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Dear Kucinich supporters: not everyone who supports someone else is stupid, hypocrtical or centrist

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:53 PM
Original message
Dear Kucinich supporters: not everyone who supports someone else is stupid, hypocrtical or centrist
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 10:56 PM by Political Heretic
Just because I agree with Dennis on many points does not mean I feel he would be the best person to be in the role of President.

Jimmy Carter was a great man and an awful President. Or another example, my father holds all the ideas Dennis and I do too -- that doesn't mean I would vote for him to sever in the role of President of the United States, and that doesn't mean he would make a good president if elected. Instead I think that his gifts, personality and experience would serve our country best in certain other roles. Heck, I am not the right person for President of the United States, and I'm the most radical guy I know! :) I know that I can serve those ideals and the people better in other ways.


It's time that Dennis supporters start RESPECTING people who have consciously and thoughtfully supported someone else for President, and admit to the fact that not everyone who does not choose "their guy" is a hypocrite. I think Dennis has the right view points. I don't think he's the best or most qualified person to fill the role of president of the united states. I may be wrong in my opinion, and others may certainly disagree with me, but I am not stupid, uninformed, or hypocritical for my opinion and I'm most certainly entitled to it.

Other people have given thoughtful, intelligent explanations for supporting someone else if you ever bother to listen, rather than pretending that anyone who doesn't support Kucinich for President isn't a "true" liberal, democrat, progressive or whatever else.

For instance, Spike89 wrote:

A president can inspire and cajole, even try and intimidate, but essentially they have no legislative power other than to accept or deny what congress sends to them. Dennis is a maverick, or if you prefer, an ideologue. Although he says lots of things I agree with, he does so as a scold and without regard for practicality--two things guaranteed to ensure that his ideas as president would not get implemented.

For instance, I agree that we need single-payer government run health care. We also need to find a way to get there that isn't as disruptive and potentially counterproductive as a sudden switch would be. I hate the health insurance industry, but I do understand that millions of good people are working in and for that industry and unless you have a transition plan, you're risking an awful lot of people's security. I don't see DK agreeing that it must be implemented in steps or in compromised fashion.


I don't believe that an ideologue is the best person in the role of President, though I think they have many important - in fact critical - roles to fill. I believe in what I call practical idealism that blends ideological conviction with a frank, stark, grounded understanding of the current world, system and context in which we operate.

I don't support Kucinich for president because being president is about more than passing the right litmus test of ideas, because I believe he would better serve the goal of real change in this country in other ways, and because I believe that another candidate best reflects the practical idealism and leadership characteristics that I believe make him the bets fit for President (and possibly not as good of a fit as Dennis would be in other roles).

You don't have to agree with me! I might be wrong. And I certainly respect Kucinich supporters. But please stop acting like anyone who doesn't support your candidate is a moron.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. respect?...
do you know what that means?
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Um... yes I do. It means giving room for people who hold different opinions than yours and.....
...not insulting them or pretending that they are stupid simply for disagreeing with you.

It means, giving room for more than one point of view. And it means not attacking and harassing someone else for disagreeing with you - note I haven't done that here.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Low self-esteem day?
Give this guy a try!

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Every day is a low self-esteem day.
Doesn't make my point any less correct.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Maybe you should follow your heart, not your head.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I am.
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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Carter was not an "awful president"
That's right-wing spin dating back to Reagan, which has sadly been elevated to the status of accepted fact. But Carter showed a lot of leadership during a difficult time, and most of his roadblocks were created by others.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. My description of Carter as awful, is based on left - not right - criticism.
See for reference, the works of Noam Chomsky and William Blum.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Something that was needed to be said...well written...I just don't think those that fit the profile
you are addressing will loosen up all that much par attack mode.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is not in response to recount news either. I fully, fully support DK on that.
WE MUST REQUEST RECOUNTS IN EVERY ELECTION WHERE THERE ARE UNACCOUNTABLE VOTING MACHINES AND WHERE THE PROCESS IS NOT TRANSPARENT TO THE PEOPLE

Do I think the results in NH are fixed? NO.

Does Dennis think a recount will change his results? NO HE DOES NOT.

But we just had a vote where we have no way to VERIFY the accuracy of the vote count!

Why would ANYONE want that???????
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. I am a Kucinich supporter & do not accuse others of being stupid, hypocritical, or centrists.
Good thing I have thick skin, or I might find this broad statement of yours offensive.

Please don't paint everyone with such a broad brush.

This post is an example of why many long time DUer's are choosing to leave: uncalled-for, rude, generalized statements such as this.

Please think b/4 you post.:think:
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Oh please.
I didn't realize I had to explicitly state the obvious: that if the statements don't apply to you, then you don't need to worry about them.

You're being slightly disingenuous, I'm afraid. You don't have to look far to find plenty of concrete examples of DK supports doing exactly what I just described. Just look.

