I am getting pretty pissed off.

[boston bean]

I am NOT a Hillary supporter.

But I am going to defend her as a woman.

This board should be ashamed of itself. The hidden sexism is absolutely disgusting.

I don't give a fuck if you hate her, but this is suppose to be a board of progressives. But oh, no more.

As far as I can tell the women's movement never took place, if you skim through a few posts.

And no, I could care less if you are talking about her policies and truthfulness and competency, but when you start with the crying, shrill, bitch, etc. you have crossed the line.

And for the women who partake in this makes me especially ashamed for you.

I can understand discussions regarding electability, because this country is what it is, but the posts I see have moved beyond the pale.

It is truly disgusting.

[Caoimhe]

1. Well said, and thank you. k&r

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. Huh?

I think the crying might have something to do with the competency, but more likely the truthfulness.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Getting choked up then.

Whatever you want to call it.

[Saturday]

18. And I'm pissed at the liars who insist on calling it crying....

when it clearly was NOT.

[reggie the dog]

217. what is wrong with crying or showing emotion?

I do not support most of her political decisions but what is wrong with showing emotion? In Chicago we love it when mayor Daley gets worked up about something. What is the problem with emotion?

[reggie the dog]

218. smoke and mirrors bullshit

This is the same kind of bullshit reporting about nothing that the media did to Howard Dean when he yelled yeehawww. Pathetic. The idea that people want a president that shows no emotion, like a robot instead of a human, disgusts me.

[jgraz]

37. Just a hint: using the 'L' word is one of the best ways to get your posts deleted

If you have a problem with what someone says, try to challenge them without the namecalling.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[roguevalley]

136. I remember when this sort of stuff sunk the man from Minnesota,

the Senator ... oh god. I can't believe I cannot remember his name. This sort of thing sinks campaigns. If Hillary is trying to soldier on, this allows the perception of weakness. She cannot afford to look weak, no matter how normal and human it might be to show emotion. This is the race for president. Something like this shows fear and depression and lends to an image of defeat. She
can't do that. It works against her.

[jgraz]

143. Shriver

[roguevalley]

159. shriver or muskie.

[jgraz]

164. Whoops -- yep it was Muskie.

[Milly]

227. Well Said ................Thank You

I'm new here on this board,I have been reading the board for a few years, the name calling puts me off .
What will it be like Before the General Election when we cant be civil in Primaries?

[defendandprotect]

148. Where's the tape of all this "crying" . . . ???

Basically, my objection is to what HRC said . . . mimicking the comments that Edwards has
often made --

[Dorian Gray]

174. That's what annoys me, too...

there was no crying. There was no hysteria. People are so quick to talk about her crying, but she simply got choked up. A little bit.

And though I question whether it was calculated (as I do with most things all politicians do) in order to soften her image, I don't think
it makes her weak or qustionable as a leader. It pisses me off when I read those comments.

[defendandprotect]

226. I did now see the interview with what's her name? Nixon's journalistic pal --- ????

Can't think of her name at the moment ---

But --- from the film that she saw I don't see any crying ---
Yet, HRC did get a bit emotional --- who doesn't?

PLUS it's a long tiring schedule --
and, let's face it, they have had a few disappointing days for their campaign!

[MichiganVote]

15. How many hours are you working at this Born...you go over and over this point on every string

that relates to Hillary Clinton. Are you FOR any Democratic candidates or just hanging around counting your...whatever...

You need to get a life kid. I don't think most people care who you are for but man, you sure are a frequent flyer at anything that concerns Clinton. People will manage to make up their own minds you know with or without your one liners.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Oh boo hoo.

I'm going to run off and cry now.

[MichiganVote]

21. WHO cares what you do? Go play in the street or something...your comments are the same wherever

you post. Aren't you bored with yourself yet? Do you like posting the same thing over and over again?

Get a life, you need it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Aren't you getting bored?

All I'm seeing is Hillary spin, nary an original thought.

[emilyg]

28. You need help.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. Says the Clinton supporter.

:rofl:

[emilyg]

90. Says a person with compassion.

Look it up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

212. Says a person who knows crocidile tears when he sees them.

[MichiganVote]

33. Needs a 12 step program to quit Clinton.

[MichiganVote]

32. So what? There's spin on everybody nowadays. You're like the Don Quixote of Clinton "crying" !

Give it a rest! :crazy:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Maybe.

But I don't get all upset when other people don't agree.

[Hoof Hearted]

39. apparently you do. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Apparently? Where is it apparent?

I'm not the one resorting to name calling.

[Hoof Hearted]

145. nice change of subject there. n/t

[MichiganVote]

49. Define upset. If I see someone posting on something over and over again, I

tend to think they have a bone to pick that's got their goat. I am a gloriously undecided voter as yet. I read posts on all the candidates for an hour or so every evening. You show up over an dover again tonight on this "crying" thing with the one liners and I'm supposed to believe you're not upset?

Suit yourself but really...thunk on it. Post FOR the person you recommend. You know, give me something with substance to read and digest. I'll read it, I really will. And so will others.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. Ad hominem attacks strike me as getting upset.

Especially when you post them over and over again.

:rofl:

"You show up over an dover again tonight on this "crying" thing with the one liners and I'm supposed to believe you're not upset?"

No, I'm not upset. The word is "Schadenfreude."

[MichiganVote]

62. So your malicious glee has been noted. Again. We get it. You're gloating.

Thank you for that update. Again. It is clearly to the entire boards benefit that we recognize your superior ability to delve into this delicious exercise of repetition. You're the best. Again.

Now if you'll excuse me, my hour is almost over. Its been...um...nice? Bye.

[WittyUsername]

85. I don't think BH takes himself as seriously as some(pehaps you) do....

I think that may be causing some sort of impedance mismatch or something... I personally find him amusing... (despite my low post count,I've been around for awhile but I forgot my information on my saywhatyo account)..

Anyways, I may be wrong here, but that's how it always seemed to me... I know people tend to take me more seriously than they should. I find that to be rather amusing too.

[trekbiker]

195. agree... Fooligan enjoys twisting people into knots..

but he's right... I'm feeling some of that Schadenfreude over this Shrillary debacle myself. Was she "crying" for our nation which will be lost without her supreme leadership ability? Or was it simply selfish emotion as she watches it all slip away?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

211. Twisting into knots?

You were the guy who supported James Watson on the issue of white supremacy!

How did I twist you in a knot?

[trekbiker]

224. you didnt... try not to take yourself so seriously Fooligan.. n/t

[MichiganVote]

130. Welcome to DU

and no I don't give darn what your opinion is...this is a board that is little more than a promotional exchange at present so neither do 99.9% of the other posters on this board.

But if you're a wanna be comedic writer working at union wage you're in good company. If you think you're funny that is.

[Harper_is_Bush]

72. WTF? People who tear up are not competant or honest?

You need to check yourself, because that is some fucked up bullshit you're spewing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. No, Hillary Clinton isn't.

:shrug:

[Harper_is_Bush]

79. It appears YOU are the dishonest one, judging by your answer to me.

Go take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's worth shedding your dignity and respect in support of your candidate.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

82. What shedding?

If I had no dignity or respect, I'd be supporting Clinton.

[leftynyc]

175. Don't waste your time with this one

It's like milk past it's due date. Rancid.

[Cronus Protagonist]

200. I don't know who it is, but I agree

That's what the ignore list is for.... :P

[leftynyc]

214. I only put one person on ignore a few

years ago and they were banned within the day. Since then, I haven't but my trigger finger is certainly getting itchy.

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. K & R for women!

:kick:

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. I agree, why can't the male candidates cry on camera?

It seems to work for the Republicans. After all, George and John Bush cry at least once a month on camera. Are Democratic leaders not allowed to cry? I'd like to see Obama cry. It would be very endearing...

[JuniperLea]

7. Good call!

The men would be sensitive, Hillary is just a weepy woman... jeez. I'm not a Hillary person either, but dammit, this bullshit is getting out of hand.

[Donnachaidh]

12. that's not tears from bush

it's the gin and tonic weepies.

Drunks have a problem controlling that.

[leftynyc]

176. Exactly - it's the double standard that's the problem

Men can get emotional and nobody on this board (or in the press) would say boo. I honestly didn't think it would be a problem for Hillary until I sat down and watched the news last night. I was astonished.

[Cronus Protagonist]

181. The meme seems to be taking hold too

Now I've seen posts on other sites about Hillary weeping, and all she really did was tear up a bit, just like I do or any other human being when faced with an emotional and exhausting event. Hillary's weeping = Dean's Scream = Hillary's Cackle - manufactured nonsense propaganda.

[Hatchling]

5. I'm getting angry about the rampant sexism myself.

k&r

[MichiganVote]

6. Yup, some real sick puppies on this board when it comes to women, in or out of office.

[WittyUsername]

8. Any non-specifics specifics?

I'm assuming you're not saying that anyone who dislikes Hillary is a sexist, at least I hope not. So, I take it that means there were some overtly sexist things said about her... I didn't have a chance to look today, but in the past I've never noticed anything that I would classify as sexist. Perhaps you could point out somethings(without breaking the rules) for those of us who may not be as intune with it.

[Hoof Hearted]

11. look around a little. it's everywhere. btw, welcome to DU.

[pnwmom]

221. One of the reasons you may not see the worst is that they

get removed by the moderators.

Welcome to DU, WittyUsername.

[BlackVelvet04]

9. Disgusting is being nice.....

I'm pretty sick of the attitudes as well.

[Hoof Hearted]

10. K&R, and I would also like to add that the sexism isn't really all that hidden

some of it is WAY out in the open. It's like I've been reading propaganda leaflets for a freepathon.

[xultar]

13. The sexism on DU sux big shit.

[goodgd_yall]

70. No kiddin' n/t

[OzarkDem]

16. I just watched the clip, I didn't see her crying

what people are waging in the news media and online is nothing more than another smear campaign. I want to see a woman elected President, and I don't like this kind of sexism.

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. I can't even imagine her crying

She's tough as nails. Some tearing under high emotion is perfectly normal, but it ain't crying.

[Little Star]

22. k&r for all the women who can't recognize sexism.

[gateley]

23. Biden teared up when he was speaking about the troops dying in Iraq - and

I was VERY impressed by his compassion. Nobody called him weak or gave him grief about it.

I agree - sexism.

[OzarkDem]

40. Perfect example

[SOS]

146. How about Ed Muskie in NH in '72?

Another perfect example?

[bpeale]

24. "whatever" from this woman

[Hoof Hearted]

35. yeah, like, you know, like, totally *whatever*

[Jane Austin]

26. Don't be too sure it's real DUers.

There've been an awful lot of new posters who say very unkind things about each of the candidates.

[boston bean]

30. I wish this were the case, and it may be in some cases, but not all. nt

[OzarkDem]

44. I agree

same with some of the insensitive comments about Obama. The stir the pot and occasionally get regular DU'ers to say things they shouldn't or don't mean.

[Dorian Gray]

177. Or maybe there are just real DUers

who are responsible for saying unkind or obnoxious things...

Reading these topics about HC and BO, I've seen a lot of familiar names saying some borderline sexist/racist things about the candidates. I don't think it's fair to blame that on disruptors.

[Elspeth]

27. Liberal or conservative, most guys will never believe women are really equal to them

even when the women are superior to them.

[Donnachaidh]

41. Bingo!

Amen to that thought!

[Elspeth]

47. That's the way it is. Until we get our own nukes and an army...

Oh, was that too militant?

:sarcasm:

[MichiganVote]

52. LOL! Yeah, let's do it! Let's really do it!

[Elspeth]

59. All we need is start up capital and some decent government contracts

Like Blackwater...

Yeah...

[MichiganVote]

65. And a few easily discarded white guys in $1000 suits and the treehouse is ours baby!

Oh dear, that was sorta sexist wasn't it....

[Jade Fox]

77. The USA is actually way behind the rest of the world......

when it comes to women heading up government, as this article shows:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elayne-boosler/is-america-ready-for-a-w_b_40300.html

I think Americans are far more misogynist than we like to think we are. We have the technical equality, but the attitudes run deep.

The inability of people on this board to separate their dislike of HRC as a politician (which I share) from her gender is pretty astounding. I am especially amazed by those posters who project all sorts of evil motives and emotions onto Hilary Clinton, information they could not possibly have access to unless they knew Clinton well and saw her regularly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

149. "information they could not possibly (know) unless they knew Clinton well and saw her regularly"

We don't?

She's the most overexposed politician of our age, and famous for her campaign discipline.

I'm inclined to believe that her frustrated rejoinder during the last debate was honest because the resulting message was so off. I'm not inclined to believe that the controlled release of emotion today was anything other than that - controlled, and (although slightly desperate) likely to be successful.

That 'ol patriarchy and chivalry can come in handy sometimes.

[DawgHouse]

95. So true!

[AX10]

29. It stems from the blind hate of her.

[Pathwalker]

34. ALL the hate has convinced me to vote for Hillary.

As much as it pains me to do it, all the "virtual vomit" on this board has convinced me to stand up for her, and against the venom spewed on this site, because pissing off the Hillary haters will give me even more pleasure. What's more, so will my three pro-Hillary male family members. Before this, I wasn't sure who I wanted - now I know.

[jgraz]

38. Do it soon while you have the chance.

O8)

[Donnachaidh]

45. wow -- I see counting chickens isn't stopping on DU.

ONE primary and it's all over?

Don't.Think.So. :rofl: No matter how much you pray.... :rofl:

[jgraz]

48. I've been making the same prediction for 6 months

Hillary's gonna go three-and-out. To be fair, I was hoping it would be Edwards who sent her packing, but Obama will do.

[Pathwalker]

53. Well, we're voting in Michigan, so it's no problem.

Four votes for Hillary will be delivered next week, courtesy of my family. Three men, one woman.

[jgraz]

63. And that will get her how many delegates?

:shrug:

[Pathwalker]

66. Time will tell. I'm in no hurry. You?

Hey, it's January.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Can't find a good reason?

Neither can I.

[jgraz]

64. There isn't one.

[Pathwalker]

96. Yep. Women's rights, human rights, children's rights,

health care, the environment. Just to name a few.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

185. And that's why I'm not voting for Hillary.

You can't support the war in Iraq and pretend to care about such things.

[SammyWinstonJack]

98. ...

:evilgrin:

[Marrah_G]

42. Thank you...sometimes this place gets a little insane

I think it is a small but vocal group who can't put aside their own hatred for any reason. I feel bad for them really.

[femrap]

43. K and R

Thank you for saying this....It is disgusting.

IMHO, if I said some of the nasty things I've been hearing about Obama, I am sure I would banned from this website....but with sexism, the last acceptable ism, it's all fun and games, right? After all women are just here to be ridiculed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. I absolutely agree with you

I have defended Obama up and down these boards against vicious lies and outright dishonesty. I am shocked by the way Obama and Edwards people are treating Ms. Clinton. It is awful and, as you say, disgusting.

Whatever happened to disagreeing without being disagreeable?

[earth mom]

54. Hillary has had NO sympathy for any of us-the peons of this country.

Did she give a damn when Cindy Sheehan begged her to help to stop the war? HELL NO!

Has Hillary done anything towards Impeaching * & Cheney? OH HELL NO!

Hillary is a DINO corporatist who only thinks of helping her buddies get richer and richer off the backs of the middle class and poor.

Hillary's dream may be over and I don't feel one bit sorry for her crybaby act. Because she is feeling sorry for NO ONE but herself. :puke:

[boston bean]

67. I was with you until the cry baby act. you can't see it in yourself. nt

[earth mom]

94. Sorry, but too many people have DIED for me to feel compassion for someone who is responsible

for those deaths who is now crying for themselves because they may not get the power and control they want so badly.

Hillary's behavior reminds me of a baby having a tantrum.

And you know what else? I say that as a woman and a mother who grieves for all the lives that have been wasted and lost because of Hillary and the rest of murdering bastards in Congress.

Excuse me, but Hillary is the one who can't see past her own self and her own selfish ambition.

So don't go pointing those b.s. fingers at me.


I didn't vote to kill a bunch of innocent people and vote to keep funding the killing of people over and over and over again. :grr:

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. ...

:thumbsup:

[pnwmom]

222. Her voice cracking reminds you of a "baby having a tantrum"?????

There is someone here who's having a tantrum and it's not Hillary.

[KoKo]

55. Agree...and you need to know in case you don't watch media...She's Old...and even her Hubby says so!

It's DREADFUL! But, when you have Brittany Spears and others Hounded to their DEATH and reality & Crime Shows 24/7 with Female Victims and the NEW Media on MSNBC/CNBC/NBC with fluffy token females laughing as their Co-Hosts make fun of them and demean them like some kind of 50's Sit Com..then you know the WOMENS MOVEMENT IS DEAD. And when they take Hillary out on a Stretcher then be aware that violence against women and laughing and ridicule and rapes and murder will go back to the 50's until a NEW GROUP of ACTIVISTS comes BACK to re-energize the abuse of females through Porn and Stereotypes.

Everything goes in cycles. And just as Obama has no ties to the old Civil Rights Movement...there's no one left who has any understanding about what the "Women's Rights Movement" did for them. There's not even a memory that Women didn't get the RIGHT TO VOTE until the 20th CENTURY!

Media doesn't talk about that...and so no one wants to hear about it. In America ...HISTORY IS DEAD...rights that folks worked and died for ARE DEAD.

OBAMA IS NEW and just watch MIKA and FOX GAL on CNBC and the BABES ON THE LOCAL CHANNELS...there's no HISTORY THERE!

[hiphopnation]

56. i haven't contributed to the "hate" fest

but i just watched the clip -- it's totally disingenuous and unbelievable, as his her entire platform and campaign.

ain't it possible for folks to express genuine frustration with her shilling and empty rhetoric without fear of being called a sexist?

[SammyWinstonJack]

102. Apparently not and isn't that a shame? If we don't support Obama we are racist if we point out

that Clinton tearing up might be disingenuous and unbelievable, we are sexist. :shrug:

[boston bean]

127. Your statement: "Clinton tearing up might be disingenuous and unbelievable, we are sexist"

Is not sexist. That is opinion.

Calling her a cry baby, shrill, bitch, etc. is sexist.

Get it?

[pnwmom]

223. Of course it is. And people who want to criticize her should do so

without using sexist language or a sexist framework. You succeeded in doing so, by the way. It's not hard.

[hiphopnation]

225. i know there is plenty of sexism (and racism) on this board

but as it relates to this issue, i think that her tearing up was a ploy in the most calculating and craven way -- so much so, that it deserves to be mocked. i don't advocate calling her a "bitch", as the OP has suggested is happening -- the prosecution of which has perpetuated this 200+ post thread -- but calling her a "cry baby" or other such mocking language that takes her to task for the manipulative tactics she employs is totally "in bounds", imho. If people misconstrue it as sexist, my feeling is that the misinterpretation is their's.

We're all on this board, presumably, because we advocate progress and look to endorse the agents most befitting the characteristics that can bring about said progress -- that is the ideal end-goal of all of this. Anyone who stands in the way of it is subject to scorn and ridicule not because we're a ravenous bunch of mirror-images of "that other site", but because THEY ARE OBSTACLES TO PROGRESS. Just like Hillary is.

All of that said, there are, without a doubt, some racist, sexist, misogynistic ignorant pigs on this board. Self-identified progressives! And they deserve to be bludgeoned about the face/breast/neck/chest and head with their idiocy at every turn. In the same way that those self-identified progressives who are obstacles to progress do.

[Stinky The Clown]

57. I'm Stinky the Clown and I endorse this message by MassDemm - K&R

[Left coast liberal]

58. You know, I read way more than post on DU but....

I wonder at the over the top negative stuff on DU. I always figured a lot of it just came from freepers or posers who were just trying to piss us off. You know, intentionally. So we will take our eye off the ball and waste our energy and ideas on defending our candidates from petty jabs.

Remember, it's pretty damn easy to come to DU and bad mouth a candidate. But, I would say, don't rise to the bait.

Support your candidate - HARD! And, let's take back the reins! This really is an epic fight.

BTW - I support Edwards for so many reasons stated so well at DU. Hillary is a strong, smart woman. Actually, I think she would make a great president. Ok, I was a little surprised at the tear up but she is probably exhausted. But, frankly, I was way more disappointed when she took all that money from big business and went along with Bush's illegal war.

[boston bean]

61. just read through this thread, it is not all new posters. so very sad. nt

[WinkyDink]

68. A lot of ANGRY men have a problem with emotions. Theirs.

Not necessarily here at DU.

[Harper_is_Bush]

69. Yep. Many who support a candidate on this board are stooping to some pretty low levels.

It is shameful.

[DemGa]

71. Hear, hear!

Heartily recommended!

[goodgd_yall]

73. And it's working against the supporters of other candidates

I'm pissed at the misogyny and at the ganging up during the debates. So, do they want to turn people against THEIR candidates? Keep it up, folks, and you're going to lose some people.

[boston bean]

74. I have pause

about supporting Edwards because of what he did in the debate.

I still love his message though, but I must admit it has given me pause. But I don't see my support changing at this point.

[goodgd_yall]

83. I have to say

same here. In actuality, my vote will be tactical at the end. I'll see how things are by the California's primary comes up.

[eridani]

76. Name a Kucinich supporter who has ever called her "shrill" or "bitchy"

What if we don't like her commitment to the utterly disastrous policy of continuing to attempt to dominate the rest of the world by force? Sure, all the frontrunners go along with that, which is why the One Percenters allow them to be frontrunners, but Clinton is getting the most financial support from the military-industrial complex.

What if we despise Mark Penn? He ain't no woman, last I heard.

[boston bean]

78. Then I guess this thread isn't meant especially for you. nt

[youthere]

80. DAMN STRAIGHT! K & R

[theredpen]

81. Shame on anyone making this a gender issue

Including you, MassDemm.

A lot of people — myself included — believe that grace under pressure is a prerequisite for being the President. I don't care what gender someone is, becoming overwhelmed with emotion at this time in the election process is not a good sign. I apply these standards to men and women.

Perhaps, I haven't read the threads you have, but anyone turning this into "misogynists" versus "feminists" is just cheapening the debate and insulting those of us who have kept her gender off the table. Why is it that whenever this "boys against the girls" theme is invoked it always boils down to some special pleading that Hillary shouldn't be subjected to the same scrutiny, criticism and — let's call it what it is — abuse that the other candidates experience?

[hiphopnation]

84. bingo

lucid post, good on ya theredpen.

sadly, you should be prepared to be flamed...

[boston bean]

86. You have made a very poor argument.

You can think whatever you want about Hillary, but if you start using sexist comments, like cry baby, shrill, bitch people have moved away from intelligent discussion to pure sexism.

And I couldn't disagree more. If we don't point out when this is happening we come to accept it. Like you, yourself has. I don't accept it and people should feel ashamed of those thoughts and feelings.

There is a way to discuss this issue intelligently without the sexist comments and if you choose to accept it, that is your perogative, but sad.

And if you haven't read the posts and seen the posts that I have, then you are poorly informed in making this post to me.

[theredpen]

89. Speaking of poor... a paucity of supporting material

if you start using sexist comments, like cry baby, shrill, bitch people have moved away from intelligent discussion to pure sexism.

Did I use these terms? Did I deny that they were sexist?

And if you haven't read the posts and seen the posts that I have, then you are poorly informed in making this post to me.

My telepathy isn't working tonight so I can't read your mind. If you are going to require me to have read the posts to which you are referring, you could — y'know — refer to them. There's a neat thing called a "link." Look into it.

[boston bean]

92. Obviously I didn't mean you Literally in my post and DU rules prohibit

me from calling out other duers. And no you did not say the posts were sexist, but you told me basically that I was hurting women by pointing out sexism. Which is worse.

Why don't you do your due diligence and do us all the favor of informing yourself.

[theredpen]

104. There is no rule prohibitting links to other discussions.

This is perfectly fine: "Some of the comments posted in this thread contained sexist language"

It's all fine and good to call people on not doing due diligence, but you can't expect your readers to search around the thousands of DU posts looking for examples if they haven't already seen them.

I haven't seen them and, thus, I'm inclined to react skeptically to claims of gender bias against Hillary by fellow DUers. I am also equally inclined to be skeptical of claims that DUers have racial bias against Barack Obama. I pointed out that I hadn't read the posts you'd read to indicate that my response was skeptical, but not intended to imply that you are insincere or dishonest. I've read waaaay too many "People are saying X" claims that have turned out to be without any credible basis when examples were demanded.

If you've seen some threads where "some posters who shall remain nameless" have stepped over the line, post some links to the original post so we can read them. I'd gladly flame any sexists DUers.

In the mean time, my experience has been different.

[boston bean]

110. I think I will leave it to you to find them. They are numerous and in most threads

referring to Hillary.

Open up one of those, but at this point, I have sincere doubt that you would be able to see one if it were to bite you in the butt.

[theredpen]

115. Oh! Ouch!

I have sincere doubt that you would be able to see one if it were to bite you in the butt.

Well, this quip is in no way revealing. :eyes:

There are "numerous" threads and you can't post a link to a single one of them.

[goodgd_yall]

87. What a lot of hooey.

You are in denial.

[SammyWinstonJack]

106. Thank you!

[F.Gordon]

88. As you should be

Sexism is alive and well. That it flurishes and grows on DU is a very disturbing.

I was going to type a lengthy post talking about my own personal observations on this issue but I figured this thread would be in the archives by the time I finished.

Let's just say... Ms F' and myself own a small corp. Ms F' is the President of the Corp. The stories I could tell.

The other day I 'almost' posted a reply to a "DU Hero" :eyes: that would have surely had me sucking granite. Maybe suckin' granite wouldn't be so bad.

This shit is getting insane. I have to keep looking at my browser to make sure I'm on DU.

[DawgHouse]

91. Not very well hidden, IMO.

[Xenotime]

93. Well said.

[hiaasenrocks]

97. Easy on the hysteria.

Some of it is pure satire (and yes, ALL politicians are subject to being made fun of, deal with it) and some of it is people delighting in the fact that the campaign of inevitability is failing. You don't just have the nomination handed to you; you earn it. She is failing now because she can't earn it. Sorry.

By the way, you meant to say you "couldn't" care less. Yes, language matters. ;)

[boston bean]

99. Hysteria?

:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

105. Are you not mad as hell and aren't you not going to take it anymore?

Maybe I'm mistaken. I thought you were roaring.

[boston bean]

108. You are the best example yet. Thank you. nt

[HooptieWagon]

101. I see it this way

She cast the votes that steered the country in the direction she's claiming to take it personal about - in that case she's a hypocrite and is crying crocodile tears. If the tears are real, maybe its b/c she's seeing her campaign go down the toilet. In any case, I sincerely hope that whoever's elected president, when they're facing down Putin or some other foreign leader at the negotiating table, that they don't break into tears.

[dysfunctional press]

103. people are entitled to their opinions and to express them...

and you are just as entitled to get as pissed off about it as you want/need to.

is this still a great country, or what?

[boston bean]

107. It is not just opinion. That is why I said "hidden" sexism.

Some people think its just an opinion when it is really sexism. If someone can discuss the issue without the sexist remarks, that is different and that is opinion. But what is appearing on this board is sexism and I outlined what those were.

Please don't make that excuse to yourself and for others.

[hiaasenrocks]

109. Get over yourself.

You say it's hidden, yet you're also arguing that it's obvious. (Don't bother trying to reconcile that. You can't.)

You and others (of both genders, I assume) are using the "sex-ist/ism" label because, well, that's all you have at this point. It really is a cheap ploy. I think most see right through it.

And this is about all the time I'll waste reading your drivel. G'night!

[dysfunctional press]

112. what constitutes "hidden sexism" to you?

since it's so rampant, i'm sure that you could easily point out several examples of just what you're talking about, for the rest of us who might be wondering.

[boston bean]

114. You won't get it. If you haven't seen one yet, you never will. nt

[dysfunctional press]

125. people with weak arguments always seem to hide behind that one...

which says a lot about yours.

[boston bean]

129. I have answered this question many times and to you specifically, please read it. thanks. nt

[dysfunctional press]

134. actually, no- you haven't.

:shrug:

[MedleyMisty]

120. Bitch, hysterical, whiny, over-emotional

Commenting on appearance and her marital relationship instead of issues, holding her to a different standard than the males running for office, etc.

Essentially it's criticizing her based on gender and/or using terms derogatory to all women.

As for the females who participate - I've come up with the term Aunt Bertha. You know, like Uncle Tom.

[dysfunctional press]

124. how is that "hidden"? it seems right out there in the open.

nt

[boston bean]

126. It is hidden because people think its their opinion not sexist.

Why do you want to make this an argument about semantics?

[dysfunctional press]

132. i'm trying to understand the terms you chose to use...

you're getting "pissed" about all the "hidden" sexism, and i honestly don't know what you mean by "hidden"...using sexist terms and attitudes doesn't really seem too "hidden"- it's more like "blatant".

[boston bean]

133. have you read my responses or do you want me to write it again? nt

[dysfunctional press]

135. which response are you referring to?

the one where you refer to the blatant stuff as hidden?

or another one?

[Little Star]

137. post 107 nt

[undercutter2006]

111. very true

I really want hillary to be the president after what happened two nights ago at the debates. When I looked at this forum two nights ago all I could see was people talking how hillary clinton 'went crazy', 'had a meltdown', had a 'dean scream moment' during the debates. So obviously I was thrilled to go on youtube to see this crazy ass thing, and then... All I saw was a woman talking passionately, with a forceful tone of voice, slightly agitated but never losing her composure. And I was like - what the hell? How is this different from any other time when (male) politicians get passionate about something? Did she not smile enough or something? It just makes me wish we had a female president for the next four years so people would be FORCED to get used to hearing a woman speak with authority, I think it would be good for our culture.

[upi402]

113. her gender should not target her nor sheild her

I don't like Republicans in the Democratic party. That's my problem with her. Period.

[boston bean]

117. I don't disagree with you. But using sexism to drag her down

is disgusting.

And that is what my post was about.

[upi402]

128. I'm glad I haven't heard any sexism as a reason to oppose her

I don't watch TV news anymore, maybe that shields me.

[boston bean]

131. look through the end of this thread and enter a hillary thread and you will find them. nt

[Rockholm]

116. Excellent post. Thank You.

[tandem5]

118. exactly...

I hate that anger forces me to choose one candidate over another. I was already leaning towards Clinton, but any hesitation I had before is now gone and that's due in part to print and TV media, and the DU.

[never_get_over_it]

119. Could not agree with you more

except to say

"This board should be ashamed of itself. The hidden sexism is absolutely disgusting"

The sexism doesn't seem that hidden to me -

here is one of my favorites - that poor shrill pathetic bitchy plate thrower - we can't have that for President - maybe she could make us some coffee :sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2606631#2606841

I'm not a Hillary supporter by any means - she has disappointed me beyond belief - but these sexist remarks have pissed me off too.....

but as a woman who has personally experienced this kind of double standard treatment in the workplace - I get it - sadly a lot of folks here at DU don't seem to....

[Hotler]

121. I'm with MassDemm. Who here has not felt the..

burden and weight from the priorities in their own lives. Crying is a natural function by the body for emotional/stress relief.

[NCarolinawoman]

122. I just posted on another thread that I am SICK of it!

:nuke:

[LostinVA]

123. "Standing Ovation"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

138. I Find It Beyond Disgusting As Well. Some People Need To Remember How To Be Human Beings.

I truly feel for her. The pettiness that has begun to rear its head is a bit disgraceful.

[Little Star]

140. Thanks OMC!

People fluff it off as their "opinion", when it is sexist and bigoted. But the OP still finds herself trying to explain this phenomenon.

[defendandprotect]

139. You're contradicting yourself --- Hillary is DLC; not progressive ----

[Little Star]

141. Is this it, is this

the best you can come up with.

[defendandprotect]

147. "Come up with..."? Evidently you're not bothered by DLC or corp candidates?

[Little Star]

151. You obviously can't read. Did the poster say Hillary was progressive? NO

She said DU was. Your post makes no sense, the poster says she doesn't support Hillary, yet you try to make it about that. Like I said, is that all you got? Obsfucation?

[defendandprotect]

157. Here is what the elegant poster said . . .

I don't give a fuck if you hate her, but this is suppose to be a board of progressives. But oh, no more.

Again --- I cited the "contradictory" nature of the post ---
why would the poster expect a progressive DU website to support a DLC corporate candidate --- ???

We're seeing a lot of emotionalism here, seemingly for the sake of emotionalism.

[Little Star]

161. She doesn't support Hillary and she doesn't support sexism.

What is so difficult about that. If you are going to try and make logical arguments, let it atleast be something the OP is about.

[defendandprotect]

167. Are you replying to my post, because it's not relative to anything I said . . . ?

IF this is a PROGRESSIVE BOARD . . . which the poster suggested ---

Why is there surprise that many posters here do not support HRC who is not progressive and
who is a DLC-corporate candidate ---

That would be on the ISSUES . . .
issues are not sexism ---

[Skittles]

142. there are a lot of sexist assholes on DU

and very, very few of them admit it and are probably not even aware what sexist assholes they are

[Egalia]

144. Sexism at DU?

Thanks for the post, MassDemm. The only thing I disagree with is that the sexism here at DU is far from "hidden."

[defendandprotect]

160. There is "sexism" at DU -- let's deal with it as it comes along ---

And I don't think it would be a bad idea for females to keep track of the sexism they see at DU and make it a more frequent point of discussion ---

However, in this regard re HRC . . . let's first find out what is going on here and if it is indeed sexism --- or not?

Someone has told us that it is ---

Let's explore it and see if we agree ---

[Little Star]

162. Read the posts in this thread alone there are instances pointed out and sourced on DU.

Also, there are some right here within this thread. Read the whole thing and you might realize.

[defendandprotect]

165. I've read much of the thread . . .

[hatrack]

150. I agree 100% - she's not my first choice, but the triviality tsunami here is disgusting

Yeah, so she got a little choked up in a live appearance.

WHO

GIVES

A

FUCK?

Unbelievable . . .

[Mr_Monday]

152. How can you see the sexism

if it's hidden? Or are you just being paranoid?

[Little Star]

153. There are posters on DU who think this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2624001

is not sexist.

And see this post in response when I suggested in another thread that it was sexist:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3985912&mesg_id=3986398

And then see this post for an explanation on why its hidden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2624001#2624528

[defendandprotect]

163. Referencing the links you posted ---

First one ---
I don't see anything in the comments that wasn't said of Muskie -- though we know that was a set up.
I cite "4" as questionable, however national leaders are calling our president a "moran" and "the devil" --- and we frequently refer to George's low IQ -- don't we?

Second one --
it was negative and illogical and ad hominem
I am not sure how it is sexist. Unless somehow any attack on a woman is sexist.

And I agree with it --
not every attack on a woman is going to be because someone "hates" her or because of sexism ---

Third post --
Yes, it is true that women are denigrated by men -- sexual comments in our streets, on the job sexism, inappropriate jokes in the workplace --
however, we have to deal right now with the idea that this was a sexist attack on HRC. Was it?

We also heard today that some males were calling out to Hillary: "Iron my shirts" ---
There's no doubt that was a sexist attack; I hope her campaign had a rapid and strong response to it?

I happen to be someone who IS familiar with the history you are discussing ---

However, the issue right now is was this a sexist attack on HRC and what is the evidence for it?

[Matariki]

154. Yes. Everything you said, MassDemm

In fact, I'm getting so damned annoyed that I'm on the verge of voting for Clinton in the primaries. Perhaps out of spite. I'm not happy with her record on Iraq or her health care proposal, but otherwise her voting record is very good. She also projects more substance than the other two top candidates, imo.

[cooolandrew]

155. I feel for her tbe process of camaigning is tough. Hope she gets some good rest when this is done.

[defendandprotect]

156. Evidently, I didn't read this in total and I very strongly disagree with it ---

Over and again we have emotional reactions to criticism of candidates --- !!!

If there is "sexism" involved and this is truly a "sexist" attack on HRC from media and/or from
DU'ers, then let's deal with it. Let's see some evidence of that first, however!

I've yet to see the tape of what happened ---
How about posting a link to it --- ???

If anyone has called HRC a "bitch" in their threads, then I think the mods can take care of it--
call it to their attention . . . please!

Meanwhile, I am a woman --- which is why I expect more from women than we are getting from HRC.

As an aside . . .
We now have a thread running re Chelsea Clinton which seems to be a challenge to those who stand
against HRC on political issues; perhaps suggesting that the mother of such a lovely girl should be president? What is it saying?

[Little Star]

158. Please see post # 153 and some others up thread for the sexist remarks. I am tired

and I am going to bed, so I don't want to have to type in everything again.

[defendandprotect]

168. I replied to #153 in my #163 . . . good night -- hope tomorrow is a better day for everyone!

[Diclotican]

166. MassDemm

MassDemm

I am not sure what the thing is about. But Hillary Clinton have been treating as some wherry bad people, specially when she decided to go into the race for presidency

I don't know allot of Hillary, but I do believe she is a good candidate for the US presidency, and I do believe she would be a good president.. Even that I don't like some of she's more haukely expressions, but it maybe be just campaign talk.. And a Another Person would be sweared in in 2009. I do believe that Ms Clinton would be a president who managed to undo allot of harm what the current administration have been doing to US the last 8 year, anyhow you see it..

I don't know how would win the presidency, and be the next president in US. But I do, for the peace of the world it would be a decent, honest and not a war-monger like mr Bush, who have doing harm to US, and endangered the whole world with his "war against terror" policy. He is maybe one of the most dangerous man in the world today. With the person like Kim in North Korea, and the Irani President.. Mr Bush scare the hell out of me, with his uneducated stupidity, and blatant arrogance for what his office is all about.. He is like a child who are not used be denied his wises, and now when he had the power, want to do harm to the "others" who had denied he his time in the sun..

As many much more capable people have saying, when even Nixon, who maybe was not the best president in US are been looked as a better president, then it is to late to do something. Mr Bush have destroyed his memory. And would be remembered as one of the worst, absolutely worst president in our time.. He is rock bottom.. But he is still in power... And as his ship is sinking he may find something REALLY dangerous to do, to be remembered as a "great war president" As attaching Iran, or even blow up some military or civilian installation in the Gulf..Just to give the next president a blue aye right before the next president are been sworen in?.. Specially if it is a Democratic president...

I can not wote in US election anyway.. But if I had, Hillary Clinton would be one of the favorites.. Together with Edwards, or Obama..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad English,not my native language

[David Zephyr]

169. I'm with you.

I've posted on this also. Your sentiments are similar to mine.

I'm not supporting her either, but the sexist comments also raise my dander.

DZ

[Triana]

170. K & R

I'm not a Hillary supporter either. But I believe I've pretty well stuck to criticizing her policies, what I think were bad choices of things for her to say during debates, other bad choices she's made (um, can you say James Carville?), where her money comes from - same stuff I'd criticize any candidate for.

Now, the muckety-muck about her 'crying' - I've avoided those threads. Never read them, didn't watch the video and won't. Because it's petty, stupid, and sexist. I've seen some pretty shocking Hillary threads here myself.

I don't think she can win or will win the nom. I hope she doesn't because I don't she can win in the GE (I think the same of Obama). If either of them do win or are the nom, I will support them (esp. considering the alternative).

But man, some of the Hillary threads are really over the top. Someone even posted that she gets 'special breaks' or a 'free ride' because she's a women.

That's a load of bunk. If anything, it's quite the contrary. The deck has been stacked against her from Day 1 because of BILL, and because she's a woman - she's under uber-scrutiny and has to walk a humanly-impossible tightrope as a candidate.

I respect her. I admire her for being able to accomplish what she has in the face of all this. I don't think she should be president - but for reasons which have naught to do with her sex.

[wiley]

171. I have been saying this for years now on this DU

At first I blamed it on Freepers and paid campaign staffers. Haven't heard much about the millions of women in Africa who get raped or dismembered in Darfur here either. Ot the fact that women get raped, beaten and mutilatedd in the US probably as much in the US as any country progressives rale against.

[MrSlayer]

172. I don't see her being called a bitch.

I would call someone out on that but shrill is fair to describe a person's tone, if they are being shrill. The crying thing is a cheap shot but mostly I've seen people saying she was faking it more so than she was being "a sissy girl" or whatever.

There is a lot of really thin skin around here though. Senator Clinton is tougher than many of those who post on this site. She plays real hardball with the best of them.

[boston bean]

173. First off, she did NOT cry. She may have gotten choked up.

But I didn't see her crying.

Secondly, the bitch references are usually removed and you have to see them fairly on before they are alerted on.

Thirdly, men say women cry to get their way, she has been called shrill, I don't see men being called that. If you can't see the sexism in that it is very sad. And their are many more that are more hidden. But what makes this even more sad is the people doing this are saying they have a right to their opinion and it isn't sexist. It is an opinion to say you do not like Hillary. It is sexist to call her a bitch or use any other negative analogy that women hear and have to live with every day as opinion.

[LWolf]

178. I'm not a Hillary supporter, either.

And I have no idea what you are talking about. As a woman, I can assure you that my differences with HRC have nothing to do with sexism. They are real and compelling.

And that's what they are: differences. I don't HATE her, or anyone else.

I also don't really care if you are getting "really pissed off." If there are threads, comments, and opinions about HRC that are pissing you off, I would suggest that, for your own piece of mind, you don't read them.

After all, the quickest way to sink a thread is to LET it.

You don't need to point out all the threads and posts to me that you are "pissed off" about; I wouldn't read them anyway.

I skip them because HRC is not interesting enough, or important enough to me to warrant spending my time on them. It's possible that there would be fewer threads attacking HRC here at DU if the minority of people who support her nomination wouldn't have been pushing her as "inevitable" at the majority who don't want to see her become the nominee. That sort of thing pisses people off, and they tend to push back. I think THAT is what you are probably seeing.

Just my 2 cents, though.

[MedleyMisty]

180. Umm - I think you missed the point

It's entirely possible to not support Clinton (which, by the way, notice how she's usually referred to with her first name) and to criticize her and not be sexist. That's not what the OP was about at all. Hell, I certainly wouldn't vote for her if NC's primary mattered at all. The only one I'd think of voting for is Kucinich. It hurts to not be able to really support the first female with a serious chance, but hey.

There is a big huge freaking difference between "I have problems with her IWR vote." and "She's hysterical and over-emotional and can't be president because she'll get all hormonal and crazy once a month."

It's all in the phrasing and the language and the feeling and intent and thinking behind the criticism. And personally I think it's important to always stand up and confront sexism.

[LWolf]

230. I didn't miss the point.

I just do my best not to give anything like your second example any weight. I generally don't read them, and if I do, I don't respond. The fewer responses, the faster they sink.

I guess I just don't automatically expect a better quality response from everyone here just because it's DU, or just because most are Democrats.

I agree with your point about the phrasing, the language, etc.. It's also true, though, that early in the game a few, and then more, HRC supporters began labeling EVERY disagreement as "hate." Now it's hard to take accusations of hatefulness seriously. The boy who cried wolf syndrome, I guess.

It does bother me that I can't offer support to the first woman candidate for president. :(

That doesn't mean that I hate her, and I don't support hate tactics on anyone's part. I'd just rather sink them than do battle, which inevitably kicks it onto the front page of the forum.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

179. Yes, MassDemm. It's been frustrating, especially if one is reading an informative thread

discussing the pros and cons of her stands/votes on issues, and all of sudden here come the posts which describe her as hysterical/shrill/cackling/a witch/throwing dishes in the Oval Office/"Bush with tits" (which was part of Greatest page "rant")/weeping/sobbing/too emotional or too cold and for those looking for an example, here's a quick one from a poster who swears up and down that he/she is not sexist:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2606105#2611518

BTW, this is one of many.

I've said this several times. Women know it when they see it, especially those of us who have been in the workforce for a while.

It can be subtle, sounding like teasing, but it's clear to the recipient that whatever she is saying or doing is discounted through the speaker's misogynistic filter, the "don't worry your pretty little head about that" tripe to which we're subjected by men who don't like having smart,strong women as colleagues.

And, again I thank the men here and in my life, who won't put up with this and call it out. :loveya: MKJ


and on edit, K and R! :kick:

[robbedvoter]

182. I am with you - all the way. EU shows it's red ass

[Catherine Vincent]

183. Kick and recommended!

:kick:

[shireen]

184. i've been pretty disappointed by some of the reactions on DU too

They're either cynical or insensitive or both. either way, they don't have a right to judge her based on just a short video clip.

[krabigirl]

186. I totally agree with you.

[truebrit71]

187. Oh lighten up Francis....

..any criticism of HRC is almost automatically sexist according to your massive sweeping generalisations...

"hidden sexism"....give me a break...if that's the standard knee-jerk response to expect going forward then she's ALREADY lost...

This has almost NOTHING to do with her gender and EVERYTHING to do with her demeanour and her character...if you can't tell the difference between the two then I suggest it is YOU that has the problem..

And as a MAN let me say that I am sick and fucking tired of being accused of sexism by female posters because I had the unmitigated gall to criticise their queen...

If she can't stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen...(oh darn it...that was "sexist" too...I mentioned kitchen and a female in the same sentence....:eyes:)

[EnviroBat]

188. WooHoooo!

POW! Right in the kisser...

:applause:

[redqueen]

189. Let me ask you a few questions...

did you notice any of the same kind of things that are being said now about Hillary for getting choked up... did you notice any of that being said about any of the many, many male politiicans who have gotten choked up on camera?

Demeanor and character, huh... do you say the same about ALL male politicians who have gotten choked up on camera?

[redqueen]

190. Sexism is everywhere... yes, even 'liberal' message boards.

The MANY double-standards are so deeply-ingrained that it will take generations to get rid of it... and that's only if we actually try.

At this point, hardly any are actually trying... too focused on sexuality or money.

[truebrit71]

191. Yeah, and sex in marriage is "legalized rape" right?

Gimme a fuggin break...:eyes:

BTW the gunners suck... ;-)

[redqueen]

192. Um, no.

Would you mind answering the questions in my post to you?

Yeah, top of the league... they suck so hard!

Who do you support, Utd?

[truebrit71]

193. Male politicians getting choked up doesn't enter into the equation...

..they aren't cynically playing the gender card...

Who do I support? The current FA Cup holders....

[redqueen]

194. Oh so when men do it it's automatically genuine, in your opinion?

What do you think about Drogba leaving... think your team will make a bid for Berbatov?

[truebrit71]

198. Of course. Men are always genuine.

Drogba's leaving? Shit...I hadn't heard that...He just came back from injury...

That would be a big blow if he left because he is such a dynamic presence on the pitch...

Your new guy DaSilva has quite the touch though, no? His goal this past weekend in the FA Cup was a thing of beauty...

[redqueen]

204. Ok now you're just being factious...

:rofl:

Yup... Drogba's ready to leave if he gets a good offer. Seems like some fans aren't so sad to see him go, either.

And yes... I'm VERY happy with Eduardo's recent performance. :D

[truebrit71]

206. Shaping up to be a very interesting season...

..both in the Primaries and the EPL!!!

[redqueen]

207. Indeed!

:toast:

[truebrit71]

209. Right back at ya!!

:toast:

[Quantess]

197. Maybe you could learn some critical thinking skills as applied to arguments.

http://www.drury.edu/ess/critthink.html

When you get good at this, you'll stop making histrionic responses such as yours, because you'll realize that a lot of your audience sees through your fallacious argument.

[truebrit71]

199. What a bunch of cobblers...

..now sod off and make me a turkey pot pie..

;-)

[Quantess]

201. That link wasn't just for you....

A lot of people do the same stunts, on every imaginable topic! IMO, it makes arguing tiresome when people pull out their knee-jerk reactions. Go ahead and look at the link, everyone.

BTW, my opinion on the Hillary Clinton is-it-sexism issue, is that some of it is, some of it isn't.

[truebrit71]

203. That's my point, but I am sick and tired of the "sexist" card being played in every single thread..

...that's critical of HRC...

[redqueen]

205. You ain't the only one... (nt)

[snooper2]

196. You shouldn't let one little discussion board

out of the billions on the Internets get you that upset.....

Nothing matters till you get to put your one little vote in the ballot box

[B Calm]

202. I don't give a rats ass that Hillary is a woman. She's not the right person

for the JOB!

[question everything]

208. And the cackle, you forgot the cackle

k&r

[Nate_in_Iowa]

210. pissing contest much?

different strokes for different folks.

[BobTheSubgenius]

213. Remember Ed Muskie?

Reports, bogus or not, that he shed tears didn't do much for his campaign, either.

I'm of two minds about that, however. (Sadly, I find Devil's advocate a pretty easy role to adopt.) I have no such trouble with the overarching topic, though, and if posts (I haven't had time to search out and read) are even tinged with sexism, a mea culpa or two should be offered.

Back to Muskie, though. Perhaps that was another face of sexism - that it would somehow have been all right if he had been female? Or, if that wasn't the exact subtext, even *less* acceptable because of his gender? Most likely, the pernicious hand of whoever played Lee Atwater or Karl Rove's role for the GOP at that time was at the helm, at least nudging it in the chosen direction.

[mckara]

215. Lighten up Francis!

n/t

[B Calm]

220. Francis = MALE Frances = FEMALE

[Danger Mouse]

216. I would say the sexism in some is pretty blatant.

However, there are some Duer's who say that not supporting Hillary = sexism.
That's simply not true.
Some Hillary haters are sexist...but not all.

[stickernation]

219. a global amnesty for all DU'ers

Listen folks, this community is TOO IMPORTANT to be ripped to shreds right now.

I can hear Karl Rove cackling off in the distance.

Everybody is cool for JUST PARTICIPATING HERE.

I know people are saying some shit, and I am going to chalk it ALL up to a bunch of us being Internet Newbies Compared To Ancient WELL-Participating Me Who Has Been On The 'Net Since Before Al Gore Was Vice President.

Everybody flaming everybody ? Seen it before and I just want it NOT to happen here, where we NEED to EVOLVE into UNITY by JULY at the LATEST !!!!!!

STOP PLEASING KARL ROVE. You think about that. Next time you post, think - "is Karl Rove cackling at me?"

Thank you everyone, AND LOTS OF UNDYING LOVE FOR ALL OF YOU.

[Anais_98]

228. Yes, we should discuss this in a civil manner

However, I do agree there are some MAJOR problems with this board. I, myself, have noticed the sexism that other people have referred to ie. namecalling.
I have also noticed a really subtle brand of sexism that seems to go largely unchallenged. I find it disturbing that so many people say they dislike/hate HRC because she is cold, calculating and (gasp!) ambitious. While it's fine to dislike her because of her policies, lord knows I do, it is sexist to hate a woman because she embodies certain male traits women are not supposed to have. I have never heard a male candidate, past or present, being so vehemently criticized for being calculating and ambitious (when in reality ALL candidates, male and female, must be ambitious and calculating if they are to win a position of such power).

Most of the time a man who shows his ambitious and manipulative side will not even be noticed let alone criticized, yet a woman who does the same, as Steinem says, can expect to be accused of being a b***h

[KoKo]

229. Women shouldn't be "joined at the hip with Hillary." There are many heroes and she's not one....

she was a participant...

I don't know where you get off trashing DU Females for not supporting Hillary as if she is Gloria Steinem or something! :shrug: