MSNBC: "Highly skilled and out of work: Long-term joblessness spreads in the middle class"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Highly skilled and out of work
Long-term joblessness spreads in the middle class

By Michael A. Fletcher
updated 12:53 a.m. PT, Mon., Jan. 21, 2008

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22764445/

WASHINGTON - An unusually large share of workers have been out a job for more than six months even as overall unemployment has remained low, a little-noted weakness in the labor market that analysts said threatens to intensify the impact of the unfolding economic downturn.

In November, nearly 1.4 million people -- almost one in five of those unemployed -- had been jobless for at least 27 weeks, the juncture when unemployment insurance benefits end for most recipients. That is about twice the level of long-term unemployment before the 2001 recession.

The problem is ensnaring a broader swath of workers than before. Once concentrated among manufacturing workers and those with little work history, education or skills, long-term unemployment is growing most rapidly among white-collar and college-educated workers with long work experience, studies have found, making the problem difficult for policymakers to address even as it grows more urgent.

"What has happened is a polarization of the labor market. It was very strong at the very top and very strong until recently at the bottom," said Lawrence F. Katz, a labor economist at Harvard University. "But in the recent weak recovery, and now recession, demand has been very weak" for jobs in the middle.

[SpiralHawk]

1. D'oh. Corporate republicon media is sure slow on the uptake

Get a clue, you bended-knee corporate propaganda tools.

Do something for America. Do your job, while you still have one.

You, too, can be outsourced to Mexico or Patagonia...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I found this out long ago

Nobody wants to hire an experienced older worker because they have to pay them more (at least in the teaching profession). Why do that when they can get younger people for less money? Also, employers are not willing to hire older folks because their health can be iffy, and health insurance premiums can go up for the company. So older workers are out of luck, unless they settle, as I did, for low paying jobs with no benefits. Bright spot about my job-I'm alone most of the day, and can visit DU when not answering phones. I consider it a perk of my job.

[rfranklin]

7. From a business owner: solution is single payer health care....

I am a business owner. The solution is to level the playing field so businesses are not the source of health insurance and insurance companies are not trying to screw the insured to create greater profit.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Amen!

Besides this, it will help the business owner because there will be less red tape and less headaches. And an owner can afford to hire seasoned workers.

[leftofthedial]

44. no candidate from either party

(at least according to the corporations that own the election process)

has the slightest interest in offering a single-payer solution.

This is one of the root problems in our economy and not a single viable candidate offers any solution. Indeed, they all propose to make things much, much worse.

[NikolaC]

63. No So

Kucinich does. However, since he is not considered to be a "viable" or "major" candidate, I guess it's a moot point huh?

[leftofthedial]

71. the corporations who control the election don't think he's a candidate

[mwb970]

66. Our "health care" system is different from other countries.

In other countries (every other Western country), the purpose of the health care system is to care for the health of its citizens. In America, the purpose of our "health care" system is to ensure large and growing profits for insurance companies and other corporations. This makes a huge difference in the results! Namely, people in other countries (every other Western country) pay less than we do for health care and get better results. (America was last of 19 in a recent preventable morbidity study; France was first.)

Fortunately for the corporations, Americans are not inclined to make a fuss over hard-to-understand problems like this.

[debbierlus]

70. It will be precisely the business community that wil force what you say....

Single Payer NOT FOR PROFIT Single Payer Health Insurance.

Unfortunately it will be ANOTHER five to ten years. Why? We need to execute & waste money on systems that WON'T WORK. The health insurance co. & big pharm will fight to their last breath to keep their obscene profits. However, they are overreaching so far, they will have brought about their own demise.

God help us for the next ten years.....

[blondeatlast]

89. Thank you for saying so. I've trumpeted this obvious fact to everyone I know and they just

don't get it.

:thumbsup:

[Atman]

3. They dropped 'em from the unemployment numbers to fake a low employment rate

Just one more BushCo LIE that has blown up in America's face, thanks largely to the Corporate Media and their failure to EVER question ANYTHING Bush does.

.

