Well... John McCain will be within 2 miles of my house in an hour ... CNN already there.

[TahitiNut]

They're camped out in Clawson, MI ... he's in Warren (5 miles east) and coming to Clawson ... and the GOP is selling its snake oil to the underemployed and unemployed and people busting their asses for less and less.

Where's Hillary? In Nevada. Where's Barack? In South Carolina. Where's John? In South Carolina.

Dennis is here ... but I'm told he just doesn't count. The DU-DLC-mob says he's not worth listening to.

I guess it's too cold here. And not enough money? Maybe Dennis has a warm coat. Hillary doesn't . Barack doesn't. John doesn't. "Warm Weather Friends" instead of "winter soldiers" ... Michigan has the WORST unemployment in the nation and it's been abandoned by the Democratic Party (Who Cares What You Think??) and RAPED by the cheap labor, torturer, off-shoring GOP. But WHO will people suffering vote for?? The ones who sell 'em snake oil.

So ... here's the question. I keep on hearing how we're aboslutely required to support WHOMEVER is nominated by the Democratic Party ... because, of course, of the Greater Evil. Why then has Michigan been tossed under the bus? Just WHO in Michigan can hear that and not have the taste of ASHES in our mouths?

I have a real problem supporting ANYONE who doesn't give a shit enough to even make MY VOTE COUNT.

If my vote doesn't count in the primary - and this state isn't worth their time - then WHY THE FUCK DO THEY THINK THEY DESERVE IT IN THE GENERAL?

I'll be grateful for the chance to Write-In "Dennis Kucinich" in November 2008. Keep insulting the people in this state and I may not even do that.

:grr: :grr:

[Yael]

1. I don't even get to vote until April

Tell me about a vote not counting.

*sigh*

[TahitiNut]

4. At least it gets counted then. At least your state will have delegates seated.

The only names on the Dem Primary Ballot here are Clinton, Dodd, Gravel, Kucinich, and "uncommitted" and THE DLC REFUSES TO SEAT THE MICHIGAN DELEGATES at the convention.

Only Kucinich is appearing ... and his (GOP-lite) DETRACTORS attack him for doing that!! :grr:

I've gotten over a dozen telephone campaign calls ... one was even a Romney "town meeting" where I could've asked questions. ALL the calls have been GOP. I'm a registered "independent" (uaffiliated) and they apparently think I'm worth courting.

The "leading" Democrats don't. The "leading" Democrats have, in effect, Fuck You!"

Why shouldn I say the same to them????

[Yael]

13. I hear ya

:(

[salin]

14. oops - I forgot that when I posted below.

that would be frustrating.

[KoKo]

7. May 5th for me and I'll never see them... But, I plan on "writing in" the name

of my candidate, if they aren't the "chosen one" by then.

[katmondoo]

2. I thought the Democrats were not allowed to vote

something about not heeding the rules of the party.

[Demeter]

5. The Vote Won't Count

Although there's talk of letting the Uncommitted attend the convention....we'll just have to wait and see.

[Demeter]

3. We Got Tossed Under the DNC Bus By the DLC

And guess whose is the only big name still on the Michigan Democratic ballot?

[TahitiNut]

6. Exactly! (It's "cui bono" in spades!)

:grr:

Granholm is DLC. Stabenow is DLC. The state party is overrun with DLCers.

[KoKo]

21. Many of us Dems (who call ourselves "Progressives" got tossed under that BUS...

and the "tire tracks" are leaving imprints as they go back and forth across our bodies ...for those of us who've been here since "Stolen Election 2000." The blood is drying...they better watch out because the bitterness will have BIG Ramifications down the road. They don't see it...but it's coming. "A Big Wind Rising" but not seen over the horizon. And it's not just our "little scraggley band"...it's those behind us.

[KoKo]

8. I don't understand why Edwards was the "good guy" by abiding by Dem Rules

and withdrawing his name. It's very odd. Will the Dem Primary even count if all the candidates aren't on the ballot. Hillary, Kooch and Gravel are the only ones on the ballot now..right?

