How in the world can we continue to fund the war when we're in a recession?

[Kittycat]

I mean it, seriously? Why aren't we packing up and coming home? The country is officially BROKE!

[lovuian]

1. I agree it makes no sense we will leave Iraq eventually

and Afghanistan

[wain]

32. We've done this before with Vietnam and the Great Society

Leaving Jimmy Carter with a budget mess. In many ways we're still paying for it....

[eleny]

2. We have a credit card the size of Texas

[Fleshdancer]

12. actually, I think it's the size of China

and a back up card the size of Saudi Arabia.

[eleny]

28. I stand corrected!

[fenriswolf]

3. cause we are a credit/debtor nation

debt is our modis operendi. Even if we're broke we can still borrow cash to throw away.

[thunder rising]

4. Easy ..print more money.

[Cleita]

13. Ouch! that will bring on inflation and render any savings you

have as practically worthless if inflation becomes rampant. It will reduce the value of the debt though.

[thunder rising]

16. I'll bet you got that from a book. And we don't cotton to books 'round here.

[Cleita]

18. Perhaps a history book.

Those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them as several old sages have pointed out.

[lapfog_1]

Funding the war PUT us into a recession.

along with some other things.

But running up the national debt by something like 5 Trillion dollars in the last 7 years had a lot to do with it.

Pray that it is ONLY a recession. (If you pray, that is).

[Hydra]

10. Don't bother prayin'

The "d" word is in play. Expect lots of problems when people figure that out.

[lapfog_1]

22. I'm hoping then... to avoid that.

because in this day and age, a "D" would be a lot more difficult.

I say that because a much larger PERCENTAGE of Americans do not live on farms where, no matter what tanks in the economy, they can plant enough food to eat and to share with neighbors. But we've moved off the farm since those days, and we, for the most part, do not know hunger.

People will do anything, and I mean anything, to feed their children. Including voting us into a fascist dictatorship.

Shock Doctrine indeed!

[Hydra]

24. Yup

we are less prepared than ever to face a great "d"

But here we are. As you say, if someone says you have to submit to martial law to eat...do you say no?

[OHdem10]

5. Continue as we have--borrow the money from China, Asia Japan

and Mexico.

[lapfog_1]

7. Until they say "no mas"

then we are so screwed.

[Hydra]

6. We can always borrow from China

They haven't told us "no" yet. Only hinted.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Doncha know? Government spending is EEEVILLL, but...

military spending doesn't count.

I've read of Republicans saying that we'll have to cut domestic spending because of the deficit. Nothing about cutting the military budget. Oh, no. Wars are free. :sarcasm:

[Kittycat]

15. I hear you loud and clear!

We'll throw our elderly on the street, stop feeding the poor and helpless children. But we'll continue to fund an endless pit of war in Iraq (and elsewhere) with contracters that are raping us with their no-bid contracts.

We shouldn't even farking be there in the first place. For the love of FSM, I want to SCREAM!

[Ishoutandscream2]

9. Amen!

Makes absolutely no sense.

[krispos42]

11. Oh, we'll just stop paying Social Security.

Problem solved!

Those old farts need to get off their asses and work! There's a war on, remember!?!?!?!?!?

:sarcasm:

[thunder rising]

19. They can just march right down to WalMart and apply. Like 700000 others

keep the line straight please.

[Lerkfish]

14. because killing Iraqis is more important to those in power

than people being able to eat in america or afford health care.

its a priority problem.

If all the money spent on Iraq were used instead for americans, we'd have free health care for everyone.

[AlCzervik]

17. because China is willing to finance it and why not, they're making a killing.

literally.

[thunder rising]

21. That assumes we were ever going to pay it off.

[Captain Angry]

20. Recessions have no bearing on warfare.

The term recession only relates to the growth or lack thereof of the economy.

We can write checks forever. I'm surprised that the President hasn't suggested that we really start cutting spending on things like Medicare/Social Security so that we can still fund the war. Nobody could do anything about it and their dreams would come true of reducing the entitlement programs.

If we packed up and brought everybody home, it wouldn't change how much is going to be spent replenishing what we lost in Iraq/Afghanistan.

And the country isn't even remotely broke. If there was a threat of the Feds bouncing their payroll, you'd be on to something. But the USA has more money than it knows what to do with. It just doesn't know where it all is, and is spending some of it on bad things.

Now, millions of citizens may be broke, may have little to no income, no health care, little to no college education, etc. But none of those factors would stop the Government from going to war or maintaining one.


There are a whole lot of things that need to be fixed, but we're a long way away from seeing that happen. Even if a Democrat takes office next year, they're going to have to wait for Congress to bring them bills to sign. We'll have to deal with the standard round of victory party crap, and then we get to see what promises were made on the campaign trail. I'm sure the first few bills to reach the desk of the new President will be indirect payments to the biggest political donors.

[thunder rising]

25. alrighty then. There's even cynics in the DU.

[Captain Angry]

26. Didn't want to come off as too harsh, but it looks like I got rolling there.

Here's hoping I'm wrong and that everything turns out great.

