery in their lifetimes based on those ideals (it took a few decades more).

I don't say there's never been exceptionalism, i just really wonder, and tend not to think, that it comes from the core american ideas at all. (though present in america, to be sure) Can you trace it back to the actual ideas that found the country?

[depakid]

59. It's a cultural root cause of many symptoms.

Some are simple things, such as the America's refusal to adopt the uniform system of wieghts -and some are more complicated ones, such as a fragmented and dysfunctional health care "system."

Much of the problem does indeed go back to the founders- and it's structural. Those lofty ideas put in place a governmental system that's difficult to change in response to modern developments. The corrupting influence of coporate money that infects the political process, for example cannot be reigned in (at least not for a decade or more, with the current federal courts) without a Constitutional Amendment. Nor can election reforms such as proportional representation and instant runoff break the lock of the two major parties.

Yet gaining the supermajorities for any such Amendment is well near impossible- and will remain so, at least until the damage done is so severe (think Great Depression) that it's not likely to be undone by a society lacking cheap petroleum, natural gas -and transportation indrastructure.

Given these difficulties embedded in the system, one can see that it was wise that other nations (Liberia and the Philipines aside) chose not to emulate the American model of the late 18th Century.

[Land Shark]

62. we clearly differ in what constitutes the core of America; it's not weights and measures

nor the actions of usurpers who use the names of freedom and democracy to attack nations like Iraq. I can understand the confusion we have here, i say, as to something like Iraq, (that's not us) and expect better and call the war a violation of our own standards), while others will just say that "bad is us" and drown in despair. In any case, what's your route to a better day? The most important point I think is that if you abandon the american ideas, such as by defining it so broadly as to include every bad thing, then you lose a lot of legal, argumentative, moral, rhetorical and historical power, and you start from zero with disconnected philosophical/political ideas. THAT'S AN ENORMOUS PRICE TO PAY. I suggest that if there's a way to separate the american ideals from crimes done in their name it behooves us enormously to do so.

[depakid]

82. "if there's a way to separate the american ideals from crimes done in their name

it behooves us enormously to do so."

I agree- however, I don't see the American ideals of the 21st Century to be all that seperable from the ills that the populace is willing to inflict on itself, on its children- or the rest of the world.

As much as I despise Dick Cheney, seems to me that he spoke for a substantial majority in the states when he said that the "American way of life is non-negotiable." Yet paradoxically, it's also unsustainable- and one can see this pattern throughout history in the literature of decline and/or collape by scientific writers like Joeseph Tainter and Jared Diamond - and on the socio-economic side by Paul Kennedy and Kevin Phillips (to name but a few).

My route to a better day- wish I could say that I saw one for the states, but I don't. It seems to me that the institutions designed to solve the sorts of problems in societies America will face no longer respond to feedback in a timely or appropriate manner, as those in other nations and cultures have in the past.

Having been been out of the country for a while- and perhaps soon, for a very long while, has only reinforced these conclusions- largely through observing how Australians are coming to grips with their major challenges. It's very different down under, though I have to say, I see quite a few vestiges of the way America (and Americans) used to be.

[Land Shark]

87. If, as you say, ideals are not separable from "ills" you're right, you're in perma-hell

But i think you're giving a very small percentage of american society (neocons) enormous power. The power to stain permanently the good.... and on and on. It's certainly not logically COMPELLED -- I and others on this thread are, i think, aware of all the same general problems and ills you're aware of without being quite as despondent about it.

[tekisui]

3. Dynamic.

[Land Shark]

19. Thanks, it's especially DYNAMIC when people ACT like Self-Governing rulers, not "doomed" Slaves!! nt

[rjones2818]

4. Doomed.

[Land Shark]

14. What about American IDEALS (not their violation) makes america Doomed?

Because if its not the ideals at fault, then there's at the very least a chance to get back on track

[rjones2818]

21. What are 'American Ideals?'

Are we looking at the utopian vision that many have in their heads of a free and functioning Democratic Republic, open to everyone, where everyone has a fair chance? If that utopian vision is what we're talking about then we're not doomed.

