Do you think you are being watched,..you may be..

[Stuart G]

If I was a Republican Thug..and wanted to know what intelligent, articulate Democrats were saying and thinking.. I would plug in here. I would not make a stink. I would just listen and report back the most important, clearest, most pointed and articulate ideas expressed.
Then talking points would be constructed to refute those ideas. The talking points had to be plausible as well articulate. Based on a fairness of view, those talking points would refute the progressive ideas in a way that would make sense you my conservative base.

..I don't know if this is true, but what do you say..if anything.
....(perhaps this will be thrown out, but we will see) Stuart G.

[Captain Angry]

1. I have no doubt that folks read the site that totally disagree.

Look at all of the people here who drive traffic to Republican sites, post threads from wacko sites, point to Drudge, etc. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me at all to have Republicans wandering this site to do the same thing.

There are definitely people here who work for campaigns of different candidates, and just spout the nastiest vile stuff. Some about their own candidate, just to make the other candidates look bad.

[Stuart G]

4. My idea is much worse than that.

I suspect that people deep within the Reupublic..thug party pay close attention here, and other progressive sites. Looking for ideas that may hurt them, before that can happen. I would not be surprised if very high ranking republicthugs check this out..

[lvx35]

2. Oh hell yeah! That's what DU is FOR. nt

[Stuart G]

5. No that is not what DU is for..

I just proposed this as an idea...Perhaps I am too cynical. But with this crowd, I doubt it. You can never be too cynical with them.

[lvx35]

6. Okay, I'll shut up now.

:)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. There is a whole site dedicated to following the great minds here

because they are too stupid to think for themselves.

[cutlassmama]

21. where is that?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

22. Not allowed to say here

as they are low-life scum. Check your PM box.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. They have no substantive ideas.

They just call people bad names. They are so intellectually devoid of ideas that they resort to being bullies and calling people "stupid" and "retarded" and "crazy" and "nuts".

They love to spy on us. They make all sorts of assumptions about the people at DU. They have no lives and no ideas. Truly pitiful and sad. Why aren't they all over in Iraq fighting that war they love so much? Killing those innocent infidel Muslims that did NOTHING to us in the 9/11 attacks, since they're stuck in the 14th Century?

Why don't they follow the words of their supposed role model, who said "Blessed are the Peacemakers"? The guy who said "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and "Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these, so also you did it unto Me."???

Why don't they? It's THEIR religion.

[cutlassmama]

28. Thank you very much

[Two Americas]

7. yes

I believe that this is a war of words, and that the Republicans are much more on top of that then we are. We tend to dismiss and discount the power of words.

And, yes, I do believe that every new way that any of us come up with to express things is very quickly and effectively countered with a new slogan or distraction that weakens the impact of what we are saying.

And, yes, the Republicans are well-organized, well-financed and well known to engage in a continuous orchestrated war of words all through society at all levels.

[Stuart G]

8. Two Americas...is correct......absolutely

..They, the thugs, will do anything to have the upper hand. In all arenas, even here. (right here)
.. If they know what the brightest think, (yes, some of the brightest and most articulate are in this forum).. they can counter, almost immediately, with plausible ideas, that appeal to their base, and might appeal to the middle. It goes to the heart of the discussion. Who will ultimately control the entire playing field. The thugs, are greedy beyond all respects, and do wish to change the bases of our democracy. Look at what they have achieved. It is stark class warfare at its absolute worst. And they want to win. No matter what..
..Consequently, we cannot underestimate their resourcefulness and creativity.

[lvx35]

9. But we can use their weaknesses.

The question is to determine what traits separate them from us and exploit them. For instance, do Dems think more for themselves while Republicans have a herd mentality? Then comments made here of the form "everybody is thinking X" will be unlikely to motivate Dems, but likely to get picked up on by republicans, who will try to counter or do the opposite. Of course there are more productive ways to exploit the same sort of things, but you get it. The point is that we can win.

[Two Americas]

14. knowing where the battle lines are

We can have different opinions, express our individuality and otherwise be the proverbial unherdable cats, but there is something profound and fundamental that the Republicans have that we do not - they know where the battle lines are, and we cannot reach consensus about that.

The Republicans attack each and every feature of our society, each and every institution and program that helps the average person. They are consistent and predictable in that. We would do well to consistently and strongly defend and promote each and every feature of our society, each and every institution and program that helps the average person.

This isn't about ideology, nor positions on issues, not preferences, nor tactics or strategy. One must know the nature of the fight one is in, if one is to have any hope of success. You can never win a battle when you donlt knopw what the battle is about. The Republicans never lose sight of that.

The Republicans are masters at obscuring their true intents, and we react to what they say rather than to what they do and they beat us every time. "It is the death tax!" - no it isn't. That is a lie. "It is about protecting the family!" No it isn't. That is a lie. "It is about saving Social Security!" No. "It is about (fill in the blank)!" Lies, lies, lies.

