*************2ND OFFICIAL THREAD SENATE FISA LAW****

[bdamomma]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2757193

Thread one

kick and some recs please

[TwilightGardener]

1. Is that Obama's mellifluous voice I hear as presiding officer?

[Muttocracy]

2. all I hear is classical music???? n/t

[bdamomma]

6. nice picture of Biden and Dodd

.

[Muttocracy]

10. appropriate for today, eh?

Got it from someone in the Biden Support (sic) Group who posted a link to a whole bunch o' photos.

[bdamomma]

3. no it's not Obama, I can't make out who it is on my screen.

[TwilightGardener]

5. I can't see it either--too small on the computer. Sorta sounded like him.

[Muttocracy]

13. my computer view is all rainbowy

on those big rectangular frames in the back. Anyone else? Or is my screen making a political statement?

[trashcanistanista]

18. That's Senator Webb!

He has a deep voice!

[gateley]

4. What does "absence of a quorum" mean? If it means what I think it does, how

can they do that?

[Muttocracy]

8. not enough people in the chamber for some procedure/vote to be valid??

We need a Senate scholar in here! I learned all this stuff in 7th grade civics and 12th grade political science but that was a while ago!!!

[TwilightGardener]

9. Means there are not enough Senators present to conduct business, so

they call roll to scare up some more. I think it's often used as a stalling tactic to figure out who's going to speak next, etc.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

7. If amendments prohibiting retroactive immunity fail, will Dodd then have to filibuster?

I'm trying to get a handle on what's going on.

Thanks in advance. :hi:

[BuyingThyme]

11. When you get a handle,

can I borrow it?

:hi:

[bdamomma]

12. you know they are presenting amendments but again

they are giving these telecom companies immunity so what the hell?

[trashcanistanista]

14. Yes, that's how I see it.

[dysfunctional press]

38. how is retroactive immunity NOT unconstitutional?

it's clearly a law written after the fact.

[bdamomma]

15. The House GOP members are in retreat, I wonder what those

guys are cooking up?? probably something not good they are not to be trusted.

[kelligesq]

16. TOLL FREE #

to Congress

Toll Free Number


[phone]

In case you want to thank them for destroying the Constitution, or ask them why they hate America, Americans and The Constitution.

What they are doing piece by piece IS nullifying the Constitution which gives
citizens rights and freedoms.

GONE: 1st, 2nd, 3rd and now 4th Amendment

Rights to free speech and assmebly, to carry arms, to privacy (taken a book from the library lately),habeus corpus, not to be searched and seized in your own home....


we pay for that number and now they want us to pay legal fees and awards for
ATT wrong doing.

Sorry about the first number, guess they shut it off but I just checked this number and it works.

[Muttocracy]

17. kick - they're back on n/t

[bdamomma]

19. can someone else takeover these threads??

I would appreciate it.

[gateley]

22. I will, Alyce -- people, let me know when it's time to move it, okay? Thanks.

EDIT -- I'm thinking around 50 posts??

[wtmusic]

24. You got it

100 posts is a good max.

[gateley]

28. Thanks! nt

[bdamomma]

30. a little more than 50 posts, when you see it going up to about 100

posts start a new thread, thanks gateley, I will catch up with this later. :hi:

[wtmusic]

You got it Alyce.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[wtmusic]

20. Bond whining about reporting requirements

He really is a moron. Especially contrasted with Feingold.

[Muttocracy]

23. Feingold rocks n/t

[kelligesq]

27. I wish Feingold was my senator.

like Wexler he's a firebrand

[Muttocracy]

31. if there's a fantasy govmt game, my team would have

Biden, Dodd, Feingold.... and most of the great senators could play multiple positions (pres, vp, atty general...) :)

[hisownpetard]

35. And don't forget Sheldon Whitehouse. He's an up and comer. Very smart, and pretty fearless.

[Muttocracy]

37. is he in RI? beat Chafee? I'm having a blank n/t

[hisownpetard]

41. Yes, he's in RI. (He's the one who made that mind-blowing chart, regarding the DoJ scandal, showing

how the line of communications used to be between the US Atty Gen'l and only four other people
at the White House.

He illustrated how many people, under Bush, had access to speak personally and have input with the Atty Genl (Gonzales),
and how it was up to almost 200 people (if I remember correctly). It was a stunning bit of information, the way he
presented it.

[gateley]

21. If the Intelligence Committee law is going to stand (which it apparently is) -

what incentive do the R's have to pass any of the amendments rescinding retroactive immunity?

If they're unwilling to support one of those amendments, it makes it clear the ONLY thing they're protecting IS the retroactive immunity. 5555

[gateley]

25. When I'm not watching I can tell who's a Dem or Repub by the passion in their

voices -- except for Rockefeller.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. America is dying...

[kelligesq]

32. same thought - we are now like

every other country in the world where you have to be afraid to voice an opinion
of dissent, afraid to speak, write, buy the "wrong" material in their opinion.

That was what the Constitution prevented.

The republicans have purposely done this .

Make people fearful of "consequences" - live in fear

then they can control you.

[Muttocracy]

29. slightly off-topic... pda/phones at their floor desk?

Wondering if Senators can get communications at their desks on the floor? Is that why they scurry in and out so much, to talk to other senators/staff/etc.? And negotiating between floor statements?

[gateley]

33. I'm often surprised -- and pissed -- when there's nothing but empty chairs

in the chamber. They don't LISTEN to others argue -- it seems like they do it just to get it in the record. People have already made up their minds, apparently.

[Muttocracy]

34. I find that disturbing too

so much for the world's greatest debate chamber or whatever it used to be called.

I kinda doubt it's because they're running out to take calls from constituents... :eyes:

[Muttocracy]

36. and they're back.... n/t

[L. Coyote]

39. Wyden up. Kick this folks!

Let us know you are out there!

[gateley]

42. Tell me about Wyden. Thanks. nt

[Muttocracy]

43. Ditto n/t

[Muttocracy]

46. who's on some committees

Looked this up to educate myself.

Senate Select Comm. on Intelligence

Democrats
John D. Rockefeller IV, West Virginia, Chairman
Dianne Feinstein, California
Ron Wyden, Oregon
Evan Bayh, Indiana
Barbara A. Mikulski, Maryland
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin
Bill Nelson, Florida
Sheldon Whitehouse, Rhode Island

Republicans
Christopher S. Bond, Missouri, Vice Chairman
John Warner, Virginia
Chuck Hagel, Nebraska
Saxby Chambliss, Georgia
Orrin Hatch, Utah
Olympia J. Snowe, Maine
Richard Burr, North Carolina

Harry Reid, Nevada, Ex Officio
Mitch McConnell, Kentucky, Ex Officio
Carl Levin, Michigan, Ex Officio
John McCain, Arizona, Ex Officio
-----------------------------------------

Judiciary

Patrick J. Leahy
CHAIRMAN, D-VERMONT

Edward M. Kennedy
D-MASSACHUSETTS
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
D-DELAWARE
Herb Kohl
D-WISCONSIN
Dianne Feinstein
D-CALIFORNIA
Russell D. Feingold
D-WISCONSIN
Charles E. Schumer
D-NEW YORK
Richard J. Durbin
D-ILLINOIS
Benjamin L. Cardin
D-MARYLAND
Sheldon Whitehouse
D-RHODE ISLAND

Arlen Specter
RANKING MEMBER, R-PENNSYLVANIA
Orrin G. Hatch
R-UTAH
Charles E. Grassley
R-IOWA
Jon Kyl
R-ARIZONA
Jeff Sessions
R-ALABAMA
Lindsey Graham
R-SOUTH CAROLINA
John Cornyn
R-TEXAS
Sam Brownback
R-KANSAS
Tom Coburn
R-OKLAHOMA

[gateley]

40. OT - Dennis is dropping out -- here's the link to the discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4185659&mesg_id=4185659

:(

[PatSeg]

44. That is a surprise

[L. Coyote]

45. Bond up. Sometmes I KNOW we pay these guys too much.

[PatSeg]

47. Bond is really creepy

Reminds me of the emperor in Star Wars.

[Muttocracy]

49. don't you worry your pretty little head, just behave and you'll be fine n/t

[PatSeg]

90. Whew, I feel better now

No worries, I'm a good girl.

[L. Coyote]

57. CREEP was a Nixonian group too, you realize! So, yes, very, very creepy.

Loves the Bush Junta. A spook's best friend creepy too!
The Rs dropped the name "Committee to Re-Elect..." when they started fixing the election. :rofl:

[wtmusic]

48. Saying gathering techniques are classified -- heard it before

Wyden kicking him to the curb, insisting that that doesn't give Feds carte blanche to listen to everyone in a "facility".

[kelligesq]

50. Feingold points the finger at Harry Reid

"In an interview with the Huffington Post on Thursday morning, Sen. Russ Feingold, who opposes granting immunity to those companies, expressed disappointment that his party's leader, Sen. Harry Reid, was not doing more to help strike the provision from a newly considered version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act."

[Muttocracy]

51. Senator Whitehouse up n/t

[kelligesq]

53. Feingold should have run for Pres but

then you would have a woman, a black, and a Jew.

and the party completely split. as if it isnt now

[L. Coyote]

52. Sen. Whitehouse. Rights Constitution guarantees travel with you overseas!

Could have fooled me!

[annabanana]

54. Whitehouse is up. . him I like. Right now they are addressing

the question of protecting the civil rights of Americans overseas.. They are talking about moving language around. He's bringing up another amendment..

[annabanana]

55. Kit Bond stopped him from presenting his amendment... I don't

know what it was supposed to be.

[wtmusic]

61. Appears to be closing a loophole

which might have prevented "miminization" procedures from being enforced.

[L. Coyote]

66. The banner just announced the Kucinich announcement to withdraw.

Too bad, BUT, non-candidate Rep. Kucinich will be impeaching Bush!
The M$M won't be able to say it is a media or political campaign ploy!

[annabanana]

56. Who is Chairing this session?

[Muttocracy]

58. Whitehouse talking about rights of people incidentally tapped due to main targets n/t

[Muttocracy]

59. with a visual aid too n/t

[Muttocracy]

60. says he'll bring up his amendment again in the future n/t

[iris5426]

64. thanks for the updates, i'm just lurking reading to stay up on whats going on since i can't watch

[Muttocracy]

62. so is Bond sort of leading discussion because this is

his and Rockefeller's bill or amendment or whatever?

[gateley]

63. Why does this Bond jerk get to talk so much? nt

[wtmusic]

65. This is hilarious -- Bond arguing Justice Dept will oversee itself

Don't you trust us?

[Muttocracy]

68. 'cause it's worked so well in the past.... is Bond up for re-election this year? n/t

[Atman]

70. Yeah...hilarious, 'cept not very funny.

He really is saying, "Gosh...it was soooo complicated. So just trust ue, we'll make sure we don't abuse the law."

Dear god...I fucking HATE Republicans. There is no conscience at all. "Trust me." "The check is in the mail." "I won't come on your face."

LIARS, every one.

.

[TwilightGardener]

67. Kit Bond is attempting to bore us to death. He's succeeding.

[L. Coyote]

69. Whitehouse is back. A relief! I don't like Corrupt Bastard Club members.

It is difficult to listen to Bond! Why isn't he fishing in Alaska in retirement along with Stevens?

[Muttocracy]

71. Whitehouse correcting Bond on procedures on his amendment - and a nice quote

not quite exact quote "unique in the annals of American law that an American court provided with power to make decision but not authority to determine whether complied with"

[Muttocracy]

72. Cardin (D-MD) on end date to FISA laws

mentioning changes in technology so need for frequent review of it

[Muttocracy]

73. asking for 4 yr sunset instead of 6 so next admin can and must be involved n/t

[wtmusic]

80. OMFG we have to go through this whole process every 4 years?

Let's just get it right now. FISA had no sunset...if they won't to ignore the law, they can find a way to do it.

[Muttocracy]

84. I think his argument was technology changes

like maybe original FISA didn't have stuff about cell phones, email, who knows what's coming? :shrug:

Kennedy saying 2 yrs seems a bit much though.

And I see your argument if it puts things at RISK every 4 yrs.

[Muttocracy]

74. did I catch it that Cardin's amendment not being considered today, he just gets time now? n/t

[L. Coyote]

75. Sen. Cardin trying to wake up the guys snoozing! He knows someone is watching!

[kelligesq]

83. Inhofe another sob - trying to get off topic to Yucca Mtn-Feinstein next

last time around she voted immunity

this time she voted no immunity knowing that there were not enough dems
to pass it

she's another one who should have a real dem run up against her for re election

[Muttocracy]

76. can someone give me quick explanation of the rush to finish this?

Is something about FISA about to change/expire/etc.?

Carding talking about fears they don't have things technically right due to rush.

[gateley]

79. There's some sort of Feb 1 deadline. Don't know what happens if that

date arrives some action on this, though.

[L. Coyote]

86. Provisions pased in Aug. sunset, ending the reforms passed then and reverting to prior law.

[Muttocracy]

88. yikes! thanks n/t

[Muttocracy]

87. thanks n/t

[hisownpetard]

98. They always wait till the last minute, and then claim they're too rushed to get it done.

I've got *agita*.

[gateley]

77. Wow - how many amendments ARE there??? nt

[Muttocracy]

78. 10 linked here but I think many changes +/- today

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:s.02248:

[gateley]

82. Yeah - I just heard that == about there being changes TODAY. nt

[Muttocracy]

81. Inhofe (R-OK) on energy issues - did we change topics all the sudden? n/t

[PatSeg]

85. Yucca Mountain?

How do people like Inhofe stay in office?

[Muttocracy]

97. he's got "20 kids and grandkids" ! n/t

[kelligesq]

89. I suspect GOP filllibuster so that amendments to Fisa cant be added

:puke:

[gateley]

94. Explain to me exactly how that would work. Thank you! nt

[Muttocracy]

96. so Inhofe is helping run out the clock?

and they're trying to finish FISA by Friday or early next week or something so this takes out time for amendments?

[kelligesq]

106. Yep , like a basketball game...that's the trouble, they act like

the country is a football or basketball and to hell with us.

[rhett o rick]

91. Where do we stand now? Is Dodd filibustering? nm

[Muttocracy]

93. Inhofe changing subject, Feinstein speaks next

I think she'll be back on topic (FISA) but not sure.

[gateley]

95. She'd better be. She said something about "morning business" - don't know

what that means.

[gateley]

102. Do you know WHICH amendment Kennedy is referring to? My head is swimming. nt

[gateley]

92. Here's today's vote on tabling the Judiciary Committee's bill:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00002

It was pretty much along party lines. We can't keep blaming the Senate if we don't have enough Dem bodies there to stop the Reps.

There were some Dem's who crossed over to the "dark side" on this vote -- about 10.

4 people not voting, the Prez candidates and Lindsay Graham. They wouldn't have made a difference. We need to send more people to Washington.

[Muttocracy]

99. Harry Reid up now - recognize Kennedy for 5 min to offer amendment, then Feinstein, then Reid n/t

[kelligesq]

111. Feingold accusing Harry of not really trying to pass dem bill

why am I not surpirsed Harry acting like rethuglican?
cause he is rethugodemocrat

[Muttocracy]

100. TK on n/t

[Muttocracy]

103. Ted K's amendment

have inspector general review the program, classified and public versions
"no other way to put this episode behind us"

"court cases have been stymied..."

if retroactive immunity some cases eliminated

and they're no substitute for real review of the program

[Muttocracy]

105. Ted Kennedy kicking exec. branch butt n/t

[G_Leo_Criley]

108. yep...

:-)

"understanding what's happened to the rights of Americans is not a partisan effort..."

glc

[Muttocracy]

109. "if not the insp. generals, who?" n/t

[Muttocracy]

113. this sounds really important for this admin. great quote

paraphrase:

only one reason to vote against this - to cover up admin's actions

[Muttocracy]

107. saying exec. branch reaction to insp. gen. review just scare tactic n/t

[Muttocracy]

114. saying this important even if can't stop retroactive immunity because at least get oversight n/t

[gateley]

104. Do you know WHICH amendment Kennedy is referring to? nt

[kelligesq]

101. TOLL FREE # TO CONGRESS

TOLL FREE #
to Congress

[phone]


I called Bond's office and asked:
I;d like to know why he's destroying the Constitution of the United States
and I asked very quitely and politely.

She hung up on me. BWAAAAAA

1-866-220-0044
In case you want to ask them why they are destroying the Constitution, or ask them why they hate America, Americans and The Constitution.


What they are doing piece by piece IS nullifying the Constitution which gives
citizens rights and freedoms.

GONE: 1st, 2nd, 3rd and now 4th Amendment

Rights to free speech and assmebly, to carry arms, to privacy (taken a book from the library lately),habeus corpus, not to be searched and seized in your own home....


we pay for that number and now they want us to pay legal fees and awards for
ATT wrong doing.

[gateley]

110. All you need to say is "please let Mr. Bond know that he supports the law

allowing warrantless wiretapping, he's lost my vote".

That's all I ever say. Whether they're my reps or not (how do they know?) and whether they're Repubs or not.

They don't care what we think, they care about getting our votes. Nothing more.

[kelligesq]

115. warrantless tap is a done deal. This is about no immunity for telcoms illegality

and our not paying the legal fees and losses of ATT in court against the 30 people suing them for invasion of privacy without warrant.

[rhett o rick]

118. With respect incumbents don't worry about getting votes. That's the whole problem.

The Democratic party guarantees incumbents a free run in the primaries. If we don't fix this, we will never be able to influence our "representatives".

[gateley]

112. Kennedy is brining it home! GO TEDDY! nt

[kelligesq]

117. Yes the last great Lion of Liberals - we really ought to thank him b4 he's gone..I

think almost 50 years of service sticking up for THE PEOPLE

[gateley]

116. NEW THREAD - HERE'S LINK!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=389

[MelissaB]

119. Correct link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2758984