On the other hand, if it's what 'American Ideals' are actually put into place, then I'd say we're doomed. We a warmongering country that tries to eat everybody else for dinner. And now that the parasitic corps have eaten our insides, there's not much more for us to do than to collapse. If that happens, maybe we'll learn a lesson and head back toward the utopian vison. Somehow I doubt it.

[Land Shark]

24. Because you doubt it, there's one less person to make it happen

The rights, principles and ideals are, in order of power/importance:

Declaration of Independence:

1. INALIENABLE RIGHTS (can never be lost, waived, or taken)
2. CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS (can be amended via a difficult procedure)
3. COMMON LAW RIGHTS (court case law)
4. STATUTORY RIGHTS (passed by Congress or Legislature)

"Governments are instituted to SECURE/(GUARANTEE) these rights" -- Decl. of Independence.

Here's where folks really lose it: OF COURSE YOUR RIGHTS GET VIOLATED. GET OVER IT. BUT IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS AND YOU HAVE A RIGHT YOU HAVE A POWERFUL CLAIM/ARGUMENT/GRIPE/CAUSE. On the other hand, if something bad happens and you don't have rights/ideals/principles to argue, you've got nothing of any power.

All legal power & rhetorical power proceeds from concepts of rights and principles. This is way too blithely dismissed as "utopian" or "mere" ideals. The ABOLITION movement, the women's suffrage movement and the modern civil rights movement all succeeded by arguing the ideals of America, especially the declaration of independence.

In general, Ideals, of which rights are one major species of ideals, are EVERYTHING that really matters in terms of POWER (other than the Force of GUNS, which is not a moral force unless backed up completely by just, rightful ideals). Ideals: They're the only things that get people out of bed in the morning to truly DO things. (even if that ideal is not "equality" or "world peace" but "pragmatism" or "hedonism")

Ideals, even if never achievable completely and therefore "utopian" are the GUIDE-STARS that we SET OUR DIRECTION BY and without which we would be LOST. The whole deal of dissing the "utopian" is deeply damaging to all that we believe in here on DU because an ideal need not be achievable in order to be profoundly important in setting a good direction.

Should we abandon "honesty" as utopian? Or use it as a guidestar for our direction to be set by, knowing that none of us are perfect?

[2 Much Tribulation]

26. How indeed do we move closer to ideals if folks don't Advocate them?

this whole "hypocrisy" complaint reminds me of a saying

"Powerlessness Corrupts"

[DJ13]

5. Bankrupt nm

[warren pease]

6. Dumbfuckistan

You can even find it on the map these days.






wp

[Captain Angry]

7. Incorporated.

[Extend a Hand]

9. great answer! n/t

[Land Shark]

16. We should have parallel tracks, one for negative, one for positive nt

"Doomed" is not a description of the character or nature of something. ANYTHING can be "doomed"

[Extend a Hand]

8. drowning

[Land Shark]

20. It's in the NATURE of america to drown? huh? Couldn't "drowned" describe hundreds of things?

[Extend a Hand]

57. yes drowning...

drowning in debt
drowning at home in Katrina
drowning in useless crap from China
drowning the government in a bathtub
drowning in work without any raises
drowning in religious fundamentalism
drowning in blood in Iraq

[Land Shark]

76. Just reading your WORDS, I don't relate because I don't know WHAT is drowning.

Does this thing you respect and wish wouldn't be drowned in all these ways have a name or names? (more specific than just the vague "america")?

[Extend a Hand]

96. Drowning, in this case, is a metaphor

used to describe the things sinking and killing our government and the citizens of America

The Bush administration is drowning the government in a bathtub (just live Grover wanted)
Americans are drowning in cheap shit from China (purchased on credit)
Americans people are drowning in debt
Our government is drowning in debt (look at the deficit)
Our country is drowning in the blood of Iraqi's dying by the thousands and our soldiers are dying daily for a ruinous war based on lies

Citizens of New Orleans literally not metaphorically drowned in their homes when the government failed to evacuate effectively.