The Republican program is always about shifting as much power and wealth into the hands of the few at every turn, whatever it takes, no matter the damage done to the country. It is always about property rights over human rights, profits over people, material goods over human life.

The interests and desires of the wealthy and powerful few are to be protected and advanced at all times and at all costs, and the other 99% of the people are to have everything taken from them.


Teddy knew this:

"It is not to be wondered at that our opponents have been very bitter; for the line-up in this crisis is one that cuts deep to the foundations of government. Our democracy is now put to a vital test; for the conflict is between human rights on the one side and on the other special privilege asserted as a property right. The parting of the ways has come. The Republican party must definitely stand on one side or the other. It must stand, by deeds, and not merely by empty phrases, for the rights of humanity, or else it must stand for special privilege. Our opponents are fond of calling themselves regular Republicans. In reality they have no title to membership in any party that is true to the principles of Abraham Lincoln. They are fighting for the cause of special privilege and their chief strength is drawn from the beneficiaries of intrenched economic and social injustice."

- Theodore Roosevelt

The Case Against the Reactionaries
June 17, 1912
Chicago, Illinois

[lvx35]

17. "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had."

Only good thing Rummy ever said, but he was right. There will be no unification of these cats, so the cat herder must develop tactics to deploy his cats effectively. I believe this is doable, but its going to take real leadership in our party to make it happen. We need to understand ourselves deeply, and look at ways to accomplish our goals without having to change ourselves fundamentally.

So the point is, to reach the goals in your post we can't rely on "everybody getting it". That's the mistake we often make. What we have to do is make people get it, if that's what it takes to make them effective, or make people get whatever it is they need to get to make them effective, and it needs to be done in the most minimalistic way possible, that doesn't require we start being sheep, because that's not what we are.

[Two Americas]

18. diversity

Our diversity could be our strength, rather than letting it be used to divide us. To do that, we need to have a cohesive and coherent theme rather than a disjointed grab bag of positions on a hundred issues - all created by and controlled by the Republicans.

The party, and the unions, and the reformers from the past all successfully did this, and we have their examples to guide us. The Democratic party has had its greatest success when it stood squarely and unapologetically for the have-nots, against entrenched privilege and wealth, and for labor over capital.

[lvx35]

19. You're right, and its a good point.

In nature, diversity prevents epidemics from wiping out whole ecosystems, as well as having other advantages. I wonder if there isn't an allegory there with a winning strategy we could use.

[Two Americas]

20. good one

Hadn't thought of that - "diversity prevents epidemics from wiping out whole ecosystems." Interesting way to think about this.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. You credit them with "resourcefulness and creativity".

Do you not think that this "spying" is a two-way street? My god, I can't give them so much credit. But, maybe that's just me.

[Two Americas]

15. taking candy from a baby

I don't think they are brilliant. They don't need to be. They win by messing up everything we do. They don't need to create anything positive - they just need to tear us down continually. As in baseball, where the "tie goes to the runner" a political stalemate means the win goes to the Republican's benefactors - the wealthy and powerful few. They play for a tie, and we are easy opponents to beat. While we argue with each other about politics, they loot the country. While we try to refute their never ending barrage of nonsensical talking points, they have us distracted and on the defensive and they are free to consolidate power.

[pacalo]

11. This mindset you mentioned has been evident to me since we entered the Twilight Zone.

I think, rather than using the information to "refute" the ideas, they use them for projection: whatever negativity the Democrats observe about them, the 'thugs try to pin it on the Democrats or claim it's their fault. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if the 'thugs actually sat down & endeavored to make a list of all their negative traits & deeds in order to project the negativity onto the Democrats; the 'thugs have no shame & lack the character for accepting any accountability. Character assassination is their only means of defense.

[Elidor]

12. "The talking points had to be plausible as well articulate"

Have you seen any republican campaign commercials lately? I think not.

[Connonym]

13. pretty well known that they DO keep pretty close track of what we say here

that makes them losers as far as I can see. Fuck 'em.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

25. They substitute flag waving for ideas.

They substitute flag-waving for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and ALL the Constitutional amendments. The only Amendment they care about is the Second Amendment. We care about all of them. And the Geneva Conventions we signed onto long ago.



"Fascism will come to America in the guise of patriotism." -- Huey Long

[EFerrari]

16. I don't care any more. Let them get an eye full.

[Quantess]

23. It's already been shown to be true.

I'm over it.
People on DU are aggressively left, and so DU is not representative of Democrats in general. DU is cutthroat liberal, liberal with a knife, where people vent their rage and frustration and share information.

The DU that I have come to know is not self-conscious.

[Lorien]

26. Republicans can't comprehend intelligent, articulate statements

and they certainly can't express them. They look for generalities, then construct opposing sound bites for their reactionary and generally undereducated base.

[Swamp Rat]

27. LOL!