[WheelWalker]

31. But, warfare has a bearing on recession... How can we be at war and have a recession?

[Captain Angry]

34. Warfare is not affecting our economy.

We are not losing means of production to warfare.

We are not losing access to resources due to warfare.

We are not rationing, or seeing shortages of supplies.

Our occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan are not causing people to be unemployed.
It's not causing wages to stay stagnant.
It's not causing health care costs to rise.

If a recession is officially declared, it will be due to reduced spending by the consumer.

Fuel prices are high because of oil futures traders and lack of refining capacity. That's translating into higher transport costs, higher food production costs, etc.

We had tremendous spending when people though that they could refinance their mortgage to absorb credit card debt. Those days are over.


Bottom line. If we weren't in Iraq and Afghanistan, nothing would change. The housing market wouldn't have gone boom and bust. Outsourcing wouldn't have slowed down. None of the issues that have created an unstable economy are related to Iraq/Afghanistan.

[WheelWalker]

37. You missed my point altogether. I'm not arguing that war is causing

recession. To the contrary, one might expect war would increase employment and productivity. That it's not is counter-intuitive.

Whatever the case, with all due respect, to claim as you have that, "warfare is not affecting our economy"...well, I'm no economist, but that's just idiotic.

[fenriswolf]

42. no hes right

we havn't started paying for the war yet. Our recession is soley cause by loose of jobs and economic infrastructure. this recission is gonna hurt and I'm glad we don't have to pay that mountain of debt right away otherwise it would get really scary here. Times are hard and gonna get alot harder. Oh and we are broke. When spending is more then our income and our debt is getting harder and harder to manage then yeah we are going broke.

[Captain Angry]

44. I'm sure in some small way that Iraq/Afghanistan is influencing some economic decisions.

But, look to past wars.

Our factories have not been bombed.
Our railways have not been sabotaged to stop the movement of raw materials.
Our power infrastructure is running at full capacity.
Our factory production has not been redirected to war materials.
There has been no interruption of international shipping.

I can't think of any way that Iraq/Afghanistan has affected the economy directly.

So, I wouldn't say it's idiotic to think that warfare is not affecting our economy. Our economy has been shaken by other forces.

I don't read about war in the WSJ. I don't see it on Bloomberg.

I do see subprime issues. I see housing issues. I see job creation problems. I see commercial paper is now considered risky. Banks won't lend to each other because they don't trust the collateral. The amount of consumer debt is unbelievable.

Those are the reasons the market is shaky. Not Iraq.

[WheelWalker]

45. Alright, I can see we're not going to be making any progress here...

I've enjoyed pondering your refreshing point of view. Seriously. I think what we really have here, is a failure to communicate. It's happened before. My bad.

[Captain Angry]

46. I'm right there with you.

I hate it when I have a really great point but I can't get it across.

Maybe some sleep will help me understand.

Have a great night. :-)

[WheelWalker]

47. You too...while I DO NOT enjoy yet another blizzard on the beach.

[dipsydoodle]

23. Same way as has been done to date

Just keep printing the money under the illusion that the petrodollar cycle will continue forever - it wont.

[Golden Raisin]

27. Fiscal responsibility under the BushCo regime?

Silly rabbit! Unless it is to provide tax relief for the rich, prop up Halliburton and Oil Company stock prices, and machete-hack expenditures on the middle class and poor, the Bush Doctrine is to spend, spend, spend --- regardless of whether they actually have the money. It's like having a credit card the size of Jupiter. I personally think they are deliberately trying to bankrupt this country and they are well on their way to achieving that goal.

[MiniMe]

29. Haven't you been listening? We aren't in a recession yet, but...

if congress doesn't pass the stimulus package right fucking now, we will be. I really believe that because my gubmint told me so.

[Kittycat]

33. Well, I believe we are, but even if we aren't according to some...

We will be before we ever see a check from the gubmint.

Checks being cut in May - IF the IRS can handle the load, means June before we see anything. Imagine the state of this country in 5 more months?

[dysfunctional press]

30. it's only going to cost $60 billion, tops...and iraqi oil revenue will fund all of it.

:rofl:

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. Bush and his friends are disaster capitalists.

If the USA is in a disaster, they will grab more power and profit.

And we're footing the bill.

[Earth_First]

36. (Pssst...we couldn't afford the war to BEGIN with) n/t

[Critters2]

38. A rich uncle with deep pockets.

Named China.

[Wizard777]

39. LMAO! We passed Broke in Bush's first term. Now they are ready to cut up the credit cards. n/t

[tabasco]

40. Exxon's not in a recession.

Why the hell do you think we're in Iraq?

[Kittycat]

41. Nor is Halliburton and their ilk.

God I just want to cry... more.

[pinto]

43. Your children and grandchildren are. It's the (R) trickle down debt

approach to government - or lack there of - and military spending.

Agree, though, between the stated defense budget, the 'emergency' supplementals, etc. we are most certainly broke.

(ed for spell)

[conspirator]

48. The thing is recession is just for JOE BLOW. Rich people don't have recession

Recession means only that rich people cannot pay their slaves enough to keep them happy and watching american idol