I realized tonight what my problem with Hillary is

[marylanddem]

It's Bill. My spouse asked me "what is it about Hillary you don't like?" and all of a sudden it occurred to me: It's Bill. He's like thisadjunct, this addition, this THING attached to her. I think I would like her a lot more if she were single, divorced, or married to some unknown guy. I know it probably sounds crazy, but as a feminist and woman,it is the only thing that explains it for me. I don't understand it. Just a thought. I like Obama much more, and think his spouse is cool. Bill...what the hell is going on with that?
O.K. That's all I wanted to say.

[Jane Austin]

Agree. n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. I agree. I think he is a detriment to her. It seems like a dictatorship somehow.. first him, then

her, etc. His presence doesn't do her any favors. It's like the same presidency all over again, same pals, same powers, same corporations. Quite odd.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. DELETED DOUBLE POST

[Fresh_Start]

3. So you've given up all your friends who dated a creep?

Or you've succeeded in making your spouse over?

[jasmine621]

4. Hillary's forgiven him.. Why can't you? nt

[marylanddem]

6. Their relationship just strikes me as

disturbing, hard to understand & explain, and that he is somehow using her to his own ends...can't quite figure it out, sorry...

[sandnsea]

5. NAFTA, China, India, Iraq, Iran,

I don't like her for some very specific reasons that only have to do with Bill because his policies sucked too.

[jlake]

7. I actually agree.

I support Hillary, but would like her alot more on her own..... not a huge fan of Bill.
Not too much against him, and I forgive him for his personal failings, but just not a huge fan.

[winga222]

8. Just curious - do you have an issue with all the spouses?

Bill certainly has a much higher profile. But Elizabeth Edwards is out there, forcefully, for her husband. The same with Obama's wife, who I can't say I've warmed up to but I consider that incident, not important. Many, many spouses have high profile roles in the campaign. So is it that it's a man - you think she couldn't make it without him? I'd bet that Edwards would say that he couldn't have achieved what he has in life without such a fantastic woman beside him.

I'm not being critical. You have a complete right to that opinion. But I'm wondering in women candidates have that additional hurdle to take now as well.

:shrug:

[marylanddem]

11. Good question. I don't know. I just know that it

helped me when I realized it's really Bill that disturbs me, not her. And I'm not a "Clinton hater" by a long shot.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. You're one of those Clinton-haters.

Thanks for revealing. :hi:

[HILLBILL]

24. Clinton-haters

With all of the problems in the world thanks to the clown we have in office now,I would much rather have Bill their to give advise to Hillary than take a chance on someone with no more experience than Obama.I can't believethe opinion you people have about Bill, after living with the goofball we have had for the last 7 years.

[gateley]

10. I saw a clip of Clinton (Bill) once viciously ripping into some poor

camera guy who had kept the camera rolling after Bill had thought it had been turned off -- thereby showing some "unguarded" moments. Well when Bill found out, he attacked (verbally) this guy (and again, unbenknownst to Bill, ANOTHER camera was still rolling). He was like a bully lashing out and was absolutely cruel.

Ever since then, I have really disliked him as a PERSON. Hillary doesn't seem to be the same, but in my mind, that shadow hangs over her. What a jerk.

[durrrty libby]

19. To loathe someone over such a small incident is so petty

Bill Clinton has raised billions to help people around the world.

There are politicians who can only talk about making such an impact. Bill delivers

www.mycommitment.org.

[gateley]

22. Okay. I'm petty. nt

[marylanddem]

23. You're not petty - you're observant. Thanks for posting.

[durrrty libby]

29. Obviously 2 peas in a pod.. Truly sad

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I think I saw some of that.

Was it from his Arkansas days? I think Fox showed it recently. (that clip was probably on that shitty Clinton chronicles tape). They were standing around a bush and Clinton was furious. It kind of upset me too but that was a long time ago. We have all had outbursts like that, it just wasn't caught on tape, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

[Rageneau]

36. If you've seen that clip, why haven't the rest of us?

Are you saying that a clip exists of Bill Clinton acting like a jerk and it HASN'T been run on Tim Russert's show, or on Free Republic, or on YouTube ten ZILLION times?

