Bush Offered his "condolences" on the Death of Suharto

[tekisui]

JAKARTA, Indonesia - President Bush offered his "condolences" on Sunday on the death of Suharto, a Cold War ally whose 32 years of brutal rule saw up to a million political opponents killed.

Cameron Hume, the U.S. ambassador in Jakarta, said Suharto was a close ally who led his country through a period of "remarkable" development.

"Though there may be some controversy over his legacy, President Suharto was a historic figure who left a lasting imprint on Indonesia and the region," Hume said.

Others were less forgiving.

"General Suharto has died in bed and not in jail, escaping justice for his numerous crimes in East Timor and throughout the Indonesian archipelago," said the rights group East Timor Action Network.

The bulk of killings occurred in 1965-1966 when alleged communists were rounded up and slain during his rise to power. Estimates for the death toll range from a government figure of 78,000 to 1 million cited by U.S. historians Barbara Harff and Ted Robert Gurr, who have published books on Indonesia's history.

link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080127/ap_on_re_as/suharto_world_view;_ylt=At8zfbUhb9_hx44YrHo0f1ZvaA8F

[Blue_In_AK]

1. Two of a kind.

[Roland99]

2. Yeah, and that lasting imprint actually lies about 6' underground.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Mass murderers stick together.

[tekisui]

4. Chimpy: "I wanna die in bed and not in prison, too."

"We'll miss you in the Murderer's Power Club!"

[Adsos Letter]

5. !!!

~snip~

"President Suharto was a historic figure who left a lasting imprint on Indonesia and the region,"

~snip~

Let's seeeee:

Hitler...
Stalin...
Pol Pot...
Pinochet...

Yup...that's a reason for condolences, alright... :puke:

[Democrats_win]

6. Shame he didn't die like Mussolini. No justice for the people when monsters die in bed.

[lurky]

7. Well, he was a Republican sock puppet

during the cold war. We backed his invasion of East Timor while Poppy was running the CIA. Another Bush family friend, I guess. :shrug:

[tekisui]

8. They're probably going to the funeral.

[lurky]

9. I bet Poppy goes.

And maybe Cheney too. He and Suharto seem like kindred spirits.

[scarletwoman]

13. He was a U.S. Foreign Policy Establishment puppet. The USFPE has ALWAYS been a bipartisan

institution.

It was Lyndon Johnson who publicly cut off economic aid to Indonesia in December, 1963; while at the same time, initiated a program of covert military aid (weapons and cash) to certain elements within the Indonesia military.

Arms sales to Suharto were continued and increased under the Carter administration in 1978, at the peak of the East Timor bloodbath.

Solely blaming "republicans" for the murderous foreign policies of USFPE since the end of WWII is indicative of a woefully uninformed naivite.

sw

[Mr Rabble]

18. Indeed.

You are absolutely correct here.

[scarletwoman]

19. Thank you. (nt)

[lurky]

20. Ouch.

[Djinn]

29. thanks scarletwoman

far too many DUers think neocons are always republicans and that under Democrat adminsitrations the exploitation of the third world continues unabated.

I'd actually extends the timeline much further than WW2, back to the Monroe Doctrine.

600,000 Filipinos were killed when the US wrested control of the archipelgo from Spain in the late 1800's.

[scarletwoman]

34. Excellent point, re: the Monroe Doctrine -- the roots of U.S. imperialism.

Post-WWII sticks in my mind because that marked the formation of the National Security State, with the rise of the CIA.

But you are absolutely correct, the Ruling Elites' project of exploitation of the Third World started long before.

Thank you for your post. Until we recognize just how much terror and injustice and bloodshed has been promulgated in our name by BOTH parties, we will never get to the root of the abuse that our government subjects ALL of us to.

sw

[Djinn]

26. Might want to reexamine that claim

Suharto cam to power with the full support of the DEMOCRATIC administration of LBJ.

His most blood stained years ALL occurred under Dem's watchful eye.

Why is it that you mention the invasion of East Timor which occurred with the blessing of a Republican President but completely ignore Sukarno's invasion of West Papua (unlike Timor STILL occupied) which occurred with the total support and blessing of JFK?

Why do so many on DU allow Democrats a pass for the same crimes they condemn Republicans for?

[lurky]

37. Way to pile on after the fact...

:eyes:

I'm not prone to listen to people who are more interested in smackdowns than discourse. You might want to consider that if you are truly concerned about getting your ideas across. The same goes for your friend.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

10. The Clintons loved him, too

in one of their many, many betrayals of basic decency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2774957

[WinkyDink]

32. That may as well be. The point is: Why say something nice NOW??

[AlCzervik]

11. i'd be checking his coffin to make sure he's really dead, i suggest the same when Kissinger dies.