Of course not all people are any one way. That doesn't mean there isn't a clear and noticeable pattern among some that's worth noting.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Well, at least you said please.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. There are obnoxious individuals in every camp.
It's the 5% that gets 95% of the attention phenomenon. It goes for every other candidate as well.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. wtf?
i mean it. :wtf: are you talking about?

dp
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Which part, in particular, of what I said was confusing for you?
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. um...
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 11:44 PM by dweller
"Just because I agree with Dennis on many points does not mean I feel he would be the best person to be in the role of President.
Jimmy Carter was a great man and an awful President."

one of these things has nothing to do with the other.
dp

oh, i get it. You're a hit and run slam poster with no facts, no point, and a huge ego driven point of view.
got it.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Actually, you're leaving a few things out.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:54 AM by Political Heretic
I also said:

"Or another example, my father holds all the ideas Dennis and I do too -- that doesn't mean I would vote for him to sever in the role of President of the United States, and that doesn't mean he would make a good president if elected. Instead I think that his gifts, personality and experience would serve our country best in certain other roles."

And I also said:

"Heck, I am not the right person for President of the United States, and I'm the most radical guy I know! :) I know that I can serve those ideals and the people better in other ways."

My point being that ideological viewpoint is not the only test for the qualification of a candidate.

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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. and you leave nothing out
I also said:
"Or another example, my father holds all the ideas Dennis and I do too -- that doesn't mean I would vote for him to sever in the role of President of the United States, and that doesn't mean he would make a good president if elected. Instead I think that his gifts, personality and experience would serve our country best in certain other roles."
And I also said:
"Heck, I am not the right person for President of the United States, and I'm the most radical guy I know! :) I know that I can serve those ideals and the people better in other ways."
My point being that ideological viewpoint is not the only test for the qualification of a candidate.

and my point is it's not up to you or your daddy. I didn't make through your first 2 sentences to only realize you are ego driven, shallow and believe you know what is the best for anyone (other than you).

You've said little about Dennis, and too much about yourself. I'm not voting for you.
dp
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Huh?
I don't understand your sentences. :(

Why does it have to be "ego" or "shallow" -- why can't we just disagree? What is with the need to insult everyone else who sees something differently?

Sometimes a disagreement or a different perspective doesn't always mean one person has character flaws and the other person doesn't. Sometimes it just means two good people see it different.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Request from this Kucinich supporter who also supports Edwards
and who has much respect for the other Democratic candidates (including the 'second tier' ones):

Please remember that not every supporter of *any* candidate is 'cut from the same mold' as the ones you object to :(
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Welcome to DU!
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:18 AM by Lisa0825
You know, I think the poster does realize it is not *all* of Kucinich's supporters who make some of us feel this way. I would guess that the OP is directing the post at those who have earned it, and not those who are respectful of others. I can relate to this on various levels. I also respect Kucinich's POVs but have my doubts about him as President. In addition, I was a "Deaniac" and while I tried to be respectful of others, we had so many people in the Dean camp who were new and/or extremely passionate that a lot of people got turned off by the Dean followers.

Thank you for being here, for being a supporter of great ideals, and for being respectful of those with different opinions.

:pals:
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Right. I do remember that. :)
:hi:
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. You are wrong. n/t

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. lol, ok then.
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 04:57 AM by Political Heretic
So everyone who doesn't support Kucinich for President is a moron, centrist, or hypocrite. Good to know you think so little of the majority of DU, the Democratic Party, and Americans in general, then.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. "Good to know you think so little of the majority of DU, the Democratic Party... blah blah blah!"
:dunce:


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elaineb Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
26. Dear non-Kucinich supporter: not everyone who supports Kucinich fits your description
You said in one of your replies on this thread something to the effect that "if the description doesn't fit, then don't wear it", but the fact is it would have been so easy to have not generalized by saying "It's time that (some) Dennis supporters start RESPECTING people who have consciously and thoughtfully supported someone else for President...". It's not that hard to add one extra word when you have a problem with more than one poster on DU.

I don't fit your description at all, and I'm a Kucinich supporter. I totally respect the opinions of those who support any of the other candidates, as long as they are basing their support of said candidate on an agreement with their positions on issues and are honest about why they support them. However, I do think there are lots of personality cultists on DU right now who are supporting a candidate for rather superficial reasons (not that they can admit that to themselves); there are others who make ridiculously disdainful statements about Kucinich on thread after thread but never explain their seemingly pathological need to ridicule him to the extent they do (do you ever notice any of those threads?); and there are others who, I suppose because centrists seem to be in a minority on DU, love to make negative statements about Kucinich or some of the other left-of-center candidates because they are ashamed to "own" their centrist opinions in a public forum. I say if you're a centrist, or just disagree with a few of the more "traditional" Democratic viewpoints (on gun control, the death penalty, gay rights, whatever), then effin' stand up for your opinions, no matter what anybody on DU may say to you. I respect that kind of person, no matter whether we disagree on the issues or not. What I don't respect are those who pretend they're pretty much with the progressive majority here by not stating where they differ from Kucinich on the issues, while hurling smears toward one of the best Democratic fighters we have in Congress right now. Keep your eyes open in the future for those kind of threads, and maybe it will make you realize that DU has its share of obnoxious blowhards amongst ALL of the candidate's supporters, not just a few of Kucinich's.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. Here here!
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 07:12 PM by janesez
And no, not all Kucinich supporters on DU are like this. But a LOT of them are.
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