Every OTHER piece of video showing Clinton looking bad has.

This makes me doubt that the clip you talk about really exists -- or if it does, that it shows anything like what you say it did.

But I hate to suggest you are a prevaricator. So why don't you post a link to this video, or at the very least, tell us where you saw this clip, who showed it to you, and where the rest of us can get the same look at Clinton you did, so maybe we can learn to dislike him as much as you do.

If you won't provide such a link, or tell us where we can see this clip, I guess I'll have to call you a prevaricator whether I want to or not.

And a paranoid, mean-spirited Clinton hater, too.

[Whisp]

38. I saw a vid clip the other day - Bill at Ron Brown's funeral...

he was all smiley and jokey until he spotted a camera filming him.
second or two of realizing a camera is on him - looked right at it, then walks a ways, hangs head, wipes his phoney tears...

bad actors, the lot of them.

[durrrty libby]

12. I really enjoy Bill and Hill. They are both fabulous people

I can't imagine siting around thinking about "if she were single, divorced, or married to some unknown guy"

That is beyond creepy, especially from a so-called feminist. That sounds more in line
from the neighborhood busybody and bitty. blech

[Cha]

13. I don't like either one them..so very unfabulous.

[Individualist]

14. Her DLC membership is a much bigger problem

Let's just look at the cold, hard facts about the DLC and its record. The DLC has pushed, among other things, the war in Iraq and "free" trade policies, using bags of corporate money to buy enough Democratic votes to help Republicans make those policies a reality. They have chastised anyone who has opposed those policies as either unpatriotic or anti-business -- even as a majority of Americans now oppose the war in Iraq, oppose the DLC's business-written trade deals, and are sick of watching America's economy sold out to the highest corporate bidder. Additionally, in brazenly Orwellian fashion, the DLC has also called its extremist agenda "centrist," even though polls show the American public opposes most of their agenda, and supports much of the progressive agenda. http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0727-32.htm

The progressive movement has not just threatened this message monopoly -- it is undoing it. Through MoveOn, the rise of popular documentaries, blogs, think tanks, etc. It's not just that we talk about real values and innovative strategies. It's because we're talking, period, that the centrists feel threatened.

Hence the DLC's vicious attempts to discredit the movement. And that's what they want. They don't seek to win an argument over policy. They seek to destroy the credibility of their opponents and restore their message monopoly. http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=721

This is why the DLC is dangerous. For all their claims of supposedly wanting to help Democrats, they employ people like Marshall Wittman who specifically try to undermine the Democratic Party, even if it means he has to publicly defecate out the most rank and easily-debunkable lies. They reguarly give credence to the right wing's agenda and its worst, most unsupportable lies. They are the real force that tries to make sure this country is a one party state and that Democrats never really challenge the Republicans in a serious way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/why-the-dlc-is-so-dangero_b_13640.html

"The Democratic Leadership Council's agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda," http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Kucinich_DLC_agenda_undistinguishable_from_Neocon_0813.html

Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/5/24/1712/23448

These DLC types are amazing, they really are. Their pathology is unique; they all secretly worship the guilt-by-association tactics of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, but unlike those two, not one of them has enough balls to take being thought of as the bad guy by the general public.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11275627/the_low_post_democrats_walk_themselves_to_the_gallows

[Lisa0825]

20. BINGO!

:mad:

[HILLBILL]

15. I realized tonight what my priblem with Hillary is

You're right it sounds crazy.

[Hoof Hearted]

16. Nice first post. What else ya got?

I mean, I could be wrong but. . . I just have this feeling.........

[Swamp Rat]

17. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[cynatnite]

18. It wasn't that long ago when majority of DU loved the big dog...

DU sung his praises when he jumped all over the Faux news jerk for spreading lies. Most everyone here went nuts over him.

Seems mighty convenient that he gets blasted like he's George Bush since his wife is in the race and he wants her to win.

Just an observation.

[never_get_over_it]

21. She wouldn't even be running if she wasn't married to Bill

and I think she actually gains more from it then she doesn't - there are probably a lot of people who long for the good old days when Bill was President.

