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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:18 PM
Original message
Mother Hillary
"...they treat you like dirt I dont care what anybody says itd be much better for the world to be governed by the women in it you wouldnt see women going and killing one another and slaughtering when do you ever see women rolling around drunk like they do or gambling every penny they have and losing it on horses yes because a woman whatever she does she knows where to stop sure they wouldnt be in the world at all only for us they dont know what it is to be a woman and a mother where would they all of them be if they hadnt all a mother..." James Joyce Ulysses




I have my own theory about why Hillary did better in New Hampshire than in Iowa. It is because somewhere between 20-30% of New Hampshire residents identify themselves as being of Irish or Scots-Irish descent, whereas only 13% of Iowans claim to be descended from the Irish. If I am correct, we can expect Hillary Rodham Clinton to defy the corporate media’s expectations in every community that has a sizable Irish, Scots-Irish or Welsh population.

All three Democratic front runners have devoted followings, based upon their almost mythic appeals. In previous journals, I have discussed Obama’s messianic qualities, John Edwards’ qualifications for American sainthood. Now, I am going to describe why I think that women (and some men) are so enamored of the Hillary 2008 campaign.

It all boils down to the same issue that drives all Democratic voters this election----George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have been disasters. They have created a war of choice that has bled this country dry. We are unable to provide for the basic needs of our children. Children in other countries are dying before our eyes, at our hands . It is enough to make a citizen with a conscience cry.

In a situation like this, when an excess of testosterone combined with greed seems to be the driving force behind all that ails us, it is natural for the American matriarchy to hold up its hand and say “What about the women?”

The American Matriarchy is a tricky subject, since so many people will deny that it exists. It depends upon what kind of family you grew up in, what religion they followed, where you were born and a whole lot of other factors. Just take my word for it, if your family is Irish, there is indeed an American Matriarchy.

http://www.madinpursuit.com/Family/General/Emigrant02.htm

Social scientists describe Irish culture as matriarchal, and mothers hold considerable if not singular sway in Irish American families. Unmarried women command far more respect than in other ethnic groups. Irish girls are raised to be respectable, responsible, resilient -- and rarely with any expectation that they're going to be taken care of. For better or worse, there is no such thing as an Irish American princess.


Joseph Campbell offers an explanation for this phenomenon. In volume three of Mask of the Gods entitled Occidental Mythology he devotes two chapters to goddesses. In the first one, “The Serpent’s Bride”, he describes how most of Indo-Europe and Africa worshiped a pair of deities, a male and his wife, in the stone age through the bronze age. The male was associated with the serpent.

With the coming of iron age Aryan invaders, these deities were ruthlessly suppressed---the tale of Eden in Genesis was meant to vilify the Serpent God and his goddess consort. However, in Ireland, the suppression never took. Campbell describes how goddess tales and worship persisted even after the introduction of iron age male deities to the pantheon.

Later, St. Patrick would drive the serpents from Ireland (though the country never had snakes), but women would not assume the subservient positions that they occupied in southern Europe, the Middle East or Africa. The same is true across the Irish Sea in England, Scotland and Scandinavia, countries where Queens could rule with divine mandate just as men could.

We have no queens in the United States, but we have goddesses---who are often reviled as she-demons, modern day Liliths by leaders of the status quo. Mother Jones, born Mary Harris in Cork, Ireland is one such. Persecuted, prosecuted, called “the most dangerous woman in America” for the crime of attempting to organize workers, including child laborers, she said “Whatever your fight, don’t be ladylike.”

We also have an old tradition of electing the wives of politicians. Take for example, Ma Ferguson (a fine Scots-Irish name that) of Texas, who ran for governor after her husband was impeached and won in 1925. And then won again in 1932. Some politicians' wives become goddesses. Take Eleanor Roosevelt for example. She became one of the most influential political figures of the 20th century in her own right--and even more controversial than her husband. Note that she, like Hillary, was accused by the press of being a lesbian.


