The problem with fringe candidates asking for re-counts instead of front runners...

[mirrera]

In Ohio the Green party stepped up to the plate to try and save our Democracy and because Kerry and Edwards did not (I am an Edwards supporter so don't go there) the media was justified in not focusing on it and most people had no idea a re-count fight was even happening. Myself and other voting rights activists followed every article, every nuance. We received blow by blow accounts. We watched as an election official became a whistle blower because some voting machine vendor did some swapping out of hardwear and gave her some numbers to use if she wanted the count to come out right. They rigged the re-count, some people finally ended up in jail because of it, and it was all way below the radar of the average American.

I am surprised by the posts making fun of people who are pro re-count. Insinuating that we will cry foul if the numbers match. That we will claim the re-count is rigged because we are just so...lame. GAWD I am losing my patience.

When Nader called for a re-count in NH, because he was a fringe candidate, (I choke to use the word fringe for Kucinich or Nader but it is a reality brought to us by Perception Management Corp.) once again the media went elsewhere. They did not follow the un-randomness of what was counted and where.

Let me be very clear here so no accusations fly later...

A rigged recount is worse than none, at this point of the voting rights fight. The last thing we need is to believe that these machines are OK as they currently operate. There has not been ONE single security report that has reassured me. NOT ONE.

If I hear from reputable people that there was a full re-count of the paper ballots —and I mean people who are EDUCATED about this issue, not someone who's secratary does email for them— I will be delighted for the candidates and still fight like hell to change the system so that truly random hand counts are part of our election law.

BUT, mark my words, if I hear from the voting rights activists (and that is what they are, not tinfoil hat wearing- pitch fork carrying- Hillary hating whatevers) that this recount is F**ked with, I am not going to be afraid to say it. Not at DU.

This is an issue that is so much bigger then this one race.
No candidate should be afraid to ask for a hand re-count. We must encourage top ranked candidates to do it routinely, so that no one would dare rig an election. Instead we are carrying water for the cheaters, by helping to move forward the narrative that a re-count symbolizes "sore loserdom".

Re-counting is our right, and should be welcomed as a search for integrity and truth and trust.

We do all believe in integrity, truth and trust... don't we?

[EFerrari]

1. I've been asking for days for someone to show me a thread

where the Hillary hating, Obama supporting tinfoilhat wearing nutcases are and, what a surprise, no one has bothered to answer my question.

As far as your proposal goes, election reform activists are dealing with this in real time. I hope you are helping them more than you are setting yourself up to resent the results of their best efforts.

[mirrera]

5. I am not setting myself up to "resent their best efforts"

I am watching "their best efforts" get thwarted again and again by the closed minded people that only see the race that is in front of them and not the bigger picture of our entire vote counting apperatus. I applaud the activists best efforts and if people actually heeded their warnings and advice we would not be in this situation.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. The point of the recount

is to let the GOP know that we are done putting up with their thefts. I have been saddened by people demeaning Kucinich for doing this, but I saw it on a couple of threads yesterday and today. My answer to them was if they wanted to be enablers for the neocons or supporters of fair elections and the Constitution. Interestingly enough, I never got responses.

[EFerrari]

3. Oh, and I forgot to add, Kucinich is not fringe.

He's a Democrat. Fringe is moving 3/4s of the way to the right and pretending you still belong in the Democratic party.

[mirrera]

8. I love Kucinich and became a Democrat to caucus for him.

As I said in my post I cringe to call him a fringe candidate. in the media world that informs most of America that is what they would describe him as. I personally find it difficult to believe anyone would consider themselves informed without being on line, but consistently I slam into the reality of the CNN liberal who barely knows who he is. It dismays me to no end. I sincerely mean that.

[truedelphi]

4. Well you know who was very discouraging to both Kerry and Edwards

on Nov 3rd 2004. Kerry got discouraged from his considering not conceding by Carville. Edwards was personally phone by Hillary and told to quit "grandstanding" when he ws out there saying that no one would concede until every vote would be counted.

Also the Media is the Big Lie. It has been known to run headlines that were false, only to have the article state the truth in the last two sentences of an eight column story. It has been known to run an entire story that is false, and to make up quotes and then assign the supposed participants' names to the quotes. I learned this from covering the MTBE gas additive story in the state of California.