[NMDemDist2]

10. screwed n/t

[Horse with no Name]

12. Failed empire. n/t

[Land Shark]

18. That's what the corporations want, nobody left to regulate them. What we gonna DO about it?

[robinlynne]

23. There's the question.

[Jed Dilligan]

15. Transitional

Between aristocracy and the true democracy of the future.

[Land Shark]

17. It has been a centuries long fight, with setbacks, to make real the promise of the Decl of Indep....

[GCP]

22. Four words - Lowest Common denominator-ruled

[Land Shark]

25. Do you realize that you're describing YOURSELF then, under all operative law and principle here?

[dysfunctional press]

27. Disingenuous.

nt

[2 Much Tribulation]

29. well I'm learning: People value a quick chance to post but don't follow the OP or read it

Or perhaps the logical approach above to show why we clearly are not free has everyone above depressed?

If that's true for anyone, i'd point out it is like waking up from a dream if we just reorient ourselves to the rights and ideals that have been massively violated, that 90% plus of Americans believe in, but are not being respected.

All arguments are NOT born equal. one based on rights or core american ideals is FAR more powerful. It's even what bad guys use to motivate americans for war. But the ideals themselves or the rights themselves are not corrupted by their misuse. (not when we think clearly about the fact that ideas, if they remain defined the same, are pure it is the LOGIC or REASON in applying them that breaks down, among humans...)

[dysfunctional press]

37. excuse me- but you asked for one word answers, as well as longer ones...

and i chose the one word that i think best sums up what this country is.

[2 Much Tribulation]

44. ok, I've NO IDEA what's specifically disingenuous? it's intention to prosper?

I can't speak for the OP, but although you're not the worst, there's a pattern in this thread I'm reacting to: Nobody will say WHAT IT IS that they are so upset about that they describe their own country so negatively.

But if we won't uphold and advocate for that which is being violated, WTF are we crying for? If we don't uphold that, why should anyone else?

[dysfunctional press]

52. it's a country that pretends to be one thing, when in fact it isn't.

for instance- a lot of people consider this a christian nation(not i), but in the way it treats it's own poor and distressed, the way it conducts it's foreign policies, etc...it just isn't very christian in it's actions.

the statue of liberty, inscribed with "give me your poor, your weak, your teeming masses yearning to be free", but in action, we don't want them.

elections are supposed to express the will of the people, but the supreme court says that the votes must NOT be counted.

and so on...

i thought that it would be rather self-explanatory.

[Land Shark]

63. because if nobody (in decent numbers) SAYS "this ideal's violated" and sticks with it, there's no

social pressure to stick to those ideals.

The taboo against NAMING the ideals violated is very interesting (on this thread as a whole). Americans who dont' know the progressive code-words and political-speak will only see disconnected floating anger. If you anchor the anger to an ideal that has not been followed it would make sense to regular americans, but it won't make sense in the manner of many posts in this thread.

[alfredo]

28. Home

[2 Much Tribulation]

30. No place like Home!

[alfredo]

32. And I want to keep it home sweet home.

[kentuck]

31. LOST

n/t

[2 Much Tribulation]

40. what got lost?

[NeedleCast]

33. Evolving

[Zorra]

34. Free.

This land is supposed to be free.

[Booster]

35. Once.

Once was a great country; once was admired by the world over; once our government worked for us - well, you get the idea.

[2 Much Tribulation]

41. and now that your govt servants are no longer faithful, your attitude is what?

[Booster]

58. My attitude is that there is way too much corruption in government

on both sides, and we need to start cleaning it up, first by getting rid of the lobbiest, and then making people who break laws accountable once again. By somehow allowing people who aren't rich to actually win an election. Our government is broken and if we don't do something about it soon, we won't even recognize the country as we once were - a good country; a fair country; a compassionate country - I want the old country back NOW.

