Fundie right wing e-mail received from a relative and my response

[mnhtnbb]

This came from my Republican sister-in-law. Normally, I ignore her proselytizing, but I was so pissed
at the obvious distortions in this one, I fired off a 'reply all' response.

Here's the e-mail:

Begin forwarded message:


>
>
> America Needs A Leader Like This!
> Prime Minister John Howard - Australia
>
> Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
>
> Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'
>
> 'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
>
> 'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'
>
> 'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
>
> 'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
>
> 'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
>
> 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
>
> Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
>


Here's my reply:

The e-mail which purports to quote Austalia's Prime Minister John Howard telling Australian Muslims to basically "love it or leave" has seriously altered the truth of what was actually said by several Australian officials in the wake of the July 2005 London tube bombings. In fact, Treasurer Peter Costello, who was viewed as heir apparent to Prime Minister John Howard, was quoted as suggesting that if Sharia Muslims wished to live in a theocratic state, not a secular state, such as Australia, with its parliamentary law, independent courts, and democracy, that perhaps they should find a country which is organized around Sharia law or a theocratic state, not Australia.

Prime Minister John Howard did not suggest Australia was a nation intent on displaying Christian principles headed by a Christian God; he was intent on promoting the teaching within Islamic schools the Australian values of parliamentary law, independent courts, and democracy which characterize the secular state of Australia under its Constitution. For a full discussion of the facts and historical accuracy, see http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

It might be prudent to inform oneself before spreading very seriously altered stories that seek to promote the views of the right-wing fundamentalist Christian community of the U.S. that routinely attempts to distort the Constitution of the United States.


End of my reply.

[mnhtnbb]

1. What, no comment?

[Rincewind]

2. comment

Does your sister-in-law know that Mr. Howard had his pasty white butt kicked out of office? The right wing loves to recycle years old lies, half-truths and distortions.

[mnhtnbb]

4. Probably not. Keeping up with the news is not one of her priorities.

[rAVES]

3. Ex Prime minister, and well rebutted. eom

[mnhtnbb]

6. Thanks for the reminder. I just sent a PS to everyone. See below

PS: I neglected to mention that John Howard is no longer Prime Minister of Australia. He was recently booted out of office.


Prime Minister of Australia 1996-2007

* /Prime Minister John Howard, Australian Prime Minister from 1996
to 2007, lost his position when the Australian Labor Party swept
into power in the federal elections of November 24, 2007. He was
succeeded by Australian Labor Party Leader Kevin Rudd
<http://goaustralia.about.com/od/knowthepeople/a/kevinrudd.htm>
who was sworn in as Australia's 26th Prime Minister
<http://goaustralia.about.com/od/australianewzealand/f/primeminister.htm>
on December 3, 2007. /
* /In his own New South Wales electorate of Bennelong, John Howard
lost his seat to Australian Labor Party candidate and former
Australian Broadcasting Corporation journalist Maxine McKew. It
was the first time since 1929 that a sitting Prime Minister lost
in his own electorate./

http://goaustralia.about.com/od/knowthepeople/a/johnhoward.htm

[uppityperson]

5. Good reply. Succinct, snopes, non-insulting. Good job. eom

[mnhtnbb]

7. I hit a nerve! Just got this e-mail from someone on the

list my sister-in-law had sent the e-mail to:

If you do not know me, then please do not send me emails containing your personal opinions about the "right wing fundamentalist Christian community".

I will ignore the person, but I'm tempted to ask them just who they think altered the facts
of that story!

I deliberately replied to all, because I doubt my sister-in-law would have sent my piece on to everyone.
She's not the type of person to acknowledg her own mistakes, let alone correct them.

[Maat]

8. I did the same thing - hitting 'reply all' -

in a similar situation.

That's why this Southern Californian is not welcome in a certain small town in Oklahoma. My hubby got a telephone call the next day, with a certain relative gasping and choking at the horror of the mass exposure of her circle to progressive views. My hubby had to explain to certain relatives what 'reply all' was, and the ramifications of sending dumb emails to a series of people; he also explained that, if certain people wanted to routinely exchange dumb emails, then there would be certain risks, particularly if the emails ended up in a more informed person's box.

HeeHee.

:rofl:

Great reply.

[mnhtnbb]

14. I have repeatedly suggested my sister-in-law check Snopes before

she sends these e-mails on (which she gets from her older sister in Oregon). And I'd always sent
the info just back to her. This one boiled me over though; it's so full of half-truths, lies, and distortions and so obviously made up by the right wing fundies that I decided to call her and her e-mail list out on it. Besides, my husband and sons were on the list, too.

If she gives me any crap about it, I'm going to throw it right back at her. I'm fed up with people who should know better enabling this kind of shit.

Good for your hubby!

edited for spelling

[Maat]

37. Take care! (n/t)

[mnhtnbb]

33. Update: I decided to send a reply to this person. After I slept on it, I couldn't resist.

"The appropriate action you should have taken would have been to send your opinion only to the person who sent you the email in the first place, not everyone on that person's list. "

If you do not know me, please do not expect me to accept your opinion of what I *should* do when responding to e-mails that are full of lies, distortions, and half-truths.

As it turns out, Snopes has another reference that validates much of the content that was attributed to former Prime Minister John Howard was in fact lifted from
material written by an American USAF veteran. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/american.htm

By the way, our connection is that the e-mail originated from my sister-in-law, xxxxx xxxxxx. She'll vouch for my liberal credentials!

Signed with my name.

[WolverineDG]

36. I've done the "reply all" thing too

sometimes, recipients block my email address. One time, though, I got a really really rude response, so I said "perhaps you should speak to xxxx about just what 'blind cc:' means." Later this same person called me "ignorant" & the person who sent the email in the first place (a cousin) backed him up. :grr: I've blocked both of those assholes now, so my inbox is remarkably free of this kind of stuff.

dg

[mnhtnbb]

39. UPDATE 2: No appreciation for the humor I tried to inject. Instead

I got this reponse:

"I really don't care, so please do not send any emails to this address. What you are doing is rude."

To which I replied: I can tell you don't care. No appreciation for my attempt to inject a little humor. See, I don't consider polite confrontation rude, but I promise, no more e-mails.

Hope you find some joy in your life today.

Signed.

[WritersBlock]

9. Ya gotta be careful telling these people the truth. I got a similar email a few weeks back...

... from a genealogy contact; one of those who assume that since you've got a half-interest in a shared ancestor a hundred years in the past, you also share all religious and political views with that person.

This one was about a postage stamp commemorating Eid. The email started off with the title "This is an insult to all Americans" or something like that. It went on to blame Muslims for just about every hostile act against US citizens & interests since Lockerbie.

It just hit a nerve with me. I usually just delete this sort of tripe, but on that particular day, I hit "reply all" and let rip. Basically, I said that this sort of email only fuels the fires of fear and hatred that keep Bush, Cheney, and Halliburton's never-ending war going, and their pension funds fat.

I got the usual "I'll pray for you, you anti-American pinko commie hippie traitor" sort of responses, as expected, which didn't bother me, because it meant they at least read my response.

But what floored me was the reaction of the person who sent the email. She said she only sent it because she thought it was such a pretty stamp, and that people could make up their own minds about it. Then she freaked out because I'd responded to everyone on her "private" email list (can we say BCC? Apparently not ;)

A couple of days later, I got an email saying this person had become so distraught over what happened that she took a gun and shot herself through the mouth, and that myself and another person who responded favorably to my email were being investigated for hiring a hit man (for an alleged suicide...)

The emails stopped after I responded with a message suggested by a dear friend from school who's now an attorney.

And lo and behold, would you believe it, a miracle occurred a couple of weeks later!! This person, who supposedly had only recently been driven to a hit-man-induced suicide by my evil demented liberal outlook, suddenly began appearing on genealogy sites again. Hallelujah! She was risen!