We have literal goddesses in the New World, too. In Maya Deren’s Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti she describes the serpent deity Damballah “ the venerable father….as of a world before the troubles began, and his children would keep him so: image of the benevolent, paternal innocence, the great father of whom one asks nothing save his blessing.” Damballah appears coupled with a rainbow, Ayida, his feminine half, the goddess consort.

This is not a mythology of three thousand years ago. This is an active religion. And much of the iconography of the Virgin Mary comes from retained goddess worship, New as well as Old World. In particular, Mary is the retelling of Isis, widely worshiped through the Mediterranean during the early years of the Roman Empire.

Isis, the Egyptian goddess was married to her brother Osiris, god of agriculture. Her brother Set, god of animal husbandry, killed Osiris in a fit of jealousy and dismembered his body and hid the pieces. Isis reassembled the pieces and conceived a child, Horus by her re-animated husband, Osiris. Horus killed his wicked uncle, became the new god-king, and Osiris became the god of the dead. In addition to being an obvious source of the Abel-Cain myth (except from the point of view of farmers not shepherds) and a forerunner of Mary iconography, this is a tale about the miracle which the love of a good woman for her man can perform. So the forces of evil conspired to murder your husband (or his reputation)? No problem. If his wife is a goddess, she can resurrect him---and his presidency again. All she has to be is stick with him through the bad times as well as the good.

Goddesses do not have it easy in this modern age of patriarchy, dominated as it is by war, acquisition, tough talk and lies. Campbell writes:

We are going to find, throughout the following history of the orthodox patriarchal systems of the West, that the power of this goddess-mother of the world, whom we have here seen defamed, abused, insulted, and overthrown by her sons, is to remain as an ever-present threat to their castle of reason…


In other words, though the patriarchy is currently in the ascendant, it watches over its shoulder, always afraid that its value system----dualistic, confrontational, egocentric---will be supplanted by the “feminine” principle which it fears. Unfortunately,

…with this turn from the plane of the mother to that of the sons, the sense of the identity of life and death disappears, together with that of the power of life to bring forth its own good forms, so that now all is strife and effort, defamation of what is alien….


Sounds like USA, 2007. No wonder those of us who are most inclined to look for the goddess in our patriarchal world see Hillary as a bringer of hope, Athena sprung fully formed and armed with wisdom from Bill Clinton’s head to lead America, like Athens, back to the path of Democracy.

This is a very old, very hard fought battle. Expect to hear her called “witch”, “Medusa”, “bitch” and all the other names with which the goddess has been labeled. The hatred of Hillary is directly proportional to the fear which her enemies have of her and no mere mortal woman could possibly have the kind of power which is attributed to her. Indeed, part of her reputation as a strong Democratic candidate rests upon the way that she makes the right wing tremble. Only someone full of power, some one possessed of true goddess spirit could inspire such loathing in the patriarchy, that is how the popular wisdom goes.

Hillary's relationship to Bill is important, as the cosmic coupling of the Serpent deity and the goddess is crucial in preserving the cycle of life, death and rebirth that keeps the earth in harmony. However, the goddess is the active intermediary force. As with Isis or Mary, she is the one to whom mortals appeal. She is the one who cares and intercedes. She takes the raw energy provided by the male spirit and fashions it into something useful for her children---a new guiding force. She cares.

Voters who support Hillary are not expecting four or eight more years of Bill. They are counting on four or eight years of Hillary plus Bill. Big difference.


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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. All the American/Irish women I know are for Obama.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 06:26 PM by aquart
My Russian/Polish/Jewish Mama (formerly Kucinich) and I (formerly Edwards) are for Hillary.

It was the piling on. We didn't like it.