[Land Shark]

75. Me too. Right on. nt

[Xenotime]

38. Raped

[2 Much Tribulation]

42. What suffered this Fate and what should we DO about it?

[Xenotime]

55. * & impeachment for starters

[Wizard777]

43. CORRUPT

[Homer Wells]

45. Freefalling!! n/t

[ToeBot]

46. Delusional. nt

[adnelson60087]

47. Dream.

As the old expression goes, a man who can dream can do anything.

[Land Shark]

78. Great one. Quoting Al Gore, I wonder if america's exported so much hope that it sucked DU dry????

"As a nation, our greatest export has always been hope: Hope that through the rule of law people can be free to pursue their dreams, that democracy can supplant repression and that justice, not power will be the guiding force in society. Our moral authority in the world derived from the hope anchored in the rule of law." -Al Gore

If the folks in this thread haven't found a way to segregate the above spirit from the crimes committed in America's name, then you've somehow allowed yourself to be placed in a spiritual/political ghetto. But nobody has to stay in them projects, man. We can all step up to what's been often called human dignity, human rights, and the spirit of justice.

[SledDriver]

48. Finished.

n/t

[Dhalgren]

49. Dead...

[SoCalDem]

50. Shop-a-liciously destitute, but thoroughly infotained..n/t

[GuvWurld]

51. Independent

This is a great thread, Paul. Too bad not everyone went with the flow of the OP. To be expected, I think.

Anyway, the one word for me would be: independent. After all, this is what we declared ourselves to be. I think independence is a value and a virtue in many aspects of life, as well as on the grander national scale. I associate independence with the opposite of futility and stuck-ness. When you are independent, your hands are never tied, nothing is off the table, you are beholden to no one, and anything is possible. When everyone experiences this same sense and degree of independence, equally, we will have a free society.

So if I was putting it into two words, I guess I would say: free society. The society aspect is just as crucial as independence in the founding ideals and visions. We were bequeathed a social compact to govern how We The People shall run our affairs, our society.

Three words must then be: We The People. The question raised by the OP invokes a spirit suggesting to me that We The People, living in a free society, would independently make choices that favor the greater good. It is presently impossible for me to imagine this as a reality, but as a dream-state ideal, free societies would have disincentives for greed and reward thinking and behavior that is for the greater good.

In four words: for the greater good.

[Land Shark]

66. Independence is an excellent word addition

My response to your not seeing the "greater good" present right now...

The whole republican "experiment" of 1776 was based on the concepts and expectations of citizen Virtue. That virtue is not hereditary, as Thomas Paine pointed out. It must be learned. So who is teaching, repeating, reinforcing the importance of the greater good? If we wish this to exist it has to be reinforced continually and in various ways.

What's so fascinating about this thread is the seeming REFUSAL (seeming, anyway) to identify the greater good by name. If we as progressives won't name what it is that's being violated that is our greater good, what right do we have to expect that ideal to truly live and be operative?

Officials are supposed to, and often do, sign an oath to UPHOLD the constitution and principles of democracy. This is much more the merely "complying" with them. it's more like revering, repeating, frequently recurring to these principles.

The greater good won't come back in force until we the people reinforce that as a social norm. Here's the thing: constitutional principles, ideals, whatever, NONE OF THIS is self-executing or self-enforcing. There's lots of outright laws on the books that are never enforced because prosecutors just have no interest in them. More than anything, it's all a matter of passion and politics and teaching others democracy -- and upholding whatever greater goods there are that we believe in.

It's like the Soviet constitution -- it reads better with more rights than the US constitution, but in practice it was never half as protective of liberty. They had perhaps the law, but lacked the SPIRIT of JUSTICE -- without which law is, as Jefferson said, just the tool of tyrants.

That SPIRIT OF JUSTICE is an almost purely SOCIAL thing, based on friends and countrymen reinforcing ideals in each other, and in the end it is more powerful than law, and law, without it, is mere tyranny.

