Clinton Surrogate Calls Obama "Boy"

[SoDesuKa]

Longtime Hillary friend and supporter Ellen Chesler refers to Barack Obama as a "boy" in an interview with Amy Goodman. Call it a slip of the tongue if you will, but it's an important slip of the tongue. Hear her say it at 3:05 into the interview.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/4/after_iowa_a_roundtable_discussion_on

[superduperfarleft]

1. Obama's candidacy sure has brought out the best in all of us. n/t

[butterfly77]

18. Just wait and see what the CONs will do.

[superduperfarleft]

29. I expect it from them. It's even more disgusting coming from our side. n/t

[xultar]

2. That's not racist. But i knew all you white Obama supporters would be sensitive.

:rofl: That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for.

No one will ever be able to say he's handsome, good @ sports, or anything because you'll be accusing them of racist remarks.

I think white folks will be much more hyperactive about it than black folks.

BUHWAWAWAWAWA!

[Bluebear]

3. Fine, white folks have to work on being less sensitive to race issues so you won't laugh at them.

Lesson clear.

[xultar]

10. Nope I want you to be. I'm not laughing @ you...I'm lauging @ the circumstance...

I find it refreshing that whites are now going to have to start looking and determining if their black candidate was being slighted.

This is as close as you are going to get to experiencing what I go through all day. You'll figure out that you'll go mad being so sensitive and you'll have to determine intent instead of just wanting to point out every little thing.

I am also laughing because if Obama hadn't been the IA winner or a candidate vying for the nom...no one here would give a stinking pile.

[hlthe2b]

5. Do you mean we can acknowledge that Obama was once a boy?

SHOCK.... Where's my defibrillator! LOL

[xultar]

12. you can but you'll get accused of being a racist by other whites not blacks...

[salin]

9. it has been interesting how many threads today have given

live examples of what you wrote about last night/this morning. On the one hand, I think some consciences will be raised in a way that wouldn't be likely with out this campaign, but on the other hand it is also going to bring out front and center some of the uglier sides of the nature of some of our DUers. I do hope (and think) there will be more positive in the balance.

[xultar]

16. Everytime some one says the word boy, and Obama in a sentence people will go wild.

When they say he's of muslim heritage...they'll cry foul.
If someone says he's good at sports they'll be called a troll.
If someone says he's a great orator they'll go ballistic.
If they say he loves his wife they'll comment on the fact that blacks have families too...

It's gonna be cute.

[salin]

24. Its going to be quite a ride.

[Kahuna]

57. Don't know about that Xultar. I came up in the day when calling

a black man a boy would get one's feeling hurt. Severely. Probably the younger generation doesn't see it that way. But there is the boomer segment who would definitely bristle at that.

[xultar]

4. Here is the quote...read it before spouting off...

Well, let’s put all of this a little bit in perspective. The big winner last night in Iowa was the Democratic Party, where two-and-a-half times the number of Republicans voted, and almost 60% more Democrats and independents caucused for the Democrats as four years ago. That’s an extraordinary statement that the treacherous reign of Bush and Cheney is over in this country and that Democrats and independents want change.

That said, Barack Obama placed first. He is the neighboring boy. He had a huge bump up in eastern Iowa on the border of Illinois in Springfield, where he served as a legislator. Hillary Clinton placed second. It was a tie for second. They split with 29.5% of the vote each. This is a tiny vote in Iowa. It’s first. It’s important. It sends a message. I think it sends a message to the Clinton campaign about need for greater clarity of message and an emphasis on the core values that Hillary Clinton represents and the extraordinary progressive record that she’s had in Congress as a senator from New York and as a First Lady.

I think the great desire in this country is to return to Democratic leadership, years that the Clintons themselves represented, you know, of strong economic growth, greater equality in this country between rich and poor, between black and white, between men and women, a Supreme Court that protects our rights from intrusion of the government, that gets rid of this astonishing prohibition on the rights of prisoners and the rights of people, and also a government that proactively, you know, stands for a strong role in meeting people’s needs here at home and in addressing core problems of poverty and health and human security in the world abroad.