What really backfired on her how the other person who responded favorably to my email has now become a good friend. We're even going to meet up next summer when I'm back in the States for a visit.

I would thank the woman who sent the email, but I can't, because she's dead. No wait, she's alive! Ah, the hell with her. Living well is the best revenge.

[treestar]

12. Had a similar experience

RW relative sent email lying about Obama's church. I hit reply all and sent a response. Got one positive response from the crowd. Relative sent an email saying she didn't know what I was talking about, she might even vote for Obama, because she can't stand Hillary (without giving any reasons for why she couldnt' stand Hillary). Now I'm worried she is registerting as a Democrat to hack the primary! She'd never vote for a Democrat, and she sent two emails insulting Obama, why would she vote for him? It must be the general mindlessness of rightwhiners.

[mnhtnbb]

16. rightwhiners. LOL. Hadn't seen that one before.

[LibertyLover]

23. I got the similar e-mail about Obama from a "friend"

This one was about how he was really a Moslem and a Moslem couldn't be a good American citizen. The nice thing was that most of the people she sent it to immediately "replied all" with the Snopes link that debunked it. One reminded us that had it been 40 years earlier, a similar e-mail could have been sent out about JFK and Catholics. Of course there has to be one idiot in the bunch, so one spamee missed totally what the point of the analogy to JFK was about and replied all with a post that had the crap about Obama's church in it and a demand for an apology from the JFK poster for calling him a bad citizen since he was Catholic. I'm afraid that I couldn't resist at that point. So I explained to the irate spamee that he had misunderstood the point of the JFK post, and mentioned the long history of anti-Catholicism in the US, especially the Know Nothings from the 19th century. A friend (real one this time) who had been copied on the original e-mail sent me a private e-mail thanking me for bringing history into the mix. The very next e-mail we got was from the original e-mail sender's son thanking everyone for an interesting debate and asking that no more e-mails be sent about it. It was an amusing two days.

[mnhtnbb]

24. I'm watching my e-mail to see what my sister-in-law's response is.

I'll bet the person on her list who objected to my 'reply all' will have sent her an e-mail complaining, too.
She'll probably tell her 'oh, that's my librul sister-in-law.'

[LibertyLover]

30. As a friend of mine said

when I asked whatever was X thinking when she sent out that e-mail, "She wasn't thinking. She passes on whatever crap the Republicans tell her to pass on."

[mnhtnbb]

41. I knew it! Here's my sister-in-law's response :

I didn't mean the forward to be a detailed history lesson, but just a "kudos" to the general notion that if one doesn't like, and won't respect (like extremist muslims), a free-to-leave country, or any aspect of it, then one should certainly feel free to leave!

My response to her: No chuckle as I got another e-mail from your friend calling me rude. See, I don't consider polite confrontation rude. I'm interested in what other people think and say, but I'm a stickler for the truth. Using lies, distortions, and half truths to support the recycled Vietnam era 'love it or leave it' attitude doesn't appeal to me. With that attitude,
the Colonies never would have become the United States. Most of the people in the country during the American Revolution sat on the sidelines and didn't involve themselves in forging a new country that was NOT created by Christians, but mostly Deists, or Unitarians. http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/ffnc/

I doubt that she'll appreciate the history lesson, since she clearly isn't interested in history
per her first sentence.

I suspect she won't send me any more of this shit, though. Maybe the fact that I spoke up will encourage others to do the same to her.

[momster]

20. I Use Eid Stamps on my Christmas Cards

Freaks out a few people but what the heck...they're prettier than the secular stamps and more elegant than the Christian choice.

As for the dead/alive lady, don't you know that Jesus brings people back from the dead all the time? Obviously a miracle occurred -- :sarcasm:

[mnhtnbb]

25. Good grief. What a story.

[WritersBlock]

46. Every word true. I'm tellin ya, these people are not sane. n/t

[Fierce]

31. Seriously, this is one of the best stories I've seen on DU.

A fake suicide report over an Eid stamp? What is WRONG with people?