[SpiralHawk]

4. Correct. the republicons have fudged the numbers to lie to Americans. As usual.

republicon so-called "facts":

[sutz12]

60. Not only did they fudge the numbers, they used a brownie to do it.

:)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Why should they?

THEY have gotten everything they want from Bushco. They don't give a flying leap for anyone but themselves. They are rich and getting richer, so life's wonderful--for them. Too bad they are so short-sighted. This will come back to bite them on the backside, possibly this year.

[butterfly77]

65. When I began hearing about the layoffs..

of some in the media and other businesses some years ago I knew that they were lying. I have been waiting to see how long before the media could not hide this anymore.

[Fresh_Start]

5. Sadly, I seem to be in the minority of high income

in terms of worrying about income security for all Americans. But this one might get attention from other people.
The current politics of big money endangers us all. Multinational corporations are not loyal to America.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. You are so right

the fat cat CEOs of companies who have outsourced the jobs may now find that the Board of Directors have decided to outsource them as well.

[flashl]

43. A good example is the Kmart age discrimination lawsuits in the late 90s. n/t

[robbedvoter]

9. But, but - W just said we're fine now - so, this must be that librul media again!

[madrchsod]

11. well duhhhh

hell i`ll never make a decent living again...there`s no need for anyone with experience anymore. i`ll just wait out the next few years with temp jobs till retire then i`ll start reupholstering and selling window fashions again.

[Binka]

12. "What has happened is a polarization of the labor market." Oh Fucking A Horse Shit

Lawrence quit making this shit up. I mean really :wtf: does this mean exactly? If there aren't any fucking jobs in the middle then how does the center hold fucktard? What a MOTHERFUCKING WORTHLESS tool these dipshit economists are. Total bullshit blasting Bushbots.

[Ganja Ninja]

20. Yeah, What happened was someone convinced people that the

GOP wanted to help the middle class. They helped them out of their cash and their jobs.

[liberal N proud]

13. If the real unemployment number was reported these people would be on the list

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Yes, back during the Reagan administration, I was having coffee with

a teaching colleague who was from Germany, and my then-gentleman friend and one of his friends, a conventionally-minded economist came in and joined us.

We got talking about friends who were having trouble finding jobs, and this economist got snide, as right-wingers tend to do, and said, "At least we don't have 10% unemployment like Europe."

Fortunately, my German colleague had some facts at hand. She told him that German unemployment figures count EVERYBODY, including youth who have finished school and can't find a job and people who are working part-time when they'd rather be working full time. Furthermore, long-term unemployed were counted, because their benefits didn't expire after some arbitrary cutoff. She finished by saying that if the U.S. counted unemployed people the way Germany did, its rate would probably be HIGHER. (There were a lot of conservatives on that campus, so I'm sure she'd had that conversation before.)

[liberal N proud]

16. Yes it was the Raygun admin that changed that little number to avoid the truth

[MountainLaurel]

46. What an illustrative story

Good on your German colleague for smacking down the ignorance of the other with actual facts. I'm one of those who should have been counted in those stats (master's degree and 15 years' experience, worked part-time for a year after a relocation because I couldn't find work).

[unlawflcombatnt]

82. Excellent Point

The U.S. has this mass of Unemployed, working age Americans referred to as "Not-in-Labor-Force." Of the 233 million working age Americans (those from 16-65 years old), only 146 million are employed. But the unemployment rate is reduced because of that 233 million, 78 million are considered to be "not-in-labor-force." So instead of being counted as unemployed, they aren't counted at all. Under the Bush junta, a record high number of people have dropped out of the labor force--putting them in the not-in-labor-force category. When the working age population grows 3 million in one year, and total employment only increases 262 thousand, true unemployment has gone through the roof—despite any numbers to the contrary published by the Bush junta.

Here's a 1-page link to our overall employment situation:
http://www.bls.gov/web/cpseea1.pdf

Just for added interest, http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?&series_id=CES0500000031">Real Weekly Wages have decline -1% over the last year. Wage decline is further evidence that the labor supply is exceeding the demand for labor--which increases unemployment.


Economic Populist Forum

[Lydia Leftcoast]

84. Neat trick, isn't it?

If the number of unemployed grows too high, just don't count some of them.