[DutchLiberal]

12. The US backed yet another dictator to overthrow a democratic leftist government.

The good leader Sukarno, who freed his people from the colonial rule of the Dutch, was overthrown by Suharto, who has been responsible for over a million deaths in the years he ruled.

'This dictator has been made possible by the USA.'

[scarletwoman]

14. It's just pitiful that so few U.S. citizens understand what our Rulers have been up to in the rest

of world since WWII.

I sometimes wonder, does even 1 person out of 100,000 U.S. citizens have a clue about the actual truth of the Cold War? That what the Cold War was really about was to prevent and utterly destroy any independant nationalist economic development in the Third World?

The entire official "history" that has been fed to us for decades is an absolute masterwork of layers upon layers of duplicity and false framing.

The madness of the Rulers is only growing more dangerous -- the People badly need to throw off their ignorance. If too few people understand what we're really up against, there is simply no hope of effectively fighting it.

sw

[DutchLiberal]

23. Exactly! That's why I get so tired of Americans saying: "What has become of out country?"

Whenever Americans speak about 8 years of Bush, they act like the invading of countries based on lies and the rendition and torture of people all over the world is something completely new. And they always wish they could restore the US into this shining beacon of light, hope and democracy it was before Bush.

You're right: not even 1 out of 100,000 US citizens have a clue. But if it's any comfort: neither do most Dutch people. We were all fed the same bull shit. George Orwell would've been proud to see his Doublespeak has made it into a reality.

[scarletwoman]

24. The U.S. has been the greatest state sponsor of global terror for over 6 decades.

We are directly and indirectly responsible for more millions of civilian deaths than any tyrant in the history of the world could have ever dreamed of.

And it's all hidden away, out of mind, out of memory, washed out of our "official" history. I'm sorry to hear that the Dutch are just as propaganda-ridden, it does not "comfort" me at all. But it doesn't much surprise me.

The "West" in general has been a deadly and merciless predator all around the globe for centuries, all the while parading itself as the paragon of "civilization". That's a hell of a lot of denial and hypocrisy to break through.

sw

[DutchLiberal]

28. It's because the majority of the people can't or won't accept the reality about their own country's

policies or their past. People are easily tricked into nationalism. People want to be proud of their country and their ancestors, and for that to work, the truth has to be carefully hidden. And anybody who does mention the truth, is a spoiler, or a conspiracy theorist who needs to be shut out.

Also, most people like their world defined in simplistic terms. Good versus bad. The Russians and the Islamic extremists are the bad, so the Americans and the Europeans must be the good. That's what we have been told for centuries by our leaders. And why would our leaders lie to us...?

[scarletwoman]

35. Obviously, the first step toward freedom is recognizing that our "leaders" lie to us.

Constantly. About nearly everything.

sw

[Djinn]

27. What?

Suharto was a mass murdering kleptocratic dictator but "the good leader Sukarno" whitewashes just a little bit of history don't you think?

The people of West Papua have a very different view of Sukarno than you do

[DutchLiberal]

30. I'll be the first to admit I don't know the slightest thing about West Papua.

I only know he freed his people from the colonial rule of the Dutch.

[Djinn]

36. look into it

before talking up Sukarno as a hero, generally when a nation is "liberated" it's a case of "meet the new boss - bad as the old boss".

Indonesians were no longer ruled by distant Dutch but by Javanese who were every bit as much colonisers.

Sukarno opposed the creation of Malaysia and despite a vote showing people in Sarawak and Sabah wished to be part of Malaysia and not Indonesia, Sukarno sent in guerillas in an attempt to subvert the self determination of the people of Sarawak and Sabah.

Sukarno regularly jailed political oppponents and shut down newspapers and opposition groups.

Being anti-colonial does not make one progressive.

[scarletwoman]

15. k&r -- It hope that this might cause at least a few DUers to want to dig a little deeper into

the Suharto backstory.

Here's a place to start:
http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2008/01/free-blinders-with-every-purchase.html

Here's another:
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002038.html

If you want to go deep, go here:
http://www.namebase.org/scott.html

sw

[Initech]

16. One murderous dictator supporting another - gee, who woulda thunk it?

[sakabatou]

17. "My hero! Heh heh heh"

[travelingtypist]

21. Can't wait to here Malloy riff on this tomorrow.

Heh-heh-heh.

[eppur_se_muova]

22. "We were saddened to learn of the recent loss of your oppressive tyrant."

Another Hallmark® moment!

[backscatter712]

25. I say we contribute a tombstone for Suharto's grave...

...in the shape of a urinal!

There's a special place in Hell for monsters like that.

[WinkyDink]

31. Probably written by Kissinger.

[hack89]

33. No point in pissing off the world's largest muslim country. nt