[Berry Cool]

10. Something about this rang a bell, so I went back to Snopes.

Sure enough, it's just an "Australianized" version of this:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/american.htm

In other words, the bigoted claptrap was written by an AMERICAN, an Air Force veteran, not spoken by an Australian:

I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying about whether or not we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on September 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans...

...This culture, called the "American Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom...

...We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society — learn our language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan — it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and this is clearly documented...

...If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture...

...The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.

Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, the right to leave.

In other words: Same old shit, different package! They just figured maybe it would sound better coming out of the mouth of an "Australian Prime Minister" than some bigot in Georgia!

[mnhtnbb]

17. That's great. Thanks for posting.

[treestar]

11. Well stated! May I use it when my right wing nutjob relatives

inevitably send me this email?

[mnhtnbb]

18. Be my guest!

[and-justice-for-all]

13. Fuck me these junk emails really make it around...

I got that crap in November from the fundi here at work. I read 2 or 3 sentences and deleted it, GARBAGE it is. That's why Mr. howard is no longer the Prime Minister.

[mnhtnbb]

15. This a.m I sent the e-mail I received on to Snopes for updating their data.

[NewJeffCT]

19. great response - thanks for responding, too

Too often this BS goes unanswered. If more people stood up like you, half of this shit wouldn't be near conventional wisdom...

[momster]

21. We Try

But 'lies run around the world before truth can get his boots on.' They believe it because they want to believe it, because it chimes with what they already believe, and challenges no part of them to rise to a better self.

[mnhtnbb]

22. The problem is so many people have given up on their critical thinking skills.

How in the world anyone could think the Prime Minister of Australia would say this stuff (even if it was John Howard) suggests suspension of critical thinking. I mean, it just set alarm bells off in my head and it's really hard to imagine how anyone could be so sheltered they don't stop for a minute to question whether this could be true.

[mwb970]

26. Most people never had "critical thinking skills".

We get spoiled by reading boards like this, which are mostly populated by progressive, well-informed citizens. The asinine e-mails described in this thread and elsewhere are sent from (and to) lost, deluded right-wing zealots who are completely unable to think for themselves. This shows up in their mindless parrotting of everything Fox Noise or Limpballs squeezed out that day. Trying to "set them straight" is an exercise in futility. They are happy in their fools' paradise and have no interest in the actual truth about anything.

Ever wondered why there are no "left-wing wacko" e-mails filled with lies ricocheting around the Internet? All the craziness is on one side. That's got to tell you something.

[Gold Metal Flake]

27. That was nice. I usually put "you fucking liar" in mine.

Well written, calm, and informative.

Have you noticed that the RW email machine has started putting in "this was confirmed by Snopes" in their propaganda pieces? No links, of course. It just proves the venality of the conservative disinformation structure. I have no doubt but that these emails are professionally prepared.

[Bigmack]

28. When I got one of the "Who is Barak Obama?" emails...

...complete with phoney Snopes.com verification, I hit "Reply All" and sent this:
- - - - -
" This has been going around for months now, and it is a LIE! Not a mistake, a LIE!

In fact they quote Snopes.com - a debunking site - and say that Snopes says it's true.
In fact the Snopes.com entry -
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
specifically shows the claims about Obama are false.
The liars who made up this lie hope the reader is too stupid to check out the Snopes.com entry for themselves.

Next I suppose we'll get an email that says Hilary bathes in babies' blood and Edwards is a Satanist!

Ever wonder why there are none of these blast emailings that attack Republicans?
- - - -
....Crickets....

[momster]

32. Last Time I Looked

the Snopes site has the false information at the top and the refutation at the bottom...this means, of course, that the righties checking Snopes aren't bright enough to scroll down to read the whole thing.

[mnhtnbb]

34. Yeah, I noticed that.

[Bigmack]

38. But... big red "False".....

at the top. Like I said in my answer to the email... not a mistake...A LIE!