A mess. Frontloading and games. I don't blame Dean but the state parties for screwing this up.

K&R..

[TahitiNut]

9. Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinich ... in THAT order.

... followed by "Uncommitted." That's the ballot ... and THE DLC SAYS IT DOESN'T COUNT - the delegates, no matter WHO wins, won't be seated according to the DLC. Yes --- it's claimed that the "presumptive nominee" will prevail and have them seated ... SO FUCKING WHAT? Just WHO is the "presumptive nominee"???

It has me so pissed I can't see straight. The goddamned hypocrisy!

This state has suffered more from the CORPORATIST greed and RAPE than any other. And they're being tossed into the GOP 'bag" ... EXCEPT for the GOP-lite Corporatists in the Democratic Party.

Here are the BALLOTS we get ... (pdf file) ... https://services2.sos.state.mi.us/mivote/MVIC_Ballots/PrimaryBallot.pdf

[tokenlib]

10. Tuesday its UNCOMMITED time...

Sadly, I don't think the word has gotten out on the Michigan primary. A lot of people don't even know about the DNC-MI party spat. Some will spoil their ballots with write-ins. It is a wretched demoralizing disaster. And I wanted the early primary! I thought it would get worked out.

Now all we can do is spread the word "mouth to mouth." The number of times I have had to explain this mess is beyond count. A lot of people don't catch the local news apparently.

So Tuesday I vote my hopes as uncommitted. I'll be damned if I do anything to help Hillary get a "win" reported in the media. Though I think that is what will happen if the word doen't get out...

[TahitiNut]

12. I think that's bullshit. From the same people who brought us "You Don't Count"

All they're asking is that we toe the line and surrender OUR OWN CHOICES and give a PROXY to the "leadership."

Maybe if we comply, like good little sheep ... then they'll kindly and generously seat those UNCOMMITTED (rubber stamp) DELEGATES?

I'll call that "Astro Turf"!!

That's NOT "democracy"!!!

(Sheesh!! It's like the old Soviet Union 'voting' for Stalin!)

[KoKo]

23. I don't believe it was Howard Dean, though...something fucked this up

and did Florida, too with delegates that don't count. DU Poster "MadFloridian" feels it was the Dem State Parties in Collusion with the Repugs. My experience with Dem Party here in NC makes me believe that for sure it "could be" Collusion...because the STATE PARTIES are STILL for the most part DLC controlled. A lot was put in place for '08 by the former Chair and not Howard Dean...he's fighting the EVIL WIND that's wanted him GONE since he defied the DLC managing to get the Charimanship.

But the "Throw them Under the Bus" MEME is what seems to have infected our Dem Party since they got back the House and Senate in '06. I think they just "don't see us out here." Pelosi's complaints about "Code Pink" destroying her property ...hanging underwear in her trees...and wearing "Impeach Cheney T-Shirts" kind of clued many of us in that "something isn't quite right" in our Progressive Hemisphere.

Nancy thought if the protestors were "Homeless" she could have had them arrested as "Vagrants" but because they were expressing their "FREE SPEECH" with "Impeach Cheney" they got a free pass to hang clothes in her "landscaping." :eyes:

[Snotcicles]

27. Looks like Dennis tried to get off the ballot. It all smells so DLC to me.

http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1253

[KoKo]

22. A "calculated mess" it would seem .. WHAT ELSE could EXPLAIN IT?

:shrug:

[salin]

11. It is due to the front ended super primary day

too many places to cover in too short of a time. When I lived in Michigan it was a big deal primary day; Ohio, Illinois and Michigan all voted on the same day. I think it was just before the "Super Tuesday" (earlier version of the big primary) in the south. And in 1992, Michigan got a lot of attention. Especially from Jerry Brown. My candidate vowed that he had to do well in these primaries or he would get out of the race. Sadly, Paul Tsongas stepped out of the race after the "rust belt" primary day.