So this is why I try today to get my friends on DU to UPHOLD their ideals, not just cry about 'em.

on edit: the bare-breasted statue covered up by John Ashcroft at the Dept of Justice was titled "Spirit of Justice"

[D-Sooner]

53. Beautiful

[Land Shark]

69. America the Beautiful- yes it sounds like a great song! :) That's most certainly part of America

[Echo In Light]

54. Brainwashed

[democrat2thecore]

56. Diverse -nt

[El Pinko]

60. Plutocracy.

NT

[Land Shark]

68. In actuality it appears so, but is this Right-ful, in your opinion? No one's rights violated by it?

[El Pinko]

80. Is it right? No. But America was founded as a plutocracy and still is one.

It took more than 150 years to get to the point we reached in the 60s and 70s - women and blacks having the vote, a broad middle class, labor rights, and now much of that has already been lost again.

I thought we were supposed to describe America in a word. Plutocracy was the most apt I could think of.

One could say things like "social justice" or "democracy", those are great ideals, but they really only get token lip service in the Constitution.

Getting even a modicum of those things in the US requires fighting tooth and nail for them, and eternal vigilance, because the plutocrats are very creative at usurping them again and again.

[2 Much Tribulation]

83. no, it was founded on the most egalitarian PRINCIPLES the world had ever seen, the plutocracy FOUGHT

the principles with all that it could -- the plutocracy (surely one developed, don't you think) over centuries of monarchy that could not be wiped out overnight??

[El Pinko]

85. Only white male landowners could vote when it was founded.

And began due to a revolution that came from the top down - wealthy landowners who objected to the taxation by the crown.

No, I don't think the plutocracy developed over time. The founding fathers were all wealthy men and were constantly fretting about how to prevent rule by "the mob" (IE regular wroking men and women). Their primary concern in drafting the Constitution was protection of their own property rights.

Have you ever read Zinn's "People's History of the United States"? It's an eye-opener...

[Land Shark]

88. "white male landowners" = NOT true. Vermont for example had no property requirement

and outlawed slavery immediately after the Revolution. What's interesting here is that it was the only state that elected delegates directly from the people to a state constitutional convention instead of using pre-existing power structures (and the establishment was the core TOry power center in many ways). So the case of Vermont is a good example of the spirit of the revolution, unmodified by buffering state governmental power structures.

Yes I've read Howard Zinn and while he has some good facts for the "other side of the story" and they very much need to be told, his perspective is at the same time not balanced, it's a "voice" the "people's history". Well except in the case of vermont i don't recall Zinn telling that story because it doesn't lead in the direction of some of the other stories i guess.

[El Pinko]

93. Yes, and there's the context of the times.

Obviously, same-sex marriage and a "living wage" law were not on the agenda in any country in the 1700's. The US Constitution was undoubtedly a remarkable achievement for its time.

But I really don't see how anyone could characterize the US as anything but a nation founded by plutocrats, with the interests of plutocrats being front and center. The fact that there was still a lot of free land for the taking and relatively high level of personal freedom made it an attractive destination to millions of immigrants for a long time, despite the young government's bias in favor of white landowners. But now that they're no longer making free land, and very few of us are living off of our own crops, and instead depend on plutocrats for jobs (IE sustenance), the government's plutocratic bias becomes a lot more onerous.

I disagree that Zinn's perspective is unbalanced. He states explicitly that the point of "People's History" is to present the perspectives of the masses, of the little people, of the natives - all of those perspectives that are utterly omitted from school textbooks and mainstream history books. He doesn't claim to be presenting a complete picture of America's history -rather he's simply trying to fill in the pieces that are usually left out, because they do tell volumes.

[Land Shark]

107. Try reading Thom Hartmann's What Would Jefferson Do

It's a better balanced treatment. Though the "omitted" (as you say) "people's history" is certainly relevant, and doesn't mean that nothing else is important or relevant. The declaration of independence, in terms of world influence, is still page for page the most important political document in the history of the world, inspiring many revolutions around the world for all the right reasons.