[LeftishBrit]

29. This is a revolting e-mail...

and also so America-centric that (even without the Snopes confirmation) I would have assumed that no Australian Prime Minister, even a Bush-poodle and anti-immigrant bigot like Howard, could have said this. For one thing, though a majority of Australians *are* self-identified Christians, it's not a huge majority: 64% in 2006. Just under 19% explicitly identified themselves in 2006 as having no religion, and I doubt that a politician facing a tough fight for re-election would wish to alienate 19% of the electorate at one blow!

Moreover, the Australians do not have a 'pledge' in exactly the same sense as Americans. They do have a 'pledge of commitment' which immigrants are required to make on becoming naturalized citizens; but I don't think that it's something that (e.g.) children are expected to say routinely in school. According to the entry in Wikipedia:

'In 1994 the Oath was replaced with a Pledge of Commitment to Australia:

From this time forward, under God,
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.

All new citizens have the choice of making the pledge with or without the words 'under God''.

(Note last sentence!)

[mnhtnbb]

35. Hey, great info, Leftish Brit, but way beyond common knowledge

for these right-wing types. I'll wager that many progressive US citizens aren't aware of this info.
You're exactly right that most of our population is extremely America-centric.

After living in the state of Nebraska for 6 years I was sure that the state motto was: Ignorant and proud of it!

[Swamp Rat]

40. Snopes is our friend

:applause:

I've done this with my aunt. She eventually stopped sending me crappy fundie emails.

[mnhtnbb]

42. Where'd you get that picture of my sister-in-law, Swamp Rat?

:hi:

[mreilly]

43. I think this fecal matter is all produced by the same a**hole

Good for you for calling out this BS. Everyone who receives crap like this in their INBOX should let it be known that it's not welcome and won't be tolerated. All too many ignorant people mindlessly forward this garbage on just like they pass along the "Microsoft will pay you $50 every time you forward this" nonsense.

Over the years I've seen dozens of these idiotic fundie emails and they all seem to be written by the same shrill, whiny oh-so-self-righteous asshole. Must be some loser the GOP keeps locked in a basement for the sole purpose of banging out teary-eyed diatribes (isn't it funny how they sound so very upset even when discussing an event that supports their fragile little beliefs?)

You know the same old kiddie themes:

-This country was founded as a CHRISTIAN nation!! Anyone who's not a Christian needs to leave!!
-Democrats/mainstream media are EVIL! Republicans/Fox News are angelic HEROES!
-Boycott any America-hating company that REFUSES to say Merry Christmas!
-Those dang immigants need to speak the ENGLISH language!
-If you DARE to say/think/do anything I don't like, you need to LEAVE my COUNTRY!!
-God FORBID any soldier or the U.S. military in general not have their ASSES KISSED at EVERY OPPORTUNITY! PUCKER UP, YOU UNGRATEFUL SOBS OUT THERE - they are FIGHTING FOR YOUR FREEDOM!
-For that matter, anyone who doesn't bow and kneel to the U.S. Flag or incessantly bellow the Pledge of Allegiance with their hand over the heart is a miserable TRAITOR!

Same shit, same shit, same shit. Over and over. I especially love how they now include some line at the bottom like "If you agree with this email, forward it to everyone you've ever known. If you disagree, just delete it!" Because they are so scared of criticism and rebuttal. So they can spew whatever shit they like, but those who disagree are just supposed to ignore it and let it pass, unchallenged. If only these sniveling turds could just go off and live in that universe they envision to be reality...

[mnhtnbb]

44. Thank you thank you thank you! Especially the line

If you disagree, just delete it!" Because they are so scared of criticism and rebuttal. So they can spew whatever shit they like, but those who disagree are just supposed to ignore it and let it pass, unchallenged.

Precisely what my sister-in-law wanted me to do. I'd had enough!

[WritersBlock]

45. I've always suspected it to be Karl or someone of his ilk.

Seriously.

But regardless of who it is, I agree with you.. it's all coming from one place.