Hillary Clinton goes now into her neighboring state in New Hampshire, a great strength, and into big states where she has great strength. It’s now, I think, a two-person race in the Democratic Party. Iowa has winnowed it down. We had 60% , you know, voting for Clinton and Edwards together. We’ll have to see how those Edwards supporters in the rest of the country, if there are any left—you know, it’s now going to be a two-person race, and we’ll see what happens. I’m confident that Senator Clinton is going to be a strong contender moving forward and that she’s ready to lead, as she said last night.

[salin]

14. not as bad as the OP stated

but not a common phrase "neighboring boy" though the speaker does go on to continue the "neighboring" theme.

[xultar]

19. Exactly. Not nearly as bad. They'll ask though why not say Hillary is the

neighboring girl instead of in her neighboring state. They will question all the little tiny things people say. So much the media won't want to talk about him fearing a racial charge.

They'll question so much their heads will spin off.

[salin]

26. or why not refer to him as a neighboring son

a more familiar phrasing. My point being there are many angles to begin wondering about. I think it will be a quite unique experience for many. I hope that would be so in a transformational way - but sadly that may only be the case for those deep-in to the campaign those not so invested... not so sure.

[xultar]

32. See if she had said it about a white man...no one would have thought boy is racist...would they.

You are going to start nit picking every little phrase. You are going to start questioning every little thing. You are going to wonder why not one phrase rather than another... everything will seem racist to you.

I love it.

I'm black it wasn't racist to me. Or are you more on key of what is racist than I am? I love that you will get more angry when people say shit about Obama than you will ifthey had said the same phrase about a guy living down the street from me.

Before yesterday you wouldn't have questioned it a bit. But today...you are. It's a new world.

[salin]

38. Its been my world for a long time...

not as you live it, I am white, but have lived and/or worked in predominantly black communities for a lot of years. My first awakenings were in the time of Rodney King - where I already understood the 'driving while black' phenonomon as having known many to whom this had happened - what was uncomfortable to me was having to continually explain things to my white friends. By the time of the OJ trial resolution - I realized I was in a weird space in terms of conscience - there is no way I could understand on a day by day basis what is means to be black in this country, but on the other hand through my work, personal life and where I lived, I certainly understood and saw and reacted to a whole lot more than most white people - and at times (like the OJ resolution) I felt sort of like an island alone per perspective. Like there was the time I was working with a bunch of teachers who wanted to use professional development dollars to buy copies of... wait for it... The Bell Curve. This district had completely tracked by race its middle school "accelerated programs" and when trying to get out from a decades long deseg court order they were told they had to integrate the classes and could not track in middle school as they were affectively deciding in fifth grade (when students were recommended to the accelerated classes for sixth grade) who was going to be likely to be able to go to college. The teachers wanted to get and discuss the book - in some wierd way to justify that their beliefs were right and the court order was wrong. UGLY. And, of course that idea was quashed (and the book was discredited methodologically and ideologically within months of its release).

Sorry for going on and on. Not trying to say that I am all enlightened (ha! I know better than that!) but that I have gone through various stages of having the white eyes opened to how prevalent racism is around us - and have gone through the very questioning of what to say phase that you describe.

I found your thread this morning very interesting. I hadn't really thought about that dynamic - but not only did I see your point right away (as I said - I have kind of lived it), and have found it interesting to see how quickly the dynamic was appearing all over the boards. it probably has been doing so for months - but I generally am not on the boards very much (this week being an exception.)

[xultar]

40. Conyers. My FAVORITE. I love your choice of avatar.

[salin]

44. Thanks!

He was the congressman that represented where I worked in Detroit more than a few years ago. He is Great!

[salin]

47. check out below

a forementioned "list" of things not to say is referenced. You are calling things spot on!

Look at post #45

[SoDesuKa]

49. Presumption of Innocence

I've been presuming that Ellen Chesler committed a gaffe. However, I'm open to the idea that it was not a gaffe. The word "boy" might be like the cross in Huckabee's Christmas ad - it's there but you're not supposed to think of it that way.

Would Hillary be that low down and dirty to do something like that? That's a question.

[Terran]

35. I think she meant to say

"neighbor boy", which is a common-enough phrase. And certainly not in any way demeaning to him.

"Boy" would mostly only be insulting if someone addressed him directly and in person by it.