Plutocrats: Nobody made any money during the revolution, none of the signers of the declaration have families with money to this day. THey almost all died or lost huge fortunes. Paine, Jefferson, etc all wanted universal male suffrage (the culture wasn't even talking about women yet), with Paine saying no disfranchisement, ever, except for attempting to disfranchise someone else, and then only for a limited time. He's more progressive than most people are TODAY, and certainly no plutocrat. he's the "architect of the american revolution." Jefferson wanted to give away land to every single male resident, both as a stimulus and as a way to universally enfranchise males. UNIVERSAL ENFRANCHISEMENT is not plutocracy.

[El Pinko]

128. Jefferson was undoubtedly the greatest of the founding fathers...

...largely because of his commitment to democratic principles, which many of the drafters of the Constitution did not share. Jefferson was the exception, not the rule.

[Land Shark]

129. and Ben Franklin, Samuel Adams, Ethan Allen, Thomas Paine (the "architect" of the Revol) and many

more. The PRINCIPLES and rights of this time were set by the group here you'd be most comfortable with. Of course these ahve been resisted at various levels of intensity, but that resistance is to be expected and not attributed to the very ideals being resisted.... And yet some folks on this list will impute the plutocratic resistances to democracy to the core principles of america itself and i find that both wrong and confusion and bad strategy to conflate the two.

[Land Shark]

89. How do i say this? I love your anti-plutocratic values but your trashing of the american revolution

is both factually way incorrect and TRAGIC for your OWN VALUES --- they were incredibly progressive for their time, far more so than you and i are in our time. New Jersey even had some women voting back then. But then 5 states barred catholics from voting. It was a mishmash because suffrage is the exercise of power and a political football.

Let me put it this way: If you are in one of the states that is smaller than average, you get disportionately MORE power and representation both in the US Senate and (in a lesser way) the electoral college. Chances are extremely good you've not taken a lot of action to correct the imbalance in your favor of power in the US senate --- for much the same reasons the founders couldn't solve every single problem overnight that seemed fixed in the culuture or defended by the plutocracy.

slavery ended up taking 685,000 american lives in the civil war. at the time of the revolution's end, everyone was armed, so it wasn't a particularly good time to push the slavery issue. Turned out, there WAS no good time to push that issue and it was going to cost close to a million lives. It would seem a reasonable decision was made to give the ideals of the revolution a compromised start rather than pour more blood.

[cloudbase]

61. On sale now! n/t

[SidDithers]

64. Afraid...nt

Sid

[Land Shark]

72. John Adams wrote: {Fear} renders men.. so stupid and miserable, that Americans....

"Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it."

[qwertyMike]

65. Car Crash

Train wreck
Speaking as an Irish/Canadian

It's there but you can't stop looking.

You should hear what the Europeans think of America.


The guy at the end of the block who won the Lottery and can't shut up about it

[Dukkha]

67. Gluttonous

in every aspect of society. not a single shred of humility remains.

[Land Shark]

73. Here again the ideals at Founding, and 2 centuries thereafter, were thrift not gluttony

Thorsten Veblen, around the turn of the 20th century could write a devastating critique of the conspicuous consumption of the rich of that time, and be very influential and well received almost everywhere. See Theory of the Leisure Class

[HCE SuiGeneris]

70. 1. Idealist

2. Managed individualism

3. Self sufficing security

4. Participatory government, mandatory morality

5. Opportunity to share in prosperity

6. Responsible for self, accountable to all

[Land Shark]

74. Thank you for these interesting suggestions nt

[kpete]

71. 5th

R

[gateley]

77. Screwn.

Edit to say - sorry, I know that's not what your OP is looking for, but I just can't see beyond that at this moment. :(

[Land Shark]

91. That's fine. I think the main idea is that there's a negative and positive way to say it

we can say "Doomed" "drowned" "bullshit" "disingenous" and nobody will know why we're so pissed.