I wonder how many of those "not in the labor force" people are in prison under bullshit anti-drug or three strikes laws.

Also, in the past ten years, I've been struck by the number of middle-class professional types who describe themselves as "consultants." That seems to be a face-saving way of saying, "I'm essentially unemployed, but I land a contract job every so often."

[1776Forever]

15. I can relate - been looking for over a year now - Have an MBA...

Yep - down here in Florida it is really getting rough to find anything over $12.00 an hour and then they say you are too over qualified!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead:

[IronLionZion]

21. You have an MBA and still have trouble?

Yikes! That scares me. I'm about to start an MBA in the fall. I hope things work out for you soon. Do you mind if I ask about your MBA like where you went and what's your specialty? You disabled private messages so I couldn't ask privately.

[1776Forever]

53. My MBA is from an accredited school here in Floria & I have 10+ years experience & many references

I had worked at Kennedy Space Center for 14 years. I was promised a job at a local corporation here but it was pulled by the Corporate Headquarters. It is very hard in this area unless you are an engineer or have a relative to help you out. Good luck!

[Elspeth]

17. Outsourcing, offshoring, downscaling, and the impoverishing of America

now comes to the workers who did everything right.

We are all Nibelungen now.

[PsN2Wind]

64. Those people in manufacturing

whose jobs were outsourced as the factories moved off-shore were also doing "everything right". You sound a bit elitist to me.

[supernova]

18. I'm an IT worker

ostensibly, and have been out of work for a year.

When I do work, I can make good money, (50K+) but jobs are not stable. You can't stay anywhere, least I can't.

I'm tired of having a "new day at work every 2-3 years. x(

I am seriously contemplating starting my own business, just so I can have the kind of clients I want and put out the quality of work I know I can do.

*sigh* It's all so fucked up.

[Deja Q]

23. I've seen a local place go out of business, thanks to places like Dork Troupe.

Name altered to protect the innocent(?)...

[supernova]

34. I know who you mean

but they don't and can't do what I do.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

56. That's the secret.

"they don't and can't do what I do"

I think that we all got comfortable, to a large degree, because why the hell shouldn't we?

So now we are in an economy in which outsourcing is king and the current administration favors the CEO over the working class, but there is always...ALWAYS...something YOU can do that THEY can't do.

Success lies in not being bitter...who the hell could possibly "accept" what Bush has done to our country...but moving forward in spite of circumstances.

I'm registered on LinkedIn and just received a really interesting response to one of my posts:

"My clients like the fact that I am original in every aspect."

I replied to the gentleman who sent this and high-fived him for his sentiments.

Times are tough. WE can be tougher.

:patriot:

[supernova]

61. "but moving forward in spite of circumstances."

I know you're right, but I'm finding that increasingly hard to do.

I'm tired. So very tired. There is just me; and I have no one else to turn to for inspriation in situations like this.

Sometimes it just plain hurts too much.

:cry:

[Amerigo Vespucci]

62. It hurts. It does. And when it hurts, you fight harder.

I'm speaking from experience. In my life I've found the answer to the question "Why should I keep fighting when I'm tired, it hurts, and I have no one to turn to when I need inspiration" to be:

"I need to keep fighting because THAT'S WHO I AM."

The rewards of life are generally right around the corner from the thing that hurts you the most, the moment in which you feel alone and abandoned, the moment in which you want, more than anything, to give up.

Trust me.

:grouphug:

[Elspeth]

25. Aren't IT jobs contracted a lot? I never understood that, BTW

But IT jobs seem to get outsourced to contractors and the companies that hire IT people vary in their benefits.

[supernova]

33. Yes, a lot of IT work is contract

through contracting companies.

Outsourcing is on a continuum. First they outsourced to others in America, now they outsource to others overseas (India and now China.)

*sigh*

It's cheaper for the company (in their minds) to not have to worry about paing bennies and pensions to contract workers. In practice I don't think so, but I'm not a number cruncher, I'm a writer and editor.

[Elspeth]

35. It just sucks. It's like the whole field is one big temp agency

ANd that seems to be where the job market is heading.

[supernova]

39. Yep,

I fear the workplace of the future, regardless of occupation, will be one vast temp job, except for CEOs and accountants.

[Elspeth]

42. You think the accountants won't be outsourced too?

I wonder about that. The big 5 accounting firms seem to be doing incredible business.

[supernova]

45. I dunno

they are the ones driving this everything must be cheap as possible argument in many corps.

But maybe not.

When I have been working, I've often contemplated sending my bosses' jobs overseas, just to see how they like it.

[Elspeth]

51. You know, I wonder if that's next.

Management jobs can be handled with importation of workers on special visas. Hm....

[Virginia Dare]

90. When I was in college back in the early 80's

"morning in America", IT was talked up as being the rock solid career for the future. Nobody ever imagined back then that those jobs would be gone in 20 years.

[kestrel91316]

19. Killing the middle class = killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

These fools won't see the truth until it's too late. It might already be.......

[PassingFair]

22. "..she was confident that the economy was strong and she would soon find work."

This particular woman is obviously STUPID.

I would choose her LAST from a pool of applicants.

:evilgrin:

[Deja Q]

24. You prefer pessimists to optimists?

[PassingFair]

28. I prefer people whose...

heads aren't up their ASSES!

She had NO clue that the economy was tanking?

That spells DOLT.

[EVDebs]

32. Let's all be PRAGMATIC here. Globalization and offshoring/outsourcing is killing the economy

And with oil prices RISING it'll get worse. The cheap oil that made most of this current system possible is ENDING.

[PassingFair]

37. I WAS being pragmatic.

I'm not blaming the economy on this woman.
I'm just saying she'd have to be an IDIOT
not to know that things are going south.

I deal with these idiots all the time. As
long as the shit is not getting sprayed on
THEM, they don't smell it.

For the record, I still have a good paying job.
My next door neighbor just moved a FAMILY INTO
THEIR BASEMENT.

Things have been turning sour for a LONG time.

The people who have chosen to play the "I've got
mine" mind game I have little sympathy for.

[PassingFair]

41. Maybe you didn't read the quote in context.

Here is more from her:

"Caroline Dixon never contemplated any of that when she resigned in April after nine months as a program officer with the Spina Bifida Association. She left because the job was "a bad fit," and she said she was confident that the economy was strong and she would soon find work. For a long time, she never stopped in the unemployment office on Naylor Road near her Southeast Washington home.

But as weeks out of work stretched into months, Dixon, 41, became a fixture there. Now she can be found there on weekdays, spending untold hours at the heavily used computer bank checking out potential employers, printing job notices and e-mailing her resume. "I jokingly tell
people that I'm headed to my office when I'm coming here," she said, without a smile."




I understand her quitting her job, I don't understand her thinking
it would be a "cakewalk" in this economy to find a new one at the
same level, that's all.

[leftofthedial]

26. D fuckin UH,

Last paycheck for me, after a successful 20-year career-was May of 2005.

[Johonny]

27. very strong until recently at the bottom

Is that ever a good sign unless you're a third world country.

[The2ndWheel]

29. This is why economic growth will eat the planet

Everybody wants more. The upper class didn't get wealthy because they didn't want more. The middle class wants what the upper class has. The lower class, which by definition must exist as long as we have "upper" and "middle" classes, is there to be promised a better life come election time.

The middle class only exists because energy is cheap. Well, not really cheap, since we pay for increasing use of energy by environmental degradation, but we live in an economic system, and we're not getting out. That's the same reason the upper class exists, it's just that it started when the cheap energy was that of other people, then non-humans, then that lovely stuff we found in the ground.

We get economic growth, or a habitat. One of the two.

[Berry Cool]

30. Aw, no problem! All they need is retraining!

Retraining for the jobs of the future! Jobs where the most important thing is knowing how to...um...er...ask people if they want fries also, or if they want to apply for the store loyalty card or credit card. (How long they keep their jobs will depend on how many people they are able to sign up for the card. If they don't make quota, out they go.)

On edit: This Dixon woman's mother is lucky her mother understands. If it were my mother, God rest her soul, she'd still be lambasting me for having quit a perfectly good job on the notion that it was a "bad fit." To her dying day she believed that the only reason anyone in this country ever lost a job was because they were a "bad employee." And being a "bad employee" included doing things like actually TAKING the amount of vacation time that had been allotted to you.

[EVDebs]

31. Why hire a highly skilled American worker when you can import labor with H1b visas ?

Nurses,
http://www.dbhealthcare.com/india/h1-b_processing_requirements.asp

Teachers,
http://www.newh1.com/h1b_teachers.html

Schools and hospitals sponsor ? Hmmm. I already knew about Silicon Valley's penchant for these visas, but this is ridiculous. And to claim there aren't enough nursing and teaching candidates from the domestic labor pool is ludicrous.

Oh, did I forget to mention they wouldn't be unionized ?

[lovuian]

40. Yes the days of importing jobs when a jobless rate is sky high

is going to be hard and yet I saw John Warner saying they need to increase these and I believe Hillary has said these must be increased or did I hear her wrong if I did I apologize
and will just rake Warner over the coals

[EVDebs]

72. She said it all right. She claims it's all for high tech, but that's not the case

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

[Berry Cool]

36. Another scary thing struck me reading this article.

Both of the skilled, educated, experienced jobless people whose stories are told here are PROPERTY OWNERS. One has a small income from a rental property and the other is afraid of losing his house, but is having the mortgage paid by others right now.

What about the people who don't even own a home at all who are in this fix?

[PassingFair]

38. They are moving into people's basements.

My next-door neighbor just moved a childhood friend
into her basement. Along with her 10 BIRDS and 2 DOGS.

It's cold down there (we're in Michigan), but it's
less intrusive than a shelter. People are moving back
in with their parents.

It's a disaster here...

[Amerigo Vespucci]

54. I've spoken to three people, age 65 and over, in the last week who are supporting their kids.

They all say the same thing:

"I can leave it to them when I die, or I can help them now, when they need it."

I'm reminded of Dick Cheney's enthusiastic acknowledgment of how "People are selling a lot of stuff on eBay".

One thing's for sure...the days of having a well-paying job, commensurate with your skills and experience...one that allows you to support your family and live the American Dream of owning a home...

...these are the days that we need to re-claim after two terms of Bush-Cheney.

:patriot:

[PassingFair]

57. My husband hasn't been able to charge what he's worth, as a

graphic artist/designer for 5 years.

It's put quite a strain on our marriage.

I'm hoping for a democratic win this election and
I'm disgusted with our "choices".

[Rex]

47. Expect a few decades of this.

Long term unemployment for the skilled market. Service sector jobs are, as always, available. Brush up on your retail skills. Brush off that resume.

[earth mom]

48. This is why I believe there is something fishy going on with the caucuses.

I don't believe that people who are out of work or struggling living paycheck to paycheck are going to want corporate loving Hillary or Obama or any corporately owned rethuglican in office because it only hurts them: the middle class, the working class and the poor. I don't think people are going to vote against their own self interests any more.

Edwards is on message for the middle class, the working class, and the poor. And the powers that be are trying like hell to shut him up and steal votes from him. :puke:

[kineneb]

49. I have given up.

Hubby did have a good job until 2002 (WorldCom). After that, there was nothing- the job he did got outsourced. Since then, he has become disabled. We sold the house in the SF Bay Area for enough to buy something in the country. I have worked on getting our "fixed" expenses to around $600/month so we can survive on his SSDI.

I have a BA and completed grad studies (ABT). I gave up on finishing my MA when I realized that there were not going to be any "real" jobs in my field: college-level music history/theory. At the same time, my mental health hit the skids. The most I hope for in the future is SSI disability payments and a few under-the-table bucks from private piano lessons. I have just given up. So much for the "American Dream", it is just that- a dream.

[Elspeth]

55. With an MA, could you have gotten a community college position?

Just wondering

[kineneb]

74. that was my aim

but about the time I finished classes, the JCs quit hiring full-time teachers, and began using only part-timers, so they do not have to pay benefits. I could not survive on the pay for one or two classes, or become a traveling teacher.