Try again when you have some actual demographics.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Demographics are never 100%. Plus, remember that cultural characterists
can bleed through within communities, so that the the traits of one group can become the group norm, even for people who share a different heritage. It is easier to think of New Hampshire as a whole as more "Irish influenced" and Iowa as less "Irish influenced" than to say that Irish voters will do x and non Irish voters will do y. So, for instance, in New Mexico, you might see people of Anglo origin with Native American values simply because several generations of their family have lived there.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I am a scot/english/na mutt raised in a Boston Irish family and I'm not for Obama
I like Hillary- I like Edwards for Pres even more. But much of that post rings true for me. I have lived in New England all my life, surrounded by people of mostly Irish/Scot decent. The post makes a great deal of sense to me as a woman, as a Priestess and as an Irish-Scot.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Senator Clinton has given a pass to the war. And a future one as well.
Kucinich fills out your theory more fully. Maybe he's more in touch with that which you talk about here?
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Agree and the "Iron My Shirt" was a slap to all women. n/t
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm glad to see this stuff coming up, I've been thinking a lot about it lately.
I dreamed Hillary was Isis, and I was freaked out when Straight Story posted about somebody else saying the same. Then I was thinking last night, and I speculated it came from the Bill Clinton quote, oft quoted by conservatives from the Monica affair, where he says "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is." 'is' is. Isis. So the implication to my subconcious of the quote, I realized as I was falling asleep, was that Bill Clinton was actually married to Isis, the goddess of beauty and somehow Hillary stopped being Isis for a little. My subconcious also told me, through the dream, that Hillary could only win and fulfill the "prophecy" if she continued to be Isis to the American people.

I think Isis is a lot of things, and you are right in what you say above. But the Isis in my dream was also a "Pop Cultural" Isis, and her definition was effected by that quote, amonst other things. Specifically, Isis is 'is is', and to understand that you must know what 'is' is. If you think about it, 'is' refers simply to the connection between concepts. The dog "is" running connects the concept of dog to the concept of running, and its like that with everything. So "is" is connection. "Is is", or Isis, refers to a connection to the concept of connection itself.

So the archetypal Isis Hillary to me is about her connection, and her being connected to connection. She is about the things that all tie us together, a politics of "we" rather than a politics of "them". So there is this sense to win she has to be Isis, which means she needs to be about all of connected and whatever things connect us, it deals with the sense of us all being "One", love I guess, that sort of thing.

So its funny to ponder this stuff, but to my subconcious it all makes sense. Hillary can win if she can "play her part" as Isis, and connect us all. Otherwise, we could screw up, and the "dream" is lost. Funny stuff, the sunconcious mind. :)
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Polish Families are Matriarchal, Too
But I don't think there are many Hillary supporters among mine. I support Edwards, because I beleive he would help us win the class struggle for all except the insatiably greedy.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thought provoking and good storytelling, thanks : )
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, BTW, hi Mom!
:hi:

This one is for you!
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Interesting post.
At this point in the race, I just want to get on with it. Whoever wins, wins. However, there might be something to your theory.
For what it is worth, I am half Scott Irish and I also think Hillary will be her own person. Why would she want to just continue were Pres. Clinton left off? She would want to make her own mark on history.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. True and I agree with you.
She will be thoughtful and a lot more honest than any guy out there. Obama is a great speaker but how will he get the other side to agree with him? That is his aim. Make nice with the repuks. Edwards is very simplistic but still better than any republican. I like Hillary and have a hard time with the nonsense around here. There has not been a valid claim except that she voted the same way a lot of Senators did on the war. I find Obama it be disingenuous about his claims concerning the war and its funding.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. My Theory: non-residents were bussed in by Obama and caucused
Improperly.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Are we sure it wasn't illegal immigrant fairies who thought they were voting for Queen Maeve?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. yeah. Apparently you were only paying attention to what happened
in NH? Have you not been reading the threads about Iowa, or is your concern about voting fairness biased?
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bagrman Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bush and Cheney are about greed, Clinton has been in lock step with them,even voted for the Patriot
Edited on Sat Jan-12-08 12:50 PM by bagrman
Act and that in itself makes her unqualified. If you want change then you have to get away from the corporate shills. Clinton will be more of the same. If you want your freedom back you have to vote for someone who will undo what the fascist have done, and that ain't Clinton. The matriarchal powers that you which to bestow upon her will keep you a prisoner in your own country. Constitution be damned.

latr


Edited for spelling and the last 2 lines.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-12-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. OK, Same disclaimer that I made in the "Obama as messiah" and "John Edwards American Saint" Journals
This is not Clinton advocacy. I am not saying "Vote for Clinton, because she is the Goddess Isis made flesh." Jeez, would anyone at DU pick a candidate for that reason?

I am attempting to analyze the appeal which Hillary has for her die hard, hard core fans. All three of the Democratic front runners have a base which just loves their candidates to death. All three of them are running "I will transform this country" candidacies. Transformation is a mythic process. It captures the imagination but it also requires a great deal of faith and courage on the part of the followers. Having a charismatic leader is of the utmost importance. In this case, when the transformation is from a perceived inhumane, fascistic, warrior oligarchy, it becomes important to find leaders who come from outside the traditional status quo. Since we are a Christian nation---in our mythology, if not in our religion--it is natural for us to turn to Christian mythology for the archetypes of our new chosen leaders when we want transformation.

John Edwards is John the Baptist---a natural, self made man, without pretensions, destined to be martyred by the rulers of this land but still fearless, teaching wisdom to everyone, including....

Obama the Messiah, the natural leader, so bright and charismatic that even a childhood in exile in a third world country living in a broken home could not keep him down. You just know that if they attack him, he will rebound. And then there is

Hillary as Mary, the Eternal Wife and Mother, always there for us, always faithful, no matter how she may be attacked or reviled, because she knows what is important---her man and her children--- the American people .

Dennis Kucinich is not capturing the popular imagination, because he is not charismatic, he is not a natural orator. He can not play one of these roles. Americans will never elect an ordinary competent guy to run their country. Sorry to all the people out there who want Americans to be smart and rational like Europeans, but it just ain't that way. We are a country where coaches teach social studies. Is it any wonder that our voters know next to nothing about history or government or that they chose candidates as if this were a Hollywood blockbuster and they were selecting the ending that will ensure the highest gross?

It isn't too late for Al Gore to step in. Now that he won was an Oscar and the Nobel Prize and now that the recount of the votes showed that he won the 2000 election that the SCOTUS stole from him and now that Tim Robbins and Michael Moore have admitted that they were wrong when they said that "Bush equals Gore" and now that we have all seen what liars the press were when they called "Gore a liar" and now that those who voted for Bush have regretted their mistakes, Al Gore can return---- The Return of the King is one of the most popular transformative myths of all times.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Washington Note story that is misrepresented in this DU thread confirms my theory
that women savvy in New Hampshire politics (aka the goddess's faithful supporters) helped to pull this one off. They knew which buttons to push in this state ( "you can trust a woman more than a man to preserve reproductive freedom"--I'll bet Obama had no idea how important reproductive freedom issues were in New Hampshire) and they were uppity women who were not afraid to enforce any rule that was to their benefit. People who are used to seeing women in a subservient or obliging role would not have expected this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x493172

Saw a very interesting PBS special about dirty tricks in South Carolina. Everyone is targeting African-American women. One middle aged woman said she preferred Hillary because she thinks a woman can do things better than a man. In case I haven't mentioned it before, lots of Irish in the Carolinas, lots of matriarchies, lots of women who have been treated wrong for a very long time.

This is going to be too close to call for the immediate future, IMO, and it is going to get ugly.

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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm an Irish/Swedish American living in Wales......
Not quite sure where I fit in on your scale of things but I am a Hillary supporter.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Do you have national health in Wales?
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes...
Every country in the UK has National Health.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-13-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. We to get us some of that.
:dem:
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