OR

We can NAME what it is that we respect, love and revere and SAY what's happened to that GOOD THING, thereby reinforcing what it is that we care about about, teaching others to care about it, and making sense to outsiders.

WIth the negative example, nobody learns what the "greater goods" are, with the positive approach of naming our own ideals, even as they're violated, we reinforce and strengthen what it is that we believe in, even as it's being damaged...

[bleever]

79. If we're talking about the ideal of America,

then I'd posit this:

1. Freedom.

2. Intrinsic freedom.

3. Freedom for everyone.

4. Balancing everyone's freedoms equally.

5. Stable structures preserving freedom's defense.

6. Defending those structures that preserve freedom.

7. Empowering defenders of the Constitution's essential nature.

8. Defending my own rights requires defending everyone's rights.

9. Come on, can't we just impeach the bastards already?


:thumbsup:

[2 Much Tribulation]

81. Looks like you put some good thought into these! :)

[bleever]

84. Land Shark has made me think

about big questions before, so I have to give him credit for stimulating great conversations about fundamental principles.

(And, welcome to DU!)

[unkachuck]

86. bullshit

[Skittles]

90. Deteriorating

before our eyes

[Land Shark]

94. exactly WHAT is deteriorating? It helps GREATLY to be able to know and say that...

we can say "Doomed" "drowned" "bullshit" "disingenous" and nobody will know why we're so pissed.

OR

We can NAME what it is that we respect, love and revere and SAY what's happened to that GOOD THING, thereby reinforcing what it is that we care about about, teaching others to care about it, and making sense to outsiders.

WIth the negative example, nobody learns what the "greater goods" are, with the positive approach of naming our own ideals, even as they're violated, we reinforce and strengthen what it is that we believe in, even as it's being damaged...

[Skittles]

95. WTF are you talking about?

I am beginning not to recognize my own country - and ANYONE who is paying attention knows WHY.

[Land Shark]

106. WTF I'm talking about is the subject of what IS your country, at bottom?

If it's a collection of flags and govt purchases, that's one thing -- then I can see and understand why you don't recognize your country. You're going down the wrong road if you are imagining yourself substantially better informed about problems going on, I'd say for all practical purposes we're equal in that dept.

However, if it is, as most historians recognize, a collection of rights, ideas and ideals that are the real america -- then we can fairly readily see that those who FAIL or REFUSE to apply those with reason and integrity suffer the failure. IN that case, the problems fall on them and don't reflect on the core of America at all, just on those who have usurped and abused power.

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

92. Deceived.

We've been that way for 7 years. Deceived by big business bottomfeeders, by cronyism, by corruption, by social regression, by neocons, and by the very Chimp thug who was supposedly "elected" to office. He lead us alright...right to hell in a handbasket. We'll be trying to turn that around for at least twice that long. A Dem in the White House will be a start to getting our country back to its former greatness.

[gort]

97. In honor of the 2000 year old man....

Let 'em all go to hell... except for Cave 76!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

98. One Word: Generous

Two words: Magnificent Diversity

Three words: Inspiration to many

Four words: Full of wonderful people

Five words: Full of hopes and dreams

Six words: Free to be whatever you want.

I'm tired as a motherfucker and probably coulda done a lot better, but that'll have to do for now. This is a great country, and one that's filled with some of the most wonderful people on Earth. Goodnight all.

[Zynx]

99. 6 words: Right to be what you want

That's what it should be anyway. I realized the great promise of America when studying Confucian China during the Imperial era there. It was always about "your place" and "duty" "tradition" and all that garbage. Original thinking was discouraged. Conformity was a value. America at its core gives the promise that anyone can live their lives as they see fit. We are sadly moving away from that.

[Zhade]

100. Diseased.

NT!

[The Inquisitive]

101. encumbered, uninnovative, sluggish, crumbling, dishonored, humiliated, lost...

pick any and/or all of the above

[emlev]

102. Two Continents

Ask me about the United States, and I'd have a different answer.

[TheWatcher]

103. 1933

If McCain gets Elected.....