This isn't because the Media doesn't understand the issue. Media understands all the issues - how awful FDA approved drugs can be. How awful the voting machines are. How wretched the outsourcing of jobs is. But a big media talking head cannot get very far in this country as a reporter in the "legitimate" big network world unless being part of the Corporate COntrolled vision and signing on to part or all of the CIA propaganda machinery.

Blitzer fits this mold in an obvious way. Brokaw fits this in an understated way.. And of course, it doesn't mean that you had to sign on to the CIA or ever get a paycheck from them. For instance, Glen Beck is doing good propaganda work, why trouble the guy into realizing how he is being used as a tool when he is doing such a good job without that knowledge.

As far as local media, they are bought out. Why isn't every local news team on Television present stories (on a daily basis) about how rotten the health care system is? After all, this is one of the things we are all talking and thinking and obsessing about.

Well, think about how every time you watch the news, on a local channel, one of two or three hospitals in your area has a prominent sixty second ad. That ad isn't to help consumers decide on choosing them. Most of us are assigned a doctor by our HMO and can only go to whatever hospital that doctor is at.

The reason the HMO's and hospitals advertise is so there ad revenue makes sure that the nurses' strike is covered in a certain way. So that the Universal Health CAre, Single Payer opinion is never ever voiced on the news. Or portrayed by any stories.

I have never seen the Talking Heads on C Span turn green so fast as when a caller recently phoned in to say that he thought that there was only one political party in the USA - and that no matter who is elected nothing will be different. It is jsut too close to the truth. And they don't want us to give up on elections - elections are compelling to We The Slavebots and we tune in and watch on primary nights and election nights. It is Big Business and Big Business Media is not wanting even a discussion of the Overall truth.

[mirrera]

6. I agree. But we have to make it harder and more embarassing for them to mturn away.

They follow the rock stars, and when the rock stars do something they are forced to report it.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

10. Wow! Thanks - great post. Can you source that Hillary-Edwards call?

That's a pretty big huge gigantic deal in my eyes

Your post is short but filled with tons of insight. Write more!

[truedelphi]

14. Hi Phoebe L

You asked for a source regarding the Hillary-Edwards phone call.

Unfortunately my source died. And before he died, I didn't ask him who his source was, as I was in denial that I was about to lose a good friend.

But I am about to try and get ahold of various Edwards' people and see if I can trace it down to origianl source.

The fact that H. called E. a grandstander was posted several times on DU before I began posting it, so someone else here had heard about it as well.

Thanks for saying I should write more. My writing career has been on hold since my husband became ill Oct 2005.

But if you google "Carol Sterritt" + "stolen" and trace down those leads, you should hit upon my stories on the stolen election and also usually the chemtrail story comes up as well. (In Germany, environmentalists are suing the government over the chemtrails, and the media supports them, but here in the USA it is very 'tinfoil" to even think about it.)

Thanks for the praise. I think more people on DU have me on ignore than ever read me.

Carol

[truedelphi]

12. Here is what Jeb Bush has to say about the hold that the New Corporate State has on the Truth

"The truth is useless. You have to understand this right now.

"You can't deposit the truth in a bank. You can't pay rent with the truth. You can't buy groceries with the truth. The truth is a useless commodity that will hang around your neck like an albatross-all the way to the homeless shelter. And if you think that the million or so people in this country that are really interested in the truth about their government can support people who would tell them the truth, you got another think coming. Because the million or so people in this country that are truly interested in the truth don't have money."
---Jeb bush

[cynatnite]

7. Personally, I don't think there was any rigging in the NH primary...

but I support recounts all the way no matter who asks for them. They are an important part of our democracy and should always be taken seriously, IMO.

[Kucinich4America]

9. Kucinich isn't fringe, but he was the perfect one to ask for the recount.

Obama couldn't ask for the recount, since he would obviously benefit from a change in the numbers.

Hillary wouldn't ask for the recount as she's the alleged winner of the election.

Edwards could have asked, but even though his own numbers probably wouldn't change much, he might still be seen as playing it to his advantage, as he's still considered a viable threat to the so-called "front runners".

Dennis isn't going to win the recount. He probably isn't going to win South Carolina. But for him, the principle of a fair and honest election is more important. And that goes for me as well.

[emlev]

11. This is a good moment to remember...

"First they ignore you
then they ridicule you
then they fight you
then you win."

--Gandhi

Seems to me like we're moving through those steps, and in some places we're already on #3.

[AGirl]

13. yup there should be a recount