[rodeodance]

17. thanks. but those who want to grab at anything will.

[originalpckelly]

6. I think she meant it as "the boy next door".

Not, "Boy, get to the back of the bus."

[originalpckelly]

13. She does sound like a snotty rich broad.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :P

[lapfog_1]

15. Sure, that's all good then...

:sarcasm:

maybe not racist, just sexist and belittling.

[originalpckelly]

20. What? Sexist?

I could see the racial thing, because that's still used in some parts of the nation to put down black men, but come on, sexist? I'm glad I'm not supporting any one candidate, I don't have to worry about this bullshit.

[lapfog_1]

33. Obama is 46... hardly a "boy" anymore.

And yes, it's sexist. Just as if I (I'm a man, over 50) called a 46 year old woman a "girl" or "little lady" or (insert your favorite pejorative here).

[xultar]

41. I say that my friend Lise is my Girl. Hillary is my girl. Elizabeth Ewards is My Girl.

So is Elizabeth Kucinich. Pelosi and Boxer are My Girls too. Oh and I don't wanna forget. My mom. whom I call Hoochie Mama...and her sisters. They are my girls too.

I'm also my Mama's Girl.

Snap out of it.

[desi]

7. Didn't Hillary call Tasini a girl?

:rofl:

[lapfog_1]

8. Here is the quote in context (which, in my mind, doesn't help her all that much)

"That said, Barack Obama placed first. He is the neighboring boy. He had a huge bump up in eastern Iowa on the border of Illinois in Springfield, where he served as a legislator. Hillary Clinton placed second. It was a tie for second. They split with 29.5% of the vote each. This is a tiny vote in Iowa. It’s first. It’s important. It sends a message. I think it sends a message to the Clinton campaign about need for greater clarity of message and an emphasis on the core values that Hillary Clinton represents and the extraordinary progressive record that she’s had in Congress as a senator from New York and as a First Lady."

"neighboring boy"? (what kind of figure of speech is this???)

"extraordinary progressive record"? (ummm, yeah, about that)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Yikes.

I was expecting somebody to make some racist gaffes, but not this soon.

[xultar]

22. IA borders IL, but if she had said "the boy next door" you'd be bitching @ that too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Actually, no.

That's make more sense.

[lapfog_1]

The term she was alluding to is "favorite son"

which is a political term. But she couldn't use it because Barak isn't from Iowa. So she tried, in vain I believe, to belittle his win in Iowa by ascribing it to being the favorite son from a neighboring state. Unfortunately for her, Iowa is nothing at all like Chicago, and the analogy she was trying to make doesn't really hold.

And using the term "neighboring boy" to describe Obama, while probably not racist in the context, is still demeaning and worthy of criticism.

[xultar]

21. If she had said "the boy next door" you would have been equally as angry.

[lapfog_1]

43. Yeah, but for me it's not the racist thing that you've decided

is what upset all of us white liberals.

I'm "upset" for two reasons...

First, it's the argument that Obama won based on the fact that he is from a neighboring state. This is silly, Iowa and Illinois are really worlds apart.

Second, it's that she called a 46 year old man a "boy" (white/black/green doesn't matter to me, it's belittling and mean spirited).

And I'm not even an Obama supporter (I was leaning toward Biden, but I like almost all of our candidates).

[vireo]

36. I'm more shocked that she seems to think Springfield borders IA

[xultar]

23. I love it when white folks get more bent out of shape than a black person about

what they see as a racist comment.

[eShirl]

30. why?

[LanternWaste]

34. Most likely because more often than not...

Most likely because more often than not, we (white boys and girls) factor in racism only when it's advantageous or beneficial for an argument.

However, as a minority must factor racism into every single aspect of his/her life, I imagine it would be a bit bemusing (in a depressing kind of way) for a minority to hear white people complain about an inferred racist remark, especially when the cry of racism validates our positions/arguments.

But that's simply a guess on my part.

[xultar]

42. Your guess would be spot on. I couldn't have explained it as well as you did.

[xultar]

46. Someone says the word Boy in a sentence about Obama and white people get more

upset than black folks do...and you don't think that is funny as fuck?

[xultar]

25. HEY OP...why didn't you get angry about this...or is it because it was a GOPer

saying something REALLY racist. You'd rather beat on something marginal than something really racist...

CNN's Bennett: "Barack Hussein Obama ... has taught the black community you don't have to act like Jesse Jackson ... like Al Sharpton"

[Sanctified]

28. The comment did not sound racist to me.

I think if the same comment was made about any other candidate minus Hillary no one would have batted an eye. Some people just want to dig up racism where there is none in my opinion.

[SoDesuKa]

55. Nothing to See Here

The word boy in an adversarial context is extremely suspicious. Yes, you can say that if Chesler had referred to Edwards as a boy, no one would have noticed. But in this particular context, when the Clinton team is smarting from the humiliation of finishing in third place, that word may have been chosen deliberately. Just sayin'.

[JI7]

31. since they refer to Hillary as their girl i don't think it was meant to demean

[xultar]

39. Please say that louder so you can get over the volume level of the idiots.

[Karenina]

53. You called it Xultar! Welcome to OUR world!!!

You SO FUCKIN' CALLED IT!!! :rofl::yourock::rofl:

[NYCGirl]

37. In context, your claim is really rather silly. NT

[SoDesuKa]

45. Not Silly at All

Hillary is said to be in total control of her campaign - nothing gets said or done without her approval. She wouldn't even allow Chelsea to talk to a 9-year old reporter!

Ellen Chesler is smart enough not to use the word "boy" to refer to any black man. Even if she weren't, the Clinton PR team should have included that word on a list of things never to say. The fact that Chesler reached for a word to describe Obama and came up with boy is significant. It's a gaffe. Live with it.

[xultar]

48. CHELSEA DOESN'T TALK TO REPORTERS AS A PERSONAL RULE ON HER OWN.

Don't spread that bullshit.

I challenge you to find an interview Chelsea has EVAH given.

And I'm black. I know racism when I fuckin see it and it wasn't there. People on Hillary's team call her "Their Girl."

If it has been a black person that said it you wouldn't have said a word. If someone had said it about any old black man you wouldn't have given a shit.

You only give a shit because it was in reference to Obama. When you worry about what is said about all of us regardless of the stature of one call me.

[SoDesuKa]

51. If It Happens Again . . .

If somebody big in the Clinton campaign uses the word boy again in reference to Obama, will you still say it's innocent?

There's actually no reason to assume Chesler didn't know any better. Maybe that word was chosen deliberately to bait Obama's people to respond. Is Hillary that crafty and conniving? Nah, of course not.

[xultar]

52. You're white right? I can tell because some things are racist and some things aren't.

If someone says, "Obama that boy is good." Well, that isn't racist.

If someone says, "That Obama boy won." Well, that IS racist.

Not EVERYTHING is racist. Yes, you can use the word BOY in the name Obama in the same sentence...it would be stupid not to.

[SoDesuKa]

54. Prepared Statement

You're missing the point. Chesler used the word "boy" in an apparent gaffe but I'm suspicious of it. It wasn't a forced error. Chesler and the PR people had plenty of time to prepare for the Amy Goodman show, and the first sentence out of her mouth refers to Obama as a boy.

I have to entertain the possibility that this was a Clinton maneuver to draw attention to Obama's blackness. Obama's people certainly watched the interview, but did not comment on the B-word. They might have seen it as a dirty trick ... which it may have been.

It depends on what you think of Hillary. Is she down and dirty enough to plant the word "boy" into the discourse about Obama?

[PervezClinton]

50. Wow

Thanks for the link.

[Control-Z]

56. My 2 cents

without taking the time to study this entire thread or the link provided.

Obama, in his mid 40's, seems like a boy next to Edwards (in his mid 50's) and Clinton (at 60ish). He IS young. I think he lacks the practical experience and wisdom that, for everyone, comes with time. (I'd love to see him as VP for 8 years before taking on the presidency. I think he will make a great president one day - just not quite yet.)

So, maybe I'm naive, but boy seems like an honest description, if not terribly tactful. (As the baby of my family, I know how it can feel.) But it would have never occurred to me that it was racist (without this thread to alert me). I guess I will now have to take the time to look into the context in which it was used. I really hope it wasn't intended as anything but a reference to youth. I really wish we were past the need for this type of discussion.