1938

[calimary]

104. Rogue. Heartbreaking. Gone. Shameful. Misguided. Mismanaged.

Wrong-headed. Embarrassment. Disappointing. Changed (and not for the better).

[Quantess]

105. self delete

changed my mind

[2 Much Tribulation]

108. Empowering Individuals

[Echo In Light]

115. Aspects of our society do encompass that. Don't know that I'd define the country that way though

[2 Much Tribulation]

119. Who, and What, defines a country, if not its Ideas and Ideals?

It's supposed to be a government "of laws, not men" -- laws made of by and for the people pursuant to the principle that no man is above the law. i.e. America is a collection of rights ideas and ideals and that's it.... The first country ever founded on ideas and not a race, or a family lineage of rule by "divine right", nor even a fixed territory....

so... Who, and What, defines a country, if not its Ideas and Ideals?

If you allow usurpers or particular presidents or actions that defy the truer ideals of America to define the real america (instead of calling them violations of real american values) then you poison the well of so much that is good.

The ideals set forth in 1776 were consciously intended for all time -- thus they could not be complied with at that time and they were therefore subject to unfair charges of hypocrisy (as we so often hear on the left). But if you think about, setting forth ideals large enough to guide us through centuries is a good thing -- it allows us to set our direction and chart our course EVEN IF we've not reached those ideals and perhaps never will. THink: Honesty -- no one's perfectly honest but if we didn't have that as an ideal we'd be lost. The same goes for the core ideals of 1776, Freedom, Equality, Democracy. (only they understood "democracy" as not having constitutional or inalienable rights, and so spoke critically of democracy, just as we would today IF THAT'S HOW WE DEFINED democracy -- but we no longer define it that way)

[Jackpine Radical]

109. Hubris.

Empty Arrogance.
Collapse is imminent.
Greedy international armed robber.
Chickens coming home to roost.


Sorry, I'm just not in a very upbeat mood about America today.

[Ellipsis]

110. Exploited.

[bdamomma]

111. our soul is lost.

[countryjake]

112. Turtle Island

No tribe has the right to sell a country!

[2 Much Tribulation]

117. Gary Snyder? (poet?) as i recall he wrote on turtle island nt

[countryjake]

124. Nope. Tecumseh

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Wisdom/Tecumseh.html

[Junkdrawer]

113. Mordor n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

114. The Land of the Conformist and Home of the Craven.

[Land Shark]

123. Is this what it's supposed to be, or an abdication of vigilance in defense of liberty? nt

[ThatsMyBarack]

116. Profits And Oil

Nufsed.

[Initech]

118. Greed

Or as Lewis Black puts it - "There should be a new level of greed - piggy piggy piggy fuck piggy piggy."

[Ganja Ninja]

120. Trashed.

Like a hotel room after a night with a heavy metal band.

[WinkyDink]

121. Opportunity. (Read the OP's request.)

[Land Shark]

122. Thanks for the submission (a good one) and the reminder on the OP

Even a person with overwhelmingly negative feelings still has those feelings with regard to some POSITIVE or substantive aspect of what this country is SUPPOSED to be about, and rightfully is about.

By ignoring the OP's request (no biggie in itself) we communicate disconnected and seemingly "irrational" anger and rejection. Except as to those who "already know" what's going on, we communicate or teach nothing to the uninitiated. This is why myself and a couple others keep pressing for the negative folks to keep their opinions the same, but be sure to tie it to the positive form of what they are angry or upset about. Thus, failure to follow the OP's request carries its own penalty, not only here on DU but EVERYWHERE.

[L. Coyote]

125. Statehood. Used to be the clan wore the hood.

[Throd]

126. Wonderful

Life is good.

[2 Much Tribulation]

130. LUCKY Y OU

[HummanaHummana]

127. AMERICA -- In a Word! (nominate/suggest your own)

An Illusion

[Land Shark]

131. Unless We the People Make it Real, America's an Illusion -- this is true

Democracy is something we have to work at all the time