Local Political Crisis: Need your HELP DU (especially those with Peanut Allergies)

[berni_mccoy]

Ok, here is the scenario: one girl in an upper elementary school had a severe allergic reaction from exposure to peanuts. The school already had peanut free classrooms, but now the school board has banned any food item from the school that has peanut products or where the label says it was produced in an environment exposed to peanuts. The board has also banned it from the lower elementary school since the girl has a brother there (he's not allergic though).

When the school board did this, many neighborhood moms became outraged for the inconvenience it is causing them and their children. Inconvenience? What about the child who has to live with this chronic condition? I find it saddening that these moms want to put things back and make the public school anattendable for this girl, all so their kids can eat an unhealthy dose of Skippy and Hi-Fructose Corn Syrup on Wonder Bread.

Well, I just found out this morning that these moms are going to surprise the schoolboard with a protest at the meeting tonight.

Their 'points' are as follows:
- They can't make their homes peanut free, so the food that goes into school that they make would not meet the criteria of the 'this food produced in an environment exposed to peanuts'
- What does the girl do outside of school? It's certainly not a peanut-free world
- Where does it stop? People have milk allergies and other food allergies. Are we going to ban milk next?

I think that sums up their issues.

So for counter point, with real facts, my points are as follows (I plan to be there to defend the school boards position):
- You can never eliminate risk of exposure, but you can do everything you can to minimize it. The school is going to take a position and enforcement of policy that minimizes risk.
- The girl and her family do everything they can both in school and out of school to minimize risk of exposure. It's our responsibility to do what we can to help. The public school is for all. Your child doesn't need a wheel chair, but we have wheel chair ramps. It costs everyone more to build these ramps. Are you going to complain about their cost too? If you feel frustrated by the inconvenience this is putting on you, how about the inconvenience this girl has to live with for the rest of her life.
- From the CDC: 80% of deaths caused by food allergies are from peanut allergies (there are about 160 deaths a year). Of hospital cases for treatment of food allergies, 90% are related to peanuts. Peanuts are unique in the way the reaction can be triggered by touch. The oil is effective at distributing the proteins that cause a reaction (think poison ivy). Other food products that cause allergic reactions don't have this property. It's unlikely we will have to ban Milk or other food products, but if we do, know that the school board will effect similar policy.

That's all I can come up with. I'd appreciate any help from fellow DUers, especially those who have to live with this problem. I'm actually quite upset about this, even though my children do not have allergies.

[Robb]

1. I have a severe peanut allergy

...and I agree with the moms.

Public school is by its nature a creature of compromise; the goal is to educate as many kids as possible with the scant resources available. Creating a peanut-free environment is a substitute, as I see it, for the education I received at home and from doctors about how to avoid peanuts. I became quite good at it -- as evidenced by my living through the days of cheap peanut oil and the explosion of Thai cuisine, and being here to post this. :)

The disruption of the school environment -- which goes way beyond the classroom -- compared to steps the child and parents can take, is unfair. It's probably not what you want to hear, but as I see it wheelchair ramps are a poor comparison; there's nothing a parent or child can do to prepare the child to ameliorate the condition in that case.

Now, I would soften my position for a smaller district, performing well, with a strong sense of unity between parents, the board, and the staff on the issue. If all agree banning peanuts is a good way to go, that's another matter. But most districts aren't that way.

[berni_mccoy]

2. You've learned, but this girl is a 4th grader. She is still learning.

And she is going to make mistakes in her protocol. Is it worth the risk? I don't think so. The elementary school should be training ground for her, as the middle school and high-schools are co-ops with other towns and are much larger. I don't expect the same policies to be made there.

Thanks for the criticism on the wheelchair point. It's obviously not a strong comparison, so I won't make it.

We are a small district, and I'm saddened by the responses of some of the parents. People don't even want to try.

[TCJ70]

11. "Elementary school should be training ground"...

...and that is accomplished by removing all risk? I think this is going overboard. You don't train someone in a place that they'll never have to face what they're being trained for.

Should teachers at the school be aware of this child's circumstance? Yes.
Should there be tools at hand to take care of any mishaps? Yes.
Should peanuts be banned from school? No.

[LeftishBrit]

36. Then are you prepared to pay with your taxes...

for a support worker to be with each allergic child in any situation where food is available, to prevent the child from touching or eating peanuts? Or for the provision of school lunches and separate lunch areas? Those might also be solutions.

This is not about removing *all* risk, but removing one exceptionally severe risk, which could kill the child. Children also need to learn to cross roads, but if you just allow all small children to cross roads unsupervised with no supervision or barriers, then not all of them will live to cross roads in adulthood. For a child with severe peanut allergy, this is a comparable situation.

Meanwhile the child needs to learn to read well, and to know what foods may contain peanuts. By the time she's at secondary school, she may be able to read and check ingredients herself sufficiently well to control the issue.

And it's not only the immaturity of the allergic child that could make the situation dangerous. Other elementary school children might be too immature to understand the situation, and might taunt the allergic child with peanuts - with possibly disastrous results. At a later age, people will not do so.

[knitter4democracy]

3. For the life of me, I cannot understand what their problem is.

My kids and I are allergic to milk. They can breathe the air around milk, they can be in a room with milk, and they can even ingest a tiny bit in a baked good. Classrooms and cafeterias don't have to be milk-free for my kids to be safe.

Peanuts are a whole 'nother thing altogether. People who are really allergic can have a reaction just by breathing it in, just by touching someone who's touched something with peanuts in it, or just by being in the same room with a bowl of nuts. Their reaction isn't like my kids' reaction to dairy (asthma, runny nose, GI upset)--it's that their airways close off and they can die.

Do these moms think their right to feed their kids PB&J sandwiches at lunch supercede that girl's right to breathe? This is ridiculous! The school has the responsibility to keep that girl and other students like her safe. That means she has to keep breathing. I think the school's doing the right thing here.

Here's what I always tell parents who are being stupid about it: what if it were your kid? What if your child couldn't breathe at school? Wouldn't you want the school to do everything possible to keep her safe? Epi pens are only to keep the reaction from killing the child before she gets to the hospital--if the paramedics take too long or if the reaction gets too bad before the pen's administered, she can die. Your right to eat peanut butter is not more important than her right to not die at school.

As for at home, it's pretty easy. Wipe down your counters like you already do before making your kid's lunch. Make sure there's nothing with nuts in it (that goes for granola bars and Chex Mix, too, not just peanut butter), and wash your hands beforehand if you've made peanut butter toast that morning. Wow. That's so hard to do when a child could die otherwise. :eyes:

My daughter went to a nut-free preschool. They really got strict about it after a girl almost died on the way to the hospital after she played with a boy who'd eaten the snack that had nuts in it. I had to supply snack for the class once a month, and it was no big deal. Hell, I even made snacks for the kids allergic to chocolate and wheat, too, while I was at it. It wasn't hard.

I'll never forget the day my daughter, then three, came home crying from preschool because someone had done ice cream cones for their child's birthday snack. Anna couldn't eat it, obviously, so the teacher scooped out all the ice cream. All she got was the cone, and try explaining that to a three year old. *sigh* I made sure that, from then on, there were her kind of ice cream treats in the school freezer, in addition to sending her with her own snack everyday just in case the parent-provided snack wasn't safe for her to eat.

[I_Will]

4. "there are about 160 deaths a year"

I think that sums up the ridiculousness of the request pretty well.

While, yes, 1 is one too many, how many cases of child abuse are there each year? Falling out of trees? Should we keep all the kids in orphanages and outlaw parents? Cut down all the trees? Dictate what food I can and cannot purchase with my own money in my own home?

You can't eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. It seems like the family tries to mitigate as best they can in the real world.

Good for them.

However, that would be the same world in which the school and everybody else in the district also lives.

And, trying to force the lower elementary ban to prevent her non-allergic brother from coming home with something is just completely insane.

Just my opinion.

[berni_mccoy]

6. That's a ridiculous argument. Where else does the child spend more than 8 hours a day

But in school and at home.

And yes, as I pointed out, this is about risk mitigation. If the girl has an anaphylactic reaction and no one did anything to prevent it, knew there were increased risks, then that is legally negligence.

This isn't just about the mortality rate... it's about having to live with a severe condition and that the school is there for all, not just the healthy.

[I_Will]

10. It was meant to be a ridiculous argument...

I can empathize with parents who want to do right by their kids. I am one.

But how far do you go?

Some kids have diabetes, but food with sugars haven't been banned in schools (or their siblings' schools, just in case). Some kids have asthma, but physical activity and stress haven't been banned in schools (or in their siblings' schools, just in case). Measures such as these would be considered ridiculous.

So, how do those kids adapt to these potentially life-threatening diseases and precipitants? In whatever way they need to by "owning" their own disease and taking their own precautions.

[Lars39]

27. I have an 8 yo nephew who is diabetic.

His diabetes was fluctuating very dangerously. The doctor put him on homebound. His health comes first.

[LeftishBrit]

37. The difference for diabetes is...

that a child won't go into diabetic coma just by *touching* a food with sugar, or another child who is eating such a food. Ordinary supervision should be sufficient to prevent the diabetic child from actually eating the forbidden food. With peanut allergy, at least in some people, contact will be sufficient to cause a severe reaction.

There *are* other possible solutions besides 'peanut free zones': e.g. provision of individual support staff in situations where peanuts may be around; separate lunchrooms for people eating different things; provision of (peanut-free) school lunches in a separate area from those bringing packed lunches. In fact, I think that school lunches should be provided anyway. But all these solutions would cost money, and therefore result in an increase in taxes (or school fees in the case of a private school). I suspect that some of the parents who are so up in arms about having to provide peanut free lunches would be similarly up in arms about helping to pay in taxes for accommodation of other children's special needs.

[berni_mccoy]

43. Again, you don't seem to understand what is required. I have two children with Type-1 Diabetes

Their life is not threatened by eating or being in proximity to sugar. Their life is in danger when the eat and their carbs aren't properly measured and they don't receive insulin. We have worked out a health care plan with the school to ensure that the risks are minimal. The school supports us with understanding teachers and staff who have more to do because of our children. They are still there and bad things can and do happen. The point is that the school adapts their workflow and their policies to care for our boys and to create a safe environment for them. The child who is allergic to peanuts has every right to attend a safe environment and parents should abide by rules that make the school safe for ALL, not a majority. Every child has a right to education in a safe environment provided by the state.

[madinmaryland]

5. I want to point out one thing.

Our schools here do not serve any product with peanuts, but it does not restrict what the children can bring in for lunch. They have also restricted the types of party type foods that are allowed in the classroom for various celebrations.

OTOH, there are many kids that will only eat PB&J's, and have a fifth grade daughter I understand the pickiness of kids. I think you have alleviated the issue about as much as it can be, at least realistically.

[trotsky]

7. No advice here, unfortunately.

I just hope to Koresh they figure out how to cure or at least minimize peanut allergies to the point of being a nuisance rather than a life threat. I fully understand both positions here and it's ugly all around. Peanuts and peanut butter are wonderful convenience foods and are very nutritious if you avoid the overly processed stuff.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. What about families that can't afford other food for lunch?

I was raised by a single mom who couldn't afford the school lunch (this was in the day before free lunches). It would have been a real hardship for her if I couldn't have had peanut butter sandwiches.

I do sympathize with the girl's plight, but wonder how realistic it is to expect the whole school, including lunches kids bring from home, to be nut free? Does the girl never go out of the house to a church, a mall, a grocery store? Do the parents expect her future schools, and, more importantly, future employers, to follow this policy?

Don't get me wrong--I know folks with severe allergies. No, they can't go everywhere. But they realize that the world doesn't revolve around them and their affliction, and so they do two things: one is learn to cope, the other is to get medical help to learn how to cope and how to alleviate the condition.

[qb]

9. My 2nd-grader has a severe peanut allergy.

We (his mom and I) had to file a 504 (disability) plan before the school would even remove peanut products from the menu. There is a separate peanut-free table that is washed meticulously and used only by allergic children and friends who buy a school lunch. An epipen with his emergency action plan is in a drawer nearby.

The school didn't ban anything in lunches brought from home. I don't know how they would enforce it... inspect every lunch? Children in my son's class have to wash their hands after lunch, and snacks in the classroom have to be peanut-free. I am comfortable with this arrangement. My son knows to be careful and stay away from other kids' food.

I can see asking other parents to do all they can to minimize the risk, but I don't think banning items in home-made lunches is workable.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Sounds to me like you are dealing with this rationally

And your child is learning what he needs to do to cope. And you are right about enforcement. Also there is the social factor--what if a child loves peanut butter and is told that he can't bring it in his own lunch because of this girl or her brother? I could see resentment building up against them.

[AngryAmish]

13. If the kid is that sick then school is not the place for her

[qb]

14. If the school receives federal $ she is protected under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973

[AngryAmish]

16. The act say what it says

What if she plays with a kid who ate a pbj at home before school. She gets peanuts on her. She dies.

A careful parent would not allow the kid in school.

[Tesha]

18. She must receive the most appropriate placement; that may not be in the school.

Districts frequently "tuition-out" the special-needs
kids to a more-appropriate placement than they can
provide; this may be a case where that will be the
solution.

Tesha

[berni_mccoy]

15. Wow. Most Stunning Response.

[LeftishBrit]

38. She isn't that sick. She is in danger of becoming sick if a particular risk factor isn't avoided

If it is, then she's just as healthy as anyone else.

For any young child, there is a danger of becoming seriously injured or dying if they run into a road unsupervised - and there are almost always roads near a school. We don't say that 'if they're that sick they shouldn't go to school'. We make sure that they are prevented from running into the road unsupervised while at school or on their way to school. This situation is exactly similar, except that the risk factor is specific to one child or a few children, rather than all.

There are different possible ways of dealing with the problem, and provision of school lunches and separate lunch areas, or individual support staff at mealtimes, could be alternatives to a peanut ban. But surely one needs to accommodate such problems in *some* way - would you also say that ramps shouldn't be provided if a child is in a wheelchair?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. For some perspective, here's an article from the January issue of Harper's

http://harpers.org/media/slideshow/annot/2008-01/index.html

Read it and be surprised.

[Tesha]

20. One interesting snippet from that article...

"In the case of the peanut butter kiss, a coroner later
ruled, to no fanfare, that the girl had smoked pot soon
before the embrace and actually died from an asthma attack."

Tesha

[Duer 157099]

19. I think it is unreasonable to expect every family

to modify their home life in a significant way (and it *is* significant for those who do not have peanut allergies and thus never focus on the issue -- jesus, I have enough shit to focus on in my *own* life -- if I had to suddenly inspect every ingredient in my house for peanuts and made sure my son never brought them to school, that would be the last straw for me and I'd be homeschooling him after that).

If the school gets Federal funds that they need to protect, then they need to use those funds to do what they can *AT SCHOOL* to address the issue. As a poster upthread described, a separate, clean eating place for the kids with the allergy, and the other preventative measures as described -- kids washing their hands etc -- imho is sufficient and reasonable.

What if the child had an immune system deficiencies that required they not be exposed to germs of any kind? Should the school tell all of the families that they need to disinfect their homes on a daily basis and sterilize all of their kids' belongings before sending them to school? Yes, it's an absurd argument, but it's the slippery slope.

Unfortunately, I agree that if there's a risk of death by sending my child to a public school, then goddamn, my child would not be going there, period.

[aikoaiko]

21. In the case of deaths, isn't ingestion mostly required?

If so, the schools policy is over the top.

[Tesha]

22. Ingestion: yes. (NT)

[berni_mccoy]

23. No. And in this case, the child has severe contact issues.

[aikoaiko]

24. Can you show me where you get the info that non-ingestion can cause death?

[alittlelark]

28. I have had a reaction due to skin contact

all it takes is a scratch. The reaction is treatable w/ benadryl.

When it comes to skin, the almond oil and Shea butter they put in lotions etc. cause nasty hives.

If a child had an injury that came in contact w/ nuts the reaction would come on faster. The odds of that are rather low.

[aikoaiko]

29. A reaction - sure, but the issue is whether death can result from mere contact (not ingestion

As I understand it, most contact reactions are bearable or can be controlled with benadryl or epipens.

[berni_mccoy]

33. This shows a complete lack of understanding. When epipen is used, the child still has to go to the

hospital. It's a life saver, not a control mechanism.

[berni_mccoy]

32. Canadian government has done extensive research on this topic: Here is link

http://www.allerg.qc.ca/peanutallergy.htm#impactonqol

I've pointed you to the point in the article that shows that 2/3rds of the anaphylactic incidences are due to contact, not ingestion.

-Peanut allergy is characterized by more severe symptoms than other food allergies and by high rates of symptoms on minimal contact. In a questionnaire study of 622 self-reported allergic subjects, a total of 406 patients (66%) reported symptoms on contact with peanut. Only 121 (19%) had been knowingly exposed to peanut before the first documented reaction implying a high frequency of occult sensitization.2(see important facts further in this article re early sensitization)

[aikoaiko]

34. I'm not finding the part where they say death occur from mere contact and not ingestion

But I read it more carefully later.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. The Harper's article seems to say that mere skin contact is not life-threatening

Have you read the article?

[aikoaiko]

30. Thats how I understand it too, but I was asking because I'm not an expert.

[alittlelark]

26. I have an anaphalactic allergy to peanuts and tree nuts.

I have had easily 60+ serious events. I was once dead for 15 seconds (it ends up similar to a heart attack).

When I was in school (70's) There were no separate tables... The cafeteria workers gave me a special lunch on days w/ nuts involved in the menu. I had 4 memorable ER reactions while in school. One was a classmates birthday cake, once w/ choc chip cookies the teacher baked herself -AFTER she had made peanut butter cookies on the same pan, once in HS after kissing my boyfriend who had eaten carrot cake earlier (currently husband), and one time ???? no idea - it happened during recess.

Every school my (allergy free) kids have gone to has had a separate table or 2 for nut allergy kids, or has completely banned them from the campus.

In all honesty, if those that are offended by not being able to pack PBJ's for their kids could actually WATCH a child go through an anaphalactic shock reaction... I think they would change their minds...all the IV's and panicked doctors.

One good thing is NEVER having to wait or even fill out paperwork in the ER...You get rushed straight back.


PS- the part about excluding "make in a facility that also processes nuts" is rather extreme... many companies put that on the label to avoid lawsuits - generally there is nothing wrong. I won't eat them because I have had reactions from them before (cereal bars, pumpkin seeds...)

[Marrah_G]

31. The school system is going a bit over board.

I can see them banning it from her school- but her brothers? give me a break. At some point this girl is going to need to live in the real world. Will her mother be confining her to a plastic sterile bubble?

[LeftishBrit]

35. I don't have a peanut allergy, but I know people who do

One problem is that being 'allergic' usually implies sneezing, a rash, being sick - unpleasant symptoms but not fatal ones. So when people hear of 'peanut allergy', they don't see it as something life-threatening. Perhaps they need to be told that a peanut allergy is more like the sort of reaction that causes some people to die from bee stings than 'allergies' like hay fever or milk intolerance.

An adult friend of mine - who generally avoids peanuts successfully by reading labels and lists of ingredients - once touched (didn't eat) a food that she didn't realize had peanuts in it; and had to be rushed to hospital in an ambulance, increasingly unable to breathe. A few minutes' delay in getting her to hospital could have been fatal; fortunately other people present knew about her allergy.



- What does the girl do outside of school? It's certainly not a peanut-free world

She probably does not eat unsupervised in places which cannot be relied on to be peanut free. Her family will make sure that there are no peanuts at home; and if they go out will read labels, check if there's any doubt, etc. When she is older, she will do these things herself as my adult friends do, but young children can't be expected to take this level of responsibility.

- Where does it stop? People have milk allergies and other food allergies. Are we going to ban milk next?

Milk allergies are very rarely fatal. Moreover, few people will get an allergic reaction just from touching milk if they don't drink it themselves. Peanut allergies are exceptional in their severity.

In my experience, British schools for young children are very ready to make school a 'peanut free zone' if there's a child with a severe allergy, and I've never heard of complaints. I do realize that peanut butter is a much commoner part of children's diet in the USA than here.

Do the schools provide school lunches? - perhaps this might solve some of the problem.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. Unlikely that the reaction was from touching peanuts

since the skin is a pretty good barrier to foreign substances. She may have had a small open wound or may have absentmindedly rubbed her nose with her hand or something like that.

I know someone who gets anaphylactic shock from eggs, so I know what small amounts can trigger potentially fatal reactions. However, he's never made a fuss about it or demanded an egg-free environment except to warn people who bring food to his house that they shouldn't bring anything that contains eggs or is basted with egg white.

[swoop]

41. Does she need to avoid flu shots?

They are incubated in eggs--I'm not allergic to eggs, but the shot causes a very bad reaction in me due to the eggs--doc said not to get flu shots .

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Oh yes, he's so allergic that he once got a reaction when

someone used the same spatula to dish up quiche and hamburgers.

[cgrindley]

40. I think it's an undue burden on the schools and the other families

Personally, we've banned peanuts and peanut butter in our house entirely (as my wife is breast feeding and there might be a link to future nut allergies), but I don't think that it's reasonable to ask the same of all the other parents and the school.