I personally have a long list of reason I don't support her and yes indeed one is because she is a Clinton - I am sick to death of both the Clintons and the Bushes - I can not tell you how absolutely SICKENING I think Bill Clinton sucking around Papa Bush was/is. I wish they would all just friggin retire off to where ever and leave us the hell alone. Please be gone all of you - we need someone new.....

I have finally decided to vote for her IF she is the nominee - but the suggestion that she represents change is BEYOND COMICAL....

[Sparkly]

25. Look at her bio -- many think he wouldn't have become president without her

and that she gave up a lot of opportunities for her own political career by marrying him and moving to Arkansas.

[marylanddem]

26. What opportunities did she give up?

[Sparkly]

31. She had made inroads in DC

and had women (don't know about men) around her who wanted to help her do more. She was thought to have a great chance for a significant career in politics. Her early mentors and supporters were disappointed that she decided to move to Arkansas and marry Clinton.

[never_get_over_it]

39. I'm not saying that she might not have had a great political career

what I'm saying is she might have had a great political career but not be a serious contender for President had she not been married to Bill Clinton. However she is not the only one - look at the freak in chief, he would be NO WHERE if he was not Papa Bush's son - Nit WIT Romney would probably be no where if it wasn't for his father - and there are many many more examples I'm sure.

I don't mean it as a put down but just a fact. There are several women politicians but none of them are serious Presidential contenders - and today I heard a caller to Thom Hartmann's show and I swear to God when she said she was supporting Hillary she didn't say she was supporting Hillary she said she was supporting Bill and Hillary and she said it multiple times - and frankly it sounded completely idiotic and annoying.....but I'm betting a lot of the votes Hillary gets are for those who long for the good old days of the Clinton Presidency - even with all its bad days it was still a hell of a lot better than what we have had the past seven years.

[Sparkly]

27. I'm just going to throw this out there

and don't know if it's affecting your feelings or not, not saying it is or not, etc...

It's pretty common, subconsciously or not, to define women by their husbands. He's obviously a man of real power and she can seem literally small beside him. She'd sort of seem larger herself either alone or beside an unknown. The contrast with him, and her relationship with him, can automatically cast her in a different role and a different light than if she were alone.

(Notice they didn't have him behind her last night as she spoke. Did she seem different in that speech?)

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. That's funny. The thing I like MOST about Hill is Bill. He's so damn smart

compared to the brainless wonder in the WH. I thought he was one hell of a President (the best in my lifetime, besides JFK, but I was only 8 when he died) and after having the psycho-in-chief in power, I KNOW Bill Clinton was one hell of a president. NOT perfect, but a damn fine prez. I couldn't care less about his Monica blow jobs. HELL! I'm praying for someone to give the psycho a blow job so we can Impeach him!

Bill's cool with me. He tends to talk too much at times, but at least he's not a bumbling illiterate FOOL, like the psycho.

[HILLBILL]

33. He's so damn smart.

Ditto !!!!!!! Icould'nt have said it any better:applause:

[Harper_is_Bush]

32. "what the hell is going on with that?"

What the hell is going on with you?

Your reaction and retionalization of it is bizarre, and you should seek to exorcise yourself of it.

[Deja Q]

34. Given Bill's nefarious and philandering past, what you say makes a good deal of sense.

Not crazy at all.

The fact she needs him tethered to her in order to boost her appearance is questionable too. If she's so strong, why would she need or want help from such an influential figure - who's far more than an indirect business associate one would call up as a reference from a résumé!

[marylanddem]

35. Thank HypnoToad

I really did not intend to provoke so much anger among the pro-Hillary people - this has been an eye-opener.

[durrrty libby]

37. So many males are dumb sexist thugs. I expect women to

be more evolved. It is so disappointing to see that many are not.

[Generator]

40. Well I like Bill better than Hillary

At least he didn't ride some woman's coattails for 35 years and then expect to be made president on her name.

[Raine]

41. I agree

I'm sick of Bill and I do not want to see him in the Whitehouse again. :puke: