"my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman." - Obama

[Bluebear]

...So I wasn't looking forward to reading the stack of papers about same sex marriage. I made it through most of them and got to the very last one. She was supporting gay marriage, so I thought it would be less painful than reading the homophobic screeds. This student had researched Barack Obama's position on same-sex marriage. She quoted him: "In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, 'I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.'"

I assumed my student got her research wrong; I hoped my student got her research wrong . . .

Oh Barack.

I can manage to overlook a stated opposition to legalizing gay marriage. It doesn't make me happy, but I can accept that as a necessary political platform for a presidential candidate. As for using a justification of Christianity for the reason to limit marriage to heterosexual relationships? Well, in most cases, I could manage to shrug it off. People twist Jesus Christ's message in a lot of ways. I don't pretend to understand all of the confusing Protestant interpretations of the Bible. If I read that quote from a Methodist or a Baptist, I would probably just shake my head and mutter something about the true meaning of Christianity.

Senator Obama, however, is not just any kind of Christian. Senator Obama doesn't belong to one of those other churches whose missions I don't understand. Nope. He is my kind of Christian, a Congregationalist. He belongs to the UCC, the same denomination that I was raised in. He belongs to a church that made a nationwide effort to support the rights of homosexuals to marry. Not only does the UCC encourage same-sex marriage within their church, but they have issued actual literature that encourages legalizing same-sex marriage at the federal level.

Unlike many people, Senator Obama didn't stumble into just any church that would take him. He searched and pondered. He chose. I've read some of his views on religion that have spoken to me personally. His thoughtful approach to religion has been one of the things I admire about him. This is reprehensible. Disagree with the legal platform if you must, Senator, but don't blame your endorsement of discrimination on the Jesus Christ my family worships. Shame on you.

http://pilgrimsole.blogspot.com/2007/12/god-is-still-speaking.html

[FredScuttle]

1. The Audacity of Audacity

K&R

[K8-EEE]

28. OK that was funny.......

SPEW! Good one, LOL....

[ruggerson]

2. You're partisan!

You're trying to "ruin Obama's message of hope."

[loveangelc]

3. yeah, its too bad every candidate in the race holds the same position with the exception of

kucinich and gravel, isnt it?

[Bluebear]

7. No other candidate in the race sponsored anti-gay concerts

[loveangelc]

18. anit gay concert? what concert did obama sponsor that was set up for the exact purpose of being

anti gay? because donnie mcclurking sings at an event does not make the event anti gay.

[Bluebear]

23. Donnie McClurkin did not just "sing at an event" and you know it. Love angel.

[NMMNG]

4. But Obama is best on gay rights!

Oh, wait...never mind.

[rocktivity]

5. It's your CONSTITUTIONAL beliefs that are relevant here.

And if you truly DO believe in the Constitution, you believe that in America, ALL religions are created equal, and therefore religious doctrine cannot and should not dictate American rule of law.

:headbang:
rocknation

[BattyDem]

10. Exactly!

Why should a whole group of people be denied equal rights because of his (or anyone's) religious beliefs? :grr: :eyes:

I wish the Dems would stop catering to the far-right because they will never get those votes anyway. Stand up for the Constitution!

[roguevalley]

29. I remember when his driver's license would bear words about his

race. People believed assiduously once, partly based on their religion that races shouldn't mix. His parents would have been hung. How can he, the product of hope essentially be this way? And to blame it on God, that is not acceptable. That is Huckabee and the rest speaking.

[uppityperson]

11. Does that mean that personally someone can be against something, but be ok since it's legal?

Not meaning any particular person, truly, but in general. "my religion says.... but it is legal and constitutional so I accept it and won't try to impose my view on everyone"? You got me thinking about personal beliefs vs imposing them on everyone legally.

[rocktivity]

16. Be OK as a person? Sure.

And anyone who believes that something SHOULDN'T be legal is free to try to get other people to agree--including politicians--as long as it wouldn't be CONSTITUTIONALLY illegal!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Alexander]

6. Hillary and Edwards will offer gay marriage, right? Oh wait...

Nope.

[Bluebear]

9. This isn't about them, it's about "hopeful, uniting" Obama.

[Bicoastal]

14. Waaaaaait a second...

...you're saying that Hillary and Edwards haven't tried to pitch themselves as "hopeful" and "uniting" as well?

[Bluebear]

15. 'The Audacity of Hope' is kind of a brand name if you ask me

[Windy]

19. Obama is for repealing DOMA... defense of marriage act

and Hillary is not....

he is for civil unions with full rights.

Marriage is a religious institution. Civil ceremonies before judges are performed every day in this country between men and woman. I'm all for them being legally performed between same sex couples.
They need full rights. The word marriage is inconsequential to the guarantee of full legal rights to property, etc in this country.

I worked ith AIDS patients over the years as a respiratory therapist. I saw many gay men die from AIDS when it was first rearing its ugly head in the 80's. Partners were excluded from being with their loved ones by the terminal ill patient's family.
I also witnessed fights on hospital floors over a terminally ill man's possessions and witnessed family members arguing in public and in front of everyone on the floor that a partner needed to move out of the house he had co-habited in for years and leave all belongings, i.e. furniture etc...

Civil unions with full civil rights will prevent these horrible injustices.

Obama is for securing those rights. Don't play semantics with a word that has its roots in religion.

[Bluebear]

21. Don't fret . . .

Hillary absolutely does not have my vote.

And bless you for your important work in health care.

[JBear]

26. WRONG!

Marriage is not just a religious institution. It is most certainly a civil institution as well. If it were not, we would not have a different class of benefits, taxes, medical care etc. for "single" people versus married people. The difference between "marriage" and "civil union" is immense. The word "marriage" was in fact the test of full faith and credit (interracial couple not being "married" once they moved to Virginia I believe). Civil unions do not exist for anyone in most states, so how do we apply full faith and credit?

The fact that you can participate in this civil institution by either a civil or religious ceremony is NOT a defining difference. It is the legal wrangling that will continue until you call it what it is.

This is not just a red herring, it IS the pink elephant in the room!

Now back to your regularly scheduled rant!

:bounce:

[Windy]

27. You're wrong! The civil unions that would be enacted would give full rights to domestic partners

the new laws would be much different than those in place in the past.

[salin]

8. I don't mean to be contrary... as I only have one point of clarification to add...

I am UCC. The congregationalist nature of the UCC is that there is a national platform - and that each individual church congregation determines which parts of that platform it accepts. It isn't uniform or binding - which is probably how it was able to reach consensus in a way that other mainline churches that have more binding positions have been able to do. It is very possible that it is not part of that congregation's platform.

That does not change the main points of the post, nor the sentiments raised. Just a clarification. I still think it is a political platitude using "my faith" dictates ones stand on "the sanctity of marriage" to find a nice way of saying "I do not think this is important enough to lose potential votes over..."

[ruggerson]

25. Do you know where his congregation stands on it?

I think it's odd that he is to the right of the national UCC position. And then talks about his "faith" as the reason.

[Bjorn Against]

12. So if another religion believes gay marriage is acceptable then he will honor their marriages?

Or does he believe his religion should be placed on a pedestal above other religions? I seemed to think there was a separation of church and state in this country and that our government was not supposed to set policy on the basis of a particular religious beliefs, while rejecting other religious beliefs.

[killbotfactory]

17. From what I've read

It seems to me he wants the religious institution of marriage, and the civil institution of marriage, to become disentangled.

BTW, here is a transcript of the Human Rights Campaign forum where all the candidates were asked about this.

SOLMONESE: Senator, thank you so much for joining us. It's a real honor to have you here with us tonight. And thank you for being the first to accept our invitation. You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same sex marriage, and so my question is what place does the church have in government-sanctioned civil marriages?

OBAMA: Well, it is my strong belief that the government has to treat all citizens equally. I come from that, in part, out of personal experience. When you're a black guy named Barack Obama, you know what it's like to be on the outside. And so my concern is continually to make sure that the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for all people. That's why I opposed DOMA in 2006 when I ran for the United States Senate.

(APPLAUSE)

That's why I am a strong supporter not of a weak version of civil unions, but of a strong version, in which the rights that are conferred at the federal level to persons who are part of a same sex union are compatible. Now, as a consequence, I don't think that the church should be making these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex couples.

My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other denominations may make a different decision. And obviously, part of keeping a separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches have the right to exercise their freedom of religion.

But when it comes to federal rights, the over 1,100 rights that right now are not being given to same sex couples, I think that's unacceptable, and as president of the United States, I'm going to fight hard to make sure that those rights are available.

(APPLAUSE)

SOLMONESE: So to follow up on your point about the state issue, if you were back in the Illinois legislature where you served and the issue of civil marriage came before you, how would you vote on that?

OBAMA: Well, my view is that we should try to disentangle what has historically been the issue of the word "marriage," which has religious connotations to some people, from the civil rights that are given to couples in terms of hospital visitation, in terms of whether or not they can transfer property or any of the other -- Social Security benefits and so forth.

So it depends on how the bill would have come up. I would have supported and would continue to support a civil union that provides all the benefits that are available for a legally sanctioned marriage. And it is then, as I said, up to religious denominations to make a determination as to whether they want to recognize that as a marriage or not.

SOLMONESE: But on the grounds of civil marriage, can you see to our community where that comes across as sounding separate, but equal?

OBAMA: Well, look, when my parents got married in 1960 or '61, it would have been illegal for them to be married in a number of states in the South. So obviously, this is something that I understand intimately. It's something that I care about.
But I would also say this, that if I were advising the civil rights movement back in 1961 about its approach to civil rights, I would have probably said it's less important that we focus on an anti- miscegenation law than we focus on a voting rights law and a nondiscrimination employment law and all the legal rights that are conferred by the state.

Now, it's not for me to suggest that you shouldn't be troubled by these issues. I understand that, and I'm sympathetic to it. But my job as president is going to be to make sure that the legal rights that have consequences on a day-to-day basis for loving same sex couples all across the country, that those rights are recognized and enforced by my White House and by my Justice Department.

http://www.2008electionprocon.org/pdf/Dem20070809.pdf

[NoBorders]

13. Just like Edwards then n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. You teach your students to quote out of context? Tsk tsk

Next sentence, please?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. The state isn't supposed to "sanctify" anything according to the 1st Amendment.

My wife and I were married before a Protestant chaplain at the hospital she worked in. We did so just because it was convenient and needed to legalize the marriage. My wife, at the time, was a practicing Catholic, I was, and remain an Agnostic. It was not recognized by the church.

Fortunately, she switched to UMC, and they don't give a rip about such silliness.

[Milo_Bloom]

24. This is the one thing keeping me from fully supporting Obama.

However, I believe unlike Edwards, Obama has said in previous debates that he would expect the federal government to recognize civil unions; where Edwards has left it as more of a "state's rights" issue.