NBC bait & switch to exclude Dennis from debate.

[EFerrari]

NBC un-plugs Kucinich from Presidential debate

Re-writes criteria to exclude candidate with ’dissenting’ positions

Less than 44 hours after NBC sent a congratulatory note and an invitation to Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich to participate in the Jan. 15 Democratic Presidential debate in Las Vegas, the network notified the campaign this morning it was changing it announced criteria, rescinding its invitation, and excluding Kucinich from the debate.

NBC Political Director Chuck Todd notified the Kucinich campaign this morning that, although Kucinich had met the qualification criteria publicly announced on December 28, the network was “re-doing” the criteria, excluding Kucinich, and planning to invite only Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and former senator John Edwards.

The criteria announced last month included a fourth-place or better showing in a national poll. The USA/Gallup poll earlier this month showed Kucinich in fourth place among the Democratic contenders.

In an email to the Kucinich campaign at 2:35 p.m. on Wednesday, January 9, Democratic Party debates consultant Jenny Backus wrote:

“Congratulations on another hard-fought contest. Now that New Hampshire is over, we are on to Nevada and our Presidential Debate on Tuesday January 15. This letter serves as an official invitation for your candidate to participate in the Nevada Presidential Debate at Cashman Theatre in downtown Las Vegas. You have met the criteria set by NBC and the Debate.”

Todd notified the Kucinich campaign this morning that the network had decided to change the criteria and limit participation in the debate to only three candidates.

Kucinich is the only remaining Democratic Presidential candidate who: voted against the original Iraq War authorization in 2002 and every war-funding measure since; voted against the so-called Patriot Act; advocates a national, not-for-profit health system that covers all Americans; has called for the repeal of NAFTA and withdrawal from the WTO; and proposes a national back-to-work program (Works Green Administration) patterned after the Depression-era Works Progress Administration (WPA).

The Kucinich campaign, which filed an emergency complaint with the Federal Communications Commission last week because of ABC’s decision to exclude the candidate from a nationally televised debate, is considering legal action to address “the blatant disregard of the public interest in silencing public debate that dissents with the views of NBC, its parent company, GE, and all of the military contractors and their candidate-funding corporate interests. Corporate control of the media is one issue. Corporate media control of the information that is allowed to reach American citizens is much more dangerous, much more sinister, and much more un-American.”

“When ‘big media’ exert their unbridled control over what Americans can see, hear, and read, then the Constitutional power and right of the citizens to vote is being vetoed by multi-billion corporations that want the votes to go their way,” the Kucinich campaign said.

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/nbc-un%11plugs-kucinich-from-presidential-debate/

I don't know about you, but I'm fricken TIRED of Big Media telling me what to think and how to vote. This is an outrage to anyone who values our republic.

[tekisui]

1. I expected some obsure rule to diqualify him. Now they just say,

Fuck you. We only want the darlings.

[Leopolds Ghost]

14. Unfortunately, the Kucinich memo is poorly worded and nowhere suggests that NBC called him extreme.

When NPR (!!!) did so to Mike Gravel DURING the first debate, no one here defended Gravel.

They LAUGHED at a guy I found refreshing and said his words were amusing -- in a hateful retarded sort of way.

The sign of a culture fundamentally oppodsed to the values DU claims to represent.

[EFerrari]

22. Thank you for your support. Please don't spam this thread.

I'm asking nicely.

[Leopolds Ghost]

31. Support for Kucinich is spam if I ask us to be fact-based AND consistent? Fairness & honest argument

a) They have both been excluded from the debates.

b) Gravel has actually been called a kook and excluded for that reason

c) Kucinich has NOT been called a kook, and this press release fails
to provide us with ANY information about NBC's reasoning. Without
being able to attack the reasoning of your opponent, there is nothing.

d) The press release says NBC called Kucinich "dissenting".

It would bean obvious point to attack NBC on, if true.

However, it turns out to be a false lead since such a juicy NBC quote
is mentioned nowhere else in the press release and no leads are provided for it.

e) I'm not going to be made a fool of defending someone on the basis of a false quotation,

even when I support them, it's happened to me before in dealing with people who make
over-zealous statements in an attempt to stir up otherwise-justified anger against their
opponents, "they excluded us because we are the 'dissenting' candidate, that's what they said!" and

f) They did the same thing to Gravel and nobody here complained.

[damntexdem]

35. Gravel should also be in the debates.

[EFerrari]

41. I agree. And I don't need to slam Mike to support Dennis. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. I'm not slamming Dennis. I was revved up to attack NBC on this

And then I saw the press release failed to say anything about Kucinich being specifically excluded for his "dissenting" beleifs,

as the headline of the press release implied.

That leaves me thinking "This sucks. I hate the status quo. But Dennis' press writer implied they had something new from NBC on this. Is he surprised at being excluded now, long after others met the same fate? This is not news. Did Kucinich expect to be treated differently? Would he not be upset if he had been declared one of the sole four "accerptable" candidates (once again in scare quotes, not an actual NBC quote)? I was expecting some fresh outrage here. I want to know what NBC said, so I have something to attack them on!"

[Leopolds Ghost]

45. Thanks. I'm just pointing out there are more than enough real media quotes

If Gravel sent out an unsourced press release quoting NBC as excluding him in writing for his "dissenting" beliefs, I would expect him to back up that statement or else I would shake my head in sadness because a disorganized campaign will exclude *themselves* from the discourse if they claim *proof* of media hostility (which we all know exists) and fail to provide same.

In local politics, those people become known as eccentric gadflies regardless of politics because they break the rules of common discourse in favor of "well, they said something like that, you and I both know it!" Which is not worth putting out a press release, it makes us look like gadflies.

Because then we look like special pleading on the basis of misworded press releases and misattributions when there are MORE than enough actual media statements we could be using.

Mostly about Gravel, they are more afraid to do so with Kucinich. Because he has more support. It's still socially acceptible to openly exclude Gravel, Kucinich and Paul must be humored by the media because they each have a loyal following that cannot otherwise be marginalized for their skin color or beliefs.

Better to get people to acknowledge that the media hates you and expect them to agree, until or unless you have something to hang your hat on such as an actual memo saying "Candidates who //dissent// from the following issues will be excluded."

[dbackjon]

2. This sucks, big time

[EFerrari]

6. It's WRONG. NBC's use of OUR airwaves is dependent on a public trust.

They are VIOLATING that big time.

[fascisthunter]

63. .

[Truth2Tell]

3. American democracy is a fraud. nt

[EFerrari]

15. Maybe. What are we willing to do? n/t

[EFerrari]

4. I just wrote to Keith's producers. I am SO angry.

What is this, an election or a friggin' fire sale?

:nuke:

[dkofos]

5. They can't kill the messenger, but they can kill the message.

I'm surprised they will let Edwards participate.

[EFerrari]

8. Could you please write to Keith's show?

countdown @ msnbc.com

[dkofos]

16. Done

For all the good it will do.

[EFerrari]

24. Thank you, regardless. At least we know that that show has a brain. n/t

[Desertrose]

36. FWIW...done.

Complained for Kucinich & Gravel.

I am so ashamed for our stupid corporate media.

[EFerrari]

43. Thank you! Please tell me if it bounces.

Mine did and I can't find another addy.

argh

[Desertrose]

47. Hasn't so far...maybe it was just busy when you sent yours?

Have you tried again recently?

Can they prevent numerous emails from the same address I wonder?

[EFerrari]

52. Good call! I'll try again. Keith is a star now, after all.

:)

[Telly Savalas]

60. If they're actively trying to kill the messenger, why do they give Olberman a show?

I agree that the last minute switch-a-roo is bullshit, but if one is going to claim that it's done on ideological grounds, then why do they keep Olberman on the air?

[rudy23]

7. The Networks, the Donors, the Voting Machines---Can we get corporations OUT of our elections?!

This is RIDICULOUS!

This is worse than when they excluded Nader from the '00 debates. Now they're barring members of the 2 parties, who QUALIFY by their criteria, and not even bothering to give a reason!

There will be no "change" until we drastically CHANGE the way elections are run in this country.

[EFerrari]

10. Please act UP!

:grr:

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. I see no quote from NBC that refers to candidate with "dissenting" opinions

This outraged announcement is poorly written and will win no-one over who does not understand the issue.

Why is Mike Gravel excluded? No one here on DU mentions him, or includes him in polls.

"Fuck fairness, I agree with what I'm told insofar as Mike Gravel is not acceptable
because he is too far to the left, and should therefore be excluded from future debates.
NPR'scommentator said so immediately after the first debate! I heard it on TV, and
not EVERYTHING on TV is a lie, is it? blogs like DU have to rely on TV for SOME extent,
that's why posts here revolve around whatever Cable News is discussing! Not even
broadcast news qualifies -- Cable news is the filter on which we must rely to see reality."

I haven't heard NPR say that about Kucinich and specifically threaten that he should be
excluded for his "ridiculous" positions, and this poorly worded memo misquotes NBC and
does not provide any hard information on what they really think of Kucinich.

And yet why aren't you defending Gravel, whom DU doesn't take seriously because... all
they heard about him on Cable News?

[EFerrari]

12. You have a habit of turning on people who agree with you.

I hope that works out for you.

[Leopolds Ghost]

21. I'm just pointing out that (a) Kucinich campaign needs to back up statemens on their website

Or they are making us look bad for defending him on a serious, serious issue.

(b) People have not addressed what was done to Gravel. I can't ASSUME that folks here agree Gravel was mistreated because it's demonstrable that no one on DU ever took Gravel seriously. They followed the lead of that NPR guy.

(c) The NPR and MSNBC commentators flat out STATED Gravel was a kook. No one here teed off on that. Nothing similar seems to have been said by
NBC, certainly not in a letter to the Kucinich camp. So this press release needs to be refined and re-worded or it will distract from the real problem here. Kuch can't claim NBC said or did something and then nowhere articulate what they said or did to justify his exclusion.

[Don1]

81. What the heck?!

What the heck are you talking about?

(a) the Kucinich campaign never claimed that NBC said he was being excluded for being dissenting. The quotes are not quoting NBC. There are a lot of other usages of quotes that explain why the quotes are there, like for example to show that the word is an approximation for what is intended and different from common usage. Example from Wiki: In the fifteenth century, we “knew” that the Sun’s revolution divided day from night.

(b) Yeah, Gravel was mistreated. People here signed Gravel's petition, too, like me. But the Gravel and Kucinich issues are different and this is a thread about Kucinich.

(c) Every Kucinich thread doesn't have to mention Gravel. The fact is that both in the case of the Iowa debates and the case of NBC, the debate sponsors were being logically inconsistent. In Iowa, the claim was that he had no campaign office in Iowa, but he did. It was just a home office. Meanwhile, Alan Keyes, was allowed in the debates who had no campaign office at all in the state. Gravel did not have a campaign office in Iowa. In the case of NBC, they said they would allow the top four candidates into the debates. Then, they changed it around to the top three. Gravel wasn't in the top 4.

[Individualist]

11. Utterly disgusting but not surprising

Damn NBC!

[EFerrari]

13. After the last 8 years, can we be surprised any more?

If you could drop a line to Keith's show, that would be great. For Dennis and Mike and anyone who is being excluded from our DEMOCRATIC debate. countdown @ msnbc.com

[Individualist]

17. I'll do that right now

:)

[EFerrari]

26. Thank you so much!

:hi:

[helderheid]

18. I'm sick and tired of it too.

[Radical Activist]

19. There's something missing here.

What reason exactly did NBC give for excluding Dennis?

[EFerrari]

20. I gave you all the info I have in the OP. When there's a break

in the action, I'll go fish.

[Radical Activist]

28. I followed the link. It doesn't say,

It rails against NBC but doesn't say what NBC's own stated rationale was. The omission of information is suspicious.

[EFerrari]

30. Suspicious? LOL!

Because the media is usually so generous to the second tier? Or?

[Radical Activist]

33. For example

Dennis complaining about being excluded from Iowa debates without informing people that he didn't have any office or any staff in Iowa. which was the real reason he was kept out. Maybe part of the story was left out because its embarrassing to Dennis?

[EFerrari]

40. What rule is too arbitrary for you to exclude a candidate?

Dennis didn't pour millions of dollars into Iowa. That's true.

I guess we should only let millionaires who will pump big money into the media run for office. :shrug:

/typin'

[Pastiche423]

65. To focus the debate on realistic candidates...

NBC had invited the long-shot candidate on Jan. 9 but rescinded its decision Friday morning, when NBC Political Director Chuck Todd informed the Kucinich camp that the network was “redoing” its participation criteria, according to the campaign.

NBC changed its criteria to focus the debate on the three candidates with a realistic shot of winning the nomination - Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), Barack Obama (Ill.) and former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.).

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/nbc-disinvites-kucinich-from-debate-2008-01-11.html

Another pic of the a-hole:

[judaspriestess]

23. what bullshit

and so damn wrong.

[EFerrari]

27. And they expect us to just sit back and think of England. n/t

[judaspriestess]

34. and yet all six repuke candidates are invited to the debates

including dingbat fred thompson to say the least. But on the Dem side, it's already been decided its a two man/woman race.

:grr:

[TechBear_Seattle]

25. Is anyone really surprised by this?

The media did this exact same thing to John Anderson and Ross Perot: as soon as a "minority" candidate meets the criteria to participate in debates, the criteria is changed expressly to prevent that participation.

SSDD.

[EFerrari]

29. Exactly. n/t

[damntexdem]

32. Boycott debates that exclude Dennis.

Don't contribute to campaigns of those who appear in debates that exclude Kucinich.

[Desertrose]

37. No problem. Nothing to watch w/o Dennis.

The other three say the same old same old...

[EFerrari]

38. Great. I'm getting an error message for the Countdown email address.

I can't find another one at their site. Does anyone have a good one?

[babylonsister]

49. Go through Dan Abrams:

[e-mail]

KO used to have his own, but that hasn't worked (for me) in awhile.

[EFerrari]

55. For me, either. But, the countdown@ msnbc.com addy may have

just been busy. I'm going to try again. If that doesn't work, I will try Dan's. Thanks.

[MadHound]

39. Yep, just can't let the one candidate on the air

Who has been right on virtually all the issues. Lord knows, he might try something like calling for impeachment repeatedly, or some such stunt:eyes:

Nooo, the media and corporations don't choose our candidates, not at all:sarcasm:

[orleans]

42. did chuck todd make this decision? who decided to change the

rules for qualifying?

goddamnit!

he's probably pissed off because didn't he explain how there is no reason to bother with a recount or some such shit? and now dennis wants a recount. well, *this* will show kucinich!

[EFerrari]

44. Here is a general "letters" email address:

letters@msnbc. com

(I put in a space so we don't tie up DU bandwidth.)

[countryjake]

48. Should we complain to them, directly?

NBC News contact form



Here are some email addies for MSNBC:


GeneralComments@ feedback.msnbc.com


viewerservices@ msnbc.com



(oops, space added after the "at" to save bandwidth)


Ha, you beat me to it! Okay, these are different ones from yours.

[EFerrari]

53. That would be the first time I beat you at anything.

lol

Thanks! :)

[countryjake]

57. Hey, the scumbucket's addie in here... (Never mind, it bounced)

Don't know if it will still work, he's probably shut it down by now. Worth the try tho.

Try to be civil, now.



Chuck Todd's email:


ctodd@ nationaljournal.com


Added a space to save bandwidth, after the "at"

[kster]

50. Edwards, Hillary, Obama, I need to see is some "CHANGE"

will you stand up for Kucinich, this time? After all he is one of our own. :grr:

[Kucinich4America]

51. WHO THE FUCK DOES THIS CHUCK TODD PIECE OF SHIT THINK HE IS??

This is the third time this week that worthless DLC bastard has pissed me off. The first one was Dean bashing. Second was some ridiculous statement about how Edwards should drop out.

LET DENNIS SPEAK, YOU FUCKING COWARD. :grr:

[EFerrari]

54. Slime!

:grr:

[SOS]

79. He does whatever the General Electric CEO tells him to do.

The whole damn thing is a Wall Street side show.

[Eric J in MN]

56. Chuck Todd must be a slimy person to change the rules in the middle like that.

Here is Chuck Todd's photo, so that if you see him on TV, you can judge him the context of his actions:

[JAbuchan08]

58. It certainly wouldn't make sense to have dissenting opinions

at a debate.

[EFerrari]

59. No, that would be wrong.

:)

[EFerrari]

61. kick

[fascisthunter]

62. Corporate America Deciding Who Get's Air-Time

pretty disgusting to see fellow dems agreeing with this. Shows how far to the right many in this party have gone.

[EFerrari]

66. It's hard to live in a corrupt culture and not get tainted. n/t

[fascisthunter]

68. true, but it needs to be pointed out

they may not even realize it themselves.

[EFerrari]

75. That's right. Before 2000, I never even thought about election integrity.

You're right, of course.

[OzarkDem]

64. Corporate news media is baring their teeth

they wanted to have this election sewn up before the end of the primaries.

Their strategy:

Pit two Dem candidates against each other, neither of whom will be easily elected and both of whom will be willing to give Corporate America what they want in exchange for not smearing them and giving them GOP -style news coverage during the General.

Voila! By the end of the primary, the corporate-chosen Dem candidate will be bought and paid for and ready to elect.

Two people are causing them problems - John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich - both of whom are bringing up topics that Corporate America doesn't want discussed.

[EFerrari]

67. Let's hear it for our prickly Democrats.

:toast:

[Glimmer of Hope]

69. This is bullshit. Have any of the Republican candidates been excluded from any

debates?

[countryjake]

70. They had all six of them at the debate Thurs. night on FoxNews...

I don't know if any others have excluded Republicans...I think they tried to gag Ron Paul up in New Hampshire, but his party insisted that he be included in that debate.

[stimbox]

72. WTF is wrong with the DNC? Why don't they defend our candidates?

The RNC does for theirs.

I think nasty emails and calls should be directed to the DNC too.

Contact page:
http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contactissues

Main Phone Number:
202-863-8000

[countryjake]

73. Here's the short answer...

The Caucus
The New York Times Politics Blog

D.L.C. Leaders Cut Edwards Out
By Ariel Alexovich - January 11, 2008

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/dlc-leaders-cut-edwards-out/

~snips~

As would be expected, the two gentlemen from the Democratic Leadership Council on a conference call today told reporters they’re very confident in their party’s chances of reclaiming the White House, they’re happy that substantive issues are being discussed…

And then Al From, the D.L.C. founder, said he was “very happy about the two candidates” Americans are considering.

Only two candidates?

Our ears perked up as we listened on.

“This is a really hard choice, really, for Democratic voters because they like both candidates,” said Mr. From. “For me, I don’t see that going to be a problem. I think in the end, Senator Obama’s appeal that he’s made very firmly and directly to independent voters, and Senator Clinton’s appeal to the forgotten middle class are going to add up to a very smashing Democratic majority in the fall.”

“This is not uncommon in primaries to see this kind of passionate support for one’s candidate,” added Harold Ford Jr., the D.L.C. chairman and a former Tennessee congressman...


In his conclusion, Mr. From re-emphasized his talking points and made one more mention of this now being a race between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama.
"I mean, this is a different party. And that all bodes well. So we’re excited about what’s going on in these early primaries and we look forward to having our hand in this race as it goes forward and helping our candidate, whether it be Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, march to a very strong victory this fall."




Chamber of Commerce Vows to Punish Anti-Business Candidates
The group indicates it will spend in excess of the approximately $60 million it put out in the last presidential cycle.

By Tom Hamburger, Staff Writer Los Angeles Times
January 8, 2008

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-chamber8jan08,1,5346679.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

~snip~

WASHINGTON -- Alarmed at the increasingly populist tone of the 2008 political campaign, the president of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is set to issue a fiery promise to spend millions of dollars to defeat candidates deemed to be anti-business.

"We plan to build a grass-roots business organization so strong that when it bites you in the butt, you bleed," chamber President Tom Donohue said.

The warning from the nation's largest trade association came against a background of mounting popular concern over the condition of the economy. A weak record of job creation, the sub-prime mortgage crisis, declining home values and other problems have all helped make the economy a major campaign issue.

[EFerrari]

76. The Republican, former RNC chair, who is now heading up

the Commission on Presidential Debates wondered out loud why all Democratic candidates other that the front two are still hanging on. This was Wednesday. I saw a rerun this morning on CSPAN.

[Kucinich4America]

71. They want to exclude Ron Paul

But they can't because he's getting more votes than 9u11iani, and they wouldn't dare keep Rudy out.

[Swamp Rat]

74. k&r

[EFerrari]

77. Thank you, Swampy. I feel more manipulated every day.

:grr:

[Kurovski]

78. K&R. (nt)

[flvegan]

80. K&R.