I am now caregiver for Hubby, who does not have a good prognosis. Meanwhile, I am trying not to fall apart mentally.

[Rex]

58. Same thing happen to me, worked for Cyberlog Ltd.

Company fell apart after 911, barely survived. Was on unemployment. Scarytimes, hard to believe these times are even worse. :(

[Skidmore]

50. Karma come home to roost. When it was manual laborers, the

white collar worker stood by and did not support them, participated in breaking labor unions, and pooh-poohed their concerns. White collar/professionals are reaping the karma from their arrogance and sense of being indispensible.

[lisainmilo]

52. WTHELL!

Get even attitude? Kharma? This type of immature thinking will solve nothing.

[Skidmore]

83. I have vivid memories as a union steward of trying to get white collar

workers to organize in solidarity with the skilled laborers at the place I used to work. They refused to join in because they considered themselves management, when they weren't really. After all the bells and whistles on the benefit packages not afforded the manual laborer, they just didn't see themselves as "working for the man" any longer and were indispensable. It's not a get even attitude but a very real contributing factor to what white collar workers are experiencing now.

[dysfunctional press]

59. my wife is a graphic/web designer, and she lost her job just before thanksgiving.

she's been keeping busy temping and has had several interviews- she was supposed to have another interview tomorrow at harpo studios in chicago(oprah show) for a contract position- but since thursday, she's received two other job offers at different places and accepted one- she starts in two weeks(permanent full-time w/benefits), as soon as her current temp assignment is complete.

it seems as if it's one field where there's still a lot of work to be found.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

67. What took them so long to figure this out???

The government lies about the unemployment figures. The educated middle class started having trouble getting jobs back in the mid-1990s. It's been going on for over 10 years, and it really started with Reagan's union busting in 1981. If you're over 40, forget it.

And now the oil business wonders why they can't find oilfield labor, or even programmers and engineers, to work for them, after they got laid off every two to three years by bosses who were constantly poormouthing, even when marking up jobs two and a half to three times cost.

The oil companies can call the WAAAHHHHMBULANCE!!

[antigop]

68. Hey, let's all vote for a corporatist and keep things going the way they are

:sarcasm:

[HughBeaumont]

73. Preferrably one that does business with Indian offshoring companies!!

Just what I look for in a Democratic candidate for sure.

You know, because the mighty Republican slime machine isn't going to use her support of free trade and job offshoring against her! NOoooooooo . . .

[librechik]

69. Reagan urged me to get better educated to get a better job

now I have a wicked student loan and a liberal arts job --lots of satisfaction, some benefits, pauper level salary.

Looks like I'm not alone--and better off than many!

[antigop]

75. FYI -- accounting outsourcing...

http://www.ifrstaffing.com/accounting.html

[antigop]

76. FYI -- outsourcing banking and financial services

http://www.outsource2india.com/services/banking_financial.asp

[antigop]

77. FYI --outsourcing radiology

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621014/

[antigop]

78. FYI -- outsourcing the lawyers

http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/news/economy/lawyer_outsourcing/

[antigop]

79. FYI --outsourcing wave hits investment bankers -- research analysis

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/22/news/companies/banks_outsourcing/index.htm

[antigop]

80. FYI --outsourcing tutoring

http://future.iftf.org/2005/05/outsourcing_tut.html

[antigop]

81. FYI --outsourcing graphic design

http://www.accesstechnologyindia.com/graphic-design-company.htm

[antigop]

85. FYI--outsourcing architectural services to India

http://www.outsource2india.com/services/architectural_engineering.asp

[jayfish]

86. "a little-noted weakness in the labor market "

That's funny, I hear it everyday here at DU and have heard it every day here for at least five years. Who in the fvck does the media think it's fooling here? Just because they never bother to dig any deeper than the shit being shoveled on them doesn't mean we haven't.

Jay

[antigop]

87. FYI--outsourcing journalism

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/19/business/outsource.php

[antigop]

88. FYI --outsourcing actuarial services

http://www.outsourcing-weblog.com/50226711/exodus_of_150000_london_jobs_to_india_by_2010.php