Just imagine those of us south of you. We don't vote until May.

[TahitiNut]

15. That's when blue collar labor at least got lip service.

That's when they still had to at least PRETEND that the WORKING CLASS (aka "rust belt") would be counted.

[salin]

19. If I recall that is the year after Engler (R) upset Blanchard (D)

for Governor. Prior to the Engler era, Michigan was viewed as a blue state rather than a swing state. Though I would venture to say that if given the right amount of attention (per the gripe in your post) were devoted in the state the state would be much less swing and much more blue.

[TahitiNut]

20. I remember when, on Labor Day of an Election Year, Detroit was like Mecca for Democrats.

Promises, promises .... :puke:

[NNN0LHI]

16. They all can't be everywhere at once TahitiNut

I have seen no evidence that the top Dem candidates have any plans on ignoring Michigan and the issues there.

If I do see some evidence of that I will look at this situation differently.

I will recommend this thread because the subject is important.

Don

[TahitiNut]

17. Yeah. That's what I said. I want them "everywhere". Uh-huh. Riiiight.

Typical. A Straw Man followed by an Appeal To Ignorance. "Fallacies R Us" must be doing a lot of business these days.

:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

18. Don't taze me bro

Maybe I misread your post or something?

Backing out of here.

Don

[KoKo]

24. Jimmy Carter did a 50 STATE Train Tour back in the 70's...when it was more difficult.

Now their "Private Corporate Jets" can have them ANYWHERE within a few hours. They travel like Bush...although "AF-1" probably has extra speed for the Chimperor...:eyes:

[H2O Man]

25. One of the things

that is important for people who are frustrated with the process to remember is that this is an important time to be writing letters to the editor of local newspapers. (I know that TahitiNut knows this as much as I do, and am taking an opportunity to add this to a threat that communicates the dissatisfaction many people feel.)

Campaigns, in both primaries and in general elections, do two things: they encourage letter-writing campaigns, because they know that the LTTE part of the editorial page(s) becomes the "most closely read" section of any paper -- from small-town to big city. And they read the LTTE in papers of all sizes.

Amendment #1 is one of the most powerful of democracy's muscles. We need to make use of it.

[Orangepeel]

26. I don't know why Michigan dems were "thrown under the bus." Florida dems were by the state party

I understand that many people would rather have a national primary day and/or rotating regional primaries. I also understand the idea behind the way it is now. Having a few small states early can, in theory, allow less funded candidates time to meet voters and get their message out. Having it in the same ones all the time lets those candidates plan ahead and start early.

Which way would be better is completely debatable, and I see that there is unfairness in the current system. So, I understand. But I also think that state parties should play by the rules that are in place.

I don't know enough about Michigan, but I know a lot about Florida. The state party thought that Florida should be more of a player, tried to circumvent the rules to get more influence, ended up screwing themselves, and then blamed the DNC and state republicans for it. But the truth is, it's only symbolic. The 2004 primary vote in Florida didn't matter (Kerry was the only one left in the race). That's why the state party wanted to make it earlier. Now, the 2008 primary vote really won't matter. Michigan is probably the same way.

[TahitiNut]

28. Both Michigan and Florida have been regarded as "battleground" states.

No matter what way I cut it, this FUBAR benefits the right-wing ... the GOP and "conservative" Dems. Mostly the GOP.

All I can ask is "cui bono?"

The finger-pointing between the State Party, the National Party, the candidates, the in-state Establishment politicians, and the FACTIONS within the Party all ignore one thing ... that the VOTERS have been given the finger.

When partisan politics SHUTS DOWN VOTER participation, then a POX on all their houses.

It's the antithesis of "democracy" - and STINKS of Corporate Politics.

[vssmith]

29. I hear you! I hear you!

Michigan has been a reliably Democratic state for years. Why do Iowa and HH get all that power to select our nominee? Now we are